I get liking the Utility Weapon design but dang if i don’t hate it and it has always irked me about Halo. In custom games I’ve always felt maps played better with them as map weapons. But as a spawn weapon they are just too dang good, too easy to use, and until Infinite had no real weakness. I prefer every gun to have a roll and be good really only in that roll so in no way do i want a BR being the best or even in competition at close range. Thats why they let us have 2 weapons and if you chose to pick up the wrong gun or push into a situation you aren’t well equipped for thats just tough luck.
I see why this discussion keeps coming up and I would like to share light on my personal experience.
I just returned to infinite, I played only casual lobbies 4v4 many modes and BTB.
It made me realize AR starts aren’t bad but not good either, this can be said about anything.
What ruins AR starts is I don’t need any other weapon or load out. Just my pistol and AR, kinda ruins the follow and dynamic of all the other weapons.
The problem is having a secondary, seeking out a secondary to give you an upper hand. Makes the biggest difference.
Also with BR starts in ranked, the random weapon/grenade/equipment selection that changes on the maps at random… Only works in Ranked because both teams have a commando to grab near their spawn. Then all the weapons being chosen as a secondary can give you and upper hand or you need to swap weapons because you have to reload.
In casuals, one team can get the upper hand because of the commando and br. They aren’t on the same level has rifles. The commando is more closer to the AR, maybe this would work if it was the DMR but maybe.
Which I wouldn’t mind them bring it back and testing it out but the commando should be randomly rotated with the AR and same with BR and DMR.
BTB is ruined by this random selection because I’ve always consider Multiplayer BTB a way to experience more chaos then a normal 4v4 because of the vehicles. The new map Breaker, bring vehicles back more vehicles off spawn.
Now they just need to make larger maps. Back to what I wanted to state, all these different shock variations ruin vehicle gameplay for me and others.
The shock rifle I was never personally a fan, it’s not bad but dynamo and plasma pistol shocking vehicles were enough.
Plus Beam Rifle was already the opposite of human sniper and the carbine to the BR or DMR.
But having quick spawns on the dynamo and having it spawn more sometimes on maps or easier to grab locations on top of the shock rifle is to much. Now I’m sure there’s people that can go in a deeper spend on the problem behind the random weapons/equipment/Grenades but I end my statement on that with this.
In all in all, AR starts at the moment in Casuals isn’t really fun and I side with the creator of this forum but in different reasons.
AR starts could work, just like BR starts but I think the best step to work towards to find equal ground is removing secondary pistol at the start.
Once again this is my opinion and my opinion alone, I would hope I can get people from both sides to see and understand this. I wish 343 would also see this… Thank you for reading and everyone is entitled to their opinions, except when they are completely mentally wrong lol.
Thanks again.
Hit the nail on the head, Cool Spoon.
Only thing I would say is the damage buff is still there for the base AR in infinite, so his proposed damage buff would make it even more deadly close range. More so than an H3 or H4 AR.
But what’s the point? So it dominates CQB, but has less ranged potential. Meaning it is a more all or nothing positional weapon. How does this improve the sandbox exactly?
What in tarnation are you talking about hoss
I think they are personally balanced well but I do think in casuals would play better with no secondary.
I think having to find a secondary weapons makes you want to seek out other weapons. If you don’t have one it’s not the end of the world.
What’s the real problem is this random weapon and Grenade selection with it being different every game. In BTB and Casuals. In ranked that system works because you have BR starts and two commandos on both sides but 4v4 casuals you have one side have BR and other have commando. Which they aren’t the same, commando is a one up on the AR but it isn’t the DMR and it’s not the BR.
BTB the Random selection is more of a shock weapon problem. Get stunned by five different shock rifles on the map or 5 dynamo Grenade a being thrown at you at once. Driving a vehicle sucks if they had more control over there weapon&grenade selection it wouldn’t be that pig of a problem.
Just don’t need that many shock style weapons together. (Like I said this is more in regards of BTB).
I would also love your opinion and thought on this as I liked your reason and understood your post.
Specifically i would like either 1) recoil or 2) bloom when hip firing. Its still so dang good in ranked i hardly ever find a need for a map weapon outside of the rocket. But most of that is due to spawning with the gun. Again i started a whole long thread going over this and why its almost impossible if not impossibleto spawn with a gun with as few downsides as the BR in an Arena Shooter and expect people to want to use other guns often:
“Its basically impossible to balance a game around the BR (and the DMR)”
“https://forums.halowaypoint.com/t/its-basically-impossible-to-balance-a-game-around-the-br-and-the-dmr/537918”
We will never ever agree on adding recoil or bloom to the BR lol. I already think both are way too high on the Commando
I would agree the commando probably has a bit too much, im not saying a ton of recoil, maybe just back to H3 recoil, maybe a bit more.
One thing to think about, the commando would acrually be a good weapon in the BR wasn’t in the game. If you know how to burst your shots it can smoke people at range. I wouldn’t be against commando starts. It actually has a wide skill gap.
well there you go, that’s the compromise
I want something that’s fun to use and works at all ranges so I don’t have to watch my teammates die over and over outside of Sidekick range, and you guys want something you can hold the trigger down for when it comes time
Let’s all sign a petition or something
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This is a hilarious post
See you all in 2 weeks when the next “AR bad, BR good” or vice versa post is created.
Lmao. I ranked diamond day one when ranked opened up. I still highly outperformed everyone in the lobby in my ranking games. You’re just wrong.
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The magnum has permeant half a degree of spread, way too much
Also wrong, neither the carbine or BR have recoil and the Carbine has more min and max spread.
As for damage per shot the carbine is 10 and the BR is 6, but taking into account the BR being a burst then it’s 18 per burst.
Which matters less as distance from the target decreases.
The BR has a slight degree of vertical “kick.” Recoil was the wrong word to use here. The Carbine doesn’t have that slight vertical kick. Did you watch the video?
Again. Did you watch the video? The BR has a slight amount of vertical kick that makes headshots at range harder to accomplish. The Carbine has slight spread, but it lacks the kick, making it easier to keep shots on target.
The Battle Rifle also has random spread on 2/3 shots from the burst. As distance from the target increases, the spread becomes more noticeable, and less damage is done, especially for headshots.
Again. The video I mentioned disproves this. The Carbine kills in 2.43s, or 12 shots on body shots. The Battle Rifle kills in 2.85s at 20 bullets and 7 bursts.
This is also a problem at range. The Battle Rifle’s only shot that goes straight down the reticle is the first, meaning that extremely long ranges have an unreliable damage output. This is complicated further by the vertical kick that the Battle Rifle suffers from, making headshots at longer ranges difficult. You should instead aim for center mass and headshot only when confident you can make that shot.
The Battle Rifle is easier to use against moving targets and requires less lead. At closer ranges, as well as against non-moving targets or when you have to body-shot for a kill, the Carbine is superior. Both have different use cases. That’s a balance.
Did you ever get past Diamond?
Here’s something a lot of people don’t realize. It’s pinpoint accurate, the recoil is just visual, and represents the way the bullets are being fired. It’s a perfect 123 upward shot pattern with no variation or randomness thrown in, so aiming center mass at all times is all you have to do to land the shots. Aim a tad lower the further you are away and you’re set
But limits it’s use at all ranges, and removes skill from the equation.
Screenshake is not recoil or kick, it’s simply camera movement that has zero impact on crosshair placement.
Neither of the weapons have a mechanic that changes crosshair placement. The BR has spread at all stages in the burst, from very very low to half a degree at final.
The official mod tools approve this.
zero vertical kick, all spread.
Both weapons have the same speed projectile. The Carbine is a direct downgrade.
we are talking about H3
20 character bananasplit
Oooooh well yeah the shot pattern is in a “cone of randomness” in 3, on top of being a slow projectile. I guess their idea of balancing it was creating a lot of RNG
Because it’s a handgun. And it’s designed to be used at closer ranges. The skill in the equation is whether you use a shield -Yoink!- + grenades to remove shields first and then use the Pistol at ranges where it can work, to get the kill.
My guy, that is literally not what I’m talking about. Did you watch the video? Because the video very clearly shows the Battle Rifle’s crosshair moving when firing.
Again. Watch the video
And there is gameplay evidence on YouTube that you clearly have not watched that disproves this.
I’m going to sound like a broken record, but again, the video disproves this. It shows the vertical kick I’m talking about.
We’re not talking about projectile speed. We’re talking about Bullet Magnetism. The Bullet Magnetism on the BR seems to be stronger than that of the Carbine, and on top of that, it fires three shots instead of the Carbine’s one. It stands to reason that one or two of the three shots when the reticle turns red on the enemy will cause Magnetism to kick in.
It’s because the BR was a laser beam in Halo 2, and it wasn’t particularly fun to be on the receiving end of it at longer ranges when you didn’t have one. Kind of like when Halo CE had the Pistol that was also a laser beam and it turned the game into a Pistol spam fest. At least, that’s my design philosophy behind it. It also makes sense in a sandbox where two Snipers exist - the Sniper is for long range, the BR/Carbine is for mid-range and the Assault Rifle/SMG/Pistol are for close-range.