Why Do People Say AR Starts is About Weapon Variety?

Games Halo Infinite
23

I don’t think AR starts are inherently bad, but I do think there is a merit to starting with an AR:

  1. It’s very easy to use, so all players at all levels have a chance to perform with it. A newbie will wiff a BR start entirely.

  2. Weapon balance in Halo right now is pretty darn bad. If anything isn’t a situational upgrade, it’s left on a rack. Example being a map like Behemoth and something like the Ravager.

You would never wanna pick that up cos of all the open spaces working against it. As a result, if you had a BR, are bad with it, and have to pick up another weapon which is situationally bad like the Ravager, god how you wish you had an AR right now instead.

My opinion?
Commando/BR and AR starts. And we can cease this discussion.

2 Likes
24

That’s a good point, it’s the perfect range to be literally useless in most fights while you helplessly watch your teammates die.

It’s a great close range weapon. It’s a BB gun outside of that because of how slow the ttk becomes when you fire it in short bursts to get the best accuracy it’s capable of. What most people do in the latter situation is chuck grenades instead and rush in to clean up after their teammates die.

That’s such a shame because the Ravager is now one of the best overall weapons in the game. It has unlimited range, and high damage per shot. It’s basically an easier to use and more effective Cindershot now

25

Commando, BR, needler, (though, maybe less so) and formerly the mangler.

1 Like
26

Mangler kind of always got used for both the easy melee kills and the two shot shield drop combo, but the needler has always been in a weird place in the sandbox. On a great connection (like LAN), it’s pretty OP. On the servers we have in matchmaking the needler is nearly useless most games.

The campaign needler, however, is like a portable war crime and I love it.

27

I feel that most of the Infinite Sandbox is good, if anything a bunch of guns need buffs which is better than what previous sandboxes offer.

That said, I firmly believe how people use the sidekick and how the commando is supposed to be used needs to swap.

You have a high rate of fire, decent damage pistol that barely has any spread, as well as good range, making it a good weapon even in an unskilled user’s hands.
Meanwhile the commando can go full auto, similar if not less damage, with very inconsistent spread even when timing shots, with about the same range, making it useful to skilled players, but even then the inconsistency is left up to RNG which shots land and which don’t. And this is meant to fill a similar slot to the BR.

Its like 343 mixed up how the commando and sidekick should work. I should feel like from the sidekick I have two upgrades, a BR or a Commando, each depends on playstyle.
The BR should be decent at midrange, good at long range, but still usable with skill at close range (and it is)
The commando should be the opposite. good at close (full auto), decent at midrange, usable with skill at long range. But how it is now it is decent at close, usable with skill at range, useless at long range despite skill.
The sidekick should be usable with skill at close, good at midrange, usable with skill at long range. Instead it is good at close, good at midrange, usable with skill at long range. How is that an upgrade from the commando?

Well maybe the commando is more of an upgrade to the AR? Well, with how the AR plays now, it is Good at close range, usable with skill at midrange (fire in bursts) unusable at long range. So essentially where the AR lacks, the Sidekick picks up the slack and vice versa. The BR is an upgrade from those two and the commando is supposed to fill the same weapon slot for different playstyles, but with how it is right now, it is a downgrade from the AR and BR starts.

And I’m saying this as someone who likes the Commando, and I rocked with it during the flights, but considering how almost no one uses it and how often it gets outclassed that it isn’t doing the job intended. Some people want BR starts in BTB because the AR and sidekick isn’t good enough at those ranges, but if they fixed the commando then the BR can still be the non-sniper long-range king in BTB without turning BTB into a point-and-click match like BR start Sandtrap back in Halo 3.

2 Likes
28

Uhhhhhhhhh… No, it’s very much not good. The biggest issue is that the Battle Rifle, Assault Rifle, and Sidekick are too good in all-round roles, to the point that anything that is overly situational does not get use. The Ravager is useless on most maps, and isn’t that good in general, for example. The AR does what the Pulse Carbine does with fewer steps, as another example.

Outside of Power Weapons, there is almost never a case where you want to drop your starting weapons. Maybe for a Shock Rifle or Stalker Rifle, but never for well over half of the weapons in the sandbox.

29

I like how people cherry pick one video and are like see my opinion or preference is right because of this one video or example… Just because there is one video that shows players playing a certain way doesn’t mean that is how all or even the majority play. I have noticed over years of playing that when starting with ARs players do move around the maps more and tend to use more weapons. Now just because I do like AR starts doesn’t mean I want to have that all the time. I do like BR starts as well. That is why I prefer playing MCC… I can pick between precision and auto starts. Also with auto starts I wish and have even asked that there be NO precision weapons on the map at all. Games are less sweaty and more casual with nothing but autos. Not every game has to be some sweat filled competitive play. Halo should have variety of play that players can choose and be able to progress in xp/battle pass… We can do that in MCC better than in Infinite by a long shot. One thing I have noticed is that some seem to think high level play should dictate the entire game… That is one reason why infinite is dropping in popularity so fast. There needs to be game play for all levels available at all times and not just “pro level” play. Infinite would probably be doing way better population wise if it had a composer where players could pick what type of weapon starts they wanted or if they wanted Slayer or objective games, of course social games only.

1 Like
30

I promise you guys the gun is beastly now, it’s almost OP. They doubled the amount of damage per shot it does so you can two shot people with direct hits now. That plus the melee bonus plus the amount of damage it does to vehicles PLUS it’s charge attack’s versatility make it an extremely useful weapon. It’s not even niche at this point, it’s multi-purpose.

I mean…out of desperation in most cases. And the moving around part is not always true. Most of the time people camp more. They sit back and camp with long range weapons, or they crouch around corners with close range weapons.

The people that DO move around a lot are getting dry roasted by the other two types of people, because they’re probably just running around like lemmings dying over and over with just their AR.

You’re right, so why not give the majority of people that actually want BR starts access to BR starts so we can have fun too? Why is it that a minority opinion controls the entire game?

Why not at least try BR or Commando starts in BTB instead of just abusing the faults of AR starts to pad kd ratios? Because that’s all it really comes down to…killing AR kids easy to feel that dopamine response because you happened to pick up the only BR on your side of the map.

31

I don’t think you comprehended what I said… I said there should be a choice for players to start with the weapons they want… I am not advocating for either weapon starts. The choice should be there… Also why try to insult players who happen to like AR starts? Both starts have advantages and disadvantages that will depend on the players playing. There really is no need to try and talk down to players who happen to like ARs or using auto weapons. Not every one playing is trying to be some pro gamer. There are some who want just a fun casual experience and you get that with autos more so that BRs.

32

Are you talking about loadouts?

33

You didn’t read that I said a bunch of guns need buffs. And that is better than previous sandboxes. none of the guns are entirely useless.
If you have problems with the Ravager even after its buff, that’s a skill issue.
Mangler needs to have its melee back. For anyone saying it doesn’t work at range. Again, skill issue. Same with the Skewer. You have to learn to arc your shots. For some reason alot of Halo players don’t understand leading your shots and compensating for arcs.
Pulse Carbine can be better than almost every standard gun, but it has a narrow goldilocks zone of use.
Disruptor needs its damage over time effect to be more powerful. As it currently is though, not ideal, but useable.
Plasma Pistol is actually useless though. Even the Noob combo doesn’t seem to have tracking anymore.
Shock Rifle is fine.
Stalker Rifle has another identity issue where it is plasma, but does better on health than shields. But as it is, it is okay.
Bulldog is fine (although projectiles seem to land too far left of reticle in my experience)
Needler is fine.
Heat Wave needs skill to land hits, so fine.
Sentinel beam melts vehicles and close range players, so fine again.
Energy sword is fine, though suffers from the same melee problem as the rest of the game.

Grenades, rockets, hydra, gravity hammer, and cindershot have inconsistent explosions, so I’m going to call that a game issue, not a weapon issue.

This is better than Halo 3 where
the magnum is useless,
the SMG is just a worse shotgun,
The spiker and Plasma rifles are just worse ARs
and the AR isn’t even that good to begin with,
carbine is, again, a worse BR,
the plasma pistol is only useful for vehicles,
and the needler doesn’t have enough ammo to deal with more than one target attacking at once.
And the bruteshot doesn’t do alot of damage, but it knocks players around. Good for knocking over vehicles though.
Halo Reach is slightly better, except with more weapon redundancy. Halo 3 and Reach don’t just suffer from most of the sandbox being poor choices, its that the good choices are so good, that every weapon of a similar type is useless in comparison. Halo 4 was a little better, but loadouts ensured redundancy even harder, even if more guns were usable. Halo 5 is just a beast on its own. It has more than just gun balance when comparing to the rest of the series.

Meanwhile in Infinite, aside from the plasma pistol, none of the guns are completely useless. Not where they should be, but they are usable even if you and I might not be good at one particular gun. Each one suits different playstyles. And the buffs I want for those guns would make their uses stand out more. The fact that the halo weapon balance discussion has turned from “BR/DMR is too op” into “The AR, Sidekick, and BR are too useful” shows that the sandbox is on its way to being balanced. It isn’t 100% there yet, but this is better than what we had before. 343 just needs to tweak. Hopefully that comes in the august drop pod.

34

No, a match composer like MCC has for social game modes. Players should be able to pick between Precision or Auto starts and pick between Slayer or objective games. The match composer is one of the things that makes MCC superior to Infinite.

How multiplayer should be set up

Ranked, there should be a HCS playlist for all the “pro” settings. Then have regular ranked playlist with all the weapons and what not.
Social: have a match composer so players can pick between precision or auto starts, pick between Slayer or objective games types, there would be a game mode of nothing but autos (no precision weapons at all) and of course all the regular game types to select from.

To me that would cater to every type of player really. If you want sweat fest competition play ranked HCS, regular ol competitive play just ranked… Want casual games social auto starts… Super casual game nothing but autos on the map. That would make an almost perfect multiplayer experience.

1 Like
35

You’re right, there should be a system more like MCC where you can select more search options for sure.

I don’t understand quite what makes AR starts “casual” though. A lot of people say that but what’s casual about it? If anything it’s even MORE sweaty because the skill gap is wider. Good players will OBLITERATE less skilled players simply by picking up the right weapons and playing smarter.

3 Likes
36

If a BR even spawns. Most the time you get something much worse than the AR, the commando.

37

That can be said for any game mode, higher skilled players will dominate lesser skilled players… From my experience AR starts gives players more of a chance to move around the map and play. When every one has a BR or precision weapons as soon as to spawn you are usually in a fight right away. That is also why I would like to see an auto Slayer that is nothing but automatic weapons on the map. But we supposedly have the most powerful consoles ever but yet Halo Infinite has less features than older games and even consoles. By now players should be able to select the types of games they want… Infinite seems to be we are going to tell you what and how to play, and no one likes that. Now players are trying to say it needs to be one way or the other when realistically we should have the ability to play what we want.

38

EXACTLY, it’s fun. You’re not spending half the match running to find a fight and watching your teammates die, you can just constantly be in the action.

Infinite is so BORING most of the time because the majority of games are spent looking for a fight within range of your close quarters starting weapon combo.

How is that fun?

39

Well this may surprise you but different players have different preferences for what type of game they like to play. That is why there should be more choices that players can make for their matchmaking experience. It by no means should be one way or the other, or only cater to one style of play. We have better match making choices in MCC… Infinite really needs the same thing. Let the players decide what type of game they want by offering a good variety of game types.

40

May I ask what about AR starts is more fun than BR starts?

41

It is a whole different style of play. For the most part more close quarters and i do believe map weapons are used more often which i find fun. Vehicles seem to be a bit stronger too due to it being harder to snipe someone out of a warthog with an AR than it is with a BR. That said the dynamo grenades are OP as heck but thats a topic for another day.

In short i just prefer how the AR spawns play and would definitely love separate BR and AR start playlists for both ranked and social. Thats assuming Infinite can win players back.

42

What is fun is based on each individual player opinion. Players have their opinion on what is fun to them in general. I like AR starts because based on my experience players tend to navigate the maps more and more weapons are used and are viable since not every one has a BR. The BR is such a dominant weapon most seem to ignore most of the weapons on the map. There are challenges and advantages/disadvantages to both game types really.

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