Why do people hate Halo 4's multiplayer?

Games Other Halo
1

Whenever I see someone talk about it, all I hear is " Halo 4 = CoD clone" or “Oh, it’s a rip-off of CoD.” Does anyone know why people hate it so much? As someone who’s played all the FPS Halo games and some CoD games, I can assure that it’s fine for Halo to have elements that are in almost every popular triple-A game out there, as long as it’s not broken (which is the case with Halo 4.) Besides, the MP isn’t that bad, it’s just a lot of people aren’t willing to accept it. As much as I enjoy playing games like Halo 3, Reach, and 5, I personally found Halo 4 to have a slightly better MP than 3 and 5 and equally good as Reach because

  1. In Halo Reach MP, you’re given 5 loadouts, each with different armor abilities, that you can’t personalize. But H4 expands on that, and now you can pick whatever weapon, ability, and grenade you want for each of your loadouts, thus giving you more diversification and the ability to personalized your loadouts
  2. Speaking of diversification, that’s what loadouts are made for. I’ve heard people say that they kill equal starts, and I agree. But not everyone has to pick different loadouts.
  3. You can sprint for as long as you want, which lets you get somewhere quicker without being timed
  4. Halo’s main 2 competitors at the time (CoD and Battlefield) had sprint when Halo 4 was being developed, so it’d make sense to bring in an element that your competitiors have.

I don’t really know why fans want to be stuck in the past and go back to the classic mechanics for Halo Infinite because although it was fine in 2007, it wouldn’t work in 2020. It’s okay to have opinions, but have good reasons as to why. IMO If Halo never added any new mechanics like sprint in either 4 or 5, then Halo would be more dead than it already is, because a game without a mechanic as often used as sprint and no diversification wouldn’t attract new players

I didn’t write this essay to say that Infinite needs loadouts nor am I trying to hate on the original trilogy (which are actually some of my favorite games ever,) but to express my opinion and see if I can have an open discussion about the subject.

2

. Sprint as a permanent ability led to enormous design limitations with maps (on a side note, the maps are larger, so you aren’t getting anywhere faster)
. Customizable weapon loadouts removed even starts which hurt balance (even if two of the ten people in the game picked the DMR)
. Perks made individual player skill less important
. You could spend money on snack food to earn weapons, perks, etc. faster than other players
. Killstreaks hurt map control and removed the need to earn those power weapons etc. by fighting over them
. Weapons, vehicles, etc. were pointed out to the player at all times which caused screen clutter and removed the need to memorize the map
. Etc.

Halo used to appeal to both casual and competitive play, but Halo 4 abandoned competitive play entirely. The game’s population plummeted the fastest in the series, so it’s clear that even the people just playing it for fun didn’t care too much for it, so it didn’t even have that for most people. Halo 4 abandoned Halo’s identity for the sake of chasing market trends, but why buy a game that plays like Call of Duty when you could just buy Call of Duty? Different franchises should offer different experiences as, if it’s just Call of Duty with Halo weapons and vehicles, what reason does it have to exist?

If you want to parrot the tired “you’re just stuck in the past” argument then you need to explain why it’s only the minority of people who love the current direction of the franchise. Finally, I’d like to ask you a question: why did DOOM (2016) do so well critically and financially while Halo 5: Guardians did not?

3

> 2535425271455392;2:
> . Sprint as a permanent ability led to enormous design limitations with maps (on a side note, the maps are larger, so you aren’t getting anywhere faster)
> . Customizable weapon loadouts removed even starts which hurt balance (even if two of the ten people in the game picked the DMR)
> . Perks made individual player skill less important
> . You could spend money on snack food to earn weapons, perks, etc. faster than other players
> . Killstreaks hurt map control and removed the need to earn those power weapons etc. by fighting over them
> . Weapons, vehicles, etc. were pointed out to the player at all times which caused screen clutter and removed the need to memorize the map
> . Etc.
>
> Halo used to appeal to both casual and competitive play, but Halo 4 abandoned competitive play entirely. The game’s population plummeted the fastest in the series, so it’s clear that even the people just playing it for fun didn’t care too much for it, so it didn’t even have that for most people. Halo 4 abandoned Halo’s identity for the sake of chasing market trends, but why buy a game that plays like Call of Duty when you could just buy Call of Duty? Different franchises should offer different experiences as, if it’s just Call of Duty with Halo weapons and vehicles, what reason does it have to exist?
>
> If you want to parrot the tired “you’re just stuck in the past” argument then you need to explain why it’s only the minority of people who love the current direction of the franchise. Finally, I’d like to ask you a question: why did DOOM (2016) do so well critically and financially while Halo 5: Guardians did not?

If I wanted a game that played like CoD, I’d buy an FPS game, CoD or not, as long as it’s not terrible. The identity of Halo dosn’t matter as much as it as more and more competition came in over the years, and a lot of the competitors include sprint, so why shouldn’t Halo have it? It’s important to keep the identity of a game, but you should also bring in new elements to make the game more fun.

About DOOM, The pace of just walking is extremely fast, so it’s technically somewhat advanced movement already. Plus, Halo 5 was trash, so of course DOOM does better than Halo 5

4

> 2533275016441431;3:
> > 2535425271455392;2:
> > . Sprint as a permanent ability led to enormous design limitations with maps (on a side note, the maps are larger, so you aren’t getting anywhere faster)
> > . Customizable weapon loadouts removed even starts which hurt balance (even if two of the ten people in the game picked the DMR)
> > . Perks made individual player skill less important
> > . You could spend money on snack food to earn weapons, perks, etc. faster than other players
> > . Killstreaks hurt map control and removed the need to earn those power weapons etc. by fighting over them
> > . Weapons, vehicles, etc. were pointed out to the player at all times which caused screen clutter and removed the need to memorize the map
> > . Etc.
> >
> > Halo used to appeal to both casual and competitive play, but Halo 4 abandoned competitive play entirely. The game’s population plummeted the fastest in the series, so it’s clear that even the people just playing it for fun didn’t care too much for it, so it didn’t even have that for most people. Halo 4 abandoned Halo’s identity for the sake of chasing market trends, but why buy a game that plays like Call of Duty when you could just buy Call of Duty? Different franchises should offer different experiences as, if it’s just Call of Duty with Halo weapons and vehicles, what reason does it have to exist?
> >
> > If you want to parrot the tired “you’re just stuck in the past” argument then you need to explain why it’s only the minority of people who love the current direction of the franchise. Finally, I’d like to ask you a question: why did DOOM (2016) do so well critically and financially while Halo 5: Guardians did not?
>
> If I wanted a game that played like CoD, I’d buy an FPS game, CoD or not, as long as it’s not terrible. The identity of Halo dosn’t matter as much as it as more and more competition came in over the years, and a lot of the competitors include sprint, so why shouldn’t Halo have it? It’s important to keep the identity of a game, but you should also bring in new elements to make the game more fun.
>
> About DOOM, The pace of just walking is extremely fast, so it’s technically somewhat advanced movement already. Plus, Halo 5 was trash, so of course DOOM does better than Halo 5

But why was Halo 5: Guardians trash? It had sprint, ADS, clamber, and everything else that its competition had. That should make it more fun… right?

5

I think what you’re not looking at is how every Halo that came before Halo 4 brought something new to FPS games that no one else did. So, Halo was the trendsetter, not a follower of trends. The exception might be Reach’s MP, so we can exclude that for this argument. Starting with CE, you got the perfect FPS for a console, something that hadn’t been done before. Halo 2 brought with it Xbox Live and made it extremely easy to simply press a button and join an online match. Halo 3 gave us Forge and perfected everything else the prior 2 titles had done. I personally enjoyed BTB in Halo 4, but that’s about it. Every other mode was far inferior compared to the same modes in prior titles.

To reiterate what has been said above, people did not like how Halo 4 copied from other titles which is why the population plummeted. No matter how you look at it, Halo 4’s MP was a reskin of COD but with shields. Many of the developers who worked on H4 were past employees of studios who developed COD so naturally that showed in the final product. Lastly, many new employees were hired specifically because they “hated Halo.” The idea was to change it into something else to appeal to a wider audience. Clearly that backfired since hardcore fans were put off by it and the COD crowd stuck to COD. Compare that to Bungie’s games where they made games they wanted and they found fun. That’s why they were commercial hits and why Halo became a juggernaut.

6

> 2533274824050480;5:
> I think what you’re not looking at is how every Halo that came before Halo 4 brought something new to FPS games that no one else did. So, Halo was the trendsetter, not a follower of trends. The exception might be Reach’s MP, so we can exclude that for this argument. Starting with CE, you got the perfect FPS for a console, something that hadn’t been done before. Halo 2 brought with it Xbox Live and made it extremely easy to simply press a button and join an online match. Halo 3 gave us Forge and perfected everything else the prior 2 titles had done. I personally enjoyed BTB in Halo 4, but that’s about it. Every other mode was far inferior compared to the same modes in prior titles.
>
> To reiterate what has been said above, people did not like how Halo 4 copied from other titles which is why the population plummeted. No matter how you look at it, Halo 4’s MP was a reskin of COD but with shields. Many of the developers who worked on H4 were past employees of studios who developed COD so naturally that showed in the final product. Lastly, many new employees were hired specifically because they “hated Halo.” The idea was to change it into something else to appeal to a wider audience. Clearly that backfired since hardcore fans were put off by it and the COD crowd stuck to COD. Compare that to Bungie’s games where they made games they wanted and they found fun. That’s why they were commercial hits and why Halo became a juggernaut.

I don’t see what’s wrong with bringing in a mechanic like sprint that is in almost all the triple-A games. If someone who enjoyed CoD or Battlefield was introduced to let’s say Halo 2 and played it, then they probably would think that the gameplay is boring without a mechanic as simple as sprint. It’s still Halo, just with elements from other games. My first Halo (and first game, in fact,) was CE, and although I first played the original trilogy and always rated their stories higher than the other games, I always preferred the gameplay from Reach, 4, and to a certain extent, 5.

“The exception might be Reach’s MP” It brought in Armor Abilities, which brought something new to the table in terms of combat and movement. And in 4, you could customize what abilites you want. CoD doesn’t have something like Armor Abilities, so what makes Halo 4 a “CoD clone” if it copied off something from Reach that CoD doesn’t have? And things like perks and killstreaks don’t matter because although they’re associated with CoD, that doesn’t mean that they can only be in CoD and nowhere else. If these features were owned by Activision, then they would be sueing 343i and Microsoft for copying something that belongs to them. If Halo 4 appealed to no one, then how did the divide between old and new fans become bigger and bigger since 2012?

IMO the reason why Halo isn’t doing so well is because people who hate the fact that FPS games are changing won’t accept change for the better. Ever since CoD 4, Halo has had competition from games like later CoD games, Battlefield, Apex Legends, Fortnite, PUBG, and several other popular games, all of which have at least somewhat advanced movement. If Halo wants to be popular, they should take some inspiration from popular games and trends and make it feel like the Halo version of if. Because if Halo goes back to the 2007 way, then it’ll only appeal to older fans, no newcomers will come, and the sales will suffer more than Halo 5.

Of course you can have your own opinion, but like you, I have my own as well, and these are my thoughts on the subject

> 2535425271455392;4:
> > 2533275016441431;3:
> >
>
> But why was Halo 5: Guardians trash? It had sprint, ADS, clamber, and everything else that its competition had. That should make it more fun… right?

Yes, but people weren’t willing to accept the new features and adapt. That, plus the story being trash, made the game sell poorly.

7

> 2533275016441431;6:
> > 2533274824050480;5:
> > I think what you’re not looking at is how every Halo that came before Halo 4 brought something new to FPS games that no one else did. So, Halo was the trendsetter, not a follower of trends. The exception might be Reach’s MP, so we can exclude that for this argument. Starting with CE, you got the perfect FPS for a console, something that hadn’t been done before. Halo 2 brought with it Xbox Live and made it extremely easy to simply press a button and join an online match. Halo 3 gave us Forge and perfected everything else the prior 2 titles had done. I personally enjoyed BTB in Halo 4, but that’s about it. Every other mode was far inferior compared to the same modes in prior titles.
> >
> > To reiterate what has been said above, people did not like how Halo 4 copied from other titles which is why the population plummeted. No matter how you look at it, Halo 4’s MP was a reskin of COD but with shields. Many of the developers who worked on H4 were past employees of studios who developed COD so naturally that showed in the final product. Lastly, many new employees were hired specifically because they “hated Halo.” The idea was to change it into something else to appeal to a wider audience. Clearly that backfired since hardcore fans were put off by it and the COD crowd stuck to COD. Compare that to Bungie’s games where they made games they wanted and they found fun. That’s why they were commercial hits and why Halo became a juggernaut.
>
> I don’t see what’s wrong with bringing in a mechanic like sprint that is in almost all the triple-A games. If someone who enjoyed CoD or Battlefield was introduced to let’s say Halo 2 and played it, then they probably would think that the gameplay is boring without a mechanic as simple as sprint. It’s still Halo, just with elements from other games. My first Halo (and first game, in fact,) was CE, and although I first played the original trilogy and always rated their stories higher than the other games, I always preferred the gameplay from Reach, 4, and to a certain extent, 5.
>
> “The exception might be Reach’s MP” It brought in Armor Abilities, which brought something new to the table in terms of combat and movement. And in 4, you could customize what abilites you want. CoD doesn’t have something like Armor Abilities, so what makes Halo 4 a “CoD clone” if it copied off something from Reach that CoD doesn’t have? And things like perks and killstreaks don’t matter because although they’re associated with CoD, that doesn’t mean that they can only be in CoD and nowhere else. If these features were owned by Activision, then they would be sueing 343i and Microsoft for copying something that belongs to them. If Halo 4 appealed to no one, then how did the divide between old and new fans become bigger and bigger since 2012?
>
> IMO the reason why Halo isn’t doing so well is because people who hate the fact that FPS games are changing won’t accept change for the better. Ever since CoD 4, Halo has had competition from games like later CoD games, Battlefield, Apex Legends, Fortnite, PUBG, and several other popular games, all of which have at least somewhat advanced movement. If Halo wants to be popular, they should take some inspiration from popular games and trends and make it feel like the Halo version of if. Because if Halo goes back to the 2007 way, then it’ll only appeal to older fans, no newcomers will come, and the sales will suffer more than Halo 5.
>
> Of course you can have your own opinion, but like you, I have my own as well, and these are my thoughts on the subject
>
>
> > 2535425271455392;4:
> > > 2533275016441431;3:
> > >
> >
> > But why was Halo 5: Guardians trash? It had sprint, ADS, clamber, and everything else that its competition had. That should make it more fun… right?
>
> Yes, but people weren’t willing to accept the new features and adapt. That, plus the story being trash, made the game sell poorly.

Again, I’ll repeat what I wrote that you clearly looked over. I never said you are not allowed to like H4. Halo fans like Halo, not CoD. Imagine throwing shields and aliens into CoD. CoD fans aren’t going to like that, are they? And neither would I because that would ruin CoD for me also. And yes, I do like CoD. Halo did its own thing and did it well, just like CoD and Battlefield appeal to their own audience.

Again, you can like and play what you want, that’s why things like the match composer in MCC exist and why there are still people who play Halo 4 even on the 360. I’ll also reiterate that I enjoyed Halo 4’s BTB. I think it is definitely 1st or 2nd on the list of games with the best BTB, miles better than H5’s casino-based Warzone. But take the time to understand why something you might love is not necessarily what most fans of a franchise want instead of repeatedly saying the same things and ignoring what others are trying to explain. After all, you posed the question by making the topic.

The point is that Halo stuck to that independent mentality and beat out other competitors at the time. Either that or it thrived in itself. It’s not like there were no competitors at the time of Halo 3, for example. CoD4 was incredibly successful and is still a great game to this day. Halo 3 and CoD4 both managed to break records without doing anything that the other did.

As a fan since the CE days, I’m definitely not looking for another game with “advanced movement.” I’m not the only one since MCC is extremely successful and even managed to be more popular than H5 after its big update last year. And before you mention that Halo 4 is a large reason for that, consider that 343i had to release the match composer because no one could play other games because everyone kept voting for H3. As much as I love H3, I personally think H2A is Halo MP perfection, so I was happy to see that feature added.

8

> 2533275016441431;6:
> > 2533274824050480;5:
> > I think what you’re not looking at is how every Halo that came before Halo 4 brought something new to FPS games that no one else did. So, Halo was the trendsetter, not a follower of trends. The exception might be Reach’s MP, so we can exclude that for this argument. Starting with CE, you got the perfect FPS for a console, something that hadn’t been done before. Halo 2 brought with it Xbox Live and made it extremely easy to simply press a button and join an online match. Halo 3 gave us Forge and perfected everything else the prior 2 titles had done. I personally enjoyed BTB in Halo 4, but that’s about it. Every other mode was far inferior compared to the same modes in prior titles.
> >
> > To reiterate what has been said above, people did not like how Halo 4 copied from other titles which is why the population plummeted. No matter how you look at it, Halo 4’s MP was a reskin of COD but with shields. Many of the developers who worked on H4 were past employees of studios who developed COD so naturally that showed in the final product. Lastly, many new employees were hired specifically because they “hated Halo.” The idea was to change it into something else to appeal to a wider audience. Clearly that backfired since hardcore fans were put off by it and the COD crowd stuck to COD. Compare that to Bungie’s games where they made games they wanted and they found fun. That’s why they were commercial hits and why Halo became a juggernaut.
>
> I don’t see what’s wrong with bringing in a mechanic like sprint that is in almost all the triple-A games. If someone who enjoyed CoD or Battlefield was introduced to let’s say Halo 2 and played it, then they probably would think that the gameplay is boring without a mechanic as simple as sprint. It’s still Halo, just with elements from other games. My first Halo (and first game, in fact,) was CE, and although I first played the original trilogy and always rated their stories higher than the other games, I always preferred the gameplay from Reach, 4, and to a certain extent, 5.
>
> “The exception might be Reach’s MP” It brought in Armor Abilities, which brought something new to the table in terms of combat and movement. And in 4, you could customize what abilites you want. CoD doesn’t have something like Armor Abilities, so what makes Halo 4 a “CoD clone” if it copied off something from Reach that CoD doesn’t have? And things like perks and killstreaks don’t matter because although they’re associated with CoD, that doesn’t mean that they can only be in CoD and nowhere else. If these features were owned by Activision, then they would be sueing 343i and Microsoft for copying something that belongs to them. If Halo 4 appealed to no one, then how did the divide between old and new fans become bigger and bigger since 2012?
>
> IMO the reason why Halo isn’t doing so well is because people who hate the fact that FPS games are changing won’t accept change for the better. Ever since CoD 4, Halo has had competition from games like later CoD games, Battlefield, Apex Legends, Fortnite, PUBG, and several other popular games, all of which have at least somewhat advanced movement. If Halo wants to be popular, they should take some inspiration from popular games and trends and make it feel like the Halo version of if. Because if Halo goes back to the 2007 way, then it’ll only appeal to older fans, no newcomers will come, and the sales will suffer more than Halo 5.
>
> Of course you can have your own opinion, but like you, I have my own as well, and these are my thoughts on the subject
>
>
> > 2535425271455392;4:
> > > 2533275016441431;3:
> > >
> >
> > But why was Halo 5: Guardians trash? It had sprint, ADS, clamber, and everything else that its competition had. That should make it more fun… right?
>
> Yes, but people weren’t willing to accept the new features and adapt. That, plus the story being trash, made the game sell poorly.

Why should they be obligated to accept features that drastically change something they enjoy? If those features change the experience to the point where it no longer offers what made them enjoy it, why should they have to adapt? Because brand loyalty?

9

> 2535425271455392;8:
> > 2533275016441431;6:
> >
>
> Why should they be obligated to accept features that drastically change something they enjoy? If those features change the experience to the point where it no longer offers what made them enjoy it, why should they have to adapt? Because brand loyalty?

They had Reach and 4 to get used to the new style. That’s 5 years of gaming and by 2015, they should’ve been willing to accept the new style, and now that it’s been 9 years, they should’ve been able to now, right? Well, apparently not.

> 2533274824050480;7:
> > 2533275016441431;6:
> >
>
> Again, I’ll repeat what I wrote that you clearly looked over. I never said you are not allowed to like H4. Halo fans like Halo, not CoD. Imagine throwing shields and aliens into CoD. CoD fans aren’t going to like that, are they? And neither would I because that would ruin CoD for me also. And yes, I do like CoD. Halo did its own thing and did it well, just like CoD and Battlefield appeal to their own audience.
>
> Again, you can like and play what you want, that’s why things like the match composer in MCC exist and why there are still people who play Halo 4 even on the 360. I’ll also reiterate that I enjoyed Halo 4’s BTB. I think it is definitely 1st or 2nd on the list of games with the best BTB, miles better than H5’s casino-based Warzone. But take the time to understand why something you might love is not necessarily what most fans of a franchise want instead of repeatedly saying the same things and ignoring what others are trying to explain. After all, you posed the question by making the topic.
>
> The point is that Halo stuck to that independent mentality and beat out other competitors at the time. Either that or it thrived in itself. It’s not like there were no competitors at the time of Halo 3, for example. CoD4 was incredibly successful and is still a great game to this day. Halo 3 and CoD4 both managed to break records without doing anything that the other did.
>
> As a fan since the CE days, I’m definitely not looking for another game with “advanced movement.” I’m not the only one since MCC is extremely successful and even managed to be more popular than H5 after its big update last year. And before you mention that Halo 4 is a large reason for that, consider that 343i had to release the match composer because no one could play other games because everyone kept voting for H3. As much as I love H3, I personally think H2A is Halo MP perfection, so I was happy to see that feature added.

I don’t think you said that I was never allowed to enjoy Halo 4. Everyone is allowed to enjoy whatever they want, including you, and it’s not like I’m going to discriminate anyone who likes prefers different things from me.

Halo only started having competition with CoD 4, which coincides with the start of Halo’s slow demise. Halo 3 didn’t have any problems as far as popularity is concerned, but CoD was catching up at a very really fast pace, and the first hits at Halo came when Reach was released, which started the divide between the community. Even when CoD started to decline with Ghosts, it was still very popular, also taking into account the displeasure with Halo 4. It didn’t get any better with Halo 5, and although things looked not so great in BO3, CoD was still #1. From then on, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, and Apex Legends, have all competed for the #1 game in addition to Halo and CoD. But it seems like Halo isn’t even competing at all.

I don’t think that Halo 4 was the reason why the MCC is so popular. In fact, I don’t even play MCC, so I can’t say anything about it, and if I did, I would say that it’s that 5 really good games + another one coming soon, is in one collection. IMO, if Halo wants to be at the top of gaming, then they should try to appeal to a wide enough audience and not just the veterans by keeping things like sprint that many like, while retaining the Halo feel. Of course, you have a different opinion, so I wouldn’t argue with you. I just wanted to express my opinion, and it’s good that you did as well.

10

> 2533275016441431;9:
> > 2535425271455392;8:
> > > 2533275016441431;6:
> > >
> >
> > Why should they be obligated to accept features that drastically change something they enjoy? If those features change the experience to the point where it no longer offers what made them enjoy it, why should they have to adapt? Because brand loyalty?
>
> They had Reach and 4 to get used to the new style. That’s 5 years of gaming and by 2015, they should’ve been willing to accept the new style, and now that it’s been 9 years, they should’ve been able to now, right? Well, apparently not.
>
>
> > 2533274824050480;7:
> > > 2533275016441431;6:
> > >
> >
> > Again, I’ll repeat what I wrote that you clearly looked over. I never said you are not allowed to like H4. Halo fans like Halo, not CoD. Imagine throwing shields and aliens into CoD. CoD fans aren’t going to like that, are they? And neither would I because that would ruin CoD for me also. And yes, I do like CoD. Halo did its own thing and did it well, just like CoD and Battlefield appeal to their own audience.
> >
> > Again, you can like and play what you want, that’s why things like the match composer in MCC exist and why there are still people who play Halo 4 even on the 360. I’ll also reiterate that I enjoyed Halo 4’s BTB. I think it is definitely 1st or 2nd on the list of games with the best BTB, miles better than H5’s casino-based Warzone. But take the time to understand why something you might love is not necessarily what most fans of a franchise want instead of repeatedly saying the same things and ignoring what others are trying to explain. After all, you posed the question by making the topic.
> >
> > The point is that Halo stuck to that independent mentality and beat out other competitors at the time. Either that or it thrived in itself. It’s not like there were no competitors at the time of Halo 3, for example. CoD4 was incredibly successful and is still a great game to this day. Halo 3 and CoD4 both managed to break records without doing anything that the other did.
> >
> > As a fan since the CE days, I’m definitely not looking for another game with “advanced movement.” I’m not the only one since MCC is extremely successful and even managed to be more popular than H5 after its big update last year. And before you mention that Halo 4 is a large reason for that, consider that 343i had to release the match composer because no one could play other games because everyone kept voting for H3. As much as I love H3, I personally think H2A is Halo MP perfection, so I was happy to see that feature added.
>
> I don’t think you said that I was never allowed to enjoy Halo 4. Everyone is allowed to enjoy whatever they want, including you, and it’s not like I’m going to discriminate anyone who likes prefers different things from me.
>
> Halo only started having competition with CoD 4, which coincides with the start of Halo’s slow demise. Halo 3 didn’t have any problems as far as popularity is concerned, but CoD was catching up at a very really fast pace, and the first hits at Halo came when Reach was released, which started the divide between the community. Even when CoD started to decline with Ghosts, it was still very popular, also taking into account the displeasure with Halo 4. It didn’t get any better with Halo 5, and although things looked not so great in BO3, CoD was still #1. From then on, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, and Apex Legends, have all competed for the #1 game in addition to Halo and CoD. But it seems like Halo isn’t even competing at all.
>
> I don’t think that Halo 4 was the reason why the MCC is so popular. In fact, I don’t even play MCC, so I can’t say anything about it, and if I did, I would say that it’s that 5 really good games + another one coming soon, is in one collection. IMO, if Halo wants to be at the top of gaming, then they should try to appeal to a wide enough audience and not just the veterans by keeping things like sprint that many like, while retaining the Halo feel. Of course, you have a different opinion, so I wouldn’t argue with you. I just wanted to express my opinion, and it’s good that you did as well.

So because it’s persisted for a decade, that means these people should force themselves to enjoy something that doesn’t bring them joy? That’s some really flawed logic.

11

> 2533275016441431;9:
> > 2535425271455392;8:
> > > 2533275016441431;6:
> > >
> >
> > Why should they be obligated to accept features that drastically change something they enjoy? If those features change the experience to the point where it no longer offers what made them enjoy it, why should they have to adapt? Because brand loyalty?
>
> They had Reach and 4 to get used to the new style. That’s 5 years of gaming and by 2015, they should’ve been willing to accept the new style, and now that it’s been 9 years, they should’ve been able to now, right? Well, apparently not.
>
>
> > 2533274824050480;7:
> > > 2533275016441431;6:
> > >
> >
> > Again, I’ll repeat what I wrote that you clearly looked over. I never said you are not allowed to like H4. Halo fans like Halo, not CoD. Imagine throwing shields and aliens into CoD. CoD fans aren’t going to like that, are they? And neither would I because that would ruin CoD for me also. And yes, I do like CoD. Halo did its own thing and did it well, just like CoD and Battlefield appeal to their own audience.
> >
> > Again, you can like and play what you want, that’s why things like the match composer in MCC exist and why there are still people who play Halo 4 even on the 360. I’ll also reiterate that I enjoyed Halo 4’s BTB. I think it is definitely 1st or 2nd on the list of games with the best BTB, miles better than H5’s casino-based Warzone. But take the time to understand why something you might love is not necessarily what most fans of a franchise want instead of repeatedly saying the same things and ignoring what others are trying to explain. After all, you posed the question by making the topic.
> >
> > The point is that Halo stuck to that independent mentality and beat out other competitors at the time. Either that or it thrived in itself. It’s not like there were no competitors at the time of Halo 3, for example. CoD4 was incredibly successful and is still a great game to this day. Halo 3 and CoD4 both managed to break records without doing anything that the other did.
> >
> > As a fan since the CE days, I’m definitely not looking for another game with “advanced movement.” I’m not the only one since MCC is extremely successful and even managed to be more popular than H5 after its big update last year. And before you mention that Halo 4 is a large reason for that, consider that 343i had to release the match composer because no one could play other games because everyone kept voting for H3. As much as I love H3, I personally think H2A is Halo MP perfection, so I was happy to see that feature added.
>
> I don’t think you said that I was never allowed to enjoy Halo 4. Everyone is allowed to enjoy whatever they want, including you, and it’s not like I’m going to discriminate anyone who likes prefers different things from me.
>
> Halo only started having competition with CoD 4, which coincides with the start of Halo’s slow demise. Halo 3 didn’t have any problems as far as popularity is concerned, but CoD was catching up at a very really fast pace, and the first hits at Halo came when Reach was released, which started the divide between the community. Even when CoD started to decline with Ghosts, it was still very popular, also taking into account the displeasure with Halo 4. It didn’t get any better with Halo 5, and although things looked not so great in BO3, CoD was still #1. From then on, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, and Apex Legends, have all competed for the #1 game in addition to Halo and CoD. But it seems like Halo isn’t even competing at all.
>
> I don’t think that Halo 4 was the reason why the MCC is so popular. In fact, I don’t even play MCC, so I can’t say anything about it, and if I did, I would say that it’s that 5 really good games + another one coming soon, is in one collection. IMO, if Halo wants to be at the top of gaming, then they should try to appeal to a wide enough audience and not just the veterans by keeping things like sprint that many like, while retaining the Halo feel. Of course, you have a different opinion, so I wouldn’t argue with you. I just wanted to express my opinion, and it’s good that you did as well.

Always good to have discussions like this. I guess my thinking is that when a game starts to lose its identity to try and satisfy everyone, it fails to satisfy anyone. Or, at least, not as many people. I’m glad you enjoy Halo 4 because it’s not like it’s a terrible game. Credit where credit is due, the gameplay is super tight and the graphics are still top notch especially in MCC. A few things bug me about it which make it not as compelling to play, most of them having to do with the multiple ways in which 343i chose to experiment with Halo before releasing a game that followed the path of the older games.

I think a big reason why H5 wasn’t as successful was because they forgot what Halo was. Of course, as you mentioned, the campaign played a big role in that as well. And while I was among the crowd who thought H5’s MP was one of the best, I eventually began to dislike it because I realized I was only playing the same 2 or 3 gametypes rather than enjoying nearly every mode like I did with H3. A lot of that had to do with how it continuously reminded me of other games and how I did not feel that “magic” of the older games.

I get what you mean about appealing to a wider audience for sure. And games do need to evolve otherwise they’ll just get repetitive and stale. But, to me, the approach should be evolutionary rather than revolutionary, if that makes sense. And a game’s design should maintain the core of what gives it its identity. One example is equipment in H3 compared to pure pick ups in CE and H2. I can’t say what’s the best way to approach future games since I’m not getting paid to do so, but I’m hoping the guys who are have it figured out.

12

> 2535425271455392;10:
> > 2533275016441431;9:
> >
>
> So because it’s persisted for a decade, that means these people should force themselves to enjoy something that doesn’t bring them joy? That’s some really flawed logic.

Well, they’ve had time to get used to the new style, and they’ve wasted it.

> 2533274824050480;11:
> > 2533275016441431;9:
> > > 2535425271455392;8:
> > > > 2533275016441431;6:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why should they be obligated to accept features that drastically change something they enjoy? If those features change the experience to the point where it no longer offers what made them enjoy it, why should they have to adapt? Because brand loyalty?
> >
> > They had Reach and 4 to get used to the new style. That’s 5 years of gaming and by 2015, they should’ve been willing to accept the new style, and now that it’s been 9 years, they should’ve been able to now, right? Well, apparently not.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274824050480;7:
> > > > 2533275016441431;6:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Again, I’ll repeat what I wrote that you clearly looked over. I never said you are not allowed to like H4. Halo fans like Halo, not CoD. Imagine throwing shields and aliens into CoD. CoD fans aren’t going to like that, are they? And neither would I because that would ruin CoD for me also. And yes, I do like CoD. Halo did its own thing and did it well, just like CoD and Battlefield appeal to their own audience.
> > >
> > > Again, you can like and play what you want, that’s why things like the match composer in MCC exist and why there are still people who play Halo 4 even on the 360. I’ll also reiterate that I enjoyed Halo 4’s BTB. I think it is definitely 1st or 2nd on the list of games with the best BTB, miles better than H5’s casino-based Warzone. But take the time to understand why something you might love is not necessarily what most fans of a franchise want instead of repeatedly saying the same things and ignoring what others are trying to explain. After all, you posed the question by making the topic.
> > >
> > > The point is that Halo stuck to that independent mentality and beat out other competitors at the time. Either that or it thrived in itself. It’s not like there were no competitors at the time of Halo 3, for example. CoD4 was incredibly successful and is still a great game to this day. Halo 3 and CoD4 both managed to break records without doing anything that the other did.
> > >
> > > As a fan since the CE days, I’m definitely not looking for another game with “advanced movement.” I’m not the only one since MCC is extremely successful and even managed to be more popular than H5 after its big update last year. And before you mention that Halo 4 is a large reason for that, consider that 343i had to release the match composer because no one could play other games because everyone kept voting for H3. As much as I love H3, I personally think H2A is Halo MP perfection, so I was happy to see that feature added.
> >
> > I don’t think you said that I was never allowed to enjoy Halo 4. Everyone is allowed to enjoy whatever they want, including you, and it’s not like I’m going to discriminate anyone who likes prefers different things from me.
> >
> > Halo only started having competition with CoD 4, which coincides with the start of Halo’s slow demise. Halo 3 didn’t have any problems as far as popularity is concerned, but CoD was catching up at a very really fast pace, and the first hits at Halo came when Reach was released, which started the divide between the community. Even when CoD started to decline with Ghosts, it was still very popular, also taking into account the displeasure with Halo 4. It didn’t get any better with Halo 5, and although things looked not so great in BO3, CoD was still #1. From then on, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, and Apex Legends, have all competed for the #1 game in addition to Halo and CoD. But it seems like Halo isn’t even competing at all.
> >
> > I don’t think that Halo 4 was the reason why the MCC is so popular. In fact, I don’t even play MCC, so I can’t say anything about it, and if I did, I would say that it’s that 5 really good games + another one coming soon, is in one collection. IMO, if Halo wants to be at the top of gaming, then they should try to appeal to a wide enough audience and not just the veterans by keeping things like sprint that many like, while retaining the Halo feel. Of course, you have a different opinion, so I wouldn’t argue with you. I just wanted to express my opinion, and it’s good that you did as well.
>
> Always good to have discussions like this. I guess my thinking is that when a game starts to lose its identity to try and satisfy everyone, it fails to satisfy anyone. Or, at least, not as many people. I’m glad you enjoy Halo 4 because it’s not like it’s a terrible game. Credit where credit is due, the gameplay is super tight and the graphics are still top notch especially in MCC. A few things bug me about it which make it not as compelling to play, most of them having to do with the multiple ways in which 343i chose to experiment with Halo before releasing a game that followed the path of the older games.
>
> I think a big reason why H5 wasn’t as successful was because they forgot what Halo was. Of course, as you mentioned, the campaign played a big role in that as well. And while I was among the crowd who thought H5’s MP was one of the best, I eventually began to dislike it because I realized I was only playing the same 2 or 3 gametypes rather than enjoying nearly every mode like I did with H3. A lot of that had to do with how it continuously reminded me of other games and how I did not feel that “magic” of the older games.
>
> I get what you mean about appealing to a wider audience for sure. And games do need to evolve otherwise they’ll just get repetitive and stale. But, to me, the approach should be evolutionary rather than revolutionary, if that makes sense. And a game’s design should maintain the core of what gives it its identity. One example is equipment in H3 compared to pure pick ups in CE and H2. I can’t say what’s the best way to approach future games since I’m not getting paid to do so, but I’m hoping the guys who are have it figured out.

Even with loadouts and many more CoD elements, I think that Halo 4 still felt Halo, just with modern elements, unlike H5, which forgot what it was. I never really liked Halo 5’s MP with all the microtransactions and I can’t belive that 343 think that people liked it MTX, so IMO Halo 5 was just a terrible game all-round, except for maybe Forge and Custom Games.

I agree when you say that you didn’t feel the magic and the feel of the old games, and that’s what I want back. I hope that this time, 343 know what they’re doing and how they’re going to appeal to the fans + newcomers. No one, including me, truly knows what’s best for the franchise, except for them. So we can only assume what they’re going to do with Infinite.