Why classic mode won't work on H5.

There’s alot of comosion about sprint, thrusters, clamber and all that shazz and those who are gainst it (such as myself) have gotten a “classic mode” which disables sprint, clamber, thruster and the new other new abilities but that won’t work as people might think.

One of the reasons to why is that we have gotten no clarification if we will get normal zoom for the BR/DMR/Sniper and the rest of the ranged weapons when Smart-link is disabled and I wouldn’t be surprised if 343i never made one just to force us to use the smart-link.
Second reason to why is because the maps won’t work.

Many have probably seen when Ninja, one of the Pro HCS players, stream a whole day without sprint or thrusters and actually play well. But the problem here is that you won’t be able to use key points without using clamber. I can say that over 70% of all jumps on the H5 maps are not doable without using clamber, not even crouch jumping will help because inclines and surten areas are too high up.

Example: On Truth when you want to jump on pink 3, which is a power position, you need to use clamber because the ledge is too high up to actually crouch jump too.

Bumping up the jump height will make the game to wavey and jumping becomes more risky therefore breaking jumps.

Making forge maps, that actually work and have good spawns and work well with multiple gametypes, takes time, alot of time. It can take months and we who want classic will most likely leave before we get at least 2 maps to play on and forcing us to play on the original modes will only enrage us more and be disgusted.

Halo 5 is a step up from Halo 4 and is a fun game but it’s not close to classic gameplay. You’re forced to use mechanics that punish you more than benefiting you, the maps have a bad balance between open areas and closed areas, some mechanics just dumb-down fights and make them faster than intended.
For me Halo 5 is…good. But nothing I’d be able to spend much time enjoying, it’s too fast for a Halo game to me and has turned into a first-see-first-kill which I really do not enjoy because I need to rely on my teammates more than my individual skill.

Classic modes didn’t work on Halo Reach or Halo 4.

No smart player could think that a “classic” mode is the answer Halo2/3 players want. We know it wont work, we’ve said it won’t work, we’ve been proven correct in the past that it won’t work.

I’m expecting Halo 5 to do better than Halo 4 but still lose all the players it tries to steal.

Games become popular not by following trends but by carving out their own fanbase. Offering an experience unique to that franchise. Halo had a fanbase. 343i are chasing a new fanbase and failing.

Pretty much agree with everything you said, except I don’t think it’s a problem since Halo 5 is not supposed to be Halo 1-3 reskinned.

The forge maps and custom game types will come. It would be nice if these long time, “diehard” Halo fans could stick around a bit for those maps and perhaps 343 will toss them a dedicated, ranked playlist that exclusively runs tiny forge maps w/ lower movement speed and Spartan Abilities disabled.

> it’s too fast for a Halo game to me and has turned into a first-see-first-kill

I really don’t think that’s the case at all. TTK might be a little faster than Halo 2-3 but it is still longer than Halo CE in my estimation.

I think the only mechanics that are off is spartan(strike/charge?) and groundpound which felt like unnecasary ressources spent on something that doesnt do anyhting for the expereince or gameplay. I want to see them being incoorporated better or ditched as i have suggested before, maybe they will be more usefull in BTB, but when i played the Beta, it felt a little comical and maybe a tad exaggerating the concept of spartans being “Super-Soldiers” making them more like marvel heroes… The only thing we need is comboes and fighting animation and there you go, (maybe that would be cool for a spin off), but if you get what i am saying, it can become a bit unfocused :slight_smile:

That is one of the reasons that the custom game toggles were such an empty gift. Maps are not designed to be used without the new abilities and as a result issues inevitably start to crop up. That’s on top of being relegated to custom games only and at best maybe one playlist. Limited to only a fraction of the multiplayer game, with maps and a sandbox that are not designed for the ‘classic’ experience and yet some people seem to be surprised that other are not impressed with 343 listening to our feedback.

> 2533274800197828;3:
> > it’s too fast for a Halo game to me and has turned into a first-see-first-kill
>
>
> I really don’t think that’s the case at all. TTK might be a little faster than Halo 2-3 but it is still longer than Halo CE in my estimation.

It’s not only the kill times but the movement, the easy escapes and map design which makes the game faster.

And what is the fuss about clamber? That is a feature that actually enchances your gameplay and makes traversal and levelling more interesting and strategic. If the concers is that doesnt take skill now, because everyone can do it and there is no skill gap, trust me i dont think those people could care less, as they wont have any enviromental clues, or be aware of their surroundings. More people may use it, but there are things like that only very competetive people care about, and those people would already know how to get to those spots without the clamber ability :slight_smile:

> 2547348539238747;2:
> Classic modes didn’t work on Halo Reach or Halo 4.
>
> No smart player could think that a “classic” mode is the answer Halo2/3 players want. We know it wont work, we’ve said it won’t work, we’ve been proven correct in the past that it won’t work.
>
> I’m expecting Halo 5 to do better than Halo 4 but still lose all the players it tries to steal.
>
> Games become popular not by following trends but by carving out their own fanbase. Offering an experience unique to that franchise. Halo had a fanbase. 343i are chasing a new fanbase and failing.

I still fail to realize how Halo 5 hasn’t tried to appeal to both fanbases. Your statement basically says Halo 5 is becoming the norm, when in fact I can’t find a game existing right now that feels anything like it.

> 2533274828579555;8:
> > 2547348539238747;2:
> > Classic modes didn’t work on Halo Reach or Halo 4.
> >
> > No smart player could think that a “classic” mode is the answer Halo2/3 players want. We know it wont work, we’ve said it won’t work, we’ve been proven correct in the past that it won’t work.
> >
> > I’m expecting Halo 5 to do better than Halo 4 but still lose all the players it tries to steal.
> >
> > Games become popular not by following trends but by carving out their own fanbase. Offering an experience unique to that franchise. Halo had a fanbase. 343i are chasing a new fanbase and failing.
>
>
> I still fail to realize how Halo 5 hasn’t tried to appeal to both fanbases. Your statement basically says Halo 5 is becoming the norm, when in fact I can’t find a game existing right now that feels anything like it.

It’s hard to find something just like it because it’s a mix of everyting. You find bits and peices of other games implemented into it so it’s hard put it where it stands. It’s like a frankenstein FPS.

> 2535411404144276;7:
> And what is the fuss about clamber? That is a feature that actually enchances your gameplay and makes traversal and levelling more interesting and strategic. If the concers is that doesnt take skill now, because everyone can do it and there is no skill gap, trust me i dont think those people could care less, as they wont have any enviromental clues, or be aware of their surroundings. More people may use it, but there are things like that only very competetive people care about, and those people would already know how to get to those spots without the clamber ability :slight_smile:

In previous Halos, jumps required crouch jumping and other tricks, which were skills not everybody could pull off. As such, they rewarded players who took the time to learn the game.

Clamber is an automatic mechanic. It requires no skill whatsoever to use. Routes which might otherwise have been rewards for skilled players are now open for general use.

Going slightly off-topic, the actual animation is painfully slow. Crysis 2 and 3 got a lot of things wrong, but the clamber system was perfect and that’s the direction Halo 5 should’ve gone for.

> 2535411404144276;7:
> And what is the fuss about clamber? That is a feature that actually enchances your gameplay and makes traversal and levelling more interesting and strategic. If the concers is that doesnt take skill now, because everyone can do it and there is no skill gap, trust me i dont think those people could care less, as they wont have any enviromental clues, or be aware of their surroundings. More people may use it, but there are things like that only very competetive people care about, and those people would already know how to get to those spots without the clamber ability :slight_smile:

With clamber, there is only one possiblity. I simply look at the location of higher elevation, jump to it, hit the clamber button, and am forced to look in one direction when the animation is complete. With crouch jumping, I don’t have to look at the location of higher elevation, I can look in any direction I want to. I can also shoot at enemies, observe my environment, etc. while I’m in mid air, as im not forced to look in a specific direction, press a button, and perform an animation while doing it. Also, when I successfully get to said location, I can quickly decide if I should be there in the first place, and can respond by automatically rebounding, immediately moving in a different direction, setting up a trap, etc. With clamber, I feel like i am being punished for using it, as I’m vulnerable for 2 seconds (a long time), am forced to look in a set direction for an additional second, and have to re-observe my surroundings. So not only does clamber not take any skill, it is also very disorienting.

So I guess creating maps without Spartan Abilities in mind won’t be enough for them.

I’m sure that they can use Forge objects to some extent to account for no abilities, like to give you a boost up to a ledge you normally clamber over, extra pieces of cover in open spaces to account for no sprint, and even whole maps done in Forge, which could be really interesting with the new time of day mechanic in Forge that was used in the beta (Pegasus and Orion were on the same Forge map but had very different lighting) and who knows what else Forgers will have access to to give custom maps variety.

I’m not saying this will fix everything, I’m just throwing some ideas out there as to some of the things they could do.

> 2533274800197828;3:
> Pretty much agree with everything you said, except I don’t think it’s a problem since Halo 5 is not supposed to be Halo 1-3 reskinned.
>
> The forge maps and custom game types will come. It would be nice if these long time, “diehard” Halo fans could stick around a bit for those maps and perhaps 343 will toss them a dedicated, ranked playlist that exclusively runs tiny forge maps w/ lower movement speed and Spartan Abilities disabled.
>
>
>
> > it’s too fast for a Halo game to me and has turned into a first-see-first-kill
>
>
> I really don’t think that’s the case at all. TTK might be a little faster than Halo 2-3 but it is still longer than Halo CE in my estimation.

Just because CE has the fastest “perfect” TTK in theory doesn’t mean it has the fastest in practice. I think the H5B had faster kill times in a real game setting because a H5B 4-shot was easier than a perfect 3-shot in CE. I really loved the beta, I’m just pointing out that the kill times were a bit too easy to be that fast.

> 2533274822366750;11:
> > 2535411404144276;7:
> > And what is the fuss about clamber? That is a feature that actually enchances your gameplay and makes traversal and levelling more interesting and strategic. If the concers is that doesnt take skill now, because everyone can do it and there is no skill gap, trust me i dont think those people could care less, as they wont have any enviromental clues, or be aware of their surroundings. More people may use it, but there are things like that only very competetive people care about, and those people would already know how to get to those spots without the clamber ability :slight_smile:
>
>
>
> With clamber, there is only one possiblity. I simply look at the location of higher elevation, jump to it, hit the clamber button, and am forced to look in one direction when the animation is complete. With crouch jumping, I don’t have to look at the location of higher elevation, I can look in any direction I want to. I can also shoot at enemies, observe my environment, etc. while I’m in mid air, as im not forced to look in a specific direction, press a button, and perform an animation while doing it. Also, when I successfully get to said location, I can quickly decide if I should be there in the first place, and can respond by automatically rebounding, immediately moving in a different direction, setting up a trap, etc. With clamber, I feel like i am being punished for using it, as I’m vulnerable for 2 seconds (a long time), am forced to look in a set direction for an additional second, and have to re-observe my surroundings. So not only does clamber not take any skill, it is also very disorienting.

I guess nitpicking is a thing in the communtiy, it should be the least of our concerns, like come on guys, be a little more positive :wink: It may be disoirentating but thats from your perspective, its not black and white, as i wrote it enchances your gameplay, and is usefull, and you got to look at the pros and cons, i think it makes the game more dynamic, because of the traversal and different levelling. Everything comes with a consequense, nothing is perfect, one just got to accept some things in life and move on, not everything is worth fighting for, pick your battles wisely :slight_smile:

They could easily whip up a few maps (or even forge maps) specifically designed for classic mobility. We could do that too, but they could provide some if they were to implement a more classic playlist.

Or you could just clamber and thrust around because it’s awesome. <- subjectively factual :stuck_out_tongue:

> 2533274843463464;9:
> > 2533274828579555;8:
> > > 2547348539238747;2:
> > > Classic modes didn’t work on Halo Reach or Halo 4.
> > >
> > > No smart player could think that a “classic” mode is the answer Halo2/3 players want. We know it wont work, we’ve said it won’t work, we’ve been proven correct in the past that it won’t work.
> > >
> > > I’m expecting Halo 5 to do better than Halo 4 but still lose all the players it tries to steal.
> > >
> > > Games become popular not by following trends but by carving out their own fanbase. Offering an experience unique to that franchise. Halo had a fanbase. 343i are chasing a new fanbase and failing.
> >
> >
> >
> > I still fail to realize how Halo 5 hasn’t tried to appeal to both fanbases. Your statement basically says Halo 5 is becoming the norm, when in fact I can’t find a game existing right now that feels anything like it.
>
>
> It’s hard to find something just like it because it’s a mix of everyting. You find bits and peices of other games implemented into it so it’s hard put it where it stands. It’s like a frankenstein FPS.

More like a delicious double-decker cheese burger with all the right ingredients and toppings added to it to enhance the flavor. Might as well throw in a side of the most golden and crispy french fries you have ever seen too.

Are they losing fans or are their fans growing up and expecting different things.