Why changing gameplay drastically is bad.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

When a sequel to a huge franchise of gamesis drastically changed or made solely for “experimentation” the end result could come off as good or bad. However even if the new gameplay was just as good as the second coming of Jesus Christ, you will still end up alienating your hardcore fans and split the community.

A prime example of this is the sonic the hedgehog franchise. When it started going 3D it went through so much experimentation and gameplay styles including boost, adventure, teamwork, and guns, that it tore it’s fanbase apart and created such a massive divide and drove off so many people from the classic era it became impossible for the fans to settle to one style.

Halo is going through a similar thing. It started with reach. It introduced AA and bloom. While it didn’t have as much of an impact as later games. It still drove off a lot of people.
Then came halo 4 which seemed to start to head to the call of duty direction. Halo 4 brought sprint (that’s not AA Anyway), Loadouts, AA’s which were now OP, Ordanance and a completly different art style.
Halo 5 goes even further. Most of the things I listed for 4 were just shoved in to Warzone. Halo 5 also brought unlimited sprint, ADS, Ground-pound, charging, Clamber, Microtransactions, An unlock system completly based on RNG and A campaign that mostly revolves around 3 characters no one cares about and an old character awkwardly shoved in.

These 3 games drastically changed the formula fans were used to, which alienated the fanbase and split it similarly to the sonic the hedgehog fanbase. Now, no body can agree on one thing and the majority of the old fans have jumped ship.

I understand 343 tried to get halo 5 to appeal to a new generation but by ripping off an already established franchise and pulling it off worse, most of the new gamers 343 tried to draw will just go back to cod. And sure enough that’s exactly what happened.

I also understand that halo can’t just copy and paste the halo 3 style forever. But your supposed to build up on the established style to add something fresh, not just say -Yoink- it and rip off other shooters. Halo 2/3 did that fine. They added new mechanics, weapons, vechiles ETC, that Makes the new installment fresh without completely changing the style.

Overall, by experimenting with the franchise too much, 343 have torn the halo fanbase apart.

2

I bet you that the same people who say the series should change and evolve from the past will get angry if halo 6 changed from halo 5

3

> 2533274816487930;2:
> I bet you that the same people who say the series should change and evolve from the past will get angry if halo 6 changed from halo 5

I know I would,I love classic halo,but this may have all of these abilities and look different but it’s still halo.

4

Everyone brings up the minimal change from Halo 2 to Halo 3, but no one ever talks about the drastic change from Halo CE to Halo 2.

Basically it all comes down to “Good change is good. Bad change is bad.”

5

> 2533274833081329;4:
> Everyone brings up the minimal change from Halo 2 to Halo 3, but no one ever talks about the drastic change from Halo CE to Halo 2.
>
> Basically it all comes down to “Good change is good. Bad change is bad.”

yeah but most the changes from CE to H2 were pretty bad IMO, did you ever hear of the website Halo2sucks.com? Not that im saying it was actually a bad game but if CE had been an xbox live game…need I say any more.

6

> 2533274989334266;5:
> > 2533274833081329;4:
> > Everyone brings up the minimal change from Halo 2 to Halo 3, but no one ever talks about the drastic change from Halo CE to Halo 2.
> >
> > Basically it all comes down to “Good change is good. Bad change is bad.”
>
>
> yeah but most the changes from CE to H2 were pretty bad IMO, did you ever hear of the website Halo2sucks.com? Not that im saying it was actually a bad game but if CE had been an xbox live game…need I say any more.

Of course, the “purists” saw a completely different game in Halo 2 compared to the original they were used to.

Just like Halo 5.

7

> 2533274833081329;6:
> > 2533274989334266;5:
> > > 2533274833081329;4:
> > > Everyone brings up the minimal change from Halo 2 to Halo 3, but no one ever talks about the drastic change from Halo CE to Halo 2.
> > >
> > > Basically it all comes down to “Good change is good. Bad change is bad.”
> >
> >
> > yeah but most the changes from CE to H2 were pretty bad IMO, did you ever hear of the website Halo2sucks.com? Not that im saying it was actually a bad game but if CE had been an xbox live game…need I say any more.
>
>
> Of course, the “purists” saw a completely different game in Halo 2 compared to the original they were used to.
>
> Just like Halo 5.

I agree, should have phrased my point a bit better. It all comes down to time in the end. A game or two down the line and changes tend not to look so bad, people on here tend to see H3 as some kind of holy grail but even in the change from H2 to H3 there were grumblings, not as severe but they were there.

8

I’d find it very entertaining if Halo 6 doesn’t have sprint, I’m gonna be the first one to make a post telling everyone to adapt and accept change.

OT: Agreed. You can’t change up the fundamental gameplay and expect to keep the same fanbase.

> 2533274989334266;5:
> > 2533274833081329;4:
> > Everyone brings up the minimal change from Halo 2 to Halo 3, but no one ever talks about the drastic change from Halo CE to Halo 2.
> >
> > Basically it all comes down to “Good change is good. Bad change is bad.”
>
>
> yeah but most the changes from CE to H2 were pretty bad IMO, did you ever hear of the website Halo2sucks.com? Not that im saying it was actually a bad game but if CE had been an xbox live game…need I say any more.

But somehow H2 got away with this. The gameplay from CE-2 changed from an individual with power, to everyone has to stick together to have a decent killtime in Halo 2. Halo 5 is doing something right with the killtimes, just the utility needs to kill faster.

That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.

9

> 2533274970658419;8:
> That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.

Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).

10

> 2533274805497312;9:
> > 2533274970658419;8:
> > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
>
>
> Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
>
> Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).

In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.

How large do you think the population is?

11

> 2533274970658419;10:
> > 2533274805497312;9:
> > > 2533274970658419;8:
> > > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
> >
> >
> > Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
> >
> > Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).
>
>
> In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.
>
> How large do you think the population is?

You’re telling me different players play different games? That’s some ground breaking stuff you’re thinking there. If I may offer: that’s perfectly fine.

Can’t say I care what the population is now, like I didn’t care what it was in Halo 3. Popularity stopped being a thing back in high school. As long as I can find a match, I’m cool with the population. Funny enough I have an easier time getting matches in H5 compared to H3 (which I don’t think is a unique case).

12

SO EVERY DEV SHOULD JUST COPY BUNGIE’S WORK FOR THE REST OF HALO? It doesn’t work that way.

13

> 2533274805497312;11:
> > 2533274970658419;10:
> > > 2533274805497312;9:
> > > > 2533274970658419;8:
> > > > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
> > >
> > > Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).
> >
> >
> > In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.
> >
> > How large do you think the population is?
>
>
> You’re telling me different players play different games? That’s some ground breaking stuff you’re thinking there. If I may offer: that’s perfectly fine.
>
> Can’t say I care what the population is now, like I didn’t care what it was in Halo 3. Popularity stopped being a thing back in high school. As long as I can find a match, I’m cool with the population. Funny enough I have an easier time getting matches in H5 compared to H3 (which I don’t think is a unique case).

Different players don’t just stop playing a series all together.

You should care. If you want halo to be popular again you’d want a lot of people playing it, more players means a bigger competitive scene, more players also means they’d want to ship a fuller game on release. The developers also benefit from a large playerbase because more people are buying there product. Everyone wins.

14

> 2533274970658419;13:
> > 2533274805497312;11:
> > > 2533274970658419;10:
> > > > 2533274805497312;9:
> > > > > 2533274970658419;8:
> > > > > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
> > > >
> > > > Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).
> > >
> > >
> > > In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.
> > >
> > > How large do you think the population is?
> >
> >
> > You’re telling me different players play different games? That’s some ground breaking stuff you’re thinking there. If I may offer: that’s perfectly fine.
> >
> > Can’t say I care what the population is now, like I didn’t care what it was in Halo 3. Popularity stopped being a thing back in high school. As long as I can find a match, I’m cool with the population. Funny enough I have an easier time getting matches in H5 compared to H3 (which I don’t think is a unique case).
>
>
> Different players don’t just stop playing a series all together.
>
> You should care. If you want halo to be popular again you’d want a lot of people playing it, more players means a bigger competitive scene, more players also means they’d want to ship a fuller game on release. The developers also benefit from a large playerbase because more people are buying there product. Everyone wins.

Different players do just stop playing a series altogether, especially when that series is in year 15 of its life span.

And like I said, I don’t care if Halo is popular again or “omfg halo number 1.” I want to play a game I like. I liked Halo 3, and it was one of the two most popular games on the market. I like Halo 5 more and the gap between it and anything else out now is substantial. I really don’t care what matters to anyone else because who has time for that.

I guess I’m also unique in the sense that entertainment has its place in my life. When Bungie stopped making good games I like playing, I didn’t mope around for years hoping they’d start making something that appealed to me. Gave it a few months to see if things turned towards my interest, then left for better alternatives when it didn’t. Not sure why others can’t do the same.

15

> 2535461330364523;12:
> SO EVERY DEV SHOULD JUST COPY BUNGIE’S WORK FOR THE REST OF HALO? It doesn’t work that way.

Yeah!

Instead of copying Bungie’s Halo, let’s take ADS from COD, thrust from The 4, slide from Ghosts, Spartan Charge from Destiny, and Ground pound from AW, and clamber and sprint from literally every other military shooter! It’s MODURN!!11!!

We don’t need to make a game that looks like Halo!

16

> 2533274805497312;14:
> > 2533274970658419;13:
> > > 2533274805497312;11:
> > > > 2533274970658419;10:
> > > > > 2533274805497312;9:
> > > > > > 2533274970658419;8:
> > > > > > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
> > > > >
> > > > > Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.
> > > >
> > > > How large do you think the population is?
> > >
> > >
> > > You’re telling me different players play different games? That’s some ground breaking stuff you’re thinking there. If I may offer: that’s perfectly fine.
> > >
> > > Can’t say I care what the population is now, like I didn’t care what it was in Halo 3. Popularity stopped being a thing back in high school. As long as I can find a match, I’m cool with the population. Funny enough I have an easier time getting matches in H5 compared to H3 (which I don’t think is a unique case).
> >
> >
> > Different players don’t just stop playing a series all together.
> >
> > You should care. If you want halo to be popular again you’d want a lot of people playing it, more players means a bigger competitive scene, more players also means they’d want to ship a fuller game on release. The developers also benefit from a large playerbase because more people are buying there product. Everyone wins.
>
>
> Different players do just stop playing a series altogether, especially when that series is in year 15 of its life span.
>
> And like I said, I don’t care if Halo is popular again or “omfg halo number 1.” I want to play a game I like. I liked Halo 3, and it was one of the two most popular games on the market. I like Halo 5 more and the gap between it and anything else out now is substantial. I really don’t care what matters to anyone else because who has time for that.
>
> I guess I’m also unique in the sense that entertainment has its place in my life. When Bungie stopped making good games I like playing, I didn’t mope around for years hoping they’d start making something that appealed to me. Gave it a few months to see if things turned towards my interest, then left for better alternatives when it didn’t. Not sure why others can’t do the same.

But what about CS? Running from 1999-2016. The most popular shooter on the market.

Great way to build a community.

Because Halo means something to a lot of fans, and some of us think there’s still time to go back to the old style.

17

> 2533274833081329;4:
> Everyone brings up the minimal change from Halo 2 to Halo 3, but no one ever talks about the drastic change from Halo CE to Halo 2.
>
> Basically it all comes down to “Good change is good. Bad change is bad.”

Those are harder changes to be critical of because a lot of them were made because the game was switching from LAN to an online network that was in its infancy.

18

> 2533274970658419;16:
> > 2533274805497312;14:
> > > 2533274970658419;13:
> > > > 2533274805497312;11:
> > > > > 2533274970658419;10:
> > > > > > 2533274805497312;9:
> > > > > > > 2533274970658419;8:
> > > > > > > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.
> > > > >
> > > > > How large do you think the population is?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You’re telling me different players play different games? That’s some ground breaking stuff you’re thinking there. If I may offer: that’s perfectly fine.
> > > >
> > > > Can’t say I care what the population is now, like I didn’t care what it was in Halo 3. Popularity stopped being a thing back in high school. As long as I can find a match, I’m cool with the population. Funny enough I have an easier time getting matches in H5 compared to H3 (which I don’t think is a unique case).
> > >
> > >
> > > Different players don’t just stop playing a series all together.
> > >
> > > You should care. If you want halo to be popular again you’d want a lot of people playing it, more players means a bigger competitive scene, more players also means they’d want to ship a fuller game on release. The developers also benefit from a large playerbase because more people are buying there product. Everyone wins.
> >
> >
> > Different players do just stop playing a series altogether, especially when that series is in year 15 of its life span.
> >
> > And like I said, I don’t care if Halo is popular again or “omfg halo number 1.” I want to play a game I like. I liked Halo 3, and it was one of the two most popular games on the market. I like Halo 5 more and the gap between it and anything else out now is substantial. I really don’t care what matters to anyone else because who has time for that.
> >
> > I guess I’m also unique in the sense that entertainment has its place in my life. When Bungie stopped making good games I like playing, I didn’t mope around for years hoping they’d start making something that appealed to me. Gave it a few months to see if things turned towards my interest, then left for better alternatives when it didn’t. Not sure why others can’t do the same.
>
>
> But what about CS? Running from 1999-2016. The most popular shooter on the market.
>
> Great way to build a community.
>
> Because Halo means something to a lot of fans, and some of us think there’s still time to go back to the old style.

For all the discussion of Counter Strike, I’ve literally only ever seen people talk about it in forums (which makes your popularity comment stick out as funny to me). And I know nobody that plays it. Or watches it, which is apparently a big deal I’ve heard. It’s PC, right? I imagine the differences in which the PC gaming community operates and the console gaming community operates are glaring. I’d guess their developers have different goals and objectives than 343. And it’s totally fine for them to have different appeals.

It’s okay for something to mean something to people yet they still manage to have healthy attachments, but I don’t really care to go into stranger’s attachments.

19

I don’t think changing gameplay is bad. Not making a complete and oustanding game is bad. Halo is our flagship title, and Halo 5 should be THE game to play. It should have splitscreen, blood, playable elites and regional server selection. It should have had all the content at launch, with NEW things as dlc, it should be everything other games are not imo.

20

> 2533274805497312;18:
> > 2533274970658419;16:
> > > 2533274805497312;14:
> > > > 2533274970658419;13:
> > > > > 2533274805497312;11:
> > > > > > 2533274970658419;10:
> > > > > > > 2533274805497312;9:
> > > > > > > > 2533274970658419;8:
> > > > > > > > That website isn’t much proof of how H2 was getting hate. The game started MLG, and had a very strong following. In that case, it was the minority “complaining”.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Every Halo has a minority group of people complaining about how they like the game less than the previous (or how they like it less than the iteration they began playing).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In our case, it’s only a minority because millions left, and now it’s just a few hundred of us on the forums who don’t enjoy Halo 5 as much.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How large do you think the population is?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re telling me different players play different games? That’s some ground breaking stuff you’re thinking there. If I may offer: that’s perfectly fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can’t say I care what the population is now, like I didn’t care what it was in Halo 3. Popularity stopped being a thing back in high school. As long as I can find a match, I’m cool with the population. Funny enough I have an easier time getting matches in H5 compared to H3 (which I don’t think is a unique case).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Different players don’t just stop playing a series all together.
> > > >
> > > > You should care. If you want halo to be popular again you’d want a lot of people playing it, more players means a bigger competitive scene, more players also means they’d want to ship a fuller game on release. The developers also benefit from a large playerbase because more people are buying there product. Everyone wins.
> > >
> > >
> > > Different players do just stop playing a series altogether, especially when that series is in year 15 of its life span.
> > >
> > > And like I said, I don’t care if Halo is popular again or “omfg halo number 1.” I want to play a game I like. I liked Halo 3, and it was one of the two most popular games on the market. I like Halo 5 more and the gap between it and anything else out now is substantial. I really don’t care what matters to anyone else because who has time for that.
> > >
> > > I guess I’m also unique in the sense that entertainment has its place in my life. When Bungie stopped making good games I like playing, I didn’t mope around for years hoping they’d start making something that appealed to me. Gave it a few months to see if things turned towards my interest, then left for better alternatives when it didn’t. Not sure why others can’t do the same.
> >
> >
> > But what about CS? Running from 1999-2016. The most popular shooter on the market.
> >
> > Great way to build a community.
> >
> > Because Halo means something to a lot of fans, and some of us think there’s still time to go back to the old style.
>
>
> For all the discussion of Counter Strike, I’ve literally only ever seen people talk about it in forums (which makes your popularity comment stick out as funny to me). And I know nobody that plays it. Or watches it, which is apparently a big deal I’ve heard. It’s PC, right? I imagine the differences in which the PC gaming community operates and the console gaming community operates are glaring. I’d guess their developers have different goals and objectives than 343. And it’s totally fine for them to have different appeals.
>
> It’s okay for something to mean something to people yet they still manage to have healthy attachments, but I don’t really care to go into stranger’s attachments.

Population. Twitch. (Which is probably the entirety of Halo 5’s population). Anecdotal evidence my friend, it doesn’t matter if you or your friends don’t watch it or play it.

PC gaming is mainly focused around competition and competitive players, while consoles are casual haven.