When listening to what 343GS said to the ch9ief in Halo ce and Halo 3 (especially halo 3) doesn’t that tell us that the forerunners are humans.
In halo ce 343GS says to chief about certain things as if he was supposed to know it
But, once the others follow suit, this galaxy will be quite devoid of life, or at least any life with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. But you already knew that… I mean, how couldn’t you?"
“Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed. There is no choice. We must activate the ring.”
And in Halo 3 343GS says
“You are forerunner”
So what changed why aren’t forerunners humans as it seemed to have suggest in the past? I know this is an old topic that has been discussed many times but I never understood it and it has come to my interest again.
> > So what changed why aren’t forerunners humans as it seemed to have suggest in the past?
>
> <mark>Nothing since they never were the same. It was a mystery, but has since been resolved with the Forerunner Saga</mark>.
Right. Librarian “reset” mankind back to it’s beginning, this changed us.
It appears that the Forerunners being Ancient Humans was an idea in the past, but was since scrapped and fully resolved with the Forerunner Trilogy.
Spark’s comments about things it seems we should know can be explained by his rampancy, having trouble remembering and grasping that you are not who he continues to think you are.
There is, though, another possibility. That John carries a geas of a Forerunner, notably the IsoDidact. That could be why Spark is confusing John with him.
His “You are Forerunner” comment is explained by the fact that “Forerunner” is a title. Not a species name. The Forerunners adopted it as such, but in this case Spark was using it to reference Humanity’s destiny to reclaim the Forerunner legacy, essentially becoming “Forerunners”.
Transitioning the Forerunners into a separate species, though with some interesting genetic links to Humanity, allowed the story and Forerunner side to expand more. New species, we can have new ideas and abilities and methods. More importantly, new stories for them. And I think this change has served them very well.
> > So what changed why aren’t forerunners humans as it seemed to have suggest in the past?
>
> Nothing since they never were the same. It was a mystery, but has since been resolved with the Forerunner Saga.
But didn’t bungie originally intend the forerunners to be humans but changed that at a later time?
> > > So what changed why aren’t forerunners humans as it seemed to have suggest in the past?
> >
> > Nothing since they never were the same. It was a mystery, but has since been resolved with the Forerunner Saga.
>
> But didn’t bungie originally intend the forerunners to be humans but changed that at a later time?
Considering nothing ever said that in any of the games or the books, and no Bungie employee involved with the actual creative process of the story (IE, writing it or coming up with the plot and so forth) ever said that either, I think it’s pretty safe to say that no, they never did. Humans and Forerunners have always been a separate species, that’s how I always saw it from the very beginning when I first started playing/reading.
Spark’s comments in CE and 3 were retconned as part of his Rampancy, but popular belief is that Bungie intended humans and forerunners to be the same, but when it was decided that Halo was going to be more than a trilogy they left it ambiguous instead of concluding the series with that revelation and moving on to Destiny.
> Spark’s comments in CE and 3 were retconned as part of his Rampancy, but <mark>popular belief is that Bungie intended humans and forerunners to be the same, but when it was decided that Halo was going to be more than a trilogy they left it ambiguous instead of concluding the series with that revelation and moving on to Destiny</mark>.
> Spark’s comments in CE and 3 were retconned as part of his Rampancy, but popular belief is that Bungie intended humans and forerunners to be the same, but when it was decided that Halo was going to be more than a trilogy they left it ambiguous instead of concluding the series with that revelation and moving on to Destiny.
That would only work if the Halo 3 terminals didn’t make it very clear that they are separate species.
> > Spark’s comments in CE and 3 were retconned as part of his Rampancy, but popular belief is that Bungie intended humans and forerunners to be the same, but when it was decided that Halo was going to be more than a trilogy they left it ambiguous instead of concluding the series with that revelation and moving on to Destiny.
>
> That would only work if the Halo 3 terminals didn’t make it very clear that they are separate species.
And that’d be why I didn’t realize that. Need to do some homework.
> > > > So what changed why aren’t forerunners humans as it seemed to have suggest in the past?
> > >
> > > Nothing since they never were the same. It was a mystery, but has since been resolved with the Forerunner Saga.
> >
> > But didn’t bungie originally intend the forerunners to be humans but changed that at a later time?
>
> Considering nothing ever said that in any of the games or the books, and no Bungie employee involved with the actual creative process of the story (IE, writing it or coming up with the plot and so forth) ever said that either, I think it’s pretty safe to say that no, they never did. <mark>Humans and Forerunners have always been a separate species, that’s how I always saw it from the very beginning when I first started playing/reading.</mark>
That’s the impression I have always had, I just started to get bit confused when I seen on a number of occasions people saying bungie intended the forerunners to be human at first and to make it more confusing for me is the stuff 343GS has been saying to chief throughout the games.
> > > > So what changed why aren’t forerunners humans as it seemed to have suggest in the past?
> > >
> > > Nothing since they never were the same. It was a mystery, but has since been resolved with the Forerunner Saga.
> >
> > But didn’t bungie originally intend the forerunners to be humans but changed that at a later time?
>
> Considering nothing ever said that in any of the games or the books, and no Bungie employee involved with the actual creative process of the story (IE, writing it or coming up with the plot and so forth) ever said that either, I think it’s pretty safe to say that no, they never did. Humans and Forerunners have always been a separate species, that’s how I always saw it from the very beginning when I first started playing/reading.
Nothing ever said it?
It was hinted and referenced several times in CE.
It wasn’t pushed enough to make it completely true or anything, but you can’t say Bungie never had them together.
CE Spark, several times, talks to Chief as if he knew stuff that happened a hundred thousand years ago. Questions as if Chief originally asked him. Knowledge as if Chief knew.
Now, of course, we can assume it was the result of a geas and Spark’s rampancy. 10 Years ago?
Spark’s rampancy was created by 343i for Halo Anniversary. The geas and Spark’s origins by 343i and Greg Bear.
It is quite hinted, due to lack of any other information at the time, that the Forerunners were intended to be Ancient Humans. Having deevolved themselves or something due to the Halos, and Spark not taking into account the difference.
Also, when Chief first interacts with Forerunner tech. He does it without really thinking, as if he knew.
By Halo 3 that thought was certainly replaced, but CE? Without things like the geas explaining this… the connection was too great at the time.
I thought it had something to do with John containing the Iso-Didact’s geas, and the fact that Guilty Spark was basically bat-poop-crazy after spending 100’000 years alone on Halo.
Maybe it was only at certain times that GS though John was Bornsteller, or maybe he knew that John was Human, and was talking to the geas?
> John Spartan 117 = Forerunner / Human. <mark>Only a forerunner could let The Didact escape his prison</mark>
>
>
> Cortana/Halsey/Librarian = Forerunner Ai / Human / Forerunner but to me they are all the same person in someway.
>
> Nothing changed the story just expanded but it will pull back together at sometime in the future (or the past)
Sure about that? Thought it was a “reclaimer” so I guess either Forerunner or Human?
By the time the Iso-Didact fired the Halo Arrays, humanity had already been declared the “Reclaimers” by the Librarian, and were likely given unique access to Forerunner technology so that they could use it to uphold the Mantle and combat the Flood, should they ever return. This explains why humans, and no other species, can access much of the Forerunner technology. This idea is supported when you consider the fact that the Librarian was in some way involved in the creation of each of the pieces of Forerunner tech we have seen humans access (i.e. the Lesser Ark, Installation 04, Installation 05, Requiem), while Forerunner installations that did not involve the Librarian (that we know of), like Onyx, appear to be immediately hostile toward humans.
We know that 343GS was once the human Chakas who, after being mortally wounded, was converted into a Forerunner ancilla by the Iso-Didact. Thus there is a reasonable argument to be made that 343GS could identify himself as both Forerunner AND human. We also know that 343GS was likely succumbing to the early stages of rampancy by the events of Halo: CE. I would argue that 343GS’ identities as both a human and a Forerunner could have easily gotten mixed over the course of his descent into madness, so that, by the time he meets the Chief, the two species have become one and the same in his mind. This would also explain 343GS’ confusion at humanity’s lack of knowledge about the Flood and Halo.
Despite Spark’s assertion in Halo 3 that “You ARE Forerunner”, I don’t believe that, by this point, Bungie intended to have humans and Forerunner be the same species. I would back this up by pointing out that we catch a glimpse of Requiem at the end of the Legendary ending in Halo 3. Clearly this was intended to set up the events of Halo 4 (and to a lesser extent, the Forerunner Saga books), which hinges on the reality that the Forerunners are a completely different species. Further, as far back as Halo: CE humans are referred to as “Reclaimers”. Why would Forerunner technology identify them as something other than Forerunners unless Bungie had intended all along that they should not be the same species?
All the evidence that people tout as proof that Bungie intended Forerunners and humans to be the same species from the beginning could just as easily be pointing towards some kind of special connection between the two species.
Did Bungie intend for humans and Forerunner to be the same species? There does not appear to be any definitive evidence either way. However, the circumstantial evidence and logic give a slight edge (in my mind, at least) towards the conclusion that Bungie intended, from the beginning, to have the two be completely different species that shared a particularly special connection.