Why are you entitled to map control?

Games Other Halo
1

You keep seeing “lack of map control” as a reason why Halo 4 is not a serious game.

Locking down a map so the other team rage quits, is that really a competitive thing?

There is a sense of entitlement in these posts, that map control is a birthright of the “competitive” player. Well, if you’re so competitive then why can’t you get map control in Halo 4?

Oh, that’s right. The settings aren’t stripped down enough. You need the game to be gutted first so you can dominate it.

Did you ever consider that 343 added unpredictable elements like ordinance drops to bump up the competition? The more you have to react to, the more competitive you have to be. Or, is that not how it works.

Isn’t life the ultimate game? It’s pretty random, but some people still find a way to dominate it.

2

In a sense, I definitely agree. The amount of people complaining about such things is astounding. Even on Exile, where everyone says Blue side is OP, I’ve never once won playing on Blue team.

EDIT: Holy frick, didn’t even read your part about ordanance. Get that crap out of here man. Random drops =/= skill or competitiveness.

3

I-
I don’t even know what to say.
Bravo,OP.You decreased my IQ.

4

When one team locks down a map completely and dominates the other team so bad that they rage quit, it is a failure of the matchmaking/ranking system to put the skilled team against another skilled team.

In Halo 2, 3, and even Reach, when two evenly skilled team fought, the way the game played out was so much different than the way it plays out in 4. It was so much better too. Engagements felt precises and calculated and it all came down to the skill and teamwork of one team being better than that of the other team.

You could look back on a match theatre and figure out what went wrong. (oh, we lost the initial engagement over the rockets and sniper rifle. Even though we reclaimed key tactical positions, we were losing 1v1 BR battles and the other team had more team shooting than we did).

In 4, you can have two evenly skilled teams fighting each other and the whole match usually comes down to which team the incineration cannon randomly spawns next to and which team gets the best ordinance drops.

Not to mention, camping is a winning tactic. You wait for them to come to you, you get the drop on them, kill them, and then get rewarded power weapons for doing so.

There is no such thing as “camping power weapons”. That is called holding off a key part of the map, and it was one of the many cherished tactical elements that even Reach managed to maintain.

5

> I-
> I don’t even know what to say.
> Bravo,OP.You decreased my IQ.

^Entitlement

6

> When one team locks down a map completely and dominates the other team so bad that they rage quit, it is a failure of the matchmaking/ranking system to put the skilled team against another skilled team.

What you’re describing is custom games. In custom games, you create the teams, and you know the balance is worthy. You made a great post, don’t get me wrong. I just think your expectations of computer matchmaking are unrealistic.

7

> Did you ever consider that 343 added unpredictable elements like ordinance drops to bump up the competition? The more you have to react to, the more competitive you have to be. Or, is that not how it works.

No, as a matter of fact that isn’t how it works.

High level competitive gameplay in Halo has always been about increasing the skill gap, and decreasing luck AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

Look at chess - hugely competitive game
Now look at monopoly - hugely luck based game

Which game has international tournaments on a regular basis?

Luck has NO place in competitive FPS, that’s the entire reason why in Halo Reach, the MLG playlist was set at ZERO bloom.

Whenever the MLG playlist hits H4, I GUARANTEE YOU there will not be random ordanance drops.

I’m going to go out of a limb and say that you don’t watch MLG AT ALL. Do you realize how many games I’ve seen in H3 end 49-50? You want to ruin that by throwing in random ordnance?

When the match is 45-45, then a guy on Red Team gets a Binary Rifle, then immediately gets a killing spree with it, can you REALLY say that Red Team was the better team, and NOT just the luckier team?

The entire point is finding out which team is BETTER, not which one has the better luck.

8

My problem with spawning and flow of the map is you spawn next to your teammates in bad cases like spawning out in the open just to get spawn killed in a match of swat.

9

Map Control wasn’t a entitlement. It was earned.

10

> > Did you ever consider that 343 added unpredictable elements like ordinance drops to bump up the competition? The more you have to react to, the more competitive you have to be. Or, is that not how it works.
>
> No, as a matter of fact that isn’t how it works.
>
> High level competitive gameplay in Halo has always been about increasing the skill gap, and decreasing luck AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
>
> Look at chess - hugely competitive game
> Now look at monopoly - hugely luck based game
>
> Which game has international tournaments on a regular basis?
>
> Luck has NO place in competitive FPS, that’s the entire reason why in Halo Reach, the MLG playlist was set at ZERO bloom.
>
> Whenever the MLG playlist hits H4, I GUARANTEE YOU there will not be random ordanance drops.
>
> I’m going to go out of a limb and say that you don’t watch MLG AT ALL. Do you realize how many games I’ve seen in H3 end 49-50? You want to ruin that by throwing in random ordnance?
>
> When the match is 45-45, then a guy on Red Team gets a Binary Rifle, then immediately gets a killing spree with it, can you REALLY say that Red Team was the better team, and NOT just the luckier team?
>
> The entire point is finding out which team is BETTER, not which one has the better luck.

I have watched 3 MLG tournaments in person. San Diego 2008, Anaheim 2009 and 2011, and I catch the live streams when they’re on. I also watch Ninja pretty often. So, I do know a bit about competitive Halo and settings.

You have decided that stripped-down settings = skill, and that more randomized elements = luck. That is your definition. It is not the official definition of anything, merely your biases. I believe that Ninja could play just as well with shipped Halo as he could on a gimped version of Halo that passes for competitive settings. He himself has said, shipped Halo is great.

The problem with some of you “competitive” players is, you just lack confidence in yourselves, so you want to strip away all variables that you can’t control. Using your chess analogy, you would take away half the pieces so the game was easier to wrap your head around. Grand master map control is very hard to achieve, because there are so many variables.

There is nothing lucky about placing a sniper shot to a guy’s head, or scattershot to his chest, even if it came from an ordinance drop. I don’t like all the armor abilities, like active camo, but the game doesn’t play itself when you have them. You still have to make the plays.

You have a gimped view of competition, so you want a gimped Halo to help you realize it. Are you really that competitive?

11

> You keep seeing “lack of map control” as a reason why Halo 4 is not a serious game.
>
> Locking down a map so the other team rage quits, is that really a competitive thing?
>
> There is a sense of entitlement in these posts, that map control is a birthright of the “competitive” player. Well, if you’re so competitive then why can’t you get map control in Halo 4?
>
> Oh, that’s right. The settings aren’t stripped down enough. You need the game to be gutted first so you can dominate it.
>
> Did you ever consider that 343 added unpredictable elements like ordinance drops to bump up the competition? The more you have to react to, the more competitive you have to be. Or, is that not how it works.
>
> Isn’t life the ultimate game? It’s pretty random, but some people still find a way to dominate it.

This mentality is completely astounding. You mean to tell me that you’re okay with 343i’s commitment to “take Halo back to its roots” and then produce something completely different than that? You might like the game…I hope you do. But don’t tell me that it’s a sense of “entitlement” to be upset about being misled. I’m entitled to only that which was promised in return for my $60 payment. I held up my end of that bargain. 343i did not.

12

I think the issue is that if another team has good team-work (I.E: Uses warthogs to their adventage, places snipers), they will do very well until say, I get an ordnance drop for a Concussion and completely destroy their vehicles.

13

Actually, it’s much easier to lock down a map than previous entries. Mainly due to the ordnance drops. You could have an entire team with Snipers and rockets in this game, whereas, past entries only allowed a few power weapons at a time(depending on the map, of course).

All you really need to do is look at Ragnarok. Hell you don’t even need a bunch of power weapons. If you’re up against a decently well organized team, you will most likely lose, due to the range of the DMR. No complaints against the weapon itself, it’s fantastic, just not the best map for the game.

Anyway, what I’m trying to say, it’s now too easy to lock down a map, and just camp out, whereas, in previous entries, you had to get power weapon control, and keep map control. Now the power weapons come to you.

Still a great game, very fun too, just frustrating at times.

14

There is nothing about how the maps are designed that lend itself to complete map control, which I feel 343i did on purpose. So good luck with any team/group trying to control a portion of the map.

15

> > You keep seeing “lack of map control” as a reason why Halo 4 is not a serious game.
> >
> > Locking down a map so the other team rage quits, is that really a competitive thing?
> >
> > There is a sense of entitlement in these posts, that map control is a birthright of the “competitive” player. Well, if you’re so competitive then why can’t you get map control in Halo 4?
> >
> > Oh, that’s right. The settings aren’t stripped down enough. You need the game to be gutted first so you can dominate it.
> >
> > Did you ever consider that 343 added unpredictable elements like ordinance drops to bump up the competition? The more you have to react to, the more competitive you have to be. Or, is that not how it works.
> >
> > Isn’t life the ultimate game? It’s pretty random, but some people still find a way to dominate it.
>
> This mentality is completely astounding. You mean to tell me that you’re okay with 343i’s commitment to “take Halo back to its roots” and then produce something completely different than that? You might like the game…I hope you do. But don’t tell me that it’s a sense of “entitlement” to be upset about being misled. I’m entitled to only that which was promised in return for my $60 payment. I held up my end of that bargain. 343i did not.

I do believe there are cheap elements to this game, like camo snipers.

But you should not be able to “control” a serious game. The map control complainers have it backwards.

16

> > When one team locks down a map completely and dominates the other team so bad that they rage quit, it is a failure of the matchmaking/ranking system to put the skilled team against another skilled team.
>
> What you’re describing is custom games. In custom games, you create the teams, and you know the balance is worthy. You made a great post, don’t get me wrong. I just think your expectations of computer matchmaking are unrealistic.

My expectations were set by a game that came out 8 years ago (Halo 2). My expectations are not too high. And so far, I think this game does a great job of matching me (alone) against others of my skill.

Where it fails is matching individuals vs stacked teams (parties) and if you play with a group of friends that vary in skill level, it matches you against players according to the person in your party that has the highest rank. This means I can’t play in any playlist with my casual friends because they can’t handle people of my skill.

Having a 1-50 rank and then averaging the scores in the party to find other players definitely worked the best. It wasn’t perfect but again, with today’s technology, it could be made near-perfect.

17

> You have decided that stripped-down settings = skill, and that <mark>more randomized elements = luck. That is your definition.</mark> It is not the official definition of anything, merely your biases. I believe that Ninja could play just as well with shipped Halo as he could on a gimped version of Halo that passes for competitive settings. He himself has said, shipped Halo is great.

If you can’t even ackowledge something so basic as randomness resulting in luck, you’re either trolling, or lack the capacity to understand the message I’m attempting to convey.

Leaving thread, suggest others do it as well.

18

I only rage quit once in CTF because my whole team quit and I was being spawn killed by mantises and power weapons…

19

> You keep seeing “lack of map control” as a reason why Halo 4 is not a serious game.
>
> Locking down a map so the other team rage quits, is that really a competitive thing?
>
> Yes it is because it shows that your team was able to organize as a team, set up as a team, out play and out skill the other team.
>
> There is a sense of entitlement in these posts, that map control is a birthright of the “competitive” player. Well, if you’re so competitive then why can’t you get map control in Halo 4?
>
> Because personal ordnance drops along with random global ordnance drops make it impossible for there to be any sort of “power position” on the map due to the possibility of a lesser team being rewarded with power weapons simply by securing a few kills or because a power weapon randomly spawns in a random location.
>
> Oh, that’s right. The settings aren’t stripped down enough. You need the game to be gutted first so you can dominate it.
>
> No, we just need the game to be less random and more balanced.
>
> Did you ever consider that 343 added unpredictable elements like ordinance drops to bump up the competition? The more you have to react to, the more competitive you have to be. Or, is that not how it works.
>
> Unpredicability does not equal competitiveness. It just causes more chaos and less organized combat which is the exact opposite of competition.
>
> Isn’t life the ultimate game? It’s pretty random, but some people still find a way to dominate it.
>
> The good competitive players will still dominate however it makes competitive gaming very random and less competitive. The only outcome from all the randomness is that the game becomes much more casual and the skill gap is much more narrow.

There you go.

20

> > You have decided that stripped-down settings = skill, and that <mark>more randomized elements = luck. That is your definition.</mark> It is not the official definition of anything, merely your biases. I believe that Ninja could play just as well with shipped Halo as he could on a gimped version of Halo that passes for competitive settings. He himself has said, shipped Halo is great.
>
> If you can’t even ackowledge something so basic as randomness resulting in luck, you’re either trolling, or lack the capacity to understand the message I’m attempting to convey.
>
> Leaving thread, suggest others do it as well.

Randomness and luck aren’t synonyms, no. Hope you left learning something!