Is there any particular reason why the 2 maps are remixed and very similar to the original 2? Are these 2 out of the 7 maps included in the beta? It seems a bit lazy if I am honest.
It feels like I am just playing the same maps over and over with a little bit of forge involved.
Hopefully there will be a wider variety in the beta and the actual game.
I think it was a great idea actually.
The remixed maps play very differently even though they reused a lot of the same assets. So we effectively get more maps. They will still create a lot of original maps, no worries.
It could have been the BR starts but I liked eden and regret more than empire and truth.
Likely due to the game being a year away and maps are still being made.
2 different feels of a visual look. I suggest you study up on how these maps are made if you feel this is the lazy way. You may learn a thing or two.
Some of the structures are interactive on Eden, if you shoot the canister on the side of the large pistons in the middle in front of the bases it goes up, allowing another jump up to the ramps. I makes me wonder what other interactive map elements there are.
They should have just added the maps to the playlist instead of replacing. Would have been easier to notice difference.
> 2603643534597848;5:
> 2 different feels of a visual look. I suggest you study up on how these maps are made if you feel this is the lazy way. You may learn a thing or two.
I am aware they are different but they are also similar. I suggest you could tone down the condescending attitude of your response.
If you are aware of how they are similar but different, why is there an accusation of laziness? If the maps are tuned for different weapon starts, why the accusation of laziness when laziness would be not having any variety at all?
If you know of The Sprint on the Halo Channel, why are you claiming there is minimal effort on these maps?
And you also throw out the “I hope the full game gets more variety.” when the reality is that we were told we would have 3 maps for the Beta and of those maps, 2 of them are remixed for different weapon start philosophies.
Are you sure I’m the one being condescending?
> 2603643534597848;9:
> If you are aware of how they are similar but different, why is there an accusation of laziness? If the maps are tuned for different weapon starts, why the accusation of laziness when laziness would be not having any variety at all?
> If you know of The Sprint on the Halo Channel, why are you claiming there is minimal effort on these maps?
>
> And you also throw out the “I hope the full game gets more variety.” when the reality is that we were told we would have 3 maps for the Beta and of those maps, 2 of them are remixed for different weapon start philosophies.
>
> Are you sure I’m the one being condescending?
Why is there any need for them to be similar at all, isn’t there supposed to be variety? Putting different weapons in it mixes it up a bit but not as much as a brand new map. I am aware this is a beta however, so things may obviously change.
I didn’t say minimal effort, I am sure there is a lot of effort in this game, it certainly seems it. Despite the effort it just appeared a bit lazy including maps that are similar to those that already in play.
I did get mixed up with the map number I admit I was wrong with that number so I apologise.
I called you condescending because of the way you replied in a manner that suggested my opinion was not valid.
> 2533274929308637;10:
> > 2603643534597848;9:
> > If you are aware of how they are similar but different, why is there an accusation of laziness? If the maps are tuned for different weapon starts, why the accusation of laziness when laziness would be not having any variety at all?
> > If you know of The Sprint on the Halo Channel, why are you claiming there is minimal effort on these maps?
> >
> > And you also throw out the “I hope the full game gets more variety.” when the reality is that we were told we would have 3 maps for the Beta and of those maps, 2 of them are remixed for different weapon start philosophies.
> >
> > Are you sure I’m the one being condescending?
>
>
> Why is there any need for them to be similar at all, isn’t there supposed to be variety? Putting different weapons in it mixes it up a bit but not as much as a brand new map. I am aware this is a beta however, so things may obviously change.
>
> I didn’t say minimal effort, I am sure there is a lot of effort in this game, it certainly seems it. Despite the effort it just appeared a bit lazy including maps that are similar to those that already in play.
>
> I did get mixed up with the map number I admit I was wrong with that number so I apologise.
>
> I called you condescending because of the way you replied in a manner that suggested my opinion was not valid.
… Why are you defending your claim of laziness by stating you didn’t mean it was a minimal effort? If your words are misinterpreted, perhaps different words are needed?
Now you want reasons why maps aren’t using different resources from each other?
One is the amount of code we have to install for these resources. The less resources we need to download, the quicker we can download.
Two is the refinement of resources, even for a Beta. The Beta is a chunk of near obsolete code and the more aesthetically different levels we have, the more refinement of resources by artists and other support staff are required. The 3 levels we have require less internal studio bodies to help maintain than 4.
Three is speculation how they are now able to build maps thanks to the XB1’s architecture. Before they had to compile code from the PC to the console to test it. That meant making “full” maps before testing on the console. Now they have the ability to play the code from the PC “near raw state,” even if it’s at a lower resolution because it’s not optimised, near instantly. So they can now mold maps more easily (Forge, shall we say) and with that, they can give us the same “skin” on different layouts in an easier manner.
As long as they do modify the skybox, I have no problems with them doing this because we really only have about 4-5 themes we go by, after that we modify the colours and stuff a little.
Four, lets not split hairs when calling all of Halo’s maps completely different from each other. There are many small round and square shaped maps that share A LOT of architectural similarities but many enthusiasts will tell you just how much the differences completely change the flow… Actually having different architecture is having more variety than changing the look. We have Reach and CEA’s remixed vs original maps to show for that. We have H2A’s maps to show for that.
> 2603643534597848;9:
> If you are aware of how they are similar but different, why is there an accusation of laziness? If the maps are tuned for different weapon starts, why the accusation of laziness when laziness would be not having any variety at all?
> If you know of The Sprint on the Halo Channel, why are you claiming there is minimal effort on these maps?
>
> And you also throw out the “I hope the full game gets more variety.” when the reality is that we were told we would have 3 maps for the Beta and of those maps, 2 of them are remixed for different weapon start philosophies.
Because it is just altering an already existing map (one of which is already an altered version of a past map: Midship) and not an inherently new one.
So far, what 343i has presented in the field maps is weak in my opinion.
I have to ask what is so “next gen” about them? In which way will they put “arena gameplay” to the next level? Where are the improvements after the negative criticism towards Halo 4’s maps? Where are the fresh and inspiring new concepts in map design in general?
I don’t say that they aren’t well tuned/balanced but sorry to me it seems now they run low on ideas, themes, creativity and depth in their conceptual design.
So far, they really just presented 2 maps (one of them a remake) and then an alternative version of each. Besides being personally disappointed with that all the feedback they, 343i, can gain with that is which version of Midship and the City Map people think plays better. In which way is that really helpful unless you don’t really plan on taking some big steps and introducing some new ideas in map design?
However, I think presenting 7 maps, all conceptually completely different from each other and at least 3 of them with truly fresh ideas/concepts in design is a much better presentation than 2 stereotypical Halo maps each with an slightly altered version, don’t you think?
So I am skeptical more than ever how the final map pool of H5 will look like.
> 2533274965837334;12:
> > 2603643534597848;9:
> >
Since this is the Arena Beta (and I prefer Invasion and BTB, btw), no I wouldn’t say we need 7 completely artistic takes on remade maps that can only be remakes as is since we have 5 other Halos, thousands of Forge maps AND with all that playtesting, a few known core ideals that work and those that don’t.
Would you not say to playtest the basics, we need a familiar map and a new map more so than we need everything to be new? If Halo is to be both familiar but new and at its core an Arena shooter for eSports… Do we not need something familiar, something new?
If the very idea of this Beta is to concentrate on the eSports portion of the game, how is it you can conceive such a bleak future for the other gamemodes that 343i has stated they will tell us about the closer we get to release?
Its a simple way to up map count, with out a lot of effort. That said, I’m liking EDEN FAR more then EMPIRE, you can move with out slamming your -Yoink- into a wall.
> 2603643534597848;11:
> > 2533274929308637;10:
> > > 2603643534597848;9:
> > > If you are aware of how they are similar but different, why is there an accusation of laziness? If the maps are tuned for different weapon starts, why the accusation of laziness when laziness would be not having any variety at all?
> > > If you know of The Sprint on the Halo Channel, why are you claiming there is minimal effort on these maps?
> > >
> > > And you also throw out the “I hope the full game gets more variety.” when the reality is that we were told we would have 3 maps for the Beta and of those maps, 2 of them are remixed for different weapon start philosophies.
> > >
> > > Are you sure I’m the one being condescending?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Why is there any need for them to be similar at all, isn’t there supposed to be variety? Putting different weapons in it mixes it up a bit but not as much as a brand new map. I am aware this is a beta however, so things may obviously change.
> >
> > I didn’t say minimal effort, I am sure there is a lot of effort in this game, it certainly seems it. Despite the effort it just appeared a bit lazy including maps that are similar to those that already in play.
> >
> > I did get mixed up with the map number I admit I was wrong with that number so I apologise.
> >
> > I called you condescending because of the way you replied in a manner that suggested my opinion was not valid.
>
>
>
> … Why are you defending your claim of laziness by stating you didn’t mean it was a minimal effort? If your words are misinterpreted, perhaps different words are needed?
>
> Now you want reasons why maps aren’t using different resources from each other?
> One is the amount of code we have to install for these resources. The less resources we need to download, the quicker we can download.
>
> Two is the refinement of resources, even for a Beta. The Beta is a chunk of near obsolete code and the more aesthetically different levels we have, the more refinement of resources by artists and other support staff are required. The 3 levels we have require less internal studio bodies to help maintain than 4.
>
> Three is speculation how they are now able to build maps thanks to the XB1’s architecture. Before they had to compile code from the PC to the console to test it. That meant making “full” maps before testing on the console. Now they have the ability to play the code from the PC “near raw state,” even if it’s at a lower resolution because it’s not optimised, near instantly. So they can now mold maps more easily (Forge, shall we say) and with that, they can give us the same “skin” on different layouts in an easier manner.
> As long as they do modify the skybox, I have no problems with them doing this because we really only have about 4-5 themes we go by, after that we modify the colours and stuff a little.
>
> Four, lets not split hairs when calling all of Halo’s maps completely different from each other. There are many small round and square shaped maps that share A LOT of architectural similarities but many enthusiasts will tell you just how much the differences completely change the flow… Actually having different architecture is having more variety than changing the look. We have Reach and CEA’s remixed vs original maps to show for that. We have H2A’s maps to show for that.
I am saying overall it is clear they have put effort into this game, however when it comes to this map situation it seems lazy. Please don’t tell me how my mind works.
I am also more worried about the final game ending up with few maps with these variants to make the numbers. Hopefully it is just the case for the beta and the final game has more variety, which is what I said earlier.
I Like Truth better than Regret, but I like Eden better than Empire.
> 2533274873910058;4:
> Likely due to the game being a year away and maps are still being made.
Wrong… they’ve been working on this game a lot longer than you seem to believe. This game is much further along than you seem to think. This beta is more about marketing than it is about testing. If you don’t believe me, I suggest you ask a developer for yourself and see what they say.
> 2533274805604025;7:
> They should have just added the maps to the playlist instead of replacing. Would have been easier to notice difference.
Or they would’ve showcased just how similar they actually are. I agree with the OP here. I noticed how similar Truth and Eden were the first time I saw a 10 second gameplay clip of Eden after having played Truth in the early access period. I immediately noticed how similar Empire was compared to Regret when I first played Regret.
I’m not saying it’s laziness, because I don’t know how many total unique maps there will be. Still, I have no problem saying it’s concerning to see the first 4 maps essentially be 2 maps, each with their own remixed version to cater toward either AR or BR starts.
> 2533274792797002;17:
> > 2533274873910058;4:
> > Likely due to the game being a year away and maps are still being made.
>
>
> Wrong… they’ve been working on this game a lot longer than you seem to believe. This game is much further along than you seem to think. This beta is more about marketing than it is about testing. If you don’t believe me, I suggest you ask a developer for yourself and see what they say.
> 2603643534597848;13:
> > 2533274965837334;12:
> > > 2603643534597848;9:
> > >
>
>
>
>
> Since this is the Arena Beta (and I prefer Invasion and BTB, btw), no I wouldn’t say we need 7 completely artistic takes on remade maps that can only be remakes as is since we have 5 other Halos, thousands of Forge maps AND with all that playtesting, a few known core ideals that work and those that don’t.
>
> Would you not say to playtest the basics, we need a familiar map and a new map more so than we need everything to be new? If Halo is to be both familiar but new and at its core an Arena shooter for eSports… Do we not need something familiar, something new?
>
> If the very idea of the Beta is to concentrate on the eSports portion of the game, how is it you can conceive such a bleak future for the other gamemodes that 343i has stated they will tell us about the closer we get to release?
In regards to your first paragraph either I have trouble understanding what you are trying to say or there happened a misunderstanding.
What I would have very liked to see are 7 (only because they announced 7, could have definitely been a bit less as well) individual and new maps (in regards to general conceptual design, not aesthetics which could in case simply be reused to save time if really needed since the maps would be completely different in their form and construction) and a few out of the 7 introducing completely fresh and new “next-gen-concepts” (i.e: dynamic maps which change their layouts/forms/certain areas on certain intervals, changing environmental traits perhaps also on certain intervals, or simply just a new “map form” never seen before in Halo to put it bluntly).
When basics are already drastically changed I think it is better to make new maps which inherently incorporate said new basics in the design right from the start instead of trying to alter an old map to complement them.
Granted I have never been a Midship fan but making the middle even more open as a result to work with the new movement stuff, mainly sprint, might complemented the new abilities but didn’t do the map’s gameplay any good, in my opinion.
I mainly would have liked that because I think maps can form and influence Halo’s arena gameplay much much more and deeper than some new base player abilities and therefore I think presenting a proper variety of maps would have been important to allow a better grasp of how this game can play, especially with all that new stuff and not so subtle changes in many main characteristics of Halo.
And I don’t have a bleak future to all upcoming gamemodes but if this is all they have in mind and store for “arena maps” then, yeah well, I am definitely not impressed nor really content with the arena section of this game.