I chat with people in Twitch chats while the host is playing MCC, or I chat with my friends on Xbox LIVE, and there is one big thing that is apparent with them regarding the new direction 343 (and originally Bungie) is taking with Halo. Other than the fact Halo 4 didnt do well because…well…we all know why (I still enjoyed it), Halo 5 appears to be doing what 343 failed to do with Halo 4: expand the depth and skill base of the original games and add more variation to gunplay through abilities. My question is this: Why are many players simply close minded about even the slightest change, no matter if its good or bad? The opposite happens with the Call of Duty developers: Infinity Ward, Treyarch, and Sledgehammer. They keep the games pretty much the same thing, and most of the CoD vets look at it like its brand new, when it truly isnt. Its a carbon copy of multiple past CoD games, or, like AW and the upcoming Black Ops III, a combination of CoD and Titanfall, for heavens’ sake. When the old and new players see a tiny difference, they hate it. Personally, I absolutely hate how similar and copy-paste CoD has become. Halo, while seemingly similar to CoD and what not, really isnt the same thing. Yet people still seem to become close minded to ANYTHING new or different regarding Halo.
I appolgize if past OPs have been made about this subject, but I havent read any in a long while, or ever.
For me, Im excited for Halo 5’s potential to be a great game. the Abilities may not be totally original, but they are much better implemented than Halo 4s abilities. Its not a carbon copy of Halo CE-3, which is what many players want (and which blows my mind why…). Its something new to learn.
Because change is different, most people don’t like different they like familiarity and when you change that familiarity everyone loses their minds. Unless like me you’re the odd one out and mentally different we thrive on change.
What people fail to see or rather they simply cannot imagine are the various alternative H5s (or Halo’s in general) that could have basically existed and could have being liked or disliked by people.
Eventually you have only 343i’s idea of H5 now. And people decide if they like it or not. The people that like it agree that this is the way to go but cannot imagine how a different way/approach could have looked like.
The people that don’t like it don’t agree with this way but cannot imagine how a different way/approach could have looked like either.
As a result the people contra can only say that Halo X was better than 343i’s H5 and the people pro take this as „let’s do Halo X again, exactly like it was“, simply because the people contra cannot offer an alternative H5/sequel that is actually materialistic enough so the people pro can compare it to 343i’s and judge it and decide if they would like that more or not or equally.
What it boils down to is that most people simply cannot judge things when they are only in concept. They simply lack the imagination for that.
Good recent example for this are:
The reactions of people to thrusters as a default ability pre H5 gameplay and now.
The reactions of people to giving zoom an ADS aesthetic pre H5 gameplay and now.
Because Halo is a good stuff (my opinion: best FPS in consoles) only need be polished and evolved but never changed.
When you change Halo you have just another thing. I think people who need changes in Halo MP just need a new IP.
As an example of change being implemented where I hated it, I’d say Advanced Warfare permanently put me off Call of Duty. The speed of that game was just ridiculous when you die with just 3 shots. Although, I had grown tired of the franchise by the time MW3 came around. It hit it’s peak with WaW, and is still a very, very good game. Franchise fatigue killed CoD for me, but after Halo 3 I was raring to play Halo 4. I love everything about the original trilogy, but Reach and 4 seemed to be pushing to attract a wider audience; don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed both of them, but I wasn’t bored with Halo 3’s mechanics. I wanted more of the same because franchise fatigue hadn’t settled in.
I understand that 343 need to make as much money as possible to keep afloat, and it kills me that they changed a winning formula, but I’ve said many times that it’s best to play the completed Halo 5 before we pass judgement.
> 2533274812471748;7:
> Because Halo is a good stuff (my opinion: best FPS in consoles) only need be polished and evolved but never changed.
> When you change Halo you have just another thing. I think people who need changes in Halo MP just need a new IP.
I would just like you clarify something for me please but what exactly do you mean when you say it needed to evolve? As to me evolution is change?
You can improve on the gameplay without changing how it played example Halo2 to Halo3. There’s no denying that Halo3 improved on Halo2, it felt different but played the same. Evolution doesn’t mean you totally change the game and that’s what I feel is what people hate about where this series is going + they aren’t innovating, they’re just straight ripping features from more popular fps
> 2533274805386380;1:
> I chat with people in Twitch chats while the host is playing MCC, or I chat with my friends on Xbox LIVE, and there is one big thing that is apparent with them regarding the new direction 343 (and originally Bungie) is taking with Halo. Other than the fact Halo 4 didnt do well because…well…we all know why (I still enjoyed it), Halo 5 appears to be doing what 343 failed to do with Halo 4: expand the depth and skill base of the original games and add more variation to gunplay through abilities. My question is this: Why are many players simply close minded about even the slightest change, no matter if its good or bad? The opposite happens with the Call of Duty developers: Infinity Ward, Treyarch, and Sledgehammer. They keep the games pretty much the same thing, and most of the CoD vets look at it like its brand new, when it truly isnt. Its a carbon copy of multiple past CoD games, or, like AW and the upcoming Black Ops III, a combination of CoD and Titanfall, for heavens’ sake. When the old and new players see a tiny difference, they hate it. Personally, I absolutely hate how similar and copy-paste CoD has become. Halo, while seemingly similar to CoD and what not, really isnt the same thing. Yet people still seem to become close minded to ANYTHING new or different regarding Halo.
>
> I appolgize if past OPs have been made about this subject, but I havent read any in a long while, or ever.
>
> For me, Im excited for Halo 5’s potential to be a great game. the Abilities may not be totally original, but they are much better implemented than Halo 4s abilities. Its not a carbon copy of Halo CE-3, which is what many players want (and which blows my mind why…). Its something new to learn.
As it was explained in a previous thread the removal of beloved features especially those that are the pivoting points of a thriving community apparently “just because” is not positive change…like when Bio ware wanted to remove NG+ from ME 2 pretty release because “trust us we are gonna have new features that will feel like NG+ but not be NG+…but yeah you will grind from level 1 each time and lose all your gear kthmxbai”
> 2535416383459646;9:
> > 2533274812471748;7:
> > Because Halo is a good stuff (my opinion: best FPS in consoles) only need be polished and evolved but never changed.
> > When you change Halo you have just another thing. I think people who need changes in Halo MP just need a new IP.
>
>
> I would just like you clarify something for me please but what exactly do you mean when you say it needed to evolve? As to me evolution is change?
Evolve and change means same in english? sorry english isnt my native language.
My point is halo need be polished for get better but keeping DNA Halo,Clamber isnt DNA halo, Sprint isnt DNA halo, guns down isnt DNA halo, small jumps isnt DNA halo…
No high jumps and tricky jumps worked perfect, who need clamber? Why?
H3 feels slowly? Boost speed base.
H3 proyectile system wasnt good? Well, back to H2 hitscan system. (slow speed base was it balance)
Is about to get a perfect and polished game, not about fashion changes.
> 2535412557004575;10:
> You can improve on the gameplay without changing how it played example Halo2 to Halo3. There’s no denying that Halo3 improved on Halo2, it felt different but played the same. Evolution doesn’t mean you totally change the game and that’s what I feel is what people hate about where this series is going + they aren’t innovating, they’re just straight ripping features from more popular fps
> 2535412557004575;10:
> You can improve on the gameplay without changing how it played example Halo2 to Halo3. There’s no denying that Halo3 improved on Halo2, it felt different but played the same. Evolution doesn’t mean you totally change the game and that’s what I feel is what people hate about where this series is going + they aren’t innovating, they’re just straight ripping features from more popular fps
I understand what you are trying to get at I think, but I disagree that Halo 2 and Halo 3 played the same in a way they did I suppose but the changes to the BR and the addition of equipment essentially completely changed the way both games are played. I also disagree that Halo 3 changed for the better I feel personally Halo 2 was the overall better game but that is just my personal preference and opinion.
> 2533274947876607;5:
> Not so much close-minded more like stuck in nostalsia
This. Some people really just don’t want to move on or try something new from what they originally played. I am 38 and have been playing Halo for well over 10+ years and I have loved the change from the originals. Especially sprint. That has easily been one of the most welcomed features IMO to the series. Its painful to go back to the other series and walk around the map. Just makes no sense having a super soldier, walking. lol How about getting touched by a vehicle in Halo CE and dying instantly. A nightmare. The games were so much fun for their time but they are so much better now.
I am glad the series has evolved. I understand nostalgia, but I do feel bad for those that are “Stuck” in nostalgia. Imagine never having forge or the file share system. Or never being able to play co-op online with friends or family.
Mostly it’s due to nostalgia I think. People experienced any Halo game in a certain way and ejoyed it so much that they want to have that exact experience again. Though with change that’s never going to happen, so naturally they’d want less of it.
I for one welcome change as I don’t want to play the same thing over and over again.
It’s all about balancing out the things that you change and the things you’d like to keep the same. Too less change means stale gameplay, too much change means that we might not even recognise Halo anymore.
> 2787272447958470;15:
> > 2533274947876607;5:
> > Not so much close-minded more like stuck in nostalsia
>
>
> This. Some people really just don’t want to move on or try something new from what they originally played. I am 38 and have been playing Halo for well over 10+ years and I have loved the change from the originals. Especially sprint. That has easily been one of the most welcomed features IMO to the series. Its painful to go back to the other series and walk around the map. Just makes no sense having a super soldier, walking. lol How about getting touched by a vehicle in Halo CE and dying instantly. A nightmare. The games were so much fun for their time but they are so much better now.
>
> I am glad the series has evolved. I understand nostalgia, but I do feel bad for those that are “Stuck” in nostalgia. Imagine never having forge or the file share system. Or never being able to play co-op online with friends or family.
This. so much this.
But another thing I observed in halo and other game series. Is that it isn’t only nostalgia, but game skill. People who were extremely good in halo 2 and 3 get killed easily on halo Halo Reach and 4 by people they considered scrubs on their game of choice. Then they preach that the game was made for casuals and that there is no skill gap, Which playing the Halo 4 playlist and seeing people who reach close to 50 on twitch, there is a skill gap on halo 4 and boy can it be large if you know how to use the abilities and know the game like those who master the earlier games, basically destroying that statement.
Basically it was a game that changed enough of the core gameplay that it felt completely foreign to them and that they had to start back from square one unlike the change from Halo 2 and 3 where transition wasn’t that big at all. So you have all these “Pros” who are now at the same or slightly better then those around them in a match and they start getting killed a lot more then ever before and they hate it. Because they were gods in the past, and now they live the life of a mortal again. It messes with them and causes them to hate any kind of change that may affect their stats of a god. So they’ll oppose it to the end of time.
What I see with many games as of late when any solid franchise tries to add change to a game
> 2535416383459646;14:
> > 2535412557004575;10:
> > You can improve on the gameplay without changing how it played example Halo2 to Halo3. There’s no denying that Halo3 improved on Halo2, it felt different but played the same. Evolution doesn’t mean you totally change the game and that’s what I feel is what people hate about where this series is going + they aren’t innovating, they’re just straight ripping features from more popular fps
>
>
> I understand what you are trying to get at I think, but I disagree that Halo 2 and Halo 3 played the same in a way they did I suppose but the changes to the BR and the addition of equipment essentially completely changed the way both games are played. I also disagree that Halo 3 changed for the better I feel personally Halo 2 was the overall better game but that is just my personal preference and opinion.
Yes, the equipment and how the Battle Rifle acted gave it a fresher feel, projectiles over hitscan etc but the core wasn’t changed. Can you truly say that from Halo3 to reach? I personally don’t think you can. Reach changed the gameplay and how you played it. From reach to Halo4 that’s a similar transition because they’re one and the same and Halo5 is going deeper into the rabbit hole and I think a lot of the older guys(or players that prefer the classic play style) have lost their patience and we’re seeing a lot more of these topics. All opinion of course.
> 2787272447958470;15:
> > 2533274947876607;5:
> > Not so much close-minded more like stuck in nostalsia
>
>
> This. Some people really just don’t want to move on or try something new from what they originally played. I have been playing Halo for well over 10+ years and I have loved the change from the originals. Especially sprint. That has easily been one of the most welcomed features IMO to the series. Its painful to go back to the other series and walk around the map. How about getting touched by a vehicle in Halo CE and dying instantly. A nightmare.
>
> I am glad the series has evolved. I understand nostalgia, but I do feel bad for those that are “Stuck” in nostalgia.
“Stuck in nostalgia” really is just an excuse for someone who can’t understand that there are, in fact, genuine, legitimate reasons to dislike the new features. They have been discussed in hundreds of threads where plenty of people have given detailed explanations for why they don’t like the new features. It’s not difficult to understand that different people play for different reasons, and therefore have different expectations of what they think the game should be.
Moreover, people may have fundamentally different views on gameplay design. You may think that a game series changing drastically from one game to the next is a good thing, but somebody else may think that a game series is ultimately bound buy its gameplay, and if a developer wants to create something completely different, they’d be better of designing a game that has no relation to the previous. These are two different game design philosophies, and neither is in any way better than the other, they’re just different.
People are complicated. As much as it may satisfy your own world view, other people’s motives never reduce to something as simple as “nostalgia”. That’s just your brain’s way of simplifying it to fit your world view. So please, can we all just respect each other, and accept that everyone here has their own, complicated reasons to like and dislike different things? Is that too much asked?
> 2533274803137071;17:
> > 2787272447958470;15:
> > > 2533274947876607;5:
> > > Not so much close-minded more like stuck in nostalsia
> >
> >
> > This. Some people really just don’t want to move on or try something new from what they originally played. I am 38 and have been playing Halo for well over 10+ years and I have loved the change from the originals. Especially sprint. That has easily been one of the most welcomed features IMO to the series. Its painful to go back to the other series and walk around the map. Just makes no sense having a super soldier, walking. lol How about getting touched by a vehicle in Halo CE and dying instantly. A nightmare. The games were so much fun for their time but they are so much better now.
> >
> > I am glad the series has evolved. I understand nostalgia, but I do feel bad for those that are “Stuck” in nostalgia. Imagine never having forge or the file share system. Or never being able to play co-op online with friends or family.
>
>
> This. so much this.
>
> But another thing I observed in halo and other game series. Is that it isn’t only nostalgia, but game skill. People who were extremely good in halo 2 and 3 get killed easily on halo Halo Reach and 4 by people they considered scrubs on their game of choice. Then they preach that the game was made for casuals and that there is no skill gap, Which playing the Halo 4 playlist and seeing people who reach close to 50 on twitch, there is a skill gap on halo 4 and boy can it be large if you know how to use the abilities and know the game like those who master the earlier games, basically destroying that statement.
>
> Basically it was a game that changed enough of the core gameplay that it felt completely foreign to them and that they had to start back from square one unlike the change from Halo 2 and 3 where transition wasn’t that big at all. So you have all these “Pros” who are now at the same or slightly better then those around them in a match and they start getting killed a lot more then ever before and they hate it. Because they were gods in the past, and now they live the life of a mortal again. It messes with them and causes them to hate any kind of change that may affect their stats of a god. So they’ll oppose it to the end of time.
>
> What I see with many games as of late when any solid franchise tries to add change to a game