Disagree with the premise of neglect. They’ve given us a very forward-looking schedule of rotational playlists, and of course they provide the usual tweaks you read about in the weekly bulletin. This is as good as it gets for most peers with corresponding population counts.
Wouldn’t you rather they throw everyone into Halo 5at this point, anyway? I’m counting on Halo 5 to impress so I’m totally fine with the level of sustain they are providing for Halo 4.
I hate to break it down to anyone who thinks that Halo 5 is gonna go back to being old school halo. But… it’s just not going to happen. Sprint is going to remain, AA’s are going to remain, powerups and other arena shooter like qualities aren’t returning. 343 Industries has made it perfectly clear numerous times that the old school arena shooter is not their vision of what Halo will be for now on. Now Halo 5 will most likely won’t have as many bugs or glitches as Halo 4 did and probably will have better maps. However; if your expectation of Halo being fixed means going back to the old days of arena shooters like Quake or UT. Then you might as well as go play those games and leave Halo behind.
343 has done plenty of supporting for halo 4. They are still doing things with halo 4. Just because they are not giving us every little thing we ask for doesn’t mean they are not supporting halo 4.
To be honest there isn’t much left they can actually do with halo 4 without majorly changing the product they released. Which i don’t see them doing a year down the line especially when it would cost them more money then it’s worth.
> 343 has done plenty of supporting for halo 4. They are still doing things with halo 4. Just because they are not giving us every little thing we ask for doesn’t mean they are not supporting halo 4.
>
>
> To be honest there isn’t much left they can actually do with halo 4 without majorly changing the product they released. Which i don’t see them doing a year down the line especially when it would cost them more money then it’s worth.
Playlist fixes do not cost 343 money and 90% of feedback is related to playlist tweaks.
> > 343 has done plenty of supporting for halo 4. They are still doing things with halo 4. Just because they are not giving us every little thing we ask for doesn’t mean they are not supporting halo 4.
> >
> >
> > To be honest there isn’t much left they can actually do with halo 4 without majorly changing the product they released. Which i don’t see them doing a year down the line especially when it would cost them more money then it’s worth.
>
> Playlist fixes do not cost 343 money and 90% of feedback is related to playlist tweaks.
Not really, 90% of feedback is related to Halo no longer being an arena shooter and/or about the AA’s and other things that will not be removed.
> > > 343 has done plenty of supporting for halo 4. They are still doing things with halo 4. Just because they are not giving us every little thing we ask for doesn’t mean they are not supporting halo 4.
> > >
> > >
> > > To be honest there isn’t much left they can actually do with halo 4 without majorly changing the product they released. Which i don’t see them doing a year down the line especially when it would cost them more money then it’s worth.
> >
> > Playlist fixes do not cost 343 money and 90% of feedback is related to playlist tweaks.
>
> Not really, 90% of feedback is related to Halo no longer being an arena shooter and/or about the AA’s and other things that will not be removed.
You need to spend more time in the War Games Feedback forum if you think that.
I’m saying in general across all gaming forums, not just this one. Most of the “criticisms” is mostly just ranting that the game didn’t go back to old school arena shooter style of play. Considering how badly UT3 flopped and Quake I can see why 343 wouldn’t want Halo to remain an arena shooter.
Excuse me while I throw my 2 cents in (sorry for the lengthy reply)-
Ive been with the Halo franchise since day 1 - in fact If you look at my gaming record I barely play anything else. Does that make me a bigger fan than the other? Nay. But im pretty damn passionate about it and was really excited for Halo 4 - I was even intervied at 343i for a job before Halo 4 began production. During the entire interview I had no idea what project they were hiring me for and they refused to tell me even though they flew me out there. Long story short - after being interview for 4 hours by more than 8 people, I was left with a very bad taste in my mouth. The main dude was actually pretty rude and wouldnt even give me his business card. I have no hard feelings now, but still; a part of me is glad I didnt end up there even though I dreamed of working on a Halo something or other 
Anyways, back on topic of neglect -
My conclusion of the way 343i is handling things regarding the change that Halo fans are seeking seems more in line of arrogance. Its pretty blatant seeing that they havent tried to make things better and it almost feels like its on purpose. The whole “Rotational Playlist” thing is, IMO, pointless and making the community more frustrated. I say this because they are giving us playlists we have been asking for for months and they decide to do it…butttt then take it away after a couple weeks so that they can (qoute from 343) “enhance the overall health of matchmaking” When in fact its doing the opposite. Personally it pisses me off. I switched back over to Halo Reach a couple weeks ago because frankly, I missed the multiplayer fun I had with it. It was more caotic, better blend of playlist options and gametypes, matchmaking was faster, and your enemies felt more evenly matched, this helped due to the fact that there isnt any random weapon drops that would happen to be a Incineration canon where you would immediatly lose if you only had a pistol… and overall its been more fun. At one point after about 2 weeks I was like ok, im done, and switched back to Halo 4 and immediatly noticed a slower experience and scoffed when I saw they took out Multi-Team. THE FUUU?! I played 2 games and went back to Halo Reach.
Its a shame to be honest. I wanted 343i to hit a homerun with this game. The creative parts of the game as far as the looks - textures, lighting, models, everything looked fantastic. But the multiplayer experience has been, well, poo poo; and it is evident how people feel about it from the number of people playing.
Sorry for the long post.
PS: Im for making these rotational playlists PERMANENT instead of temporary…
I find myself agreeing to the gist of what the last post said which was to make playlists permanent. I think that would make for a much more enjoyable experience, but now you have to deal with the fact that some gametypes can’t be played as a result at least often. Also you would have to make a grab bag playlist so there still can be those gametypes that 343i apparently still wants people to play. I think people would be happy with:
Big Team Battle social
Living Dead social
Action Sack social
5v5 slayer social
Throwdown - Ranked
and a playlist grouping extraction, conversion and dominion. -either
This is of course just my opinion, but really these are the playlists that attract the most fans others aren’t really necessary.
Also infinity settings are just bad, you should be able to select two primary guns a rifle and an automatic maybe just one for the smaller player count games. I don’t really think an ammo cap on regular guns is necessary so you can have ammo perk defaulted and because you have two primaries without the need for firepower that leaves room for resupply so the perks are filled and keep people spawning with frags its ridiculous for people to spawn with stickies. However weapon skins and different armor are cool those should just keep coming because as long as there aren’t too many locked behind dlc its fine
> I suggest you take a moment to read this Opinion: Player Metrics Vs. The Vocal Minority .
Thank you for posting this article. I did take the time to read it, and I do believe it poses some interesting questions. I do want to comment on the examples he puts up from the article:
> Example 1: There was a virtual riot (complete with organized virtual protests) in Realm of the Mad God when we changed the range of projectiles.
>
> Suddenly, players who could no longer kill enemies far off screen could, because projectiles went half as far. We did this because a group of players had decided to primarily play using the mini-map and onscreen tactics were going extinct. There were many complaints about how the game was completely broken.
>
> <mark>Yet fun scores and retention increased. Within a week or two of the change, people had moved on to talking about something else.</mark>
First off in this example this has not held true for Halo 4, because retention has lowered, and the same topics are being discussed. I have been following these forums and other sources and it seems to me the same theme holds true. Halo 4 was a big miss, and is more about casual fun which is something that the majority is not interested in.
> Example 2: In Triple Town, experienced developers whom we show the game think that the turn system is a mistake. Traditional core players complain about the microtransaction system. Kindle players dislike the fact that this isn’t a one time price for all you can eat.
>
> So one of the very first things we did was test how big an impact purchasing turns had on the player experience. The simple answer is that it doesn’t seem to alter short term retention or fun scores. We are still collecting long term retention data (the game just launched), but it is immensely obvious that the big huge overwhelming issues facing the game have nothing to do with the primary complaint of the most vocal players. <mark>Our biggest issue is the first 200 turn experience around the tutorial. This is something that not a single player or review has mentioned.</mark>
I believe the biggest issues of the game have been mentioned an repeatedly talked about by players and reviewers.
> Example 3: In Realm of the Mad God, a small change was made to how a key for unlocking a special dungeon worked. This resulted in a massive fervor on the forums. A group of players was using these rare items as both a means of storing wealth and as a method of controlling who received rare drops. Since this group is the most dominant group on the forums, they created a large discussion about how the game was floundering.
>
> <mark>Again, the metrics showed either no change or a positive change. On deeper investigation, the elite group essentially was using their economic power to dissuade the majority of the players from accessing top end content. There was indeed something very meaningful going on (players really want to self organize into smaller groups and control who is in the group and who is out of the group), but it was occurring in a dysfunctional fashion.</mark>
I don’t really see either of these things happening here. First there really hasn’t been a positive change, unless you consider a lower than normal population number, but retention of new players a positive. Plus I don’t see the vocal majority that is on these forums trying to push out the views of the minority. In fact I see them trying to integrate their, meaning the vocal minority, ideas for the next Halo.
> and really, why cater to the people who aren’t going to play your game instead of the people who would? It was a huge problem I had with the title update for Reach, appealing to the people who admitted that they didn’t and would never play the game again instead of the people who loved playing what Reach was. Now look at the playlists, aside from BTB all playlists with the title update are dead. Barely managing to get a dozen players at any one time.
Now, I see where you are coming from here. I was a proponent of not changing Reach, and was fascinated by the fact that when the change did occur, that not as many people actually participated in those playlists as I thought were going to. However, just like with anything, there are other factors that are involved that cannot be dismissed. I don’t really think it should come down to, “well we shouldn’t listen to the vocal majority, since they aren’t the ones still playing”. Don’t they want to bring those players back somehow as well?
Basically, I think it comes down to trying to satisfy as many different kinds of Halo players as possible; and if we realize that to its fullest, we might understand 343i’s daunting task a little better. My main issue is with 343i right now is not fixing some of the issues in the first place, and continuously making, in my opinion, odd decisions. I still have faith though, and I will still keep voicing my opinion whether it be a popular one or not, and whether 343i takes it into account or not.
> I hate to break it down to anyone who thinks that Halo 5 is gonna go back to being old school halo. But… it’s just not going to happen. Sprint is going to remain, AA’s are going to remain, powerups and other arena shooter like qualities aren’t returning. 343 Industries has made it perfectly clear numerous times that the old school arena shooter is not their vision of what Halo will be for now on. Now Halo 5 will most likely won’t have as many bugs or glitches as Halo 4 did and probably will have better maps. However; if your expectation of Halo being fixed means going back to the old days of arena shooters like Quake or UT. Then you might as well as go play those games and leave Halo behind.
I was just wondering if you had a source for your statement. You seem pretty sure of yourself with this, and I figured that was because you read an article with an interview by an employee that backs this up. Or are you just going by your hopes?
> I hate to break it down to anyone who thinks that Halo 5 is gonna go back to being old school halo. But… it’s just not going to happen. Sprint is going to remain, AA’s are going to remain, powerups and other arena shooter like qualities aren’t returning. 343 Industries has made it perfectly clear numerous times that the old school arena shooter is not their vision of what Halo will be for now on. Now Halo 5 will most likely won’t have as many bugs or glitches as Halo 4 did and probably will have better maps. However; if your expectation of Halo being fixed means going back to the old days of arena shooters like Quake or UT. Then you might as well as go play those games and leave Halo behind.
I’m not sure what you’ve been reading, but 343 have stated numerous times they will be returning to the roots of Halo. Now this doesn’t mean the complete removal of Sprint and AA’s but I can guarantee that if they do return, it will be to social playlists only. For me the return of AA’s with the exception of a few (I’m sure they will remove Camo, PV and Jetpack) is a welcome for social play as myself and other casual players enjoy using them. Whether Sprint should return or not is highly opinionated. I personally would prefer it would not return, however many players want it in social play, and as long as maps are not built with Sprint in mind, I couldn’t really care less should it be brought back to social play. Many small arena styled maps such as Sanctuary and Haven play almost perfect with Sprint anyway.
I don’t see why some people are so cynical. They made mistakes with Halo 4 but have done so much to correct them. It’s clear they’re listening (though sometimes arguable as stated on page 1) and they have already confirmed several facts such as Spectator mode for Halo 5.
> I personally would prefer it would not return, however many players want it in social play, and as long as maps are not built with Sprint in mind, I couldn’t really care less should it be brought back to social play. Many small arena styled maps such as Sanctuary and Haven play almost perfect with Sprint anyway.
I am not trying to turn this into a Sprint debate, but I highly disagree here. First off maps NEED to be made with Sprint in mind, and second Sanctuary and Haven would play a lot better without Sprint. I really appreciate his explanation here: Ghandi’s Thoughts #62 Sprint vs. No Sprint. I think he makes a very good point at 4:22-5:10. I do encourage you to listen to the whole thing. He opened my eyes to some things, since I have been one of those players who started with Reach and used Sprint exclusively.
I would like it for Sprint to be a pickup, but I doubt that will happen. It seems like it has been around for long enough now that it will at least be included in a Social Slayer setting.
> and really, why cater to the people who aren’t going to play your game instead of the people who would? It was a huge problem I had with the title update for Reach, appealing to the people who admitted that they didn’t and would never play the game again instead of the people who loved playing what Reach was. Now look at the playlists, aside from BTB all playlists with the title update are dead. Barely managing to get a dozen players at any one time.
Oh and I found this too.
> But the most important aspect of our success, and our efforts now and in the future, has been this community – a demanding, imaginative, engaged, vocal, varied and intelligent swarm of personalities, groups and individuals, each with subtly to radically different interests in this vast and varied universe we’re charged with. That isn’t lip service, nor is it pandering. You guys pay for the privilege of playing our game, and you have every right to have a voice in its development.
From Halo Bulletin 1.9.13
It seems they do care, and monitor what the community is voicing about the game. I think the key part there is, “…and you have every right to have a voice in its development”. I am glad I searched around and re-read this. Once again I have hope for the future.
> I’m not sure what you’ve been reading, but 343 have stated numerous times they will be returning to the roots of Halo.
I have never seen this regarding multiplayer specifically. If you could provide a source, that would be great.
> > I hate to break it down to anyone who thinks that Halo 5 is gonna go back to being old school halo. But… it’s just not going to happen. Sprint is going to remain, AA’s are going to remain, powerups and other arena shooter like qualities aren’t returning. 343 Industries has made it perfectly clear numerous times that the old school arena shooter is not their vision of what Halo will be for now on. Now Halo 5 will most likely won’t have as many bugs or glitches as Halo 4 did and probably will have better maps. However; if your expectation of Halo being fixed means going back to the old days of arena shooters like Quake or UT. Then you might as well as go play those games and leave Halo behind.
>
> I’m not sure what you’ve been reading, but 343 have stated numerous times they will be returning to the roots of Halo. Now this doesn’t mean the complete removal of Sprint and AA’s but I can guarantee that if they do return, it will be to social playlists only. For me the return of AA’s with the exception of a few (I’m sure they will remove Camo, PV and Jetpack) is a welcome for social play as myself and other casual players enjoy using them. Whether Sprint should return or not is highly opinionated. I personally would prefer it would not return, however many players want it in social play, and as long as maps are not built with Sprint in mind, I couldn’t really care less should it be brought back to social play. Many small arena styled maps such as Sanctuary and Haven play almost perfect with Sprint anyway.
>
> I don’t see why some people are so cynical. They made mistakes with Halo 4 but have done so much to correct them. It’s clear they’re listening (though sometimes arguable as stated on page 1) and they have already confirmed several facts such as Spectator mode for Halo 5.
God, I hope not. I actually enjoy the play of Halo 4 a heck of a lot more than I do/did Halo 3. The somewhat random weapon drops, the available AA’s, loadouts …etc. made for a better overall game experience.
If Halo goes vanilla, it will be soooo boring.
I hope that they build off of what they did in 4 and smooth out the edges a little. And please, NURF THE @#!&^! BR!! Tell the “Halo Purists” that there is no logical reason it should out shoot a marksmen rifle at a distance, or a promethian rifle in any respect. It just doesn’t make sense.
Everybody wants something else. Some people want this, some people want that, other players oppose these ideas, and so on and so on. It’s quite impossible to make the entire community happy.
> > I hate to break it down to anyone who thinks that Halo 5 is gonna go back to being old school halo. But… it’s just not going to happen. Sprint is going to remain, AA’s are going to remain, powerups and other arena shooter like qualities aren’t returning. 343 Industries has made it perfectly clear numerous times that the old school arena shooter is not their vision of what Halo will be for now on. Now Halo 5 will most likely won’t have as many bugs or glitches as Halo 4 did and probably will have better maps. However; if your expectation of Halo being fixed means going back to the old days of arena shooters like Quake or UT. Then you might as well as go play those games and leave Halo behind.
>
> I’m not sure what you’ve been reading, but 343 have stated numerous times they will be returning to the roots of Halo. Now this doesn’t mean the complete removal of Sprint and AA’s but I can guarantee that if they do return, it will be to social playlists only. For me the return of AA’s with the exception of a few (I’m sure they will remove Camo, PV and Jetpack) is a welcome for social play as myself and other casual players enjoy using them. Whether Sprint should return or not is highly opinionated. I personally would prefer it would not return, however many players want it in social play, and as long as maps are not built with Sprint in mind, I couldn’t really care less should it be brought back to social play. Many small arena styled maps such as Sanctuary and Haven play almost perfect with Sprint anyway.
>
> I don’t see why some people are so cynical. They made mistakes with Halo 4 but have done so much to correct them. It’s clear they’re listening (though sometimes arguable as stated on page 1) and they have already confirmed several facts such as Spectator mode for Halo 5.
343 Industries said the EXACT same thing in the advertisements for Halo 4. That they would be returning to the roots of Halo. They lied except for the fact that you play as the MC. I’m sorry but it’s gonna take a lot more than just words for me to believe that. Only when gameplay footage that shows that the AA’s, sprint, and all other non-arena shooter gimmicks are removed forever will I believe it. And to be honest, that’s never going to happen. No company is dumb enough to make a pure arena shooter anymore.
And to be perfectly honest with you, they shouldn’t of made all these mistakes in the first place. Ignorance is never an excuse and that includes when making games.
> > I hate to break it down to anyone who thinks that Halo 5 is gonna go back to being old school halo. But… it’s just not going to happen. Sprint is going to remain, AA’s are going to remain, powerups and other arena shooter like qualities aren’t returning. 343 Industries has made it perfectly clear numerous times that the old school arena shooter is not their vision of what Halo will be for now on. Now Halo 5 will most likely won’t have as many bugs or glitches as Halo 4 did and probably will have better maps. However; if your expectation of Halo being fixed means going back to the old days of arena shooters like Quake or UT. Then you might as well as go play those games and leave Halo behind.
>
> I was just wondering if you had a source for your statement. You seem pretty sure of yourself with this, and I figured that was because you read an article with an interview by an employee that backs this up. Or are you just going by your hopes?
I’m sure of myself because every single Halo game has become more and more random. How can I have faith when the end results are always getting worse? Until we get gameplay footage that shows that the old school arena Halo has returned and is staying forever. I will stay pessimistic about Halo.
There hasn’t been a bulletin in two weeks.
I really hope 343 is seeing this, so they can do something