Why are people alright with 343's neglect?

Everytime someone mentions a game improvement, other people jump in top defend 343 stating that the game isn’t gonna get updates because they’re working on Halo 5. Somewhat of a decent argument, but what it Halo 5’s bad?

Are people gonna sit back and take it and be like “Ah well, they can ignore us because they’re working on Halo 6 and that’s gonna be good, hurr durr…”

It’s pretty pathetic how much the community just takes it, and places their bets on Halo 5 making up for it…

Let’s take RuneScape as an example of a game which improved due to player feedback. Players stated what they wanted, and quit the game until they got what they wanted. They got a whole new set of servers up and running, and basically got a remade version of a past game they wanted due to the fact they demanded something.

343’s took this long just to make a DLC playlist…

Why are people supporting them when their business ethic revolves around cranking out the next game, rather than improving their old one?
Isn’t this ethic the exact thing that Halo players complain about when Call of Duty is mentioned?

I’m confused, because as far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 has an extremely low population (so obviously many people have stopped supporting 343). Another thing dude, you must be new to Waypoint if you think that way of this community. Many people have tried to get changes put in Halo 4, many people. I think most of us here are pretty passionate when it comes to Halo, and saving it. But Halo 4 has already been out for a year, so there is nothing more the community can do except pray and hope that Halo 5 is better.

Nothing outside of completely re-working the game is going to make Halo 4 a good product. It’s a lost cause, I’d rather they focus on Halo 5 so it has more of a chance of actually turning out good.

I support 343 because I believe they are a good company. However I really don’t like the whole “they must work on Halo 5 argument”.

Since day one people have been complaining about FFA being an 8 man free for all (one of many small problems) as opposed to 6 which plays much better (especially on small maps). I’m sure that making Rumble Pit a 6 man FFA doesn’t take the whole team at 343 weeks to make the change. It could probably be done by one person by just clicking a few buttons. Obviously I don’t know how much effort it really does take to do small changes like that, for all I know it could be very time consuming.

> I’m sure that making Rumble Pit a 6 man FFA doesn’t take the whole team at 343 weeks to make the change. It could probably be done by one person by just clicking a few buttons. Obviously I don’t know how much effort it really does take to do small changes like that, for all I know it could be very time consuming.

You’d think not, except it took them on average two to three months in-between implementing new playlists. It can’t be that hard to add Team Snipers, yet it still took them forever to do it.

Their sustain team obviously doesn’t care so I’m not sure why I should. It legitimately does feel like they don’t even try to keep the game sustained.

> I support 343 because I believe they are a good company. However I really don’t like the whole “they must work on Halo 5 argument”.
>
> Since day one people have been complaining about FFA being an 8 man free for all (one of many small problems) as opposed to 6 which plays much better (especially on small maps). I’m sure that making Rumble Pit a 6 man FFA doesn’t take the whole team at 343 weeks to make the change. It could probably be done by one person by just clicking a few buttons. Obviously I don’t know how much effort it really does take to do small changes like that, for all I know it could be very time consuming.

I’ve said exactly the same thing about Join in Progress. I don’t think anyone has to do anything more than change a few figures, but I don’t know that for sure.
I always thought changing CTF’s JIP rule that allows people to join when losing 1-4 would only need someone to go and change the 1-4 to 1-3, or 1-2.

I also understand that 343’s not the massive company Bungie was, but it seems 343 doesn’t even try. It’s like all they care about is releasing gimmicky weekend playlists like “Turkey Bowl”, and then give themselves a pat on the back when someone posts that they enjoy it…

> I’m confused, because as far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 has an extremely low population (so obviously many people have stopped supporting 343). Another thing dude, you must be new to Waypoint if you think that way of this community. Many people have tried to get changes put in Halo 4, many people. I think most of us here are pretty passionate when it comes to Halo, and saving it. But Halo 4 has already been out for a year, so there is nothing more the community can do except pray and hope that Halo 5 is better.

I understand that people’ve quit a lot, and that others are passionate about it, but it seems that they’ve had no impact. How about some kind of online petition that states the demands of the players? The people who still play are the ones who complain the most, and most understandably, but they’re also the ones who keep playing, therefore keeping the game on life support.

This could’ve genuinely been a great game. I’ve seen the fans on here post ideas which seem great, and they were things that weren’t even in past Halo titles (Of course, they look great in theory, and we won’t know until they’re implemented).

It just seems like 343’s got this whole fanbase screaming at them the solution to improving the game, but instead they’re gambling on Halo 5.

I’ll be honest, if Halo 5 turns out to be the product of player feedback, then it could be the best Halo to date, however right now I really doubt it.

Surely creating something like Turkey Bowl, which nobody asked for, takes more time than tweaking a few figures/making a DLC Playlist which everyone wants?
Turkey Bowl was for one weekend, so the product wasn’t even worth the effort…In my opinion, at least.

> Surely creating something like Turkey Bowl, which nobody asked for, takes more time than tweaking a few figures/making a DLC Playlist which everyone wants?
> Turkey Bowl was for one weekend, so the product wasn’t even worth the effort…In my opinion, at least.

I completely agree. I wish 343 would give us we need, instead of giving us stuff that’s pointless (like Turkey Bowl).

They STILL have infinity slayer as the first option in team slayer.

No, the team who manages MM seems to spend more time in the break room at the office than actually improving the game.

343i is not only a new company, they’re first task was to work on Halo. Quite an overwhelming task for any company. We have what we have in Halo 4 and some mistakes have been made. But as a community we should hope and also help 343i learn from those mistakes.

It’s not even about defending or being against 343i. They are the developers for Halo no matter what you say. So if you’re a Halo fan then the least you can do is give constructive feed back for the sake of Halo.

> Let’s take RuneScape as an example of a game which improved due to player feedback. Players stated what they wanted, and quit the game until they got what they wanted. They got a whole new set of servers up and running, and basically got a remade version of a past game they wanted due to the fact they demanded something.

So what do you think 343 and Bungie were doing? Making games to spite us? No, what it basically comes down to is that player feedback means a lot less here than it does in other cases because what we want and need are much more disconnected. Halo’s rise is almost entirely attributable to mob appeal and working with that mob takes the Halo devs into the uncharted realm of human group psychology, which has a logic entirely of its own. Rational thought, you may think, is universal but underscoring EVERTHING SAID, particularly here, is the establishing orientations and in-group powerplay that is the heart of the Halo community.

“Sack Armor Abilities” might have a pretty straightforward rational, “I don’t like that,” but consider carefully the subtext. “This isn’t the game I want, it’s for other people. Make the game I want.” What right do we have to impose taste onto a game enjoyed by millions? In what other context (art, architecture, literature, ect.) do we take such galling liberties? Simple, in every other context (ex. Politics, Sports, the Internet) where human groups are involved and where we, as individuals, can throw the unthinking might of “The Community” at problems of opinion simply for the exercise and what that might show to other, competing groups.

Why feed into that? Bungie learned early that making a statement could in itself piss people off if it didn’t align with the particular in-group pressure demographics were unwittingly exerting. “Why didn’t you do more to nerf X, why are you guys so silent about Y (when A-W were updated), Z is just empowering noobs/COD fans/casuals or whomever the other party may be,” The refrain “You guys simple don’t care enough about us” has echoed across the decade even when Bungie was at their most attentive. It’s a pointless game to enter because whatever else may be going on human groups will see their interests as being paramount.

“Never mind that our gameplay has become an anachronistic mess of BAD gameplay conventions, where’s our ranking system!”

Objective progress is moot if it doesn’t amount to relative gains within the community (as measured by the influence it has over the design of the game.) So the best way, as the developer at the heart of the mess, to handle the intertangled and self-perpetuating mess of in-group squabbling is simply to stay silent, and thus reduce as much as possible the impetus behind some of the worst aspects of the Halo community. I applaud 343 for taking the most sensible course of action available to them.

Take a step back and remember that 343 isn’t here to serve you, or the community you see yourself a part as. There’s no service, no servitude, just the objective matter of producer and consumer which in no way requires a platitudinous dialog.

343 hasn’t really neglected us. I would prefer for 343 to create a decent game on Xbox One, than fix a game that people aren’t playing too often. I will play Halo until the day the servers are taken down, as I have a passion for the franchise. They regularly add new playlists, and have small additions constantly, post DLC. The Halo community is what has kept me playing Halo. The fun I’ve had, the people I’ve met, and the experiences that I have witnessed, have all been factors that make me love this franchise. I will happily go to conventions and events to meet developers, and other people of the community, and I almost treat it like a family. I guess you could say I’ve had a great life with Halo, as it is always something that I look forward to, and can have fun with friends on. You can call me a fanboy or whatever you want, but it’s something close to my heart.

I don’t think that it’s okay for 343i to neglect Halo 4 because they’re working on Halo Xbox One. However, I do think that a lot of possible changes (e.g. improving custom game options, Campaign Theater mode) would take more time and resources to make than would be worthwhile. 343i apparently didn’t design Halo 4 to be receptive to massive updates (and they should’ve, based on all of the missing features). Halo 4’s active population is very low too, which means if they did update the game, very few people would care.

> I don’t think that it’s okay for 343i to neglect Halo 4 because they’re working on Halo Xbox One. However, I do think that a lot of possible changes (e.g. improving custom game options, Campaign Theater mode) would take more time and resources to make than would be worthwhile. 343i apparently didn’t design Halo 4 to be receptive to massive updates (and they should’ve, based on all of the missing features). <mark>Halo 4’s active population is very low too, which means if they did update the game, very few people would care.</mark>

Thats pretty much telling 343 not to cater to those who do still play Halo 4. Halo 4 isn’t completely dead, so 343 should still care enough about the game to make it enjoyable for the remaining players who play it.

> (It’s what most people said with Halo Reach)

In my opinion that is not a good argument since Reach was a product of Bungie and not 343i. Aside from Halo: CEA and some DLC for Reach, Halo 4 was 343i’s first full fledged game.

> How about some kind of online petition that states the demands of the players?

Have you not seen this: Community Letter Given to 343i? That is just one of many threads that say a lot of the same things. It sounds like you are familiar enough with the forums so you know the amount of frustration that is voiced over Halo 4.

I do feel like there is a bit of neglect, and it is frustrating. For example during the two weeks Race was implemented they had JIP the whole time. Even though, first they had announced that it wouldn’t be there to begin with, and then when they posted in the feedback thread that it was removed it turned out it wasn’t. I even went back and posted about the fact that it was still there. No answer, no fix. This is not the only thing I have witnessed that they are not acknowledging.

However, I do keep playing the game. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are still a young company, in a vast and complex industry. I am not going to pretend I have any notion of what it is like to do the job that they do. They are all human, and all fallible. So I will continue to play, and give my feedback, and hope beyond hope that Halo 5 is different.

> Thats pretty much telling 343 not to cater to those who do still play Halo 4. Halo 4 isn’t completely dead, so 343 should still care enough about the game to make it enjoyable for the remaining players who play it.

And they are, as we can see by them releasing new gametypes and whatnot, like Race and Rocket Race. But I don’t think we’ll see drastic changes, such as Plasma Grenades removed from loadouts or a ranked/social playlist split.

> > Thats pretty much telling 343 not to cater to those who do still play Halo 4. Halo 4 isn’t completely dead, so 343 should still care enough about the game to make it enjoyable for the remaining players who play it.
>
> And they are, as we can see by them releasing new gametypes and whatnot, like Race and Rocket Race. But I don’t think we’ll see drastic changes, such as Plasma Grenades removed from loadouts or a ranked/social playlist split.

You know, when you think about it, Halo 4 was just to tide people over until Halo 5’s release. That’s the way I see it.

> You know, when you think about it, Halo 4 was just to tide people over until Halo 5’s release. That’s the way I see it.

I don’t think that’s what it was meant to be at release (343i actually really wanted to make it a blockbuster game), but I think that’s what it’s become.

> Everytime someone mentions a game improvement, other people jump in top defend 343 stating that the game isn’t gonna get updates because they’re working on Halo 5. Somewhat of a decent argument, but what it Halo 5’s bad?

Given that 343i still has a good chunk of their staff working on Halo 4, I don’t see many arguments that say that 343i won’t continue to update the game.

> Are people gonna sit back and take it and be like “Ah well, they can ignore us because they’re working on Halo 6 and that’s gonna be good, hurr durr…”

I doubt that that will be used as an arguement.

> It’s pretty pathetic how much the community just takes it, and places their bets on Halo 5 making up for it…

Is it pathetic to have dedication and faith for a franchise that you’ve loved since 2001? Is it a crime to be thankful for the improvements that 343i made to Halo 4?

> Let’s take RuneScape as an example of a game which improved due to player feedback. Players stated what they wanted, and quit the game until they got what they wanted. They got a whole new set of servers up and running, and basically got a remade version of a past game they wanted due to the fact they demanded something.

I think you’re forgetting the fact that 343i DID improve Halo 4 based on fan feedback.

> 343’s took this long just to make a DLC playlist…

Given that the DLC map packs feature maps of varying size, and that the population is too low to have a thousand different playlists, it’s rather difficult to be able to make a single DLC playlist than can effectively harbor a number of players that will work with all DLC maps.

> <mark>Why are people supporting them when their business ethic revolves around cranking out the next game, rather than improving their old one?</mark>
> Isn’t this ethic the exact thing that Halo players complain about when Call of Duty is mentioned?

Probably because some people like to make the best out of what they’re given.

Also, saying that 343i just “cranks out new game instead of improving old ones” is completely false. In Halo Reach, 343i took the time to patch the nearly-broken game that Bungie had completely abandoned rather than focusing entirely on Halo 4.

I suggest you take a moment to read this Opinion: Player Metrics Vs. The Vocal Minority .

and really, why cater to the people who aren’t going to play your game instead of the people who would? It was a huge problem I had with the title update for Reach, appealing to the people who admitted that they didn’t and would never play the game again instead of the people who loved playing what Reach was. Now look at the playlists, aside from BTB all playlists with the title update are dead. Barely managing to get a dozen players at any one time.