Why are Elites bad for MP?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

I understand that in MLG it would be a little weird. Since every MLG FPS game doesn’t have a speices that changes the way you have to fire even by a little bit. So i understand many of the True MLG gamers would have an issue with Elites being allowed in MLG gametypes but why does everyone else hate them. When i first heard Elites being able to be played in Halo 2. Me and my friends were bouncing off the walls. It blew our minds to be playing as aliens and the Campaign made me become a huge Sangheili fan. I was squeaker back in Halo 2(shrugs) but i don’t really recall many issues with the elites besides… they are aliens.

But in Halo 3. The hate grew so high i didn’t really understand it. It was just people mad that you can’t shoot someone in the back of the head so easily. That was it, i never knew it was so bad. Apparently it lead to little to no action for Elites in Halo Reach’s Mp. When elites should only not of been in Arena. But they were only in Invasion even thought in the Halo Reach Beta trailer Mp was full on Elites vs Spartans but it was removed and elites were shunned to the side. Now in Halo 4 they are gone which is why this thread exists now.

So i want someone to explain to me why elites are so wrong. Clearly many people say that elites should be in Halo. They are apart of the 3 things that made Halo a great.

Mystery

Duty

Action

Hurting either one of these things and you might not even want to call the game Halo anymore. By lore or by gameplay.

So please, if they elites are so horrible for gameplay i want to know why. If they are a blight on the game then maybe they should stay out. I disagree with that but what about you.

#2

They worked fine in Halo 2 and Halo 3.

In Reach, the Elites were faster and could jump higher. Plus they were bigger, and couldn’t do things that Spartans could do because of it. They could’ve worked really well for Multiplayer, but I guess Bungie didn’t put this into consideration, seeing as how they didn’t work on Reach as much as the other Halos.

In Halo 4, they didn’t add them because the Multiplayer was about Spartan 4s training. That’s why they call it the War Games. They couldn’t add them because of that. But why couldn’t they have added them to Spartan Ops, and made a gametype which had playable Elites, like Halo Reach did with Invasion.

This means that 343i either didn’t care, or adding Elites isn’t as easy as we think.

Hopefully they add them to Halo 5, which they probably will.

#3

> They worked fine in Halo 2 and Halo 3.
>
> In Reach, the Elites were faster and could jump higher. Plus they were bigger, and couldn’t do things that Spartans could do because of it. They could’ve worked really well for Multiplayer, but I guess Bungie didn’t put this into consideration, seeing as how they didn’t work on Reach as much as the other Halos.
>
> In Halo 4, they didn’t add them because the Multiplayer was about Spartan 4s training. That’s why they call it the War Games. They couldn’t add them because of that. But why couldn’t they have added them to Spartan Ops, and made a gametype which had playable Elites, like Halo Reach did with Invasion.
>
> This means that 343i either didn’t care, or adding Elites isn’t as easy as we think.
>
> Hopefully they add them to Halo 5, which they probably will.

The way i see it was the whole MP being lore thing was a way to keep elites out of MP. Even thought it would make more sense for them to be in it because there is little reason to train Spartans with other Spartans if most likely they will be fighting Covies.

Also i 100% believe that 343i doesn’t care for elites on how they are portrayed in Halo 4. They look cool and all but they way they act in SP like Gek’s battle with Throne. Gek, won but they made it seem like he was slow and stupid.

#4

> Also i 100% believe that 343i doesn’t care for elites on how they are portrayed in Halo 4. They look cool and all but they way they act in SP like <mark>Gek’s battle with Throne. Gek, won but they made it seem like he was slow and stupid.</mark>

You do know that in a 1v1 fist fight, Spartans won every single time, right? The only reason why Gek could even win was because Thorne was injured and had been walking without any breaks as soon as he teleported onto Requiem.

Anyways, on topic.

Yes, I understand why MLG/competitive players don’t like Elites, but as for the overall community, no, I don’t see why.

As far as I know, people didn’t complain about Elites in Halo 2 (I never went on the Forums back then, but online at least I don’t remember anyone complaining about them).

People did complain about them in Halo 3 because of their hitboxes (especially in SWAT!). You had a hard time shooting them in the back of the head, and even when you were looking at their face, it still had trouble registering.

People don’t really complain about the Elites in Reach (or at least, legitimately). Bungie designed them to act differently due to Invasion (I never really liked this excuse since you could simply change their traits to be different from the Spartans in Customs), and the fact that the Elites were more like Spartan IIs while the Spartan IIIs were like, well, Spartan IIIs, so that instantly changed their gameplay. Bungie even said that if you wanted to play Halo 2/3 in Reach, you’d want to play as Elites. As for hitboxes, no one complained (they actually highly preferred it over Halo 3’s) since the Elites were much easier to hit in the head than before, and the fact that they were more straight-standing.

So, to answer your question, the reason why Elites are “bad” for Multiplayer is due to their hitboxes/unfairness/unequalness for gameplay. As soon as you fix that, no one would care (except for people that, for whatever reason, just hate the thought of aliens being in Multiplayer).

#5

> > Also i 100% believe that 343i doesn’t care for elites on how they are portrayed in Halo 4. They look cool and all but they way they act in SP like <mark>Gek’s battle with Throne. Gek, won but they made it seem like he was slow and stupid.</mark>
>
> You do know that in a 1v1 fist fight, Spartans won every single time, right? The only reason why Gek could even win was because Thorne was injured and had been walking without any breaks as soon as he teleported onto Requiem.
>
>
> Anyways, on topic.
>
> Yes, I understand why MLG/competitive players don’t like Elites, but as for the overall community, no, I don’t see why.
>
> As far as I know, people didn’t complain about Elites in Halo 2 (I never went on the Forums back then, but online at least I don’t remember anyone complaining about them).
>
> People did complain about them in Halo 3 because of their hitboxes (especially in SWAT!). You had a hard time shooting them in the back of the head, and even when you were looking at their face, it still had trouble registering.
>
> People don’t really complain about the Elites in Reach (or at least, legitimately). Bungie designed them to act differently due to Invasion (I never really liked this excuse since you could simply change their traits to be different from the Spartans in Customs), and the fact that the Elites were more like Spartan IIs while the Spartan IIIs were like, well, Spartan IIIs, so that instantly changed their gameplay. Bungie even said that if you wanted to play Halo 2/3 in Reach, you’d want to play as Elites. As for hitboxes, no one complained (they actually highly preferred it over Halo 3’s) since the Elites were much easier to hit in the head than before, and the fact that they were more straight-standing.
>
> So, to answer your question, the reason why Elites are “bad” for Multiplayer is due to their hitboxes/unfairness/unequalness for gameplay. As soon as you fix that, no one would care (except for people that, for whatever reason, just hate the thought of aliens being in Multiplayer).

Numbered as listed.

  1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.

  2. I did enjoy the Elites alot more in Reach and me and my friends tired to tell others of their ability to be used as 2/3 gameplay options but people just didn’t want to be an elite even if the way you play with them was like Halo 2/3. Xenophobic I guess. Also i never knew Bungie stated that Elites in Reach were made to be like Spartan II’s. I came to that conclusion with my friends just by knowing lore. Would of helped alot back then to know this.

  3. That is what i find weird thought. Most people who have played Halo have fought Elites and know how to combat them. They should know just as well where to shoot as fighting a Spartan.

Sorry if any of these come off as me being an -Yoink-. I try not to sometimes texting can be misunderstood of terms of emotions.

P.S. your rank is Master of Unicorns. I have wondered. What does that even mean. Does it mean you got the Fotus Helmet or something. Whats up with that.

#6

They looked silly, tbph. If 343 made them balanced enough (same hitboxes as Spartans) and not completely ridiculous-looking to most people, then yeah, they could work. I guess I did find them kind of amusing in H2/3. But forced player models should always be an option in gametypes - either Spartan or Elite.

#7

> 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.

Spartan-IIIs are extremely lethal fighters in CQC. Covenant soldiers wouldn’t dare combat one in tight quarters. The Spartan-IIIs were said to be the best Spartans with the rigorous training exercises given by Kurt. They’re downfall was the inferior tech they were given.

Spartan-IVs would be quite experienced. Coming from the top fighters of ODSTs and special warfare units, these soldiers would have plenty of battles waged and won against Covenant. I believe that over time the IVs will become a force to be reckoned with.

#8

> > 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.
>
> Spartan-IIIs are extremely lethal fighters in CQC. Covenant soldiers wouldn’t dare combat one in tight quarters. The Spartan-IIIs were said to be the best Spartans with the rigorous training exercises given by Kurt. They’re downfall was the inferior tech they were given.
>
> Spartan-IVs would be quite experienced. Coming from the top fighters of ODSTs and special warfare units, these soldiers would have plenty of battles waged and won against Covenant. I believe that over time the IVs will become a force to be reckoned with.

Spartan II’s stuggled in CQC against Elites. Spartan 3’s certainly won’t be as big an issue. S4’s even worse.

#9

> > 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.
>
> Spartan-IIIs are extremely lethal fighters in CQC. Covenant soldiers wouldn’t dare combat one in tight quarters. The Spartan-IIIs were said to be the best Spartans with the rigorous training exercises given by Kurt. They’re downfall was the inferior tech they were given.
>
> Spartan-IVs would be quite experienced. Coming from the top fighters of ODSTs and special warfare units, these soldiers would have plenty of battles waged and won against Covenant. I believe that over time the IVs will become a force to be reckoned with.

The thing is, unlike the S-II and S-III, the S-IV weren’t trained from childhood to be soldiers. Every Elite, from the day it was born, was trained to become a warrior, and every other profession was just a hobbie at much. Spartans still have a hard time in CQC with any Covie species besides Grunts or Jackals (Ignoring gameplay and story segregation).

On topic, they aren’t bad for multiplayer, I really miss playing as one. Just my personal preference. Also, I had no issues with them on SWAT on Halo 3, they were easier to shoot from the side. =/

#10

> > > 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.
> >
> > Spartan-IIIs are extremely lethal fighters in CQC. Covenant soldiers wouldn’t dare combat one in tight quarters. The Spartan-IIIs were said to be the best Spartans with the rigorous training exercises given by Kurt. They’re downfall was the inferior tech they were given.
> >
> > Spartan-IVs would be quite experienced. Coming from the top fighters of ODSTs and special warfare units, these soldiers would have plenty of battles waged and won against Covenant. I believe that over time the IVs will become a force to be reckoned with.
>
> Spartan II’s stuggled in CQC against Elites. Spartan 3’s certainly won’t be as big an issue. S4’s even worse.

Aside from Master Chief, which Spartan-IIs struggled with CQC? Kelly danced around Elites in GoO. It was even stated in GoO how the Covenant would rather engage Spartan-IIIs from afar rather than CQC due to their fierceness.
Spartan-IIIs were trained for unit cohesiveness, but they are still deadly in singularity.

Not much is known of the IVs, so they could be horrendous, or greatly skilled. Only time will tell for them.

#11

> Spartan II’s stuggled in CQC against Elites. Spartan 3’s certainly won’t be as big an issue. S4’s even worse.

Yeah, and you need to remember that’s often because the Elites were Master Swordsman or extremely high ranks meaning they are extremely skilled in combat.

#12

> > > 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.
> >
> > Spartan-IIIs are extremely lethal fighters in CQC. Covenant soldiers wouldn’t dare combat one in tight quarters. The Spartan-IIIs were said to be the best Spartans with the rigorous training exercises given by Kurt. They’re downfall was the inferior tech they were given.
> >
> > Spartan-IVs would be quite experienced. Coming from the top fighters of ODSTs and special warfare units, these soldiers would have plenty of battles waged and won against Covenant. I believe that over time the IVs will become a force to be reckoned with.
>
> The thing is, unlike the S-II and S-III, the S-IV weren’t trained from childhood to be soldiers. Every Elite, from the day it was born, was trained to become a warrior, and every other profession was just a hobbie at much. Spartans still have a hard time in CQC with any Covie species besides Grunts or Jackals (Ignoring gameplay and story segregation).
>
> On topic, they aren’t bad for multiplayer, I really miss playing as one. Just my personal preference. Also, I had no issues with them on SWAT on Halo 3, they were easier to shoot from the side. =/

True that Spartan-IVs have not been trained from childhood. Does that make them any less of a fierce fighting force?
They’ve been fighting the Covenant for nearly 3 decades. I’m sure fighting the Covenant is all a lot of them have ever known. It’s no small feat to survive the entire war as an ODST. By the end of it, they would have honed skills for combating them, and given advanced armor and who-knows-what augmentations, what’s to say they aren’t a good fighting force?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they’ll be to the point of IIs and IIIs. I hope nothing ever is, but I wouldn’t underestimate the IVs.

#13

> > > Also i 100% believe that 343i doesn’t care for elites on how they are portrayed in Halo 4. They look cool and all but they way they act in SP like <mark>Gek’s battle with Throne. Gek, won but they made it seem like he was slow and stupid.</mark>
> >
> > You do know that in a 1v1 fist fight, Spartans won every single time, right? The only reason why Gek could even win was because Thorne was injured and had been walking without any breaks as soon as he teleported onto Requiem.
> >
> >
> > Anyways, on topic.
> >
> > Yes, I understand why MLG/competitive players don’t like Elites, but as for the overall community, no, I don’t see why.
> >
> > As far as I know, people didn’t complain about Elites in Halo 2 (I never went on the Forums back then, but online at least I don’t remember anyone complaining about them).
> >
> > People did complain about them in Halo 3 because of their hitboxes (especially in SWAT!). You had a hard time shooting them in the back of the head, and even when you were looking at their face, it still had trouble registering.
> >
> > People don’t really complain about the Elites in Reach (or at least, legitimately). Bungie designed them to act differently due to Invasion (I never really liked this excuse since you could simply change their traits to be different from the Spartans in Customs), and the fact that the Elites were more like Spartan IIs while the Spartan IIIs were like, well, Spartan IIIs, so that instantly changed their gameplay. Bungie even said that if you wanted to play Halo 2/3 in Reach, you’d want to play as Elites. As for hitboxes, no one complained (they actually highly preferred it over Halo 3’s) since the Elites were much easier to hit in the head than before, and the fact that they were more straight-standing.
> >
> > So, to answer your question, the reason why Elites are “bad” for Multiplayer is due to their hitboxes/unfairness/unequalness for gameplay. As soon as you fix that, no one would care (except for people that, for whatever reason, just hate the thought of aliens being in Multiplayer).
>
> Numbered as listed.
>
> 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.
>
> 2. I did enjoy the Elites alot more in Reach and me and my friends tired to tell others of their ability to be used as 2/3 gameplay options but people just didn’t want to be an elite even if the way you play with them was like Halo 2/3. Xenophobic I guess. Also i never knew Bungie stated that Elites in Reach were made to be like Spartan II’s. I came to that conclusion with my friends just by knowing lore. Would of helped alot back then to know this.
>
> 3. That is what i find weird thought. Most people who have played Halo have fought Elites and know how to combat them. They should know just as well where to shoot as fighting a Spartan.
>
> Sorry if any of these come off as me being an -Yoink!-. I try not to sometimes texting can be misunderstood of terms of emotions.
>
> <mark>P.S. your rank is Master of Unicorns. I have wondered. What does that even mean. Does it mean you got the Fotus Helmet or something. Whats up with that.[/</mark>quote]
>
>
>
> It means his rank isn’t showing on Waypoint, it has nothing to do with the FOTUS helmet

#14

> > Spartan II’s stuggled in CQC against Elites. Spartan 3’s certainly won’t be as big an issue. S4’s even worse.
>
> Yeah, and you need to remember that’s often because the Elites were Master Swordsman or extremely high ranks meaning they are extremely skilled in combat.

Well obviously, a Minor is not going to win anything against a Spartan. Even a Major. Anything beyond that should beat a Spartan.

> Aside from Master Chief, which Spartan-IIs struggled with CQC? Kelly danced around Elites in GoO. It was even stated in GoO how the Covenant would rather engage Spartan-IIIs from afar rather than CQC due to their fierceness.
> Spartan-IIIs were trained for unit cohesiveness, but they are still deadly in singularity.
>
> Not much is known of the IVs, so they could be horrendous, or greatly skilled. Only time will tell for them.

You mean the fastest Spartan there is, augmented and with a suit that further increases her speed was much faster than an Elite? No kidding. And GoO was retcon after retcon. Mainly on the Elites, which made them into people who could barely fight in CQC which is supposed to be their specialty.

#15

They aren’t, they worked perfectly for Invasion in Halo Reach. For them to be implemented in future Halo titles, the devs need to get creative.

#16

> You mean the fastest Spartan there is, augmented and with a suit that further increases her speed was much faster than an Elite? No kidding. And GoO was retcon after retcon. Mainly on the Elites, which made them into people who could barely fight in CQC which is supposed to be their specialty.

It still stands, Kelly beat those Elites. No doubt her speed ensured it.
Fred is skilled with combat knives. He too, is an expert on CQC warfare.

Retcon, or maybe because the book focused on Spartan-IIIs who were exceptionally skilled in CQC. They were trained as disposable soldiers, yes, but they were still trained excruciatingly.
Their trainers were both CPO Mendez and Kurt. The training the IIIs would have received would have been more refined and advanced. How is it difficult to imagine that the IIIs were skilled in CQC?
They’re made for more direct confrontation.

#17

> > You mean the fastest Spartan there is, augmented and with a suit that further increases her speed was much faster than an Elite? No kidding. And GoO was retcon after retcon. Mainly on the Elites, which made them into people who could barely fight in CQC which is supposed to be their specialty.
>
> It still stands, Kelly beat those Elites. No doubt her speed ensured it.
> Fred is skilled with combat knives. He too, is an expert on CQC warfare.
>
> Retcon, or maybe because the book focused on Spartan-IIIs who were exceptionally skilled in CQC. They were trained as disposable soldiers, yes, but they were still trained excruciatingly.
> Their trainers were both CPO Mendez and Kurt. The training the IIIs would have received would have been more refined and advanced. How is it difficult to imagine that the IIIs were skilled in CQC?
> They’re made for more direct confrontation.

I don’t really think them having Camo armor and being sent on only suicide missions is called direct confrontation.

Spartan III’s were made to die. They were to go into the worst missions that nobody would come back from and just get the job done. That is why many elites didn’t move up on them. They assumed they were suicidal units and they were. No one in the right mind would charge a guy who has no feel for death. They were just aware that these troops can be slightly not visible and would blow themselves up at any moment if needed.

Tell me if you had to fight Kamikaze stealth Elites, i bet you wouldn’t enjoy it. Each running at you with 8 grenades and a wraith mortar round on their back. I’m sure everytime yo notice a stealth elite you would drop him ASAP and never let him get close.

#18

> > > > 1. Well Throne was dragged a great distance and he wasn’t hurt beyond the lengths of his spartan genes being able to heal him. He just didn’t have all of the gear that was in his armor and he is a spartan IV. MC barley beat the elite aboard the ship in First Strike. He couldn’t even keep up the right and had to throw him out into an escape pod and launch the elite out into space. The Elite noticed his shields were out and threw his own helmet off to take lower his own shields. To make it a fair might and if you ask me if it wasn’t for Johnson and those ODST’s MC would of lost. That being said i wasn’t a fist fight. MC had to use his AR as a bat while the Elite had a sword. But either way each generator of Spartans after the two is weaker. Spartan III’s are great but an elite can kill them and they can over power them. Now a IV that is less experienced than a Spartan III’s and less powerful, and quicker wouldn’t really stand to a veteraned Sangheili. Gek won the battle and was about to deliver the killing blow but as we all knew… something was going to stop that from happening.
> > >
> > > Spartan-IIIs are extremely lethal fighters in CQC. Covenant soldiers wouldn’t dare combat one in tight quarters. The Spartan-IIIs were said to be the best Spartans with the rigorous training exercises given by Kurt. They’re downfall was the inferior tech they were given.
> > >
> > > Spartan-IVs would be quite experienced. Coming from the top fighters of ODSTs and special warfare units, these soldiers would have plenty of battles waged and won against Covenant. I believe that over time the IVs will become a force to be reckoned with.
> >
> > The thing is, unlike the S-II and S-III, the S-IV weren’t trained from childhood to be soldiers. Every Elite, from the day it was born, was trained to become a warrior, and every other profession was just a hobbie at much. Spartans still have a hard time in CQC with any Covie species besides Grunts or Jackals (Ignoring gameplay and story segregation).
> >
> > On topic, they aren’t bad for multiplayer, I really miss playing as one. Just my personal preference. Also, I had no issues with them on SWAT on Halo 3, they were easier to shoot from the side. =/
>
> True that Spartan-IVs have not been trained from childhood. Does that make them any less of a fierce fighting force?
> They’ve been fighting the Covenant for nearly 3 decades. I’m sure fighting the Covenant is all a lot of them have ever known. It’s no small feat to survive the entire war as an ODST. By the end of it, they would have honed skills for combating them, and given advanced armor and who-knows-what augmentations, what’s to say they aren’t a good fighting force?
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they’ll be to the point of IIs and IIIs. I hope nothing ever is, but I wouldn’t underestimate the IVs.

ODSTs are nothing to a Spartan. In Halo the Flood MC did what an entire platoon of the best ODST’s couldn’t. If an entire platoon of the best is inferior to one Spartan II. Than I am assuming that if one of these guys were to become a Spartan IV than well…it would increase what they could do but not what they are. After so many years of war its not like you level up in a game. Your body gets weak, you after losing so much emotional weight slows you down,you grow old and your skills begin to slowly go away. The way I see it is that Spartan IV’s are like that guy from the second Hulk move. They were old vets put into their younger and better bodies. A man with the skills they have now with the body they had 20 years ago with their hope reinspired. Now give the, super strength and speed The Perfect Vet solider to a war. Without a doubt.

But that is fighting other human would he be the perfect killing machine. An Elite has the powers of a Spartan IV the ones who made this guy nothing before. Juicing him up will do little to match that kind of power. A platoon has about 60 troops.

A Spartan II is worth more than that entire platoon.

A Spartan III would be worth about as much as 45 of those troops.

A Spartan IV would be about 10 of the ODST.

Don’t get me wrong a Spartan IV has skills and power to fight but when they come toe to toe with something like a Hunter, Brute Chieftain or a high Ranking Elite. I don’t expect much besides screaming on the Comms.

P.S. Thanks Antonio2362

#19

> > > You mean the fastest Spartan there is, augmented and with a suit that further increases her speed was much faster than an Elite? No kidding. And GoO was retcon after retcon. Mainly on the Elites, which made them into people who could barely fight in CQC which is supposed to be their specialty.
> >
> > It still stands, Kelly beat those Elites. No doubt her speed ensured it.
> > Fred is skilled with combat knives. He too, is an expert on CQC warfare.
> >
> > Retcon, or maybe because the book focused on Spartan-IIIs who were exceptionally skilled in CQC. They were trained as disposable soldiers, yes, but they were still trained excruciatingly.
> > Their trainers were both CPO Mendez and Kurt. The training the IIIs would have received would have been more refined and advanced. How is it difficult to imagine that the IIIs were skilled in CQC?
> > They’re made for more direct confrontation.
>
> I don’t really think them having Camo armor and being sent on only suicide missions is called direct confrontation.
>
> Spartan III’s were made to die. They were to go into the worst missions that nobody would come back from and just get the job done. That is why many elites didn’t move up on them. They assumed they were suicidal units and they were. No one in the right mind would charge a guy who has no feel for death. They were just aware that these troops can be slightly not visible and would blow themselves up at any moment if needed.
>
> Tell me if you had to fight Kamikaze stealth Elites, i bet you wouldn’t enjoy it. Each running at you with 8 grenades and a wraith mortar round on their back. I’m sure everytime yo notice a stealth elite you would drop him ASAP and never let him get close.

You realize that they were made to be expendable, not kamikaze suicidal. They were made to go deep behind enemy lines, sabotage, or generally wreak havoc, and then ultimately die in battle.
If need be, they would kill themselves in the process, but their modus operandi is not by suicide-Grunt.
The SPI armor for just that; infiltration. Get in amongst the Covenant forces and cause chaos. So indeed they are meant for direct confrontation.

You brought up a good point: What are stealth Elites for? To infiltrate enemy locations undetected. Same goes for Spartan-IIIs.

#20

> ODSTs are nothing to a Spartan. In Halo the Flood MC did what an entire platoon of the best ODST’s couldn’t. If an entire platoon of the best is inferior to one Spartan II. Than I am assuming that if one of these guys were to become a Spartan IV than well…it would increase what they could do but not what they are. After so many years of war its not like you level up in a game. Your body gets weak, you after losing so much emotional weight slows you down,you grow old and your skills begin to slowly go away. The way I see it is that Spartan IV’s are like that guy from the second Hulk move. They were old vets put into their younger and better bodies. A man with the skills they have now with the body they had 20 years ago with their hope reinspired. Now give the, super strength and speed The Perfect Vet solider to a war. Without a doubt.
>
> But that is fighting other human would he be the perfect killing machine. An Elite has the powers of a Spartan IV the ones who made this guy nothing before. Juicing him up will do little to match that kind of power. A platoon has about 60 troops.
>
> A Spartan II is worth more than that entire platoon.
>
> A Spartan III would be worth about as much as 45 of those troops.
>
> A Spartan IV would be about 10 of the ODST.
>
> Don’t get me wrong a Spartan IV has skills and power to fight but when they come toe to toe with something like a Hunter, Brute Chieftain or a high Ranking Elite. I don’t expect much besides screaming on the Comms.
>
> P.S. Thanks Antonio2362

My point with the ODST is that after fighting for so long, they would have developed a particular set of skills. Fighting, and ultimately surviving, throughout the war with inferior tech to what the Spartans possessed would be an incredible feat.

The Spartan-IV candidates are the best the UNSC has to offer. The ones you explained would not be chosen for their deteriorating health.
Not much is given on the IV program, but what we can guess is that the trainers for the IVs would be the IIs and IIIs. They would be showing the newest Spartans how to effectively combat the Covenant, as well as the ODSTs own experience throughout the war. Given both those, the IVs could indeed be fierce, we just don’t know yet. Though Crimson already shows great skill.