If you’ve seen game play from pro league matches every Wednesday and Thursday, you’d notice the fast paced action granted by the new Spartan abilities, allowing for more aggressive pushes. Unfortunately, this game play doesn’t carry over well to the power ups in each map. There are 2 major issues with the power ups in this game: the dynamic spawns and the animation required to apply the power up to your armor.
Dynamic spawns grant a bigger advantage to the team who first grabbed the power up in the game. Because the respawn time is only activated for when the power up is first grabbed, the team with it now knows the exact time for when it next respawn, while the opposing must guess unless they saw the enemy team grab the power up. This makes for unfair matches and can determine the course of a game from just one successful grab, leading to a snowball effect for winning the game because 1 team will permanently figure out how and when to control the power ups on the map, on top of their (theoretically) established map control.
The animation for grabbing power ups may seem immersive on the first few games, but its effect on game play can’t be overlooked. Because players are so heavily exposed while grabbing power ups, this creates ample opportunity for the power up to be burned and defeats the purpose of going for it in the first place. It really isn’t satisfying for players to be killed without even using the power up because of this animation. What this also forces is the baiting of a power up, in which players can easily kill enemies going for it because of how exposed they are while sitting at a safe distance. The animation creates for annoying stand offs and overall slows down the pace of the game, while also being the biggest factor for excluding the damage boost and speed boost from competitive play. For a weapon that can’t be used by other players once the original user dies, the animation for picking it up is unwarranted.
What 343 needs to implement is this: static weapon respawns and instant pick up power ups. In static weapon respawns, the power up will spawn every 2 minutes of the game, regardless of when it was grabbed. This enforces the idea of equal starts and allows the disadvantageous team to at least plan ahead for the power up since the respawn is predictable, instead of the team who grabbed it first being able to walk away with it uncontested throughout the game. Instant pick up power ups (like halo CE-3) allows the power up to be immediately utilized and grants the opportunity of fighting back after putting yourself in a poor position to even grab it in the first place. Now teams will be more focused on grabbing power ups and can push for it more aggressively because of its instant effect once controlled. This also leaves room for the speed boost and damage boost to be put in pro game play because of the user’s ability to efficiently escape or combat the enemy.
Additionally, we want to reward players for being able to grab it uncontested. Besides the speed boost (because other players can easily see it due to the faster movement speed), players who grab the OS and damage boost should appear as regular players. When they begin to fire or when they’re fired upon, the armor effect should then appear to identify what these players are using. This is to emphasize the lack of free information in game play and force the enemy to properly coordinate in identifying and taking down these players.
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> I thought you could melee to cancel the pickup animation? It’s really not that long either way. As a casual player, I like it.
343 removed that ability, so you are forced to go through the animation to apply it. For pro gameplay, this feature makes grabbing power ups so much harder. But I respect your stance.
Here’s my take on the dynamic respawns: it really isn’t unfair, the reason being if you play competitivelyand you WANT to win, you have to challenge power ups and power positions. I never ever ignore power ups when the game starts and to me, it seems that it’d be my own stupidity if I were to ignore challenging the power up and then losing track of the spawn timer simply cuz I ignored a crucial pickup that can change a games outcome. Always go by the 2 minute count, if it gets picked up at say 10.17 then my team needs to be pushing for it at 8.30 to at least get that chance to get it and possibly block off the opponents from it. Maybe I’m just not understanding what you mean, but to me I hardly say the current setup is unfair but really depends on the lack of coordination from said team.
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> > 2533274803493024;2:
> > I thought you could melee to cancel the pickup animation? It’s really not that long either way. As a casual player, I like it.
>
>
> 343 removed that ability, so you are forced to go through the animation to apply it. For pro gameplay, this feature makes grabbing power ups so much harder. But I respect your stance.
I’ve found crouching will cancel the animation still
> 2533274923562209;4:
> Here’s my take on the dynamic respawns: it really isn’t unfair, the reason being if you play competitivelyand you WANT to win, you have to challenge power ups and power positions. I never ever ignore power ups when the game starts and to me, it seems that it’d be my own stupidity if I were to ignore challenging the power up and then losing track of the spawn timer simply cuz I ignored a crucial pickup that can change a games outcome. Always go by the 2 minute count, if it gets picked up at say 10.17 then my team needs to be pushing for it at 8.30 to at least get that chance to get it and possibly block off the opponents from it. Maybe I’m just not understanding what you mean, but to me I hardly say the current setup is unfair but really depends on the lack of coordination from said team.
The problem is that the one mistake of being unable to challenge a power up because of your lack of positioning gives the enemy control of when they want the power up to spawn. You can’t easily time them with dynamic respawns (halo 2 anyone?), giving the enemy team such a bigger advantage for successfully grabbing 1 power up. Snowball effects as a result can easily occur without the proper means to time them.
There have been times in pro league where mistiming the power up cost players their life and map control (even by 1 second) due to lack of predictability. Such an ability to control when the power up spawns is ridiculous with the philosophy of equal starts. Everyone should know when the power ups respawn during the game, not just the team who grabbed it first (like power weapons in halo 5). If static respawns were to actually come for power ups, you’d actually see the better team work harder to control it because everyone can plan a push to grab it with predictable spawn times.
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> > > 2533274803493024;2:
> > > I thought you could melee to cancel the pickup animation? It’s really not that long either way. As a casual player, I like it.
> >
> >
> > 343 removed that ability, so you are forced to go through the animation to apply it. For pro gameplay, this feature makes grabbing power ups so much harder. But I respect your stance.
>
>
> I’ve found crouching will cancel the animation still
Post a clip of it if that’s the case, because I’ve never cancelled an animation from simply crouching.
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> > > 2533274968707582;3:
> > > > 2533274803493024;2:
> > > > I thought you could melee to cancel the pickup animation? It’s really not that long either way. As a casual player, I like it.
> > >
> > >
> > > 343 removed that ability, so you are forced to go through the animation to apply it. For pro gameplay, this feature makes grabbing power ups so much harder. But I respect your stance.
> >
> >
> > I’ve found crouching will cancel the animation still
>
>
> Post a clip of it if that’s the case, because I’ve never cancelled an animation from simply crouching.
I think it might need to be a power slide. I’m not sure it was kind of a fluke I picked up an over shield and there wasn’t an animation and I don’t know what game it was to check
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> > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > > 2533274968707582;3:
> > > > > 2533274803493024;2:
> > > > > I thought you could melee to cancel the pickup animation? It’s really not that long either way. As a casual player, I like it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 343 removed that ability, so you are forced to go through the animation to apply it. For pro gameplay, this feature makes grabbing power ups so much harder. But I respect your stance.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve found crouching will cancel the animation still
> >
> >
> > Post a clip of it if that’s the case, because I’ve never cancelled an animation from simply crouching.
>
>
> I think it might need to be a power slide. I’m not sure it was kind of a fluke I picked up an over shield and there wasn’t an animation and I don’t know what game it was to check
Even if there wasn’t an animation to supplement you picking up the power up, there is still a moment of time where you still need to apply it to your armor (like OS). The boost from the power up isn’t instant from the moment you grab the power up, which is the problem, not necessarily the animation itself.
I agree with the animation delete. As far as the respawns I think it should stay the same. Controling the map and power ups is basically the game. Not getting these puts you at a disavantage yes, because that’s how it’s intended to be. Your punished for not getting that power up. It’s a 2 min respawns time, evendors if you didn’t see it get grabbed you should still have a general idea when it’s back up esp if the other team is on their game with it. I would like to see invisibly taken out though. I feel it just slows things down and the way it works in this game it’s almost pointless to have. Maybe only rig has the best use of it with shot being so close to it.
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> > > > > 2533274968707582;3:
> > > > > > 2533274803493024;2:
> > > > > > I thought you could melee to cancel the pickup animation? It’s really not that long either way. As a casual player, I like it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 343 removed that ability, so you are forced to go through the animation to apply it. For pro gameplay, this feature makes grabbing power ups so much harder. But I respect your stance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve found crouching will cancel the animation still
> > >
> > >
> > > Post a clip of it if that’s the case, because I’ve never cancelled an animation from simply crouching.
> >
> >
> > I think it might need to be a power slide. I’m not sure it was kind of a fluke I picked up an over shield and there wasn’t an animation and I don’t know what game it was to check
>
>
> Even if there wasn’t an animation to supplement you picking up the power up, there is still a moment of time where you still need to apply it to your armor (like OS). The boost from the power up isn’t instant from the moment you grab the power up, which is the problem, not necessarily the animation itself.
It did feel like it was instant there was no charge up
Using your thruster cancels the animation, and as for the punch thing, you need to do it on the exact frame now, making it insanely difficult to pull off.
You used to be able to switch weapons to cancel too, I haven’t tried that in ages tho…
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> Using your thruster cancels the animation, and as for the punch thing, you need to do it on the exact frame now, making it insanely difficult to pull off.
>
> You used to be able to switch weapons to cancel too, I haven’t tried that in ages tho…
As for static timers, it sounds like an idea that a noob came up with when he got salty. I believe they should stay as they are, as they have been since the beginning…
> 2533274888753908;13:
> Using your thruster cancels the animation, and as for the punch thing, you need to do it on the exact frame now, making it insanely difficult to pull off.
>
> You used to be able to switch weapons to cancel too, I haven’t tried that in ages tho…
The animation itself isn’t the problem, but the time between grabbing the power up and being able to apply it to your armor in order to be active is enough time for enemies to kill you and burn the power up. Melees no longer cancel the animation, as mentioned within some patch notes a while back.
> As for static timers, it sounds like an idea that a noob came up with when he got salty. I believe they should stay as they are, as they have been since the beginning…
Like that’s a great point to explain why dynamic spawns are better than static spawns. Why do you make it hard to be taken seriously with that statement? I’ve explained why static spawns play better than dynamic, now it’s your turn to look at and counter my argument.
On the topic of power up timers I would disagree. Contesting or fighting over power ups is a big deal for obvious reasons. If team A gets power up X they shouldn’t be doing so without team B knowing about it. If team B doesn’t have a clue when power up X was picked up I’m going out on a limb and say a mistake was made somewhere. Quite frankly, such mistakes do and should have consequences. Furthermore, acquiring power ups hinges on map control, much like everything else. If a team is unaware of timers it’s because they’re already being outplayed (whether it be due to mistakes or the other team exhibiting superior decision making, shooting, teamwork, etc).
I’m on the fence about power up animations. On one hand it may seem disappointing to see a power up end up burned. On the other hand it arguably adds more depth to gameplay because it raises the risk associated with power ups and adds another level to decision making.
> What 343 needs to implement is this: static weapon respawns and instant pick up power ups. In static weapon respawns, the power up will spawn every 2 minutes of the game, regardless of when it was grabbed. This enforces the idea of equal starts and allows the disadvantageous team to at least plan ahead for the power up since the respawn is predictable, instead of the team who grabbed it first being able to walk away with it uncontested throughout the game. Instant pick up power ups (like halo CE-3) allows the power up to be immediately utilized and grants the opportunity of fighting back after putting yourself in a poor position to even grab it in the first place. Now teams will be more focused on grabbing power ups and can push for it more aggressively because of its instant effect once controlled. This also leaves room for the speed boost and damage boost to be put in pro game play because of the user’s ability to efficiently escape or combat the enemy.
what you say makes sense. But I find static timers take a certain tactical dimension out of the game.
Put it like this, if the dynamic timer was replaced with a static timer then it gives players one less thing to remember, all they have to do is check the time every now and then to find the time powerups come up. I do like the idea of rewarding them for grabbing the powerup without being spotted in fact it’s a great idea. But back to the timer, by using dynamic timers it takes more to remember the time and, if you know what you’re doing it lets you predict the time or even look at the common times (11:55, 9:50, 7:45, 5:30, 3:20 and 1:10) to try and predict it
> 2535446485707379;16:
> On the topic of power up timers I would disagree. Contesting or fighting over power ups is a big deal for obvious reasons. If team A gets power up X they shouldn’t be doing so without team B knowing about it. If team B doesn’t have a clue when power up X was picked up I’m going out on a limb and say a mistake was made somewhere. Quite frankly, such mistakes do and should have consequences. Furthermore, acquiring power ups hinges on map control, much like everything else. If a team is unaware of timers it’s because they’re already being outplayed (whether it be due to mistakes or the other team exhibiting superior decision making, shooting, teamwork, etc).
>
> I’m on the fence about power up animations. On one hand it may seem disappointing to see a power up end up burned. On the other hand it arguably adds more depth to gameplay because it raises the risk associated with power ups and adds another level to decision making.
Adding dynamic timers to power ups gives the better team more advantages than simply establishing map control if they happen to grab the first power up. The consequence of losing map control should already be enough for players to understand that this mistake is significant in the enemy team winning the game, so why would you further burden the losing team by forcing them to guess on power up spawns, especially when the power weapons go by static timers? Furthermore, adding dynamic timers deviates from the main skill in halo in regards to maintaining control of power ups/the map, and instead just focuses on how deceptive the team can be in manipulating power up spawns. While this certainly sounds interesting on paper, the overall result is a bigger snowball effect and less engagements revolving around the power up because the other team has this burden of knowledge. It certainly isn’t entertaining to watch pro league matches of team constantly grabbing the power up on spawn without any fights breaking out because of this.
The goal of static timers is to direct more combat flow to the power ups and maintain the idea that players must continuously fight to establish map control, instead of simply needing to win the first engagement to secure those power ups and overall control of it. Dynamic timers simply make it easier for the winning team and harder for the losing team to execute this goal.
Now with power up animations, you must understand how once the user dies, the power up is no longer active and can’t be utilized by anyone else in the game for the next 2 minutes. With this fact, it’s important that players are given the opportunity to make the most of this power up, unless they were significantly out played. Power up animations just make this possibility more frequent as players can’t properly defend themselves while grabbing the power up for about 2 seconds. The risk as a result of this along with “another level to decision making” was never needed in game play because you already had the risk of letting it get into the enemy’s hands due to poor positioning. Again, why should we burden the team who managed to grab this from the other team by giving some animation to force more reliance on teammates (when individual skill as seen in CE created more depth)? Instant pick ups reduce the factor of burning the power up and makes combat more interesting by giving the better team a bigger opportunity to utilize the power up.
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> >
>
>
> what you say makes sense. But I find static timers take a certain tactical dimension out of the game.
>
> Put it like this, if the dynamic timer was replaced with a static timer then it gives players one less thing to remember, all they have to do is check the time every now and then to find the time powerups come up. I do like the idea of rewarding them for grabbing the powerup without being spotted in fact it’s a great idea. But back to the timer, by using dynamic timers it takes more to remember the time and, if you know what you’re doing it lets you predict the time or even look at the common times (11:55, 9:50, 7:45, 5:30, 3:20 and 1:10) to try and predict it
With static timers, the skill is now emphasized in being able to consistently secure the power up, which is certainly more interesting in game play than simply needing to memorize spawn times so that you can grab it uncontested. Dynamic spawns just add arbitrary burden of knowledge for the losing team and makes it easier for the winning team to secure the power ups. It’s certainly harder for players to be able to grab power ups if everyone knows the spawn times, so why shouldn’t the game help emphasize more constant battles for these power ups?
If you’re truly an advocate of equal starts in halo, then you must understand how it extends to more than your starting weapons and also regards the ability to equally predict power ups/power weapons…
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> > 2535446485707379;16:
> > On the topic of power up timers I would disagree. Contesting or fighting over power ups is a big deal for obvious reasons. If team A gets power up X they shouldn’t be doing so without team B knowing about it. If team B doesn’t have a clue when power up X was picked up I’m going out on a limb and say a mistake was made somewhere. Quite frankly, such mistakes do and should have consequences. Furthermore, acquiring power ups hinges on map control, much like everything else. If a team is unaware of timers it’s because they’re already being outplayed (whether it be due to mistakes or the other team exhibiting superior decision making, shooting, teamwork, etc).
> >
> > I’m on the fence about power up animations. On one hand it may seem disappointing to see a power up end up burned. On the other hand it arguably adds more depth to gameplay because it raises the risk associated with power ups and adds another level to decision making.
>
>
> Adding dynamic timers to power ups gives the better team more advantages than simply establishing map control if they happen to grab the first power up. The consequence of losing map control should already be enough for players to understand that this mistake is significant in the enemy team winning the game, so why would you further burden the losing team by forcing them to guess on power up spawns, especially when the power weapons go by static timers? Furthermore, adding dynamic timers deviates from the main skill in halo in regards to maintaining control of power ups/the map, and instead just focuses on how deceptive the team can be in manipulating power up spawns. While this certainly sounds interesting on paper, the overall result is a bigger snowball effect and less engagements revolving around the power up because the other team has this burden of knowledge. It certainly isn’t entertaining to watch pro league matches of team constantly grabbing the power up on spawn without any fights breaking out because of this.
>
> The goal of static timers is to direct more combat flow to the power ups and maintain the idea that players must continuously fight to establish map control, instead of simply needing to win the first engagement to secure those power ups and overall control of it. Dynamic timers simply make it easier for the winning team and harder for the losing team to execute this goal.
>
> Now with power up animations, you must understand how once the user dies, the power up is no longer active and can’t be utilized by anyone else in the game for the next 2 minutes. With this fact, it’s important that players are given the opportunity to make the most of this power up, unless they were significantly out played. Power up animations just make this possibility more frequent as players can’t properly defend themselves while grabbing the power up for about 2 seconds. The risk as a result of this along with “another level to decision making” was never needed in game play because you already had the risk of letting it get into the enemy’s hands due to poor positioning. Again, why should we burden the team who managed to grab this from the other team by giving some animation to force more reliance on teammates (when individual skill as seen in CE created more depth)? Instant pick ups reduce the factor of burning the power up and makes combat more interesting by giving the better team a bigger opportunity to utilize the power up.
It’s about information and who should have it. Map control is the biggest factor in determing who wins the game, and it isn’t only because it allows stronger setups, spawn control, objective control, etc. It provides superior information too… I see no reason knowledge of power up/weapons timers should be omitted from this information advantage. Truth be told I doubt it would make a significant impact anyway. The only way teams break spawn traps and regain map control is by outplaying the other team. Power up timers being dynamic or static won’t change this fact. Knowing the exact moment those shiny toys are going to respawn isn’t helping if you lack the control to act on it.
I also have concerns about your propsal due to how teams might react to the implications of it. Case and point, team A gains a significant control advantage and sits on a power up until just before the respawn timer expires, at which point they can effectively have two players pick it up. I think the ability to do this would be problematic for a multitude of reasons.
In regards to the animation, as things currently stand it adds depth because it isn’t a matter of being first to pick it up. In order to secure the power up you really have to establish control over the surrounding area, pick and choose when to make an attempt for it, determine if denying it to the other team is worth the risk of burning it, etc. These are all fairly dynamic choices. By removing the animation you reduce the only important factor to simply getting to it first. It just seems like it only serves to simplify the game.