Why all the Loadout hate?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Yes, yes, Waypointians, another one of these threads.

I’m wondering why you people hate the prospect of Loadouts in the Halo Series. Be as specific as possible, please, and try to make sense.

Now, to get a perspective of my opinion, I am biased towards loadouts, but I only like Halo Reach’s Loadout style.

What I can’t get is, why all the directed hate seems to be focused at Reach, where most default loadouts were only based on armor abilities; Players otherwise spawned with the same weaponry. The exceptions to this were Firefight and Invasion, but they were such a small percentage of the actually played online game that it hardly mattered.

Now, Halo 4 I can understand. The loadout system is more than a little unbalanced, and cheap combinations are frequent (Noob Combo on spawn, anyone?), and there are perks.

But to say loadouts ruin the entire franchise? Please, explain to me how you feel on the subject. Both positive and negative feedback.

2

Love the flavor personal loadouts bring. I’m open to the Plasma Pistol removed and the Boltshot either removed or tweaked, and even the Plasma Grenades, but man, everyone HATES them.

Each loadout weapon can be extremely effective when you learn their specific use (ie Pulse Grenades, or Storm Rifle etc) and everyone calls that unbalanced, just because everyone doesn’t start off with the same gear.

3

I’m all for loadouts in Spartan Ops and some non-traditional multiplayer modes, but I don’t believe that they have a place in standard multiplayer gameplay.

I will say that the idea of loadouts in any game is enticing, and I would love for them to have a more ingrained place in Halo. We all have to admit that customizing your own soldier and testing those loadouts against other players’ provides immersive gameplay. I know this parallel is often frowned upon, but this is indeed one of the reasons why Call of Duty is so successful.

In short, loadouts shouldn’t have the prominent place in Halo multiplayer (which was Halo 4’s mistake), but I believe that the system should have a permanent place in some unique modes.

4

> Love the flavor personal loadouts bring. I’m open to the Plasma Pistol removed and the Boltshot either removed or tweaked, and even the Plasma Grenades, but man, everyone HATES them.
>
> Each loadout weapon can be extremely effective when you learn their specific use (ie Pulse Grenades, or Storm Rifle etc) and everyone calls that unbalanced, just because everyone doesn’t start off with the same gear.

What flavor? The sense of Limitless creation only to be dropped in with everyone using the same Over Powered weapon, game after game?

I get it, some people want to start out with an AR, and that’s why the ‘Y’ button is there for. Don’t want to use the BR? Okay, switch weapons. Easy as that. There is no need to sacrifice clean and neat balance for a few people who like the Assault Rifle.

There is no flavor. There is only the rotten taste of unbalance and bland, limited gameplay that Halo 4 offers. You can’t pick up grenades off the ground if you want your shields to take less than 5 minutes to fully charge. C’mon. Do you guys really think that Custom Loadouts is the way to go? Oh sure, there is 20,000 of you on Halo 4, but that does NOT include the hundreds of thousands who abandoned Halo as soon as it become the scourge of the Online Game World- The modern shooter with a Space Twist.

5

They introduce too much randomness and hurt some of the core gameplay elements of Halo. Why exactly should someone get to have their shields recharge faster? Why should someone be able to reload faster, giving someone an unpredictable edge when getting into a fight? Why should someone get more starting ammo and more ammo for weapons they find on the map, thus breaking the limited ammo aspect that keeps certain power weapons in check balance-wise? Why should someone be able to keep sprinting when shot, effectively destroying the balance 343i implemented to balance sprint out in the first place? Why should you be able to spawn with a plasma pistol and be able to ruin vehicle combat on a whim?

To me, a lot of Loadouts just seems to boil down to being some big mess. If you give everybody equal spawns, then it comes down to who is the better team. There is a point to be made that this caters to players individual playstyles, but then how do you create balance that also caters to all of those individual playstyles? You really can’t. As I said previously, you can’t strategize on unknowns, which is what players loaded up with perks based on their individual playstyles end up being. You really won’t know what you go up against until you find them…and then it just comes down to shooting at them in the hope they die. The old playstyle actually did more to make players come up with strategies.

Say you like sniping. In Halo 2 and 3, you would have to get the sniper and actually had to find decent spots to hide at and make your shots count given that you had limited ammo. With Halo 4, you can now become invisible at the drop of a hat and put on a perk that gives you extra ammo that also gives weapons you pick up and get in ordinance extra ammo as well. You aren’t so much creating a strategy as you are having your hand held by the game. Becoming invisible whenever you want and getting more ammo arbitrary doesn’t require effort.

I understand Halo is a game and we should just have fun, but why is actually learning and improving oneself in the game not fun? I will say I have no problem with loadouts in things like Invasion or Firefight, but the core experience should be like it used to be. After all, with the old way we could have maps as big or as small as we wanted, no need to upscale maps just to facilitate the use of sprint, another big problem the loadout system had.

6

> What flavor? The sense of Limitless creation only to be dropped in with everyone using the same Over Powered weapon, game after game?
>
> I get it, some people want to start out with an AR, and that’s why the ‘Y’ button is there for. Don’t want to use the BR? Okay, switch weapons. Easy as that. There is no need to sacrifice clean and neat balance for a few people who like the Assault Rifle.
>
> There is no flavor. There is only the rotten taste of unbalance and bland, limited gameplay that Halo 4 offers. You can’t pick up grenades off the ground if you want your shields to take less than 5 minutes to fully charge. C’mon. Do you guys really think that Custom Loadouts is the way to go? Oh sure, there is 20,000 of you on Halo 4, but that does NOT include the hundreds of thousands who abandoned Halo as soon as it become the scourge of the Online Game World- The modern shooter with a Space Twist.

What Halo are you playing? I constantly see mixtures of all the loadout weapons offered. Honestly, it seems like most of the people on here just want a new, shiny Halo 3. And before they say it, I’ll finish what they were about to say: “Oh, no I want the core Halo CE-3 gameplay expanded upon”. What a cop-out answer. Wait til 2017, when Halo 3 Anniversary comes out.

What are these innovations you imagine?

A lot of the people here aren’t even willing to budge on the idea of having both.

7

> What Halo are you playing? I constantly see mixtures of all the loadout weapons offered. Honestly, it seems like most of the people on here just want a new, shiny Halo 3. And before they say it, I’ll finish what they were about to say: “Oh, no I want the core Halo CE-3 gameplay expanded upon”. What a cop-out answer. Wait til 2017, when Halo 3 Anniversary comes out.
>
> What are these innovations you imagine?
>
> A lot of the people here aren’t even willing to budge on the idea of having both.

“Oh, no I want Halo 4’s custom loadouts to be expanded upon because it is innovation and offers way more variety whilst sacrificing any form of spartan to spartan balance once found in Halos 2-3”

What a cop-out answer. Wait until you and about 500 people are the only ones playing Halo 5 then you will see the fault in that kind of mindset.

8

Edited by Moderator - Please do not flame/attack others.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

The Rookie, Decepticon, I agree with your points regarding Halo 4. But, please tell me why they are hated in Halo Reach. Thanks for being specific, however- In the case of DecepticonCobra.

Rookie, you made it sound more like a poorly thought out rant. So, tell me why you hate Halo Reach’s loadout system, too. You know, after you take a breather for about an hour. And stop acting like everyone else is a complete idiot-it makes you seem like more of one.

9

> They introduce too much randomness and hurt some of the core gameplay elements of Halo. Why exactly should someone get to have their shields recharge faster? Why should someone be able to reload faster, giving someone an unpredictable edge when getting into a fight? Why should someone get more starting ammo and more ammo for weapons they find on the map, thus breaking the limited ammo aspect that keeps certain power weapons in check balance-wise? Why should someone be able to keep sprinting when shot, effectively destroying the balance 343i implemented to balance sprint out in the first place? Why should you be able to spawn with a plasma pistol and be able to ruin vehicle combat on a whim?
>
> To me, a lot of Loadouts just seems to boil down to being some big mess. If you give everybody equal spawns, then it comes down to who is the better team. There is a point to be made that this caters to players individual playstyles, but then how do you create balance that also caters to all of those individual playstyles? You really can’t. As I said previously, you can’t strategize on unknowns, which is what players loaded up with perks based on their individual playstyles end up being. You really won’t know what you go up against until you find them…and then it just comes down to shooting at them in the hope they die. The old playstyle actually did more to make players come up with strategies.
>
> Say you like sniping. In Halo 2 and 3, you would have to get the sniper and actually had to find decent spots to hide at and make your shots count given that you had limited ammo. With Halo 4, you can now become invisible at the drop of a hat and put on a perk that gives you extra ammo that also gives weapons you pick up and get in ordinance extra ammo as well. You aren’t so much creating a strategy as you are having your hand held by the game. Becoming invisible whenever you want and getting more ammo arbitrary doesn’t require effort.
>
> I understand Halo is a game and we should just have fun, but why is actually learning and improving oneself in the game not fun? I will say I have no problem with loadouts in things like Invasion or Firefight, but the core experience should be like it used to be. After all, with the old way we could have maps as big or as small as we wanted, no need to upscale maps just to facilitate the use of sprint, another big problem the loadout system had.

>>>>inb4copyandpasteresponse

But so very true. Universal loadouts have no place in Halo, but with the addition of gametypes like Invasion, there may be a use for them, in limited form of course.

10

> > They introduce too much randomness and hurt some of the core gameplay elements of Halo. Why exactly should someone get to have their shields recharge faster? Why should someone be able to reload faster, giving someone an unpredictable edge when getting into a fight? Why should someone get more starting ammo and more ammo for weapons they find on the map, thus breaking the limited ammo aspect that keeps certain power weapons in check balance-wise? Why should someone be able to keep sprinting when shot, effectively destroying the balance 343i implemented to balance sprint out in the first place? Why should you be able to spawn with a plasma pistol and be able to ruin vehicle combat on a whim?
> >
> > To me, a lot of Loadouts just seems to boil down to being some big mess. If you give everybody equal spawns, then it comes down to who is the better team. There is a point to be made that this caters to players individual playstyles, but then how do you create balance that also caters to all of those individual playstyles? You really can’t. As I said previously, you can’t strategize on unknowns, which is what players loaded up with perks based on their individual playstyles end up being. You really won’t know what you go up against until you find them…and then it just comes down to shooting at them in the hope they die. The old playstyle actually did more to make players come up with strategies.
> >
> > Say you like sniping. In Halo 2 and 3, you would have to get the sniper and actually had to find decent spots to hide at and make your shots count given that you had limited ammo. With Halo 4, you can now become invisible at the drop of a hat and put on a perk that gives you extra ammo that also gives weapons you pick up and get in ordinance extra ammo as well. You aren’t so much creating a strategy as you are having your hand held by the game. Becoming invisible whenever you want and getting more ammo arbitrary doesn’t require effort.
> >
> > I understand Halo is a game and we should just have fun, but why is actually learning and improving oneself in the game not fun? I will say I have no problem with loadouts in things like Invasion or Firefight, but the core experience should be like it used to be. After all, with the old way we could have maps as big or as small as we wanted, no need to upscale maps just to facilitate the use of sprint, another big problem the loadout system had.
>
> >>>>inb4copyandpasteresponse
>
> But so very true. Universal loadouts have no place in Halo, but with the addition of gametypes like Invasion, there may be a use for them, in limited form of course.

Have you even PLAYED Reach, Rook? At all? Because this just concerns Halo 4. Make your own post, please, and don’t steal.

11

>

Well, limited Loadouts still offer randomness but not as much as Halo 4’s completely customizable loadout system.

I believe AAs should be taken out completely and if we MUST have loadouts (for the Reach younglings who know no other way) then limited loadouts will be the way to go.

12

> > > They introduce too much randomness and hurt some of the core gameplay elements of Halo. Why exactly should someone get to have their shields recharge faster? Why should someone be able to reload faster, giving someone an unpredictable edge when getting into a fight? Why should someone get more starting ammo and more ammo for weapons they find on the map, thus breaking the limited ammo aspect that keeps certain power weapons in check balance-wise? Why should someone be able to keep sprinting when shot, effectively destroying the balance 343i implemented to balance sprint out in the first place? Why should you be able to spawn with a plasma pistol and be able to ruin vehicle combat on a whim?
> > >
> > > To me, a lot of Loadouts just seems to boil down to being some big mess. If you give everybody equal spawns, then it comes down to who is the better team. There is a point to be made that this caters to players individual playstyles, but then how do you create balance that also caters to all of those individual playstyles? You really can’t. As I said previously, you can’t strategize on unknowns, which is what players loaded up with perks based on their individual playstyles end up being. You really won’t know what you go up against until you find them…and then it just comes down to shooting at them in the hope they die. The old playstyle actually did more to make players come up with strategies.
> > >
> > > Say you like sniping. In Halo 2 and 3, you would have to get the sniper and actually had to find decent spots to hide at and make your shots count given that you had limited ammo. With Halo 4, you can now become invisible at the drop of a hat and put on a perk that gives you extra ammo that also gives weapons you pick up and get in ordinance extra ammo as well. You aren’t so much creating a strategy as you are having your hand held by the game. Becoming invisible whenever you want and getting more ammo arbitrary doesn’t require effort.
> > >
> > > I understand Halo is a game and we should just have fun, but why is actually learning and improving oneself in the game not fun? I will say I have no problem with loadouts in things like Invasion or Firefight, but the core experience should be like it used to be. After all, with the old way we could have maps as big or as small as we wanted, no need to upscale maps just to facilitate the use of sprint, another big problem the loadout system had.
> >
> > >>>>inb4copyandpasteresponse
> >
> > But so very true. Universal loadouts have no place in Halo, but with the addition of gametypes like Invasion, there may be a use for them, in limited form of course.
>
> Have you even PLAYED Reach, Rook? At all? Because this just concerns Halo 4. Make your own post, please, and don’t steal.

In squeaker voice Why yes I have Arashi Calunata, quite a lot of it actually.

what did I steal? NOTHING. I was rather pointing out that DecepticonCobra had simply copied his response from another forum post which you probably got the idea for this Topic Post from, so shame on you.

13

> > What Halo are you playing? I constantly see mixtures of all the loadout weapons offered. Honestly, it seems like most of the people on here just want a new, shiny Halo 3. And before they say it, I’ll finish what they were about to say: “Oh, no I want the core Halo CE-3 gameplay expanded upon”. What a cop-out answer. Wait til 2017, when Halo 3 Anniversary comes out.
> >
> > What are these innovations you imagine?
> >
> > A lot of the people here aren’t even willing to budge on the idea of having both.
>
> “Oh, no I want Halo 4’s custom loadouts to be expanded upon because it is innovation and offers way more variety whilst sacrificing any form of spartan to spartan balance once found in Halos 2-3”
>
> What a cop-out answer. Wait until you and about 500 people are the only ones playing Halo 5 then you will see the fault in that kind of mindset.

I especially liked the part where you dodged the question about the new innovations your ideal Halo Xbox One would carry, and instead just tried attacking my argument.

14

> >
>
> Well, limited Loadouts still offer randomness but not as much as Halo 4’s completely customizable loadout system.
>
> I believe AAs should be taken out completely and if we MUST have loadouts (for the Reach younglings who know no other way) then limited loadouts will be the way to go.

If you take out AA’s, then loadouts will thus have no reason for existing in standard MP in the sense that Reach’s MP worked.

Now, I fail to see your problem with all AA’s. It’s as though you consider abilities like thruster pack and hologram (By far the most innocent of the AA’s) to be hellspawn itself. I can understand three-Four abilites - Jetpack, AL, PV, and AC- But you tend to have a complete hatred of all of them.

So, before you start frothing at the mouth, here’s my concept, specifically for you, Rookie;

Loadouts work as follows (Following standard BTB Rules)

Loadout 1; Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Frag Grenades, Thruster Pack
Loadout 2; Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Frag Grenades, Hologram
Loadout 3; Hidden
Loadout 4; Hidden
Loadout 5; Hidden

The other 3 loadout slots, the ones listed ‘Hidden’, would be locked in all competitive matchmaking playlists (And 1 & 2 would be locked as well, in ‘Classic’ mode). That’s it. No perks, no different-weapon starts, just two fair abilities.

Now, other abilities could be available as on-map pickups, but only a limited ammount (Two, max). Active Camo would be limited to the glowing blue orb it once was.

Do you think you could live with this system? Or not?

EDIT; First off, I didn’t get from this thread from anything Dec posted-I got this idea from what YOU post. Second off, I’m sorry I asked if you had even played Halo Reach in that manner. It was uncalled for on my part. BUT, you can go somewhere isolated for mocking me on it, instead of acting like a reasonable adult.

15

> The Rookie, Decepticon, I agree with your points regarding Halo 4. But, please tell me why they are hated in Halo Reach. Thanks for being specific, however- In the case of DecepticonCobra.

Similar reasons really. Sprint allowed people to run away from fights, which you could argue was a good thing, but it prolonged fights and turned Halo into a cat and mouse game. Active Camo allowing anyone to just become invisible wasn’t really balanced as opposed to the already reliable active camo power-up. Armor Lock was a huge problem since it had tons of benefits and nearly zero downfalls. Sure, you were rooted to the ground, but between becoming invincible, coming out of it with a brief “frosting” of invincibility, being able to quick turn around and melee an enemy, being able to destroy vehicles and giving off an EMP? Not much of a trade-off. Drop Shield was better, but being able to heal your health and everyone in it seemed excessive and could be spammed to create a cluster of shields. Sure, you could just ram a vehicle through, but this process made Objective games grind to a halt. The others were mostly useless compared to the rest.

Which is odd since I liked playing Reach, but it had huge problems and I sure didn’t play it as much as I did Halo 3.

16

Personally, I enjoy loadouts, but I can’t say Halo 4 didn’t go overboard with it. My idea for them would be that they should be restricted to UNSC weapons, especially since we play as Spartans. Have a primary choice be between the DMR, BR, and AR, and secondary be the pistol, SMG, and maybe a close range alternative. One frag grenade if they are like mini-nukes again, or two if they are weaker. If Elites are playable then there can be a similar selection of Covenant loudout weapons as well, otherwise they can just be map spawns that are slightly buffed from what they are now.

Would also like to see the gametypes split into two categories. A standard mode which could have things like loadouts and such, and then an Arena mode. As the name suggest, Arena mode could be like how pre-Reach Halos were: Same weapon and stat starts, if AAs return and can be made to function like one-time-use equipment then they can be map pick ups, and other things more fitting to a classic arena shooter.

17

> > > The Rookie, Decepticon, I agree with your points regarding Halo 4. But, please tell me why they are hated in Halo Reach. Thanks for being specific, however- In the case of DecepticonCobra.
> > >
> > > Rookie, you made it sound more like a poorly thought out rant. So, tell me why you hate Halo Reach’s loadout system, too. You know, after you take a breather for about an hour. And stop acting like everyone else is a complete idiot-it makes you seem like more of one.
> >
> > Well, limited Loadouts still offer randomness but not as much as Halo 4’s completely customizable loadout system.
> >
> > I believe AAs should be taken out completely and if we MUST have loadouts (for the Reach younglings who know no other way) then limited loadouts will be the way to go.
>
> If you take out AA’s, then loadouts will thus have no reason for existing in standard MP in the sense that Reach’s MP worked.
>
> Now, I fail to see your problem with all AA’s. It’s as though you consider abilities like thruster pack and hologram (By far the most innocent of the AA’s) to be hellspawn itself. I can understand three-Four abilites - Jetpack, AL, PV, and AC- But you tend to have a complete hatred of all of them.
>
> So, before you start frothing at the mouth, here’s my concept, specifically for you, Rookie;
>
> Loadouts work as follows (Following standard BTB Rules)
>
> Loadout 1; Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Frag Grenades, Thruster Pack
> Loadout 2; Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, Frag Grenades, Hologram
> Loadout 3; Hidden
> Loadout 4; Hidden
> Loadout 5; Hidden
>
> The other 3 loadout slots, the ones listed ‘Hidden’, would be locked in all competitive matchmaking playlists (And 1 & 2 would be locked as well, in ‘Classic’ mode). That’s it. No perks, no different-weapon starts, just two fair abilities.
>
> Now, other abilities could be available as on-map pickups, but only a limited ammount (Two, max). Active Camo would be limited to the glowing blue orb it once was.
>
> Do you think you could live with this system? Or not?
>
> EDIT; First off, I didn’t get from this thread from anything Dec posted-I got this idea from what YOU post. Second off, I’m sorry I asked if you had even played Halo Reach in that manner. It was uncalled for on my part. BUT, you can go somewhere isolated for mocking me on it, instead of acting like a reasonable adult.

Like I said, Look at Reach, then look back at Halo 4. What do you see? Decline! Reach was the beginning of the end and the quicker you realize that, the better. Limited Loadouts are better and more conventional then what Halo 4 had, but that does not change the fact that there will always be “perks” in your case, AAs that will make the game unbalanced. If you are so willing to stoop to the point of having limited loadouts like what you spoke of, then why is there a need for them at all?

18

If you are so reluctant to have loadouts in the game, which knowing 343, we will have them since it is “there Halo” and not “Our Halo” then sure. If I were the boss, God forbid, and if we “Had” to have a loadout system, then a very minuscule, non-gameplay disrupting system like the one you have provided would be better in every shape and form when compared to Halo 4’s “Modernfuckeverything-that-came-before-it-shooter”

There, you got your wish, I have conceded to your demands for a loadout system.

19

I’m willing to stoop to limited loadouts because the loadout mechanic would still be in the game, just in a neutered fashion outside of custom games. It’s exactly how standard Reach loadouts worked, but yet you say that it was the end-all for Halo. It wasn’t.

If anything was, it was the oversaturation of shooters that happened to be more popular at the time. By the time Halo Reach came out, Call of Duty had released TWO full games. This, coupled with the lack of improvements from ODST and Wars, attributed to the game’s demise. NOT loadouts. They simply didn’t have nearly enough of an impact in Reach to cause an entire franchise’s downfall.

Halo 2 and 3 weren’t the golden–Yoinking!- gooses of the Halo franchises. The truth was, they had a successful and unique multiplayer system called matchmaking, something borrowed by almost every FPS since that time. That is the ONLY reason they succeeded on the level they did. Halo Combat Evolved was given a sequel because it’s gameplay was good enough to warrant it, Reach was merely a victim of changing times, and the fall of the former FPS king. I’m not being ignorant, I’m not being blind, I’m being blunt.

Halo 4, for all intents and purposes, was actually a very good game-not as a Halo game, just as a game- And it’s just as much of a victim of Reach.

But people like you? You are more than willing to tearing out a plethora of functions related to gameplay just so you’ll be happy, and eliminate a large part of the fresher fanbase because of it. It’s not just foolish, it’s selfish.

20

> Like I said, Look at Reach, then look back at Halo 4. What do you see? Decline! Reach was the beginning of the end and the quicker you realize that, the better. Limited Loadouts are better and more conventional then what Halo 4 had, but that does not change the fact that there will always be “perks” in your case, AAs that will make the game unbalanced. If you are so willing to stoop to the point of having limited loadouts like what you spoke of, then why is there a need for them at all?

Never once did it occur to you that it might be because once upon a time Halo 3 was the final Halo game? Look at how the new Star Wars trilogy was critically received compared to the original trilogy.

Now, I’m not saying that is the sole reason that there’s been a decline in interest, as Halo 4 has obviously rubbed a lot of the people on here the wrong way. But you don’t seem to see how it’s definitely a factor.

Also: Do you literally just want Halo 2/3 (possibly Halo 3/Reach hybrid?) with more weapons and new graphics? If not, do you have any ideas whatsoever, or are you expecting a new, innovative X factor to appear from thin air? This is a serious question.

Now, I’ll wait for you to attack my character or something and not answer the question in any form of remote detail.