I’ve seen a lot of people bash this game for straying away from its arena roots by comparing it to COD. COD has loadouts, yes, but isn’t it an arena shooter as well? Gears 2/3 had loadouts and it was always an arena shooter as well.
Loadouts aren’t really a bad thing, as long as the weapons are balanced. What makes it less competetive or fair?
Now as a disclaimer I’m not saying that this game is the holy grail and that it’s a flawless gem in every way. There is always room to improve.
I dont see how cod or halo 4 can be considered an arena shooter when the general idea of an arena shooter is
-All players spawn with equal opportunity when it comes to player ability and potential allowing for predictability in encounters.
-Players are not given weapons, items or abilities through pre-selected loadouts but instead must fight to attain the ones that are placed on the map.
-Weapons and items are placed on the map in such a way as to influence map movement and player positioning.
-There are no defined roles or specializations for players in the game; everyone is the same and only their play style and skill can influence their performance in game.
(These are not my words but they do give the idea around the idea of an arena shooter)
> I dont see how cod or halo 4 can be considered an arena shooter when the general idea of an arena shooter is
>
> -All players spawn with equal opportunity when it comes to player ability and potential allowing for predictability in encounters.
> -Players are not given weapons, items or abilities through pre-selected loadouts but instead must fight to attain the ones that are placed on the map.
> -Weapons and items are placed on the map in such a way as to influence map movement and player positioning.
> -There are no defined roles or specializations for players in the game; everyone is the same and only their play style and skill can influence their performance in game.
>
> (These are not my words but they do give the idea around the idea of an arena shooter)
If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
> If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
No they are not on equal footing, as long as the weapons you spawn with have slightly different kill times, ranges, ect, then the players will NEVER be on equal footing. This also applies to any abilities a player can spawn with as well.
> > If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
>
> No they are not on equal footing, as long as the weapons you spawn with have slightly different kill times, ranges, ect, then the players will NEVER be on equal footing.
I don’t think an arena shooter has to have all those requirements. Loadouts when balanced are fair. You are free to choose whichever weapon you desire and you play to that weapon’s strengths. Gears of War was still very much an arena shooter even when loadouts were brought into the game.
> If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
I don’t think they can be balanced.
> I don’t think an arena shooter has to have all those requirements. Loadouts when balanced are fair. You are free to choose whichever weapon you desire and you play to that weapon’s strengths. Gears of War was still very much an arena shooter even when loadouts were brought into the game.
For the most part they do need have those requirements, and i could care less about Gears of War which is which is why I didn’t address it in my first statement. I was mainly focusing on cod and halo 4 which barely have any of the requirements to be considered an arena shooter.
> > If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
>
> I don’t think they can be balanced.
Why not? It’s a lot of work but it can be done. I don’t believe a game is an arena shooter only if it’s stripped to a simple and barebones setting.
> > I don’t think an arena shooter has to have all those requirements. Loadouts when balanced are fair. You are free to choose whichever weapon you desire and you play to that weapon’s strengths. Gears of War was still very much an arena shooter even when loadouts were brought into the game.
>
> For the most part they do need have those requirements, and i could care less about Gears of War which is which is why I didn’t address it in my first statement. I was mainly focusing on cod and halo 4 which barely have any of the requirements to be considered an arena shooter.
I’m just talking about why loadouts aren’t so bad, it really doesn’t matter which game we talk about and yes I believe that cod and halo are both arena shooters.
> I’m just talking about why loadouts aren’t so bad, it really doesn’t matter which game we talk about
Loadouts work differently in different games so yes, it does matter what game we talk about.
> and yes I believe that cod and halo are both arena shooters.
Unfortunately it doesn’t matter what you believe, if the game fails to meet basic requirements to be put into a certain genre/ category then it doesn’t belong in that said genre/ category.
> > > If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
> >
> > I don’t think they can be balanced.
>
> <mark>Why not? It’s a lot of work but it can be done.</mark> I don’t believe a game is an arena shooter only if it’s stripped to a simple and barebones setting.
Because they are inherently random.
> > I’m just talking about why loadouts aren’t so bad, it really doesn’t matter which game we talk about
>
> Loadouts work differently in different games so yes, it does matter what game we talk about.
>
>
>
> > and yes I believe that cod and halo are both arena shooters.
>
> Unfortunately it doesn’t matter what you believe, if the game fails to meet basic requirements to be put into a certain genre/ category then it doesn’t belong in that said genre/ category.
The talk is about loadouts not being bad for fairness and competetiveness, obviously they work differently in every game.
> > > > If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
> > >
> > > I don’t think they can be balanced.
> >
> > <mark>Why not? It’s a lot of work but it can be done.</mark> I don’t believe a game is an arena shooter only if it’s stripped to a simple and barebones setting.
>
> Because they are inherently random.
What’s so random about 1 guy having a BR and another having a Carbine? It just lets the player play more how they want while the guns are still balanced against each other.
> The talk is about loadouts not being bad for fairness and competetiveness, obviously they work differently in every game.
I already have discussed why loadouts are not good at being fair or competitive. They give advantages to people and promote randomness.
Weapon 1. Kill time 1.56/s, range 75 meters
Weapon 2. Kill time 1.78/s, range 75 meters
Who is most likely to win if both players are equally skilled?
> > The talk is about loadouts not being bad for fairness and competetiveness, obviously they work differently in every game.
>
> I already have discussed why loadouts are not good at being fair or competitive. They give advantages to people and promote randomness.
What they promote is trying new things. Players play with the weapons that best suit their playstyle. If someone has a Lightrifle and he takes you out at far range while you have a BR then how is that unfair?
> > The talk is about loadouts not being bad for fairness and competetiveness, obviously they work differently in every game.
>
> Weapon 1. Kill time 1.56/s, range 75 meters
>
> Weapon 2. Kill time 1.78/s, range 75 meters
>
> Who is most likely to win if both players are equally skilled?
There is much more to factor into a fight than just kill times. You act like every firefight starts with 1v1 and both players start shooting each other at the exact same time.
> What they promote is trying new things. Players play with the weapons that best suit their playstyle. If someone has a Lightrifle and he takes you out at far range while you have a BR then how is that unfair?
New=/= Good. Did that player spawn with the light rifle? Or did he pick it up from the ground? I can’t give you a full answer unless you give me more specific details.
> > > > > If loadouts are balanced though, then every player is still fighting on an equal footing.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t think they can be balanced.
> > >
> > > <mark>Why not? It’s a lot of work but it can be done.</mark> I don’t believe a game is an arena shooter only if it’s stripped to a simple and barebones setting.
> >
> > Because they are inherently random.
>
> What’s so random about 1 guy having a BR and another having a Carbine? It just lets the player play more how they want while the guns are still balanced against each other.
So allowing people to eject from a vehicle isn’t random? Letting people have faster shields recharging isn’t random? Letting people spawn with plasma pistols and thus destroying vehicle combat isn’t random?
> There is much more to factor into a fight than just kill times. You act like every firefight starts with 1v1 and both players start shooting each other at the exact same time.
I came up with a situation in which two equally skilled players encounter each other and both of them spawned with different weapons. The player that will most likely win will be the one who has the gun that kills faster in that situation. Skill did not determine the outcome, the loadout did.
> > What they promote is trying new things. Players play with the weapons that best suit their playstyle. If someone has a Lightrifle and he takes you out at far range while you have a BR then how is that unfair?
>
> New=/= Good. Did that player spawn with the light rifle? Or did he pick it up from the ground? I can’t give you a full answer unless you give me more specific details.
Does it matter where he got the Lightrifle from?