I was playing 3s on Fort Deen and lost. My teammate says I should have built vamps, I say no. Here’s the skinny:
Our PoR, double Cutter versus their double anders forge. It was late game, everyone had 2-3 bases, so i had assualt beam, teammates had tanks, cobras, and ODST. The other team had tanks, gremlins and wolves and both anders were switching to Hawks.
My teammate says I shoulda gone vamps saying that hunters just get canny glitched and vamps are mobile and don’t get cryo’d when mixed into the Hawks.
Both my teammtes had vehicle depots so i thought they should be the ones going anti-air since i had zero summits, and vamps get double cryo’d and they don’t do building damage.
Game details: Halo - Official Site (en)
Any knowledgeable players want to chime in? What would have been a better unit combo?
I think one of your Cutters should have gone Wolverines. One squad of Wolverines can pretty much handle 2 squads of Hawks. One of the cutters should have gone Cobras, one Wolverines, both ODST’s and your Hunters and PofR, you would have won. ODST’s to soak up fire on the front lines, Wolverines to take down Hawks, Hunters and Cobras for land based vehicle and buildings, and PofR for anything else that needs to be cleaned up.
I will say that you should have handled AA with vampires, because they work well with prophet of regret and are the best AA units in the game.
Your teammates were correct here. I wouldn’t worry so much about getting Cani-glitched with Hunters so much as they’re incredibly immobile. If the other team doesn’t want to fight you, they don’t have to and they’ll win a base trade against Hunters too since they’re so slow.
You should have been building Vamps, not for damage, but to keep the Hawks off. The point of building Vamps is to allow your teammates to do the most damage they can. If you refuse to build Vamps, you’re hurting your teammates by letting the other team do more damage to your team’s units. Your teammates were also right when they said that the other team will be reluctant to Cryo you if you’re sitting in the middle of their Hawks, so you aren’t in as much danger as you might think. Plus, if your Vamps were to be Cryo’d, then your team’s Tanks wouldn’t be, which is even better for you if they end up Cryoing their own Hawks in the process.
In the end, your teammates should have built a few Wolvies, however, they should have been used to support your Vamps, not win the air war. As the Covi, it is always your job to win the air war.
thx for the responses but i still disagree.
I still think I was correct but I guess it was more a situation-based decision than an over-arching rule of thumb. Because I definitely agree that hunters are slow and having a mixed army of vamps AND wolves is best.
Although hunters are slow I’ve come to appreciate the fact that triple UNSC has few answers for max pop assault beam. Flamers dont have much effect and you want to talk about canny-glitching lol! if 3 tanks find those flamers their gone.
thx guys
Banshees are significantly better. Especially sacrifice. it’ll take 3-4 dual launcher per base to even consider pushing off a full pop sac, not mentioning the huge mobility advantage and the ability to engage tanks. Fly in, kill 3-4 pads, boost away. If you have to carry, switching to assault beam when all 3 of them max wolves is fine but if you have a competent unsc you’ll be better of staying vamp/banshee/leader or transitioning into scarab/vamp or scarab/banshee (again, only if you have a tanker).
> Although hunters are slow I’ve come to appreciate the fact that triple UNSC has few answers for max pop assault beam.
Hawks/Hornets, MACs, Cryos + units, Carpets, Tanks, and Oxide Flamers are all good fixes to the Assault Beam problem.
Oh, and I missed this, though it was already touched on: Banshees. Why you didn’t have Sacrifice before Assault Beam is beyond me. Banshees are the perfect mid-game counter to any all-UNSC combo on any map. Now, then you run into a Hawk problem, Vamps are definitely going to become useful, but you should have started with Banshees.
So, I’ll revise my statement a little; the problem was not that you didn’t have Vamps at a good time, it’s that you didn’t have a Summit for more than 10 minutes by the time you needed Vamps.
You’re teammates were right about one thing Hunters just get canny glitched its true you should never go hunters EVER go banshees or vamps.
> You’re teammates were right about one thing Hunters just get canny glitched its true you should never go hunters EVER go banshees or vamps.
That isn’t true - hunters vs double/triple unsc is situationally okay, especially in UA where if you build banshees everyone on the enemy team builds like 10 wolves.
Canister glitch is largely ineffective vs sb/ab hunters.
> > You’re teammates were right about one thing Hunters just get canny glitched its true you should never go hunters EVER go banshees or vamps.
>
> That isn’t true - hunters vs double/triple unsc is situationally okay, especially in UA where if you build banshees everyone on the enemy team builds like 10 wolves.
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> Canister glitch is largely ineffective vs sb/ab hunters.
Canny glitch ineffective against hunters I can canny glitch a whole army of them away.
you should have got them. not a full 25 pop cap, but I generally always get at least 10.
why?
you’ll understand how helpful they’re when countering air, even if they’re out numbered by hawks you’ll see them drop like flies if you fly into the crowd and stasis.
Health leech + AoE damage is nice. not to mention if they try to cryo they’ll hit their own units.
as others have said. vampires are for stalling/holding and protecting the team to do the massive damage.
1 vampire can tackle a vulture while wolverines kill it with ease.
always make vamps in teams.
> > Although hunters are slow I’ve come to appreciate the fact that triple UNSC has few answers for max pop assault beam.
>
> Hawks/Hornets, MACs, Cryos + units, Carpets, Tanks, and Oxide Flamers are all good fixes to the Assault Beam problem.
>
>
>
>
> Oh, and I missed this, though it was already touched on: Banshees. Why you didn’t have Sacrifice before Assault Beam is beyond me. Banshees are the perfect mid-game counter to any all-UNSC combo on any map. Now, then you run into a Hawk problem, Vamps are definitely going to become useful, but you should have started with Banshees.
>
> So, I’ll revise my statement a little; the problem was not that you didn’t have Vamps at a good time, it’s that you didn’t have a Summit for more than 10 minutes by the time you needed Vamps.
I didn’t bother with banshees because my teammates were… How do I put this nicely…slow. My teammates would not have seized the moment when i had forced the other team into wolves and single bases. Looking at their build-orders and all the marines they were building my teammates weren’t going to be doing much for the first 15 minutes.
Also, us being double cutter on Deen and me being PoR solves the hunter mobilty problem A LOT. Between our control of energy walls and my flying leader the hunters could always be where they were needed.
I read the stats that you posted and it appears that you only made hunters with no other types of unit.
The 2 anders on the other team had 47 hawks/hornets combined, but your team only had 13 wolverines to fight against it.
I think that your team’s loss should be mainly on you because you only made hunters that had no use against their air forces. They are basically sitting targets…
and wolverines are just not as effective as vampires in anti-air battles.
Wolverines should only be used if you’re defending a base, mainly because they aren’t as mobile and can’t keep up with the enemy air units.
Vampires, on the other hand, with its statis ability, locks down enemy aircrafts until it blows up.
Because of the big tank/hawk army that your enemy is building, the covy(which is you), should have went vampires, and the UNSC, should have built cobras and stayed on the defensive side. After you have decimated their airforce with vampires, then your team can start the advance with cobras pulling up to their bases. If their hawk squads can roam around the map easily with barely any anti-air units(13 wolverine can’t go anywhere), then the cobras are also just sitting targets(like your hunters) for the hawk squad. Btw, i find infantry units pretty useless in fighting air units, as the air force could simply pull away.
If you have any other points, let me know.