As a noob to Halo, I’m curious to know how you define Halo. Also, is there any room for Halo to grow into a different area?
> As a noob to Halo, I’m curious to know how you define Halo. Also, is there any room for Halo to grow into a different area?
When you have a community built up over 10 years on balance and even playing fields, then implement Halo fiesta as the permanent game mode in halo 4 people will be upset (Even halo Reach gave everyone the option to choose the same loadouts). The issues are already beaten to death on these forums, Halo 4 in a TL;DR version - Half of the features we’ve seen over the past 3 years gutted, and random chaotic gameplay makes more gamers angry and frustrated such as the Gears of War series.
A lot of what is said is not sensationalism either, the population in this game has dropped drastically compared to its earlier installments.
> As a noob to Halo, I’m curious to know how you define Halo. Also, is there any room for Halo to grow into a different area?
Opinions aside, let’s look at the facts.
All of these are true of Halo 1 through Halo 3:
-Weapons spawn on the map in fixed locations.
-Weapons tie into map design.
-Players only spawned with close range or medium range weapons.
-Everyone spawned with the same exact weapons.
-Symmetrical maps had the same weapons on each side.
Now for the (slightly) opinionated analysis of Halo 4:
-Players are “rewarded” personal ordnance for scoring points.
-Personal ordnance is random, unlike the fixed spawns of earlier games.
-Weapons initially spawn in fixed locations, but then spawn at random locations.
-Map design is based around sprint and power positions.
-Loadouts, perks, and high-level specializations mean people aren’t necessarily “equal”.
-Symmetricral maps don’t have the same weapons on each side due to the random spawning system.
From an objective standpoint, Halo 4 is undeniably different than the originals due to loadouts and weapon layout.
In the words of Jensen, “I never asked for this.”
Now, I can tolerate a lot of the changes halo 4 made actually. Yes, it does have room to grow. The problem though is the unbalanced weapons, the unbalanced weapon layout, and the poorly designed maps. Fixing these alone would make Halo 4into a vastly superior game than it is now.
> > As a noob to Halo, I’m curious to know how you define Halo. Also, is there any room for Halo to grow into a different area?
>
> <mark>A lot of what is said is not sensationalism either, the population in this game has dropped drastically compared to its earlier installments.</mark>
Population population population. thats all i ever hear as an excuse to show halo 4 is failing.
numbers are misleading, maybe theres only 120,000 people on your charts. but those charts show the Peak number. the most people online at one time. not how many unique users played on matchmaking that day. the numbers are misleading and shouldnt ever be used as an excuse.
That said, there is significantly more competition in the FPS market today than there was with Halo 3 in 2007, honestly what was there to compete with halo back then? you could say gears of war. but that was a new IP and could have failed. Modern Warfare? well that wasnt a well established series at the time and had little impact on halos player base.
nowadays you have BF3, MW3, BO2, GoW3. all of those titles are games that are in direct competition with Halo 4. naturally there will be lower numbers.
> Who are you to decide what is HALO?
It’s not exactly who we are that matters, it’s what our valid arguments are. There are large difference between Halo 1-3 and Halo 4 which are all objective facts. The consequences of those facts can also be explained and shown to have had a negative impact on the way that Halo 4 plays compared to it’s predecessors.
> As a noob to Halo, I’m curious to know how you define Halo. Also, is there any room for Halo to grow into a different area?
This is a really good question when brought into perspective. One may say that Halo is an enigma to console FPS. Another might say it is the ultimate sandbox for player on player conflict and competition. To me what defines Halo is what separates itself from others of its genre and what makes it stand out and ultimately unique. I could not explain my definition post Halo 4 seeing as it has sincerely changed and I’m still working on the current one 
Overall great thread OP. Very interesting…
EDIT: Ya twisted my arm OP 
This would probably be my most accurate definition:
“Halo is a complete user experience encompassing innovative and may I say impressive solo, and multiplayer gameplay styles that tries to cater to each of it’s individual community interests however recently, does so somewhat poorly”
-A New Kidd
> > Who are you to decide what is HALO?
>
> It’s not exactly who we are that matters, it’s what our valid arguments are. There are large difference between Halo 1-3 and Halo 4 which are all objective facts. The consequences of those facts can also be explained and shown to have had a negative impact on the way that Halo 4 plays compared to it’s predecessors.
The negative impact is an opinion, so don’t try to throw it in with the fact that there are differences in the game. Yes, it is a fact that things are a little different. But it is 100% your opinion that those differences result in a negative experience.
I love Halo 4, it does still feel like Halo to me. I don’t try to put it into words, I just know how it feels when I play it. Yes there have been changes, but a vocal minority’s opinion does not equal a fact. Just look at the Westboro Baptist Church, incredibly vocal, incomprehensibly wrong. They can believe whatever they want, but that doesn’t make it true.
Same goes for my opinion. I know it’s not true for everyone, but I enjoy it, so what else matters?
And OP: If you want to form your own opinion on what Halo “is,” I suggest renting the other titles 1-3, ODST and Reach. You won’t be able to play Halo 2 online, but you could still try split screen. Give them a whirl and decide for yourself what Halo “is.” Don’t let the opinions of others cloud your judgement.
How can future Halo games incorporate new elements if there are strong segments that oppose them? Seems as if 343i have fused new elements to the game. If 343i was more proactive on communication and making timely technical updates, most of the backlash from this forum would have been avoided.
> Population population population. thats all i ever hear as an excuse to show halo 4 is failing.
Well the game is being sold at $40 in Retail only 4 weeks after release, not to mention the lack luster reviews from non-paid off gaming websites in the industry.
> numbers are misleading, maybe theres only 120,000 people on your charts. but those charts show the Peak number. the most people online at one time. not how many unique users played on matchmaking that day.
Incorrect again most charts also log unique IDs in a 24 hour cycle, meaning X number of players played for that day. If this was halo 3 a month out I would agree. I believe even halo Reach had a 24 hour counter.
> the numbers are misleading and shouldnt ever be used as an excuse.
As that is how 343 is measuring success, why cant we?
> That said, there is significantly more competition in the FPS market today than there was with Halo 3 in 2007, honestly what was there to compete with halo back then?
Battlefield, Call of Duty, Bioshock, Gears, Orange Box, Medal of honor, Shadowrun, Soldier of Fortune Payback, and about 5 other smaller FPS titles.
If you didnt play halo 2 on xbox live your not gona get what true halo used to be like, All you will know is maby halo 3 and halo reach. Yes its true people should adapt but game companys also shouldnt take whats been working and throw it to the -Yoinking!- wind to try and be different, To many companys are trying to apeal to new crowds but in the process loosing the dedicated and old school fans.
> [A lot of what is said is not sensationalism either, the population in this game has dropped drastically compared to its earlier installments.
Yah but even if Halo kept a theme consistent to Halo 1 (Armor lock wasn’t the start of chaotic gimmicks and gameplay tweaks beyond an acceptable norm. Vehicle boarding and dual wielding came way before that) you can’t expect the series to ride high forever. Star Trek, once a cultural icon for the US, is now just a bit of nerd-culture and fodder for trashy blockbusters. WOW, once the online game, is on it’s way out, Final Fantasy is a joke these days, and even something as staple as Nintendo handhelds are probably going to disappear from relevancy in the next decade (at the very latest.)
Even if each format hit it’s highest stride by the end it can’t outcompete changing social conditions which make it’s particular brand of whatever generally less desirable (whatever it’s quality.) Halo’s no different, and there’s even no saying now that the declining populations are caused by a few poor design choices or more generally to do with the age of the franchise and it’s inability to really evolve past Halo 2 in terms of it’s core gameplay.
> How can future Halo games incorporate new elements if there are strong segments that oppose them? Seems as if 343i have fused new elements to the game. If 343i was more proactive on communication and making timely technical updates, most of the backlash from this forum would have been avoided.
As far as the updates go, they are far ahead of what Bungie ever did. We didn’t get a title update to Halo 3 until February…5 months after the release. There were bugs and other things that needed to be fixed and they got around to it. 343 already has 2 TU’s in (Day 1 and last week) and another one is coming, likely before the end of the month.
That’s a check on the timely technical updates. I think the thing with communication isn’t necessarily a lack of it, seeing as Bungie gave just as many updates a week as 343 is…and possibly with LESS info, but it’s that bs angel comes off as too…corporate.
The bulletins seem to feel very business-y imo. I’m not saying she is cold or bland or doesn’t care, it could just be a personality thing and she might not even know it’s happening. It seems like she is talking at us or to us, rather than with us.
So were the great reviews overstated…?
NOTE: I happen to really like Halo 4 and Halo is a different animal. This game is truly hard to master and I have been playing everyday since the release and I am just now starting to get the hang of it.
> How can future Halo games incorporate new elements if there are strong segments that oppose them? Seems as if 343i have fused new elements to the game. If 343i was more proactive on communication and making timely technical updates, most of the backlash from this forum would have been avoided.
If the game has to change a little to stay alive, fine. In fact, if these changes can be executed in a balanced way, I might end up liking them.
I can actually tolerate or enjoy these as concepts:
Loadouts
Perks
Sprint
Abilities
Vehicle Health
Personal Ordnance
Hitmarkers and Grenade Indicators
But I can’t ever tolerate:
Random Ordnance
Random Weapon Spawns
Ordnance that doesn’t punish you for dying, aka rewards doing nothing.
Useless Vehicles
Maps that favor one team.
Asymetrical maps with no thought put into them.
How Sprint breaks maps so much that the entire philosophy behind designing maps is changed.
Lack of custom games content.
Weapons that are blatantly superior to other weapons.
There are good changes in this game, but they are buried under changes that cater to bad players. People are opposed to change, but they are most opposed to change that makes the game worse.
Make GOOD changes, and people will come around. Dual Wielding was a good change. Boarding vehicles was a good change. Turrets you can rip off was a good change. Random Handouts are not a good change.
> > > Who are you to decide what is HALO?
> >
> > It’s not exactly who we are that matters, it’s what our valid arguments are. There are large difference between Halo 1-3 and Halo 4 which are all objective facts. The consequences of those facts can also be explained and shown to have had a negative impact on the way that Halo 4 plays compared to it’s predecessors.
>
> The negative impact is an opinion, so don’t try to throw it in with the fact that there are differences in the game. Yes, it is a fact that things are a little different. But it is 100% your opinion that those differences result in a negative experience.
>
> I love Halo 4, it does still feel like Halo to me. I don’t try to put it into words, I just know how it feels when I play it. Yes there have been changes, but a vocal minority’s opinion does not equal a fact. Just look at the Westboro Baptist Church, incredibly vocal, incomprehensibly wrong. They can believe whatever they want, but that doesn’t make it true.
>
> Same goes for my opinion. I know it’s not true for everyone, but I enjoy it, so what else matters?
I’d like you to show us all where I said “experience” in my post. I said a negative impact, therefor not invoking subjectivity. Change happens, yes, but say for Halo 5 343i decided to allow all players to start with a weapon which when fired, caused MAC guns in orbit to fire MAC rounds at all enemies on the map, killing them instantly regardless of where they were. That would be defensible and subjective according to you, but it is not, it can be easily shown what impact such a weapon would have on the game. Equally, it can be explained why no fixed weapon spawns on map and random ordnance drops has a negative impact on the way the game plays and it has nothing to do with how anybody feels about it. You could run a demo on this using nothing but AI bots and the winning AI team would be the one who was closest to the good random ordnance drops when they happened. It would basically all boil down to which AI team was the luckiest with ordnance, amongst other problems.
> > > As a noob to Halo, I’m curious to know how you define Halo. Also, is there any room for Halo to grow into a different area?
> >
> > <mark>A lot of what is said is not sensationalism either, the population in this game has dropped drastically compared to its earlier installments.</mark>
>
> Population population population. thats all i ever hear as an excuse to show halo 4 is failing.
> numbers are misleading, maybe theres only 120,000 people on your charts. but those charts show the Peak number. the most people online at one time. not how many unique users played on matchmaking that day. the numbers are misleading and shouldnt ever be used as an excuse.
> That said, there is significantly more competition in the FPS market today than there was with Halo 3 in 2007, honestly what was there to compete with halo back then? you could say gears of war. but that was a new IP and could have failed. Modern Warfare? well that wasnt a well established series at the time and had little impact on halos player base.
> nowadays you have BF3, MW3, BO2, GoW3. all of those titles are games that are in direct competition with Halo 4. naturally there will be lower numbers.
BF3 is a year old
MW3 is a year old
GOW 3 is at least a year old
BO2 is the only direct competition to Halo 4.
Those charts showed the peak number of online players in the beginning as well, you know how many players were online at peak hours back then? 410.000. How many people are left now? 120.000. That’s a decline of almost 75%
You know how many people are online at peak hours in FIFA 13? Over 150.000 each day of the week. FIFA 13 came out 6 weeks before Halo 4 did and the population has been stable for a while. It has yet to drop under 150.000 I think. Is FIFA as popular as Halo, no, it has already been outsold by Halo 4.
There is nothing natural about Halo 4’s declining population.
> > How can future Halo games incorporate new elements if there are strong segments that oppose them? Seems as if 343i have fused new elements to the game. If 343i was more proactive on communication and making timely technical updates, most of the backlash from this forum would have been avoided.
>
> As far as the updates go, they are far ahead of what Bungie ever did. We didn’t get a title update to Halo 3 until February…5 months after the release. There were bugs and other things that needed to be fixed and they got around to it. 343 already has 2 TU’s in (Day 1 and last week) and another one is coming, likely before the end of the month.
>
> That’s a check on the timely technical updates. I think the thing with communication isn’t necessarily a lack of it, seeing as Bungie gave just as many updates a week as 343 is…and possibly with LESS info, but it’s that bs angel comes off as too…corporate.
>
> The bulletins seem to feel very business-y imo. I’m not saying she is cold or bland or doesn’t care, it could just be a personality thing and she might not even know it’s happening. It seems like she is talking at us or to us, rather than with us.
I guess that people’s memories are short and the society has moved from a we want things now to a we want things right now since the Bungie days.
“Fans” destroy everything they get in contact with.
Notice the quotes. There is a reason why they are there. Figure it out. I shouldn’t have to spell it out to you and I won’t.
“Fans” ruin everything.
I don’t know why can a football player who played for ten years speak up and say how football is supposed to be played. How about any sport, why don’t we let the new fans of those sports decide how the game should be played. Oh yeah that’s right because experience and skill in a game means you have a knowledge on how it does and should play. Seriously, why even ask this question. Any intelligent form of life could figure this out themselves.
Oh and to the person who stupidly said the vocal minority…ignorance must be blind because you sure are. The so called vocal minority are most of the better players in Halo history. Why do you think 343 hired Bravo a long time Halo pro to come help with match making? The answer is because the so called vocal minority has became the vast majority when you add in all the players who have left the game and refuse to come back until it is fixed. They know they need to make some drastic changes to game play to make it more competitive or this game will fail. See people like you come and go, but if the game is truly competitive guys like me and a lot of other competitive players will play it every single day for hours on end until Halo 5 comes out.
Unlike Reach where the vast majority left that game because of how dumb down it was. By the last few months Reach was lucky to pull 30,000 players at peak time, and that is being generous with the numbers.
> > [A lot of what is said is not sensationalism either, the population in this game has dropped drastically compared to its earlier installments.
>
> Yah but even if Halo kept a theme consistent to Halo 1 (Armor lock wasn’t the start of chaotic gimmicks and gameplay tweaks beyond an acceptable norm. Vehicle boarding and dual wielding came way before that) you can’t expect the series to ride high forever. Star Trek, once a cultural icon for the US, is now just a bit of nerd-culture and fodder for trashy blockbusters. WOW, once the online game, is on it’s way out, Final Fantasy is a joke these days, and even something as staple as Nintendo handhelds are probably going to disappear from relevancy in the next decade (at the very latest.)
>
> Even if each format hit it’s highest stride by the end it can’t outcompete changing social conditions which make it’s particular brand of whatever generally less desirable (whatever it’s quality.) Halo’s no different, and there’s even no saying now that the declining populations are caused by a few poor design choices or more generally to do with the age of the franchise and it’s inability to really evolve past Halo 2 in terms of it’s core gameplay.
While you make a valid point, could you elaborate on the last? In terms of core gameplay an FPS can only go so far. I would argue its the evolution if that is what we want to call it, I will call it feature bloat, that is causing the ripples with the series. I won’t deny in terms of negativity halo 2 had it second to none its first couple months out the door, but once TUs were applied it quickly became accepted. I feel the problem with halo 4 is the core gameplay is there, just gamers can not access it. That mixed with some misconfigurations in matchmaking cause frustration to gamers. The lack of customization really limits what gamers can and can not do with this installment. Will this be fixed? It remains to be seen.