Personally I think it’s the SoS since they have Tier 2 technology as well as control the Sangheili core world Sphere and specifically Sanghelios.
Doesn’t really matter since Humans are going to win “the war” no matter what.
SoS
Swords of Sanghelios, I think. The UNSC looks powerful, but a lot of that comes from Infinity, which we’ve seen is far from invincible.
By the way, who is Neru Pe 'Odosima?
Most likely Arbiters faction. If you remove the Infinity from the equation then the UNSC is back to end of Halo 3 levels of crippled. Even their Spartan IV’s are just on-par with a standard Elite, which there are far more of. I’d put my money on the Arbiter any day, although I’m hoping they remain allies.
I voted for the UNSC. While they aren’t as advanced or strong as the Covenant they do have the willpower and the resistance. Which in my opinion make them the stronger faction. The UNSC managed to hold off the covenant for 25 years, they were outnumbered, outgunned yet they never gave up. You have to admit the UNSC did put up one heck of a fight against the Covenant.
I’d say Swords of Sangheilios, probably because out of everyone there the faction we’ve seen least of so there military capabilities are still largely unknown.
The UNSC was always a backwater power anyway which the unified Covenant had pushed to very verge of extinction by the end of the war. Despite the Infinity possessing Forerunner components, they still have no understanding of how this technology works while there own kinetic based weaponry is still generations behind Covenant energy weapons. So far the Infinity has proven itself to be nothing more then a floating and highly hack-able paperweight.
Pro-Covenant splinter factions like Jul’ Mdama’s are divided in both their ideology and loyalty while the state of their equipment and weaponry seems to vary without a standardised system of logistics to support them. This could change very soon though if something was to unite them under one banner, and I think its also important to remember they are the only faction who have Promethean Knights working with them, which essentially gives them access to limited Forerunner-era weaponry.
Out of all the post war Covenant factions the Arbiter’s SoS militarily seem to resemble the unified Covenant most of all, as unlike Jul rag-tag militia like troops their armour appears streamlined and mass-produced. We also know that post war they have not only been able to maintain a CAS-class Assault Carrier (The Shadow of Intent) type warship but actually improve its weapons and defences, and they were negotiating with the Jiralhanae for access to raw materials to build more weapons and warships. All of this suggests that the SoS have a very sophisticated economic infrastructure backing them up, which unlike the UNSC would not have been stripped to the bone by 28 years of indiscriminate warfare.
Lydus’s independent faction are probably in a similar position to the SOS, though we have even less knowledge of them other that they seem to be facing possible famine.
This type of debate is very difficult without solid figures, though I’d say post-Covenant the SOS are likely the dominant faction both militarily and technologically. The UNSC was just to small and inexperienced a power even before the war, and then during that war they lost to much in terms of manpower, manufacturing capabilities and assets (ships and colonies) to be in a position to threaten anyone post war.
> 2533274975398392;6:
> I voted for the UNSC. While they aren’t as advanced or strong as the Covenant they do have the willpower and the resistance. Which in my opinion make them the stronger faction. The UNSC managed to hold off the covenant for 25 years, they were outnumbered, outgunned yet they never gave up. You have to admit the UNSC did put up one heck of a fight against the Covenant.
Yeah, the UNSC was less powerful than all the covenant, but they managed very well against them. Now they have been damaged a lot (colonies and resources lost), but 343 isn’t showing this off, and instead makes it look as if the UNSC is seeing its best days, so I think that they are more powerful than the SoS alone.
We have to consider that now the technological gap with the covenant has been reduced and also our knowledge of enemies, factions and generally aliens has increased a lot. I believe human experts know more about the forerunners and have more of their technology under control than any other faction. You also have to consider the asymmetrical capacity of the UNSC, with ONI and its projects/research that made us “win” the war, and this is something the covenant factions never really had, at least not at a comparable level.
We also have potential, there are colonies out there that were untouched by the war and aren’t innie controlled, and we have forerunner technology that if developed on a much larger scale could make a serious difference. Also, sanghelios has had a civil war, while this isn’t happening on Earth.
Do not reduce UNSC post-war era to the Infinity. It’s probably a waste of money, but has a good effect on morals, both of UNSC, allies and enemies. It’s technologically significative, even if the incompetence of the crew makes this technological advancement useless in practice, if not dangerous (see what halsey and jul have done).
But 343 is telling us a tale, if UNSC is really only Earth (with solar system), as it seems to be now, we shouldn’t even have enough soldiers and officers to fill the ships we can in some way build.
Honestly it’s a bit weird now, isn’t it? I would typically think SoS takes this immediately, but Kilo-Five makes it seem as though the UNSC is leagues ahead of everyone else now. Seeing the Infinity slug that ship on Sanghelios from orbit, and then having Port-Stanley practically walk into people’s houses without them noticing kinda sways my opinion a bit. Effectively owning Trevelyan, and a selection of Engineers (and unlike much of the covenant, is willing to put them to good use,) also gives them a small boost.
I’unno. I’m personally stuck on UNSC, and SoS.
I’d say we probably have to wait till h5 to actually have an understanding of the SoS. We have a very basic description of them right now, and what little post-war info we have on sanghelios isn’t the most positive.
Isn’t the SoS affected by the civil war ?
> 2533274813012755;4:
> Swords of Sanghelios, I think. The UNSC looks powerful, but a lot of that comes from Infinity, which we’ve seen is far from invincible.
>
> By the way, who is Neru Pe 'Odosima?
Abiding Truth Servants.
> 2533274846562867;11:
> Isn’t the SoS affected by the civil war ?
They fight Jul so yes. But humans have the Innies as well.
> 2533274881534340;8:
> > 2533274975398392;6:
> > I voted for the UNSC. While they aren’t as advanced or strong as the Covenant they do have the willpower and the resistance. Which in my opinion make them the stronger faction. The UNSC managed to hold off the covenant for 25 years, they were outnumbered, outgunned yet they never gave up. You have to admit the UNSC did put up one heck of a fight against the Covenant.
> 2533274881534340;8:
> Yeah, the UNSC was less powerful than all the covenant, but they managed very well against them. Now they have been damaged a lot (colonies and resources lost), but 343 isn’t showing this off, and instead makes it look as if the UNSC is seeing its best days, so I think that they are more powerful than the SoS alone.
How exactly did they manage very well? For 27 years they were getting slaughtered and massacred taking billions of casualties. 23 billion before Earth invasion and they also lost a couple of billions later. The only thing ONI managed was to delay the destruction. We have never seen the SoS outside of Escalation and the Universe encyclopedia. If you mean Kilo 5 then this does not count since back then it was not an established faction with a solid ground.
> 2533274881534340;8:
> We have to consider that now the technological gap with the covenant has been reduced and also our knowledge of enemies, factions and generally aliens has increased a lot.
It has not even remotely been bridged though. All Humanity has is the Infinity, a warship that Jul toys with on a regular basis. We’ve seen that ship get boarded, crippled, hacked, and almost blown up multiple times. To also add to this the UNSC has the Stridents. In Halo 4 SpOps episode 7 you can see about 6-7 of them destroyed outside of the Infinity. Humanity still relies on bullets, shieldless troops and wheel dependent vehicles when the average Sangheili soldier has energey shields, plasma weapons, and uses antigravity on their vehicles. A single plasma pistol uncharged bolt can kill a marine. A wraith tank vaporises everything within a 20 metre long radius of the blast shot and kills everything within an 80 metre long radius. Plasma weapon melt through tank armour btw. In space the UNSC still stands no chance. It’s just that they face Jul’s rag tag group that makes them think that they are giants. UNSC ships shoot missiles and nukes all of which can be taken down by the enemy’s pulse lasers, shields and plasma torpedoes. We’ve also seen what energy projectors do to UNSC ships including the Infinity.
> I believe human experts know more about the forerunners and have more of their technology under control than any other faction.You also have to consider the asymmetrical capacity of the UNSC, with ONI and its projects/research that made us “win” the war, and this is something the covenant factions never really had, at least not at a comparable level.
But they don’t. Just because they have Trevelyan it means nothing. The Covenant had found multiple shield worlds throughout their History and multiple other Forerunner installations and this is pretty much the reason why they know more about how their tech works. Also ONI did not make humanity win any war. The reason why humanity survived is because of two factors: a)The Prophet of Truth destroying the Covenant and b)because of pure luck in timing. They didn’t beat the covies into a standstill. They lost billions while Thel’s Sangheili finished off the last covenant fleet. The SoS also have installation 07 and the locations to all the Shield Worlds that the former Covenant had exploited.
> We also have potential, there are colonies out there that were untouched by the war and aren’t innie controlled, and we have forerunner technology that if developed on a much larger scale could make a serious difference. Also, sanghelios has had a civil war, while this isn’t happening on Earth
This makes no sense as an argument honestly. What do you mean by potential? The average human lives less and is probably not as smart as the average Sangheili. The SoS also employs Unggoy, Kig-Yar and Lekgolo. A single Sangheili prodigy was so skilled that she managed to reverse engineer entire parts of MJOLNIR armour and the armour she created is now produced by Kolaar Manufactorum. The Sangheili were Tier 2 in 851 BCE. They were also already well into Tier 3 in 938 BCE. Humanity has a lot more than 3,400 years of technological gap to cover and that cannot happen in 4 years. The Sangheili also have dozens of colonial vectors, have mapped a large portion of the Orion Arm and they have greater access to resources than the UNSC. The also have tons of scientists and they produce Tier 2 tech. Humanity is still at Tier 3 and the average human is not even allowed to know what a Forerunner or the Flood is. To develop that Forerunner tech humanity needs to a)understand it b)reverse engineer it and c)mass produce it. After 4 years they still cannot figure out how the engine of their best ship works. While they have reversed engineered some Forerunner tech they have done nothing noteworthy. The most noteworthy thing they’ve done is strap a pure Forerunner engine on a ship, which has backfired at twice. Humanity also lack the economy to mass produce stuff made by reverse engineering Forerunner tech. Their new shiny Fleet has been proved to still be incapable of beating a fleet of CRS and RCS class cruisers. Let me also give you two examples of human colonies that are not controlled by Innies or the UNSC but depend on them.
Aleria: A world whose population is literally starving due to the harsh climate and crippled economy.
Sedna: A world that can barely have 4 havok nukes, has no real military, no navy and the tech it uses is 200 years behind modern UNSC tech.
> But 343 is telling us a tale, if UNSC is really only Earth (with solar system), as it seems to be now, we shouldn’t even have enough soldiers and officers to fill the ships we can in some way build.
It has more worlds. The Jovian moons, Mars, the remaining inner colonies, some other worlds mentioned in Escalation and Nightfall. It’s not just Earth. Still though the UNSC is hilariously incompetent.
> 2533274813912897;9:
> Honestly it’s a bit weird now, isn’t it? I would typically think SoS takes this immediately, but Kilo-Five makes it seem as though the UNSC is leagues ahead of everyone else now. Seeing the Infinity slug that ship on Sanghelios from orbit, and then having Port-Stanley practically walk into people’s houses without them noticing kinda sways my opinion a bit. Effectively owning Trevelyan, and a selection of Engineers (and unlike much of the covenant, is willing to put them to good use,) also gives them a small boost.
>
>
>
> I’unno. I’m personally stuck on UNSC, and SoS.
The Infinity downing a single Covenant Destroyer isn’t anything ground-breaking, it was taking on a much smaller classification of warship so I would fully expect the Infinity to be able to best a Destroyer-class vessel, considering the amount of funds the UNSC pumped into its construction.
At the same time you also need to keep in mind that a single Covenant space station of Corvette-class size (aprox 1/5 the size of the Infinity) effectively crippled the Infinity with a single blast of its energy projector, which left the UNSC’s supposedly ‘technologically superior’ ship utterly incapacitated and defenceless.
In relation to Port Stanley stealth capacities, they may seem impressive in Kilo-5 however it was later reported that 3 ONI prowlers sent to keep tabs on the SoS’s Shadow of Intent were identified and destroyed the former Covenant Assault Carrier. The fact the SoS were able to detect these prowlers in the first place indicates that UNSC stealth technology is not nearly as advanced as Kilo-5 made out. (Makes you wonder if the Arbiter knew ONI were in contact with the SoAT the whole time, as ONI’s attempted manipulation of these rebels led to a failed coup which left the Arbiter in command of the Sangheili homeworld. Had the SoAT bided their time further, they may have stood a better chance of driving the Arbiter’s supporters of world rather then the other way around.)
Swords of Sanghelios. It has the economy, industry and resources of Sanghelios, the Urs system and a great number of colonies. The other groups are just rebel factions. Perhaps Lydus leads the equivalent within the former loyalist territory, perhaps not. The UNSC are irrelevant. Anyone who thinks that the isolationist and backwater society of tier 3 plucky baseline humans, clawing their way back from the utter brink of total annihilation, are going to be more powerful than the 3000 year old interstellar civilization of tier 2 posthuman aliens is having a laugh, reclaimer status notwithstanding. Don’t mistake the attention shift of the Covenant away from UNSC space, and the freedom that this gives the Infinity to sneak around beneath their collective noses fighting run down rebel groups, as a demonstration of UNSC “power”. Nothing has changed for the UNSC. Although even on its own the Infinity has been disabled too many times now to be considered reliable.
I would say UNSC because they are becoming a lot stronger then before after reach.
> 2535465515137096;17:
> I would say UNSC because they are becoming a lot stronger then before after reach.
How exactly did they become stronger after Reach? The were getting shrekt until the Thel’s faction saved their lives from the Flood and Truth.
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> > 2535465515137096;17:
> > I would say UNSC because they are becoming a lot stronger then before after reach.
>
>
>
> How exactly did they become stronger after Reach? The were getting shrekt until the Thel’s faction saved their lives from the Flood and Truth.
Master Chief take out the forerunners, destroy the halo ring and save them from being defeat by the covenant empire (but yea Thel did help them to win) without master chief the UNSC won’t know what to do, and they would have lost everything, even the human-race.
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> > 2533274881534340;8:
> > > 2533274975398392;6:
> > > I voted for the UNSC. While they aren’t as advanced or strong as the Covenant they do have the willpower and the resistance. Which in my opinion make them the stronger faction. The UNSC managed to hold off the covenant for 25 years, they were outnumbered, outgunned yet they never gave up. You have to admit the UNSC did put up one heck of a fight against the Covenant.
>
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274881534340;8:
> > Yeah, the UNSC was less powerful than all the covenant, but they managed very well against them. Now they have been damaged a lot (colonies and resources lost), but 343 isn’t showing this off, and instead makes it look as if the UNSC is seeing its best days, so I think that they are more powerful than the SoS alone.
>
>
>
> How exactly did they manage very well? For 27 years they were getting slaughtered and massacred taking billions of casualties. 23 billion before Earth invasion and they also lost a couple of billions later. The only thing ONI managed was to delay the destruction. We have never seen the SoS outside of Escalation and the Universe encyclopedia. If you mean Kilo 5 then this does not count since back then it was not an established faction with a solid ground.
>
>
>
> > 2533274881534340;8:
> > We have to consider that now the technological gap with the covenant has been reduced and also our knowledge of enemies, factions and generally aliens has increased a lot.
>
>
>
>
> It has not even remotely been bridged though. All Humanity has is the Infinity, a warship that Jul toys with on a regular basis. We’ve seen that ship get boarded, crippled, hacked, and almost blown up multiple times. To also add to this the UNSC has the Stridents. In Halo 4 SpOps episode 7 you can see about 6-7 of them destroyed outside of the Infinity. Humanity still relies on bullets, shieldless troops and wheel dependent vehicles when the average Sangheili soldier has energey shields, plasma weapons, and uses antigravity on their vehicles. A single plasma pistol uncharged bolt can kill a marine. A wraith tank vaporises everything within a 20 metre long radius of the blast shot and kills everything within an 80 metre long radius. Plasma weapon melt through tank armour btw. In space the UNSC still stands no chance. It’s just that they face Jul’s rag tag group that makes them think that they are giants. UNSC ships shoot missiles and nukes all of which can be taken down by the enemy’s pulse lasers, shields and plasma torpedoes. We’ve also seen what energy projectors do to UNSC ships including the Infinity.
>
>
>
> > I believe human experts know more about the forerunners and have more of their technology under control than any other faction.You also have to consider the asymmetrical capacity of the UNSC, with ONI and its projects/research that made us “win” the war, and this is something the covenant factions never really had, at least not at a comparable level.
>
>
>
> But they don’t. Just because they have Trevelyan it means nothing. The Covenant had found multiple shield worlds throughout their History and multiple other Forerunner installations and this is pretty much the reason why they know more about how their tech works. Also ONI did not make humanity win any war. The reason why humanity survived is because of two factors: a)The Prophet of Truth destroying the Covenant and b)because of pure luck in timing. They didn’t beat the covies into a standstill. They lost billions while Thel’s Sangheili finished off the last covenant fleet. The SoS also have installation 07 and the locations to all the Shield Worlds that the former Covenant had exploited.
>
>
>
> > We also have potential, there are colonies out there that were untouched by the war and aren’t innie controlled, and we have forerunner technology that if developed on a much larger scale could make a serious difference. Also, sanghelios has had a civil war, while this isn’t happening on Earth
>
>
>
> This makes no sense as an argument honestly. What do you mean by potential? The average human lives less and is probably not as smart as the average Sangheili. The SoS also employs Unggoy, Kig-Yar and Lekgolo. A single Sangheili prodigy was so skilled that she managed to reverse engineer entire parts of MJOLNIR armour and the armour she created is now produced by Kolaar Manufactorum. The Sangheili were Tier 2 in 851 BCE. They were also already well into Tier 3 in 938 BCE. Humanity has a lot more than 3,400 years of technological gap to cover and that cannot happen in 4 years. The Sangheili also have dozens of colonial vectors, have mapped a large portion of the Orion Arm and they have greater access to resources than the UNSC. The also have tons of scientists and they produce Tier 2 tech. Humanity is still at Tier 3 and the average human is not even allowed to know what a Forerunner or the Flood is. To develop that Forerunner tech humanity needs to a)understand it b)reverse engineer it and c)mass produce it. After 4 years they still cannot figure out how the engine of their best ship works. While they have reversed engineered some Forerunner tech they have done nothing noteworthy. The most noteworthy thing they’ve done is strap a pure Forerunner engine on a ship, which has backfired at twice. Humanity also lack the economy to mass produce stuff made by reverse engineering Forerunner tech. Their new shiny Fleet has been proved to still be incapable of beating a fleet of CRS and RCS class cruisers. Let me also give you two examples of human colonies that are not controlled by Innies or the UNSC but depend on them.
> Aleria: A world whose population is literally starving due to the harsh climate and crippled economy.
> Sedna: A world that can barely have 4 havok nukes, has no real military, no navy and the tech it uses is 200 years behind modern UNSC tech.
>
>
>
> > But 343 is telling us a tale, if UNSC is really only Earth (with solar system), as it seems to be now, we shouldn’t even have enough soldiers and officers to fill the ships we can in some way build.
>
>
> It has more worlds. The Jovian moons, Mars, the remaining inner colonies, some other worlds mentioned in Escalation and Nightfall. It’s not just Earth. Still though the UNSC is hilariously incompetent.
So… on the infinity you ignored me, I wrote that it’s nothing so special, so I agree with you, but it is wrong to think we have only that.
Our experts know more. In kilo-V the human scientist knew more than the elite monk (I’m refusing to use proper names as form of disdain to kilo-v). You can say what you want, but I haven’t yet seen elites understand as much of forerunner society, culture, history and technology as ONI.
We have access to technologies better than Sos ones thanks to forerunner research, as I said we need to implement them on a larger scale. When every vessel will have upgraded space drive, we will be superior in slipspace. We have engineers, they don’t (at least that’s what we know).
ONI did everything that made the difference. If you think that AIs, Cortana, Nova Bomb, the crystal that led to Halo, Mjolnir, Spartans and John 117 (few examples) had not a major role in our survival you are wrong. We didn’t really “win”, we didn’t survive only thanks to our own resources, but all these projects were key factors to take advantage of the opportunities (great schism, forerunner installations) and those that granted us most of the few UNSC victories of the war. All if you consider that cole was called by ONI.