Where is the Faith?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Some may think of this as a rant. Or perhaps spam, since I’ve said bits and pieces of this in other posts. But I feel the need to deliver this message as it’s own. :\

Straightens tie
Clears throat
As a fellow Waypointian, I roam these forums with an interest to hear other’s thoughts. One of my most-visited forums is here, Halo Xbox One, Guardians, the same. It’s fun to read other fan’s theories and ideas, what the community has to say. I love it.

But not a day goes by without seeing a post with some sort of message containing angered cries about how much ‘Halo 4 sucked’ and cries that half the additions in H4 must be abolished.

Now before you think ‘Well duh, Sherlock, Halo 4 wasn’t that good and a lot of it needs to go. That post with the message is the truth.’, let me explain further.
I respect everyone’s opinions, and everyone is entitled to have them, tons of them. And I realize that the randomness of Halo 4 Multiplayer was better left to other games, and that Classic should be revived. But here’s the thing:
Half of those posts I read about the downsides of H4 also include pessimistic comments about how the next Halo will stink just as badly and that 343 made the killer mistake of a lifetime.

Heaps of posts are like threats to abandon the Halo community for the ‘failure’ of Halo 4. Some boo 343i. But like the title of this thread says: Where’s the faith?
It’s like some people think that Halo’s ruined forever now. That 343 can’t learn from their mistakes. It’s like (Here’s something you’ve heard me say before) “Mess Guardians up 343, and it’s curtains for you!”

343i had one chance. Halo 4. Yes, it had bad things. Yes, there was mistakes. But you can’t feel success without mistakes. 343 can, and there’s no doubt in my mind that they will, learn from their trip-ups. They’re not going to ignore us.

Take this for example. Halo 4’s ranking system caused waves. Now this tweet may mean anything, confirm nothing, and be brief, but it sounds like they’re listening. So have faith. 343 has been trusted with one of the biggest franchises ever seen. They got a single chance. Please give another.

[/end rant]
:stuck_out_tongue:

2

Faith? I will know that 343i can deliver a great game when I play it. Halo 4 was, in my opinion, below average. The only game 343i has provided wasn’t enjoyable for me at all, which causes me to be very reserved about their next project. It makes no sense to assume that they’ll do a better job with their next project without actually knowing anything about it. When I see things I like, and when I actually play the game and enjoy it, then I’ll be able to say they did a good job. Not before.

3

I agree nothing more to say…I know H5G will hit it out of the park.

4

I truely believe 343 will deliver the Halo game we want. Im looking forward to Halo 5: Guardians

Im also buying the xbox one next week :slight_smile:

5

They think Halo 4 sucked and are worried about the next game, not really that hard to understand is it?

6

I find it hard to have faith when they did SO many things wrong… and not wrong in the sense that they tried and just weren’t successful… they did things that everybody who had previously played Halo would recognize as terrible on paper.

I am still here. I am giving them another chance, but I will not buy Halo 5 if all of their bad ideas aren’t removed. If they mention anything at E3, or anytime before release, about Perks or PODs staying in (for example), I am gone for good.

7

> I find it hard to have faith when they did SO many things wrong… and not wrong in the sense that they tried and just weren’t successful… they did things that everybody who had previously played Halo would recognize as terrible on paper.
>
> I am still here. I am giving them another chance, but I will not buy Halo 5 if all of their bad ideas aren’t removed. If they mention anything at E3, or anytime before release, about Perks or PODs staying in (for example), I am gone for good.

I don’t think that 343 intentionally made Halo 4 ‘bad’. They wanted to add some new things, new things all together, or new things to the Halo gaming, and it didn’t go so while. They didn’t mean any harm.

Good to see you’re giving them a wary second chance… at least. But do you not think they’ll listen to us? You’ve been active here, you now how much these complaints and thoughts pop up. Think they’ll turn the blind eye? I don’t.

> They think Halo 4 sucked and are worried about the next game, not really that hard to understand is it?

But ‘they’ sometimes act like 343’ ears are sealed shut as to hearing what we have to say, and that 343i is incapable of fixing mistakes.

8

Well duh, Sherlock, Halo 4 wasn’t that good and a lot of it needs to go. That post with the message is the truth.

And I didn’t just copy/paste that in order to be a smartass, I copy/pasted it because it’s the truth.

And people have little faith because there’s a good reason to have little faith. You preach about how Halo 5 could turn out great (which it absolutely could) but based off of what 343 has shown us, it could also suck horrendously.

It’s especially logical to have little faith because they seem to have dug themselves a hole in the ground with multiplayer. They’ve completely centered it around the Infinity experience. How are they to un-bad the Infinity experience? They can’t, because it’s bad. The Infinity experience already killed elites in multiplayer, so there’s absolutely no hope there.

And ANOTHER thing - people are pretty much right when they gloomily say that if Halo 5 sucks, it’s curtains down for 343. Will you actually, seriously, somehow STILL have faith in 343 if they give us ANOTHER Halo 4?

Stay as faithful as you want, but look at the -Yoinking!- facts. Last time Major Nelson posted an Xbox LIVE Activity Chart, Halo 4 was #16. The number one, hugely praised, flagship Xbox exclusive… was #16 on it’s own territory.

It’s hard to be optimistic when 343 made suuuuch a god awful Halo game.

9

Do I have faith in 343? Only lore wise where they are far more competent then Bungie ever could be. In the games department, they lost my faith. You say you can’t earn success without failure. Well, you can’t keep faith with failure either. From what little I have heard about H5G, I am skeptical, which I am allowed to be.

Though I’ll agree on the point that some people are overreacting with some of their arguments.

10

I’m honestly not that bothered either way about multiplayer. I just want a really good campaign. I feel like Halo 4 failed to take advantage of all the lore that’s been built up in the extended universe; it was more of an okay, tick-the-boxes sort of story, without any real breadth, let alone depth. On that front, though, the new Spartan and Sanghelios (?) concept art are already giving me reason to feel optimistic.

11

It started with Bungie, 343 nearly finished the fight lol. K, I had to do that one…anyways

I’m thinkin that 343 got Halo 4 in the bag, at least most of it. The reason is because I loved the TU Dmr, NR, and Pistol update. I was impressed. Not only is that the reason, but 343 has a whole bunch of Community Feedback from Reach to use for Halo 4.

Now I’m not sure what they were looking at or listening to, but 343 did the complete opposite of what I thought and built even more off of Reach and maybe other inspiring games lol.

Why should I have faith when that period(yrs) of Halo Experience are the worst I have ever experienced? I placed all my faith into these two games, I am not hoping for much in Halo 5. I’m not setting myself up for disappointment. My faith is on Life Support at the moment.

12

Other Waypointians and I believe the simple logic of keeping your hope/expectation/faith low, so you don’t get crushed when 343i don’t deliver and you don’t experience the blow that many felt with Halo 4’s release, again.

Also, I don’t think that people are to reluctant to give their faith to 343i, but more or so skeptical of 343i delivering in terms of MP/CG/F/TM and would rather not get knocked off their feet when they try to make Halo their game, again.

13

> > I find it hard to have faith when they did SO many things wrong… and not wrong in the sense that they tried and just weren’t successful… they did things that everybody who had previously played Halo would recognize as terrible on paper.
> >
> > I am still here. I am giving them another chance, but I will not buy Halo 5 if all of their bad ideas aren’t removed. If they mention anything at E3, or anytime before release, about Perks or PODs staying in (for example), I am gone for good.
>
> I don’t think that 343 intentionally made Halo 4 ‘bad’. They wanted to add some new things, new things all together, or new things to the Halo gaming, and it didn’t go so while. They didn’t mean any harm.
>
> Good to see you’re giving them a wary second chance… at least. But do you not think they’ll listen to us? You’ve been active here, you now how much these complaints and thoughts pop up. Think they’ll turn the blind eye? I don’t.
>
>
> > They think Halo 4 sucked and are worried about the next game, not really that hard to understand is it?
>
> But ‘they’ sometimes act like 343’ ears are sealed shut as to hearing what we have to say, and that 343i is incapable of fixing mistakes.

I look at it differently.
Anybody who mentioned/heard within the walls of 343i that “Perks” (and all the other trash) were being added should’ve instantly known that it would ruin Halo.
So either A) They intentionally ruined Halo, or B) they weren’t qualified to make a Halo game.
If you don’t understand that Halo is, and always was, about equal starts, no-randomness, giant skill-gap Arena gameplay, you shouldn’t be making a Halo game. Simple as that.

I’m aware that Bungie started the issues, but 343 took it way farther… and even after the outcry.

14

To put it simply:

It’s better to expect the worst and be surprised than to hope for the best and be disappointed.

15

> Do I have faith in 343? Only lore wise where they are far more competent then Bungie ever could be. In the games department, they lost my faith. <mark>You say you can’t earn success without failure. Well, you can’t keep faith with failure either.</mark> From what little I have heard about H5G, I am skeptical, which I am allowed to be.
>
> Though I’ll agree on the point that some people are overreacting with some of their arguments.

True.

I don’t want this faith thing to get too far out hand, though (to everyone here). It’s not like I’m trying be a kissass to 343 like Simmons was to Sarge. (I hope I don’t sound like it…) My hopes aren’t high, they aren’t low, they aren’t any where at the moment. Guardians is still a good ways away in the future, little is known about it, and nothing’s known about the gameplay.

The big thing I’m trying to say (block of rant free!) is basically this:
They had one solo chance, they stumbled, but they can get back up. I’m sure they’re aware that the ‘randomness’ of everything didn’t go too hot. Such a large voice has already proclaimed that.

Think 343 hasn’t heard it? Think that this randomness will return after the majority has turned away?

Yes, Yaizmat, failure does deteriorate hope. But success can do the same to doubt. And only time will tell.

16

If you think that this argument - to give 343i a chance because it’s not fair for us fans to burn the house down while they try to build it - is a new argument, then I feel like the Book of Pythia may offer you some insight here …

[end mysterious prophetic reference//]

…Remember Reach… and know that I (among others) argued the exact same point you are trying to make here OP.

17

> Do I have faith in 343? Only lore wise where they are far more competent then Bungie ever could be. In the games department, they lost my faith. You say you can’t earn success without failure. Well, you can’t keep faith with failure either. From what little I have heard about H5G, I am skeptical, which I am allowed to be.
>
> Though I’ll agree on the point that some people are overreacting with some of their arguments.

Now that I can agree with.

18

Trust is earned, not given. 343i will have my trust when they earn it. Unfortunately, they have not shown me that they care about the gamers. They did not have anything without Infinity settings at launch. When they finally added a classic-style playlist, it was horribly broken and they refused to fix it. When they finally did fix it, they merged it into the Infinity Slayer playlist in the last slot. They didn’t tell anyone that the August 19 TU content (Champions Bundle, Recharge, Survivor) wouldn’t work in Spartan Ops until a random forum reply on that day (and to this day, there is no official non-forum post that explicitly confirms it won’t work in Spartan Ops). The August 19 TU also introduced several massive bugs that weren’t fixed until months later. The Spartan Assault Operation Hydra TU broke saved progress and that wasn’t fixed for several days (and since then, some players have been having issues with cloud synchronization). Both games have achievement issues that have been unresolved for nearly a year. Either CSR is broken or the information they’ve given to us about it is false, and instead of fixing it or providing us with more information, they just ignore the complaints. They are not forthcoming about anything, they do not adequately explain the science behind their decisions and features, and their PR responses make them seem disinterested in and detached from their players.

What has 343i done well since Halo 4 launched? Well, the Weapon Tuning Update was good, but it wouldn’t have been necessary to rebalance the entire weapon sandbox if the weapon design team was competent to begin with. They also added Ricochet, Rocket Race, Neutral Flag, all of which I’m thankful for. But none of that is enough to make me feel that (1) they know what they’re doing and (2) they give a crap about the quality of their work. I will begin to believe it when I begin to see it.

19

You say have faith in 343i and that they will listen to our concerns and learn from that. How do you know that, I’ve seen no actually evidence to give them my faith. Their product is the evidence I need before I can comfortably say their next installment will be a good one. Until I see proof for myself, I don’t see a reason to blindly assume the next installment will be a good one. I love the Halo franchise and I do like the people at 343i but I don’t like they Halo they created. Even as a moderator, I know that I need to make my own opinions on the news I hear instead of blindly following 343i. E3 will be their first chance to prove it, but I need multiplayer proof before I give them my faith. My saying for Halo 4 when these threads were made a year ago was, “Lets just wait and see if the game is as good as we think it is.” This time around, I need proof before jumping on the bandwagon.

Give me proof, then I will give you my faith.

20

There is no faith OP. It simply does not exist. Come E3 (or when ever their reveal is) there will be a surge of rant threads and everybody will leave. That is what I am guessing though. People do not expect the game to be good and see that as the only way of viewing it.