Where has the competition gone??

Games Other Halo
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Edited by Moderator - Please do not post discriminatory comments.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

So I’ve played halo since the CE days. Had the same gamer tag on live for about 8 years now and I’m deeply upset with the direction online play has gone. It seems as though game creators are doing everything they can to get rid of competitiveness online and turn us all into a bunch of french -Yoink-'s that care about things like “sportsmanship” and “for the love of the game”. In actuality no one gives two -Yoink- about those things. Rather they play a game like halo for the competitive nature of the game and to feel like they have achieved something. Halo reach is where it all went wrong. It seems like the game creators just went and did the TrueSkill system in because a few people after years of game play found a not so easy way to beat it and get a level 50 rank…but news flash, if they won the games against super high levels then they deserved the 50…end of story. Im creating this topic for people to -Yoink- about how 343 studios doesnt understand its gamer base and how we all really want a ranking system back…I think you’ll agree that if you dont want the ranking system then go play social…theres no shame in that…for those of us that want the true nature of the game back…give us our true skill rank and let us wear it proud like the true accomplishment it is…not some faggy armor that we save up points for and takes no skill to achieve.

If you agree or disagree post here and maybe, just maybe someone like Frank O’Connor or Kiki Wolfkill might read it and let the light bulb go off in their head about what gamers really want…and what keeps the longevity of the game.

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Funny that everything you just described was implemented by Bungie and not 343.

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> Funny that everything you just described was implemented by Bungie and not 343.

So, because it was implemented by Bungie, 343i should continue on where they left off?

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One thing I think we’re not communicating clearly enough to the developers and naysayers is this: The primary reason for having a ranking system is NOT so we can be matched up with players of equal skill, though that’s a benefit of it.

The primary reason is that it gives you a visible indicator of your personal prowess, something to measure yourself by, to strive to improve upon, to discuss with others. It’s not rocket science: in the presence of a visible ranking based on W/L, players actually try to win. Despite all the negative things attached to Halo 3’s 1-50, it kept everyone coming back for more and was what made the game so fun and addictive. We NEED that visible, skill-based ranking in Halo 4 for the sheer sake of making the game fun and worth playing. Invisible TrueSkill, no matter how well-implemented or tightly focused it is, completely fails to address that need.

Edit: Don’t get me wrong, I love 343. They’ve done so much for the fans, all that we could possibly ask for and more. Halo 4’s progression system looks incredibly fun and I’m not knocking it. I just want there to be a visible skill ranking as well. 343’s done a fantastic job at listening to fan feedback thus far, which gives me hope that if enough people reiterate my point, they’ll take notice and do something about it. Spread the word.

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> > Funny that everything you just described was implemented by Bungie and not 343.
>
> So, because it was implemented by Bungie, 343i should continue on where they left off?

343 cannot change the system that was done by Bungie for Reach and as for Halo 4 we do not know what it is truly like until we get our hands on it.

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> One thing I think we’re not communicating clearly enough to the developers and naysayers is this: The primary reason for having a ranking system is NOT so we can be matched up with players of equal skill, though that’s a benefit of it.
>
> The primary reason is that it gives you a visible indicator of your personal prowess, something to measure yourself by, to strive to improve upon, to discuss with others. It’s not rocket science: in the presence of a visible ranking based on W/L, players actually try to win. Despite all the negative things attached to Halo 3’s 1-50, it kept everyone coming back for more and was what made the game so fun and addictive. We NEED that visible, skill-based ranking in Halo 4 for the sheer sake of making the game fun and worth playing. Invisible TrueSkill, no matter how well-implemented or tightly focused it is, completely fails to address that need.
>
> Edit: Don’t get me wrong, I love 343. They’ve done so much for the fans, all that we could possibly ask for and more. Halo 4’s progression system looks incredibly fun and I’m not knocking it. I just want there to be a visible skill ranking as well. 343’s done a fantastic job at listening to fan feedback thus far, which gives me hope that if enough people reiterate my point, they’ll take notice and do something about it. Spread the word.

That brought a tear to my eye…very eloquently worded. I’m glad I’m not the only that believes it is the need to strive for greatness that makes halo so fun. It is the need to achieve, the need to feel victorious that drives good halo play. I still play halo 3 and still feel the heart pounding adrenaline in the primitive part of my brain that strives to be better. When anything appeals to a persons most basic instincts in some way or fashion then it is truly enjoyed…this is why the scary movie business, prostitutes, and halo have all historically done so well for themselves. I’d be a liar if I said I felt half of that passion even once while playing Reach and that is because there is nothing to achieve.

If anyone from 343 is reading this please know that the community wants Halo back the way it was meant to be and that is with true skill, levels, and that special euphoric high one gets from the last game of the night when it’s tied 49 to 49 on Pit with a minute left to play and you see sniper spawn at the same time the enemy is crossing short bridge to hit your guy on training and you throw down the quick scope head shot mili-seconds before he kills your teammate ending the game in a heart pounding victory that gives you that level 49 you’ve been working so hard for. That is halo, not running around on a grind sessions trying to get the coolest armor before the other guy only to quit playing the second you get it.

If your with 343 give us Halo, not some poor excuse for it.

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It mirrors our education system that rewards mediocrity and failure. Kids nowadays dont get told they have done a crap project. Instead they get positive feedback. If i do a crap report for my boss he doesnt tell me “he really likes the colour of the paper i have done it on”. He kicks my butt.
The old ranking system used to make you work hard to move up one ranking point and then immediately take that point back when you failed. Kids today cant handle that so game developers build ranking systems that reward you for participation to attract people to buy their game. It also explains why so many kids under 15 now play Reach.

There someone had to talk about the “elephant in the room”. Now watch the gen Y and gen Z’s flame me for it.

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You got a good point and thanks for bringing it up. I personally don’t believe in waiting for a product before asking for it to be a certain way. Every year before a game comes out they’re those that let their concerns be heard before release and those that say lets wait and see. It can go three ways, either we wait and scream on release, we express our wants and hope they already have it implemented while laughing at our lack of faith or we express our wants and they say oh ***t we need to get this into a release day patch.
So here is my want in support of the op. I would love to have that 1 to 50 true skill system so i can sign in everyday and try to become a general with skill, not hours played.
In halo you should be able to brag about your high level without people responding get a life.
My skill level in past games was around 45; which I earned within the first few months and everyday for the life cycle of the game i tried to get to 50.
p.s cod seems to be trying to fill that halo niche with that true skill ranking. They’re taking notes I hope 343i did not lose them.

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OP, I’m not against a visible ranking system. However, I am against some of the assumptions that you’ve made in your attempt to advocate for one. :\

>

The problem with speaking for everyone is that people that do that are usually wrong.

> Rather they play a game like halo for the competitive nature of the game and to feel like they have achieved something.

You speak as though competitive play and sportsmanship are mutually exclusive.

> It seems like the game creators just went and did the TrueSkill system in because a few people after years of game play found a not so easy way to beat it and get a level 50 rank…

If that were the reason, then Arena would’ve been nuked as well, because there’s no easy way to “beat it” and get Onyx.

If I’m not mistaken, the official explanation that was given was that 1-50 was prone to boosting.

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DavidJCobb, I’d be interested in hearing your take on the issue, since I tend to agree with most of your ideas.

Visible 1-50 is prone to boosting and deranking, and that seems to be the official explanation given. But eliminating it is not a good solution.

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True it was prone to boosting, but i sure would like to meet ah booster that can maintain that 50. So i say let them boost all they want their 50 does not effect me it might help me get mine though :smiley: but then i wont be able to maintain it and get demoted :frowning:

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Probably too late for Halo 4, but I’d just like them to scrap the old systems and try to invent something just as addictive. They are young and new, and full of ideas, so I think they can come up with something just as fun as the past games.

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This is a topic that I feel very strongly about - the multiplayer ranking system is what I think will make or break the game in terms of multiplayer

I believe that if Halo 4 has a prominent ranking system similar to the one in halo 3, then Halo 4 will have competitive, lively, and popular multiplayer for a much longer time than halo reach did.

My friends and I, who used to play halo 2 and 3 like crack addicts, loved halo for its competitive nature. People who claim that the Halo Reach multiplayer was ruined by armor abilities are on the wrong track. In my opinion it was because the competitive Arena playlist was very small in comparison to the entire multiplayer experience, and I think that Halo’s multiplayer playlists should be split equally into two Categories:

Ranked and Social.

This was a great balance because it made good competitive games and casual games both very accessible and popular. My friends and I used to play social to warm up and then we would play a few intense ranked matches and play our hearts out.

RANKED MATCHES:
When the player’s ultimate goal of a game is to win, the game is very competitive and relies heavily on teamwork, and the experienced halo players will always have something to play for.

SOCIAL MATCHES
When the player’s goal is to rack up as many kills as possible, the game is very disorganized and hectic. Players will vote for the most compact and intense map so they can get kills faster. This allows players to goof off and have a silly fun time, and it’s a great place for beginners to learn the game.

When gamers really get into halo, they want to play it like it’s a professional sport. While they want to score as many goals as they can, they will pass the ball or make a sacrifice bunt if it means the team has a better chance of winning.

However some gamers play video games like they are an arcade machine rather than a competitive sport; they simply want to beat the highest score individually.

I feel that halo was built on the values of team play, and this spirit should be reflected in Halo 4’s matchmaking. I think it is a great idea to implement some ideas that work well in games like call of duty because it attracts more people into the game and makes less serious gamers more comfortable, however I also believe that it would be a critical mistake to stray from the roots of halo’s multiplayer, and so there should always be a ranking system in halo similar to that of halo 3 - one where you are not only given a rank for winning/losing matches, but you can also wear this ranking like a badge when you enter multiplayer pre-game lobbies.

It seems to me that there is a significant base of fans (if not the majority) that loved halo for its competitive multiplayer ranking system, and to diminish it, by implementing a arcade-style ranking system, would be detrimental to halo’s fan base.

If the statement above is not true, and halo 4 would in fact be more successful without halo 3’s ranking system, I just hope that
343i cares more about halo veterans’ satisfaction with the game, rather than choosing the arcade route that may allow halo 4 more sales.

I hope 343 takes our opinions into account and acts with integrity. Hopefully, under their direction, the Halo series will continue to provide competitive multiplayer, even if it doesn’t make as many sales as call of duty.

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^^^^ Exactly my thoughts iscarudababadoo

Halo is meant to be competitive. Taking away it’s competitive nature would be like neutering a wild dog, or like taking the spicy out of hot wings. It would basically be widening the fan base at the expense of the games potential greatness as a halo game.

I wouldn’t worry though, 343 looks like they know what they’re doing, and they said that many of the people who work there are old-school halo fans themselves.

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Double that Iscarudayo

I used to play tons of halo 3 Ranked multiplayer, and I stopped playing reach very early because there wasn’t a playlist that could live up to halo 3’s Ranked playlists

I’m speaking for myself and my 7 halo buddies when I say that I wont be getting halo 4 until I see some kind of system similar to halo 3’s ranked match system

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I wish I could say that i am not getting it. I’m weak i love my halo but Bungie drove me to cod with reach. I hope 343i can sling me my halo just the way i need it. I will give them my money in hope; 343i don’t treat me like my last dealer and we will have a beautiful relationship frowned upon only by the wife. Ranked/Social bring it back true skill all day for me and my crew.

… I think I need an intervention.

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> DavidJCobb, I’d be interested in hearing your take on the issue, since I tend to agree with most of your ideas.
>
> Visible 1-50 is prone to boosting and deranking, and that seems to be the official explanation given. But eliminating it is not a good solution.

I have no opinion on visible TrueSkill, actually, because I’ve been on both sides of the issue.

On the one hand, I do like knowing the particular composition of my and the opposing team – whether it’s two teams full of more-or-less equal players; or whether it’s two teams of subpars like myself, each led by one or two standouts. It’s nice to be able to look at the scoreboard in the pre-game lobby and say, “Hey, I think we got a pretty good shot,” or “Lol we’re so getting trashed.”

On the other hand, the trash-talking and bullying that visible 1-50 are ridiculous. A lot of people play Halo for leisure, and they shouldn’t have to deal with people (mis)using visible TrueSkill as some sort of status symbol, as if some random video game statistic could quantify one’s worth as a person. Some low-skills, like me, just find it tiresome, but for others, it’s too much to handle. It worsens the unfortunate casual-competitive divide, and leads to retaliatory insults such as the at-the-time-ubiquitous “HOW MUCH WAS YOUR 50?”

I’ve weighed the positives against the negatives and found that the two were more-or-less equal. That, and since I haven’t experienced either in some time, thanks to Reach, both sides have dulled in my mind, leaving me generally apathetic on the matter. :\

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> > DavidJCobb, I’d be interested in hearing your take on the issue, since I tend to agree with most of your ideas.
> >
> > Visible 1-50 is prone to boosting and deranking, and that seems to be the official explanation given. But eliminating it is not a good solution.
>
> I have no opinion on visible TrueSkill, actually, because I’ve been on both sides of the issue.
>
> On the one hand, I do like knowing the particular composition of my and the opposing team – whether it’s two teams full of more-or-less equal players; or whether it’s two teams of subpars like myself, each led by one or two standouts. It’s nice to be able to look at the scoreboard in the pre-game lobby and say, “Hey, I think we got a pretty good shot,” or “Lol we’re so getting trashed.”
>
> On the other hand, the trash-talking and bullying that visible 1-50 are ridiculous. A lot of people play Halo for leisure, and they shouldn’t have to deal with people (mis)using visible TrueSkill as some sort of status symbol, as if some random video game statistic could quantify one’s worth as a person. Some low-skills, like me, just find it tiresome, but for others, it’s too much to handle. It worsens the unfortunate casual-competitive divide, and leads to retaliatory insults such as the at-the-time-ubiquitous “HOW MUCH WAS YOUR 50?”
>
> I’ve weighed the positives against the negatives and found that the two were more-or-less equal. That, and since I haven’t experienced either in some time, thanks to Reach, both sides have dulled in my mind, leaving me generally apathetic on the matter. :\

Yes I understand your distaste for those that insult due to a bad game or what seems like poor game play…but they may be one in every 50 and I hate to use such a basic cliche’ but stick and stones my friend sticks and stones… An entire community should not have something they loved and enjoyed so much stripped away because a few kids cant handle a little verbal abuse…I believe if someone making fun of one over xbox live causes such emotional damage that one cant even deal with the a playlist existing then that person has a lot more serious problems to worry about that the happenings of xbox live.

In regards to the statement about about the original halo guys working for 343i…I dont think that will bring about such revolutionary game play as we think…Lets not forget that the multiplayer of halo was an after thought and more so a fluke to have been as successful as it was. The original game creators are amazing at campaigns not multiplayer… I think its up to the involved players in this forum and the many more out there like us to tell 343i what want and demand that we get nothing less.

I also really wish we could get some honest indication that 343i even listens to the TRUE fan base about what gamers like myself really want…And one last thing…Good job to the guy who pointed out the COD thing with the TrueSkill implementation…It seems as though 343i is letting an inferior game take our notes we are just sitting by watching the base crumble beneath our feet.

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> > On the other hand, the trash-talking and bullying that visible 1-50 are ridiculous. A lot of people play Halo for leisure, and they shouldn’t have to deal with people (mis)using visible TrueSkill as some sort of status symbol, as if some random video game statistic could quantify one’s worth as a person. Some low-skills, like me, just find it tiresome, but for others, it’s too much to handle. It worsens the unfortunate casual-competitive divide, and leads to retaliatory insults such as the at-the-time-ubiquitous “HOW MUCH WAS YOUR 50?”
>
> That’s a good point. I usually muted everyone who was annoying on the mic and I would just talk to my friends, but it’s always nice when you don’t have to mute everyone as soon as the lobby opens.
>
> Sometimes I think that there are just some gamers that, no matter what type of ranking system is in place, still find ways to be obnoxious and trash-talk, so I am glad that halo’s mute function worked so well.
>
> I think I find myself in a place between leisure and competition. I personally liked how the ranking system made a hierarchy of the players on a team, as long as it wasn’t taken too seriously.
>
> Maybe a solution for this is to have less ranks, maybe numbers 1-10, and then the rank difference between players would be much less. I kind of liked the ranking system in the Halo Reach Arena playlist, but I feel like the playlist was limited and smothered by the other playlists to the point that it was a very unpopular multiplayer playlist, and I also would have liked it to be slightly deeper than iron Bronze, silver, gold, and onyx.
>
> PS: isn’t it also true that the 1-50 number ranks would only appear next to your gamertag when you were in a ranked match lobby?

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> Maybe a solution for this is to have less ranks, maybe numbers 1-10, and then the rank difference between players would be much less. I kind of liked the ranking system in the Halo Reach Arena playlist, but I feel like the playlist was limited and smothered by the other playlists to the point that it was a very unpopular multiplayer playlist, and I also would have liked it to be slightly deeper than iron Bronze, silver, gold, and onyx.

That’d be interesting.

They can’t change TrueSkill itself, but they can change the display. Divide the number by 5 or 10 to reduce visible granularity, and boom. Not sure how well it’d work, but it’s certainly an interesting idea.

The trick is that the same thing that allows it to potentially reduce flaming – giving flamers less information – also lessens its ability to fulfill its positive purposes.

> PS: isn’t it also true that the 1-50 number ranks would only appear next to your gamertag when you were in a ranked match lobby?

Don’t recall. I think so, but I think H3 Social also used much looser skill matching under-the-hood. Invisible TrueSkill plus loose skill matching is bad – the teams will be uneven, at least one side (possibly both) won’t enjoy the match, and no one will be able to see it coming.

My memory’s pretty faint on that, though. Most of my H3 time was spent in Squad Battle, since I didn’t get the DLC 'til very late-game.