Where halo 4 failed (IMO)

Games Other Halo
1

Before i hop into this i would like to state a few things. First i know halo 4 has issues i know it’s not perfect. I am aware that halo 4 is not an arena shooter and that these new mechanics have changed the multiplayer instead of complimenting it like 1-3’s changes did. But what halo 4’s problems are and wether this change is good or bad is subjective.

Now to get into the meat and potatoes of my post. Please read and think carefully about the underlined statement. Halo 4 is good for what it was trying to accomplish. 343 wanted to blur the line between story and MP. They wanted to create a more accessible more involved experience for the player. Your load outs was YOUR style. In that sense 343 accomplished what they set out to do. In that sense Multiplayer was near perfect. (obviously things like the weapon tuning was needed and a good addition to their mp. No MP is perfect.)

But…Where halo 4 failed in my opinion is what was not brought to the table. Lacking custom options. No classic playlist at launch. Missing campaign theater. Missing gametypes etc. I don’t feel like these new editions break the MP for 2 reasons.

  1. Because we are not looking at traditional MP anymore. This concept is simple. Let’s say for instance sprint. Add it to halo 2 or 3 and you get the issues we saw in reach with sprint. But in halo 4 since we practically have nothing to fight over, the maps are built with sprint in mind and are much simpler in design, and no more power positions. In halo 4’s style of play sprint poses very few issues. This concept can be applied to any new addition in halo 4.

  2. The golden triangle is still very prominent. Meaning even though we have these new layers of combat if we look past POD and other additions we still see basic halo play. Strafing proper nading 4 shotting etc. So again in my opinion this game still feels like halo even though on the surface it acts differently.

So here we are at the end of my argument. We can some up things pretty nicely here. It’s clear that people don’t like halo 4 and some do. This is normal. But when we speak of things that break game play i believe is only possible if we continue to look at halo 4 as old halo. So if you are expecting old halo play of course the game looks “broken.” But if we look at it from 343’s view and what they were trying to create it is not.

Halo 4 could have launched better. It was missing many things, playlists were a mess, DLC handled poorly, no classic playlist etc. But it’s still not a failure for what it is. I’m not saying one halo is better then the other. I’m not invalidating anyone who dislikes anything. I am merely trying to give a perspective on why people like me still find the game good. Considering the changes 343 is making and that they won’t have space limitations being an issue anymore ON TOP OF admitting some mistakes halo 5 should be a great game for all. If you made it this far thank you for reading :slight_smile:

2

Dead horse, OP may I provide you with a sufficient whacking stick?

Anyway, I think 343i is aware that there is an issue.

I just hope they don’t go down with the ship in Halo 5 and stick with it, and I hope they address their community properly, I also hope they use their community effectively. What they did with Halo 4 was basically hype the crap out of Halo 4, take absolutely no input from the community and blindly made a game on their own with no real gauge on their own fanbase.

Things to do differently in Halo 5? Bring in some real halo fans\players and some competitive people throughout development to hash out the game that’s more solid. Because of 343i we have broken and non-existent objectives, a divided community on slayer and the list goes on.

I said it before and will say it again, 343i, you have a dedicated community, use us to your full advantage and I think we will all turn out happier.

3

We have had traditional MP for so many years now, something new needs to happen. While it would be nice to have it as a option to play it in Halo 5, more variety (Not COD) would be nice. As for Sprint, I have always wanted Sprint. This, for me, was the problem in Halo 3. The pacing was too slow and the maps we’re a bit too big.

Sprint fixed this, and where we like the maps or not, they work. Loadouts, as much as I want to disagree, offer mine and mores craving for variety. Think about it, there is so much happening in BTB and TS. We have our own assortment of guns, grenades, and AAs. Perks are one thing I could see going, as they have too randomness. (Lasering a mantis with the person surviving, Shields recharging faster then others, etc.)

“But…Where halo 4 failed in my opinion is what was not brought to the table. Lacking custom options. No classic playlist at launch. Missing campaign theater. Missing gametypes etc. I don’t feel like these new editions break the MP for 2 reasons.”

This is not burger king. You cannot have it your way.

4

> Dead horse, OP may I provide you with a sufficient whacking stick?
>
> Anyway, I think 343i is aware that there is an issue.
>
> I just hope they don’t go down with the ship in Halo 5 and stick with it, and I hope they address their community properly, I also hope they use their community effectively. What they did with Halo 4 was basically hype the crap out of Halo 4, take absolutely no input from the community and blindly made a game on their own with no real gauge on their own fanbase.
>
> Things to do differently in Halo 5? Bring in some real halo fans\players and some competitive people throughout development to hash out the game that’s more solid. Because of 343i we have broken and non-existent objectives, a divided community on slayer and the list goes on.
>
> I said it before and will say it again, 343i, you have a dedicated community, use us to your full advantage and I think we will all turn out happier.

Considering how many changes 343 did post launch and that some additions were to fix some of the communities issues i’d say 343 DOES use player feedback quite nicely.

The rest of your post i can’t even reply to as you use terms like “real halo players” which not only doesn’t exist but frankly makes me throw up in my mouth.

5

> We have had traditional MP for so many years now, something new needs to happen. While it would be nice to have it as a option to play it in Halo 5, more variety (Not COD) would be nice. As for Sprint, I have always wanted Sprint. This, for me, was the problem in Halo 3. The pacing was too slow and the maps we’re a bit too big.
>
> Sprint fixed this, and where we like the maps or not, they work. Loadouts, as much as I want to disagree, offer mine and mores craving for variety. Think about it, there is so much happening in BTB and TS. We have our own assortment of guns, grenades, and AAs. Perks are one thing I could see going, as they have too randomness. (Lasering a mantis with the person surviving, Shields recharging faster then others, etc.)
>
> “But…Where halo 4 failed in my opinion is what was not brought to the table. Lacking custom options. No classic playlist at launch. Missing campaign theater. Missing gametypes etc. I don’t feel like these new editions break the MP for 2 reasons.”
>
> This is not burger king. You cannot have it your way.

You argue as if i’m against the new changes. I am not. But it is FACT that we are missing many things that were in most halo games simply because space was an issue. I understand not everyone gets what they want. But bungie did a great job of supporting all play styles. There is no reason to not continue to do so. Saying the new way is the right way and the only way is just as bad as the people demanding halo should stay classic forever.

There is no reason we can’t or should not have better custom options for many gametypes. Communities are meant to give feedback and help improve the game. Laying back and saying everything is fine deal with it like you are is not constructive or helpful.

The point of the thread was to give another perspective and i suggest you leave it at that or don’t post.

6

> > Dead horse, OP may I provide you with a sufficient whacking stick?
> >
> > Anyway, I think 343i is aware that there is an issue.
> >
> > I just hope they don’t go down with the ship in Halo 5 and stick with it, and I hope they address their community properly, I also hope they use their community effectively. What they did with Halo 4 was basically hype the crap out of Halo 4, take absolutely no input from the community and blindly made a game on their own with no real gauge on their own fanbase.
> >
> > Things to do differently in Halo 5? Bring in some real halo fans\players and some competitive people throughout development to hash out the game that’s more solid. Because of 343i we have broken and non-existent objectives, a divided community on slayer and the list goes on.
> >
> > I said it before and will say it again, 343i, you have a dedicated community, use us to your full advantage and I think we will all turn out happier.
>
> Considering how many changes 343 did post launch and that some additions were to fix some of the communities issues i’d say 343 DOES use player feedback quite nicely.
>
> The rest of your post i can’t even reply to as you use terms like “real halo players” which not only doesn’t exist but frankly makes me throw up in my mouth.

I’m pretty sure that he meant people who play and enjoy Halo when he said “real Halo players.” He wasn’t ever calling out any form of Halo fan, except for Halo fans themselves.

Among Halo’s fanbase, there is no “real Halo fan.” We are the same, our voices are one. We are the Flood… There is no difference.

7

I’ll put this as nicely as possible because I feel like you and I have clashed a little today.

What you’re basically saying is that Halo 4 succeeds at what it set out to achieve, but that what it set out to achieve was not aligned with Halo’s past, which has led to a lot of disappointed fans.

And guess what, you’re absolutely right, but here’s where I disagree…

You go on to say that we shouldn’t be judging it as a Halo game, but instead as the game that it sets out to be, and that we are more likely to appreciate it that way.

The problem?..

It is an FPS with Halo in the title, and is a continuation of an established franchise. What else are we supposed to judge it as?
When we buy any game from an established franchise, there is an assumption that it will be consistent with the previous games as far as core mechanics go. That’s why there is so much talk of core gameplay when it comes to Halo 4 discussion, because core gameplay is what has changed the most, but is actually the thing which needs to remain the most consistent.

While you may love Halo 4 for what it is, and it’s great that you do, you shouldn’t be surprised that Halo 4 has caused so much disappointment.

8

@ L Gidy L

What’s with the Burger King reference? Is the OP not allowed to state his personal reasons for disliking Halo 4?
All he did was state that he dislikes that certain features are missing, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

9

> > > Dead horse, OP may I provide you with a sufficient whacking stick?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I think 343i is aware that there is an issue.
> > >
> > > I just hope they don’t go down with the ship in Halo 5 and stick with it, and I hope they address their community properly, I also hope they use their community effectively. What they did with Halo 4 was basically hype the crap out of Halo 4, take absolutely no input from the community and blindly made a game on their own with no real gauge on their own fanbase.
> > >
> > > Things to do differently in Halo 5? Bring in some real halo fans\players and some competitive people throughout development to hash out the game that’s more solid. Because of 343i we have broken and non-existent objectives, a divided community on slayer and the list goes on.
> > >
> > > I said it before and will say it again, 343i, you have a dedicated community, use us to your full advantage and I think we will all turn out happier.
> >
> > Considering how many changes 343 did post launch and that some additions were to fix some of the communities issues i’d say 343 DOES use player feedback quite nicely.
> >
> > The rest of your post i can’t even reply to as you use terms like “real halo players” which not only doesn’t exist but frankly makes me throw up in my mouth.
>
> I’m pretty sure that he meant people who play and enjoy Halo when he said “real Halo players.” He wasn’t ever calling out any form of Halo fan, except for Halo fans themselves.
>
> Among Halo’s fanbase, there is no “real Halo fan.” We are the same, our voices are one. We are the Flood… There is no difference.

He should have been more clear. Because all the term “real halo fan” does on the forum is provide a negative impact.

10

> I’ll put this as nicely as possible because I feel like you and I have clashed a little today.
>
> What you’re basically saying is that Halo 4 succeeds at what it set out to achieve, but that what it set out to achieve was not aligned with Halo’s past, which has led to a lot of disappointed fans.
>
> And guess what, you’re absolutely right, but here’s where I disagree…
>
> You go on to say that we shouldn’t be judging it as a Halo game, but instead as the game that it sets out to be, and that we are more likely to appreciate it that way.
>
> The problem?..
>
> It is an FPS with Halo in the title, and is a continuation of an established franchise. What else are we supposed to judge it as?
> When we buy any game from an established franchise, there is an assumption that it will be consistent with the previous games as far as core mechanics go. That’s why there is so much talk of core gameplay when it comes to Halo 4 discussion, because core gameplay is what has changed the most, but is actually the thing which needs to remain the most consistent.
>
> While you may love Halo 4 for what it is, and it’s great that you do, you shouldn’t be surprised that Halo 4 has caused so much disappointment.

  1. I didn’t say not to judge it as not a halo game. I said it’s not classic halo. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a halo game. Judge it anyway you wish that is your right. But halo 4 was sucessful in what 343 was trying to achieve. I am not arguing that this halo is better then old so i really don’t know why you brought this up. I was giving a perspective not changing your feelings.

  2. If you are going to go the continuation route halo 4 does continue as a halo MP. Both in the fact that it’s going off of reaches MP which was the lastest MP so continuation…and the fact that some things in the MP are elements that evolved over time. (like equipment to AA’s)

I really don’t understand why my post is coming off differently to people. I Made it as clear as i could. There is no right or wrong here.

11

You’re right: if we judge Halo 4 by the same standards as we judge other games, it’s still a pretty awesome game. My service record shows that I’ve logged over 11 days in it, and that’s a very long time for me.

However:

  1. It is a Halo game, and so of course fans of previous Halo games were expecting gameplay like the previous games. To me, Halo 4 feels like a Halo game, but it doesn’t play like one. Since Halo 4 plays so much differently from its predecessors, if 343i is going to continue down the path of class- or loadout-based gameplay with elements of randomness thrown in, they are going to have to build a new fanbase from scratch.

(And that would make me very sad.)

  1. Almost everything that Halo 4 is was already built in previous Halo games. Its success wasn’t due to 343i’s efforts as much as it was due to Bungie’s years of labor and refinement. I’m hopeful that 343i is going to do some great things with the franchise, but as far as multiplayer is concerned, I do not believe that they are as revolutionary or innovative as Bungie is. Whereas Halo: CE and Halo 2 set standards in and revolutionized the FPS genre, Halo 4 is basically Halo 3 with a few cookie-cutter features common in recent FPS games (in particular, custom loadouts and sprint as a base trait) pasted onto it. As far as multiplayer gameplay is concerned, 343i made no innovations at all with Halo 4.
12

I honestly think the network issues that plagued the game, especially in the beginning, turned more people away then any setting or gameplay change.

13

> I honestly think the network issues that plagued the game, especially in the beginning, turned more people away then any setting or gameplay change.

Dude, I’ve been saying that since day 2 of Halo 4. I still remember clearly stating that without a local only search option that the game would die in months.

14

> 1) I didn’t say not to judge it as not a halo game. I said it’s not classic halo. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a halo game. Judge it anyway you wish that is your right. But halo 4 was sucessful in what 343 was trying to achieve. I am not arguing that this halo is better then old so i really don’t know why you brought this up. I was giving a perspective not changing your feelings.

“Please read and think carefully about the underlined statement. Halo 4 is good for what it was trying to accomplish.”

“This is normal. But when we speak of things that break game play i believe is only possible if we continue to look at halo 4 as old halo.”

“So if you are expecting old halo play of course the game looks “broken.” But if we look at it from 343’s view and what they were trying to create it is not.”

“Halo 4 could have launched better. It was missing many things, playlists were a mess, DLC handled poorly, no classic playlist etc. But it’s still not a failure for what it is.”

It seems like you were trying to send a certain message, with the message being that if we look at Halo 4 as just another game, as opposed to another Halo game, then it is easier to appreciate.

My point still stands; why on Earth would we judge it as anything other than a Halo game?

> 2) If you are going to go the continuation route halo 4 does continue as a halo MP. Both in the fact that it’s going off of reaches MP which was the lastest MP so continuation…and the fact that some things in the MP are elements that evolved over time. (like equipment to AA’s)

You’re playing with words now, and not being as subtle as you could be about it.

Halo 4 doesn’t have to continue absolutely nothing, for it to be an inappropriate continuation of the Halo games.
If you put a Needler and a BR in the next Call of Duty, put Halo in the title and claimed that it was a continuation of the Halo series because it had something from the previous Halo games, then you wouldn’t be wrong.
But that’s clearly not the same use of the word ‘continue’ that I am using. I am talking about a continuation of core gameplay.

> I really don’t understand why my post is coming off differently to people. I Made it as clear as i could. There is no right or wrong here.

Refer to your quotes above ^^

They give the impression that your agenda was to tell people that they are somehow doing something wrong by judging it as a Halo game, whether or not that was your mission with this thread.

15

lol

16

They didn’t set the game up to keep people playing, plain and simple. Only 130, Bad custom game options, bad menu options, no campaign or SO scoring. I think these things made people loose interest fast. Ya know, besides all the people that said “screw this game” right of the bat because of loadouts and PO. Those people pretty much left right away.

17

Without looking at multiplayer because to be frank its additions and subtractions are personal preference based on individuals Halo 4 did the following

Not have a working file share for the first 6 months of release
Downgraded custom game options
Downgraded forge
Downgraded theatre
Removed spops/campaign theatre
Removed campaign scoring
Removed finding skulls
Removed in game rank
Removed campaign medals
Downgraded UI
Downgraded host selection
CSR is a failed replacement for in game rank
Poor netcoding/ no local filter good connection search option
Removed FF replaced by failed spops experiment
Added broken JiP system
Added broken kill cams

If “halo 4 was sucessful in what 343 was trying to achieve” then we should all be very…very concerned with this concerned with H5