Where are we on improving Warzone?

Hey yo,

I am pretty much reaching my breaking point with Warzone. This gametype has defined my Halo 5 experience, and in the past I found ways to work through some of the challenges. However, 343’s lack of effort to make improvements and further fine-tune the gameplay in this area is translating into a poor and worsening experience.

The problems that have persisted for almost a year are still rampant, and getting worse in many cases. As the population naturally declines over the games lifecycle, little is being done to keep engagement and interest for the casual player.

Several issues have persisted for quite a while. What is being done to make improvements??

  • Matchmaking: This has been the bane of the existence for Warzone players almost since launch. The matchmaking is absolutely horrid. I have mentioned some of these points before. Even worse, 343 essentially denied the prevalence of farming. With population numbers dwindling, there is a huge gap in the player base. For the most part, I’m come across the “tryhards” or “casuals”. There is no middle ground. I have done considerable sampling of the “expanded” vs “balanced” search function. There is literally zero difference. If you don’t match a full squad, you match a complete mishmash of randoms. I can’t remember the last time I played an actual ‘balanced’ matchup. It’s either farm or get farmed. The majority is the latter.
    Solution? - Either create a “squad” and “social” Warzone playlist, or limit Warzone groups to 4 people.

After bouncing from company to company, like so many do, I resigned to just play with my few friends and try to just enjoy the game with them. Every game we sound like a broken record, “Let’s bust out our nasty reqs this game!”. However, that never goes down. We are mostly getting farmed, and it’s frustrating to pull out a req to get smashed before you even get a second to use it.

- Boss Refresh: Originally, I appreciated the attempt to shake things up in Warzone. However, this change has made Warzone so chaotic that the core purpose of the game is busted. I commented on this before: Here and Here. In the latter example, when 343 responded, I kinda felt bad for being rude. However, I am not regretting that feeling. That post was made over 4 months ago. You have plenty of data and metrics to see what a mess this is. Noctus is completely unplayable. Bosses stack all over the map, you can’t even spawn in many cases. The combination of the ‘matchmaking’ and ‘boss refresh’ issues is evident when you come across full squads. The don’t even bother with the objectives or AI. They triple-cap and farm until enough people quit that they can core. The boss refresh is a mess, and Mythic bosses have no place in Warzone. In Warzone, you have to slay, hold bases, and kill bosses to score points against other teams. That is more than enough objectives. Mythic bosses makes sense ONLY in FireFight, where a WHOLE TEAM is focused on that SOLE objective. I’m tired of spawning a banshee, hearing the stupid grunt jockey fire his needles on the other side of the map, and a few seconds later, i’m getting blown up by him. Obnoxious.
Solutions? - Increase boss time spawns, don’t allow new AI to spawn until old ones are killed. Remove/reduce Mythic bosses. Limit AI agro range.

343 - You have had plenty of time to look at “data and metrics”. A lot of improvements that can really benefit Warzone don’t require massive coding efforts or massive changes to the gameplay. I can’t fathom how no action has been taken. You have seen the disease you created with Achilles, surely. Since then, nothing has been done to add balance to the gametype.

I’m pretty much ready to give up on this game after A LOT of time invested. Updates with “content” were cranked out regularly, which coincidentally resulted in shiney new req packs for people to buy. Do your customers a solid and FIX your game and do some things to improve it in good faith, as opposed to adding something just meant to drive more req sales.

There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.

The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.

Yeah? I don’t play WZ much anymore, but I’ve noticed a lot of companies just stomping and quick-coring, but not a lot of farming anymore.

> 2533274816788253;2:
> There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
> The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.

> 2533274808210415;3:
> Yeah? I don’t play WZ much anymore, but I’ve noticed a lot of companies just stomping and quick-coring, but not a lot of farming anymore.

Same; farming happens and has always happened (I still have nightmares of Halo 3 CTF games…) but more often than not for me it’s a < 5 min core destruction rather than a 10 ~ 15+ minute farmfest.
Usually, it’s just a bad game. But, that’s just in my experience: mileage may vary.

I somewhat agree on Bosses though; the mythics are definitely a game changer and sometimes a frustrating one, and it DOES suck to aggro the Grunt Goblin from 250m+ away without even intending to ><

> 2533274816788253;2:
> Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key.
>
> warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone.

So I’m getting really tired of the “warzone is supposed to be chaos” response.

And you contradict yourself clearly in saying what I quoted above.

Warzone is the “biggest gametype in Halo history”. Big game types require strategy - capturing points, targeting bosses, etc. And - Yes, that requires teamwork.

So if it’s supposed to be chaos, that means disorganization and madness. Which it certainly is. If we all want chaos, why even have objective points? Take away control points then. Just have two home bases, everyone meets in the middle with bosses and nukes each other. There, that’s your chaos then.

But that isn’t how Warzone is designed. So, how are you supposed to strategize chaos? Especially when the issues I highlighted contribute to that discrepancy.

> 2696128169788667;5:
> > 2533274816788253;2:
> > Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key.
> >
> > warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone.
>
> So I’m getting really tired of the “warzone is supposed to be chaos” response.
>
> And you contradict yourself clearly in saying that as I quoted you above.
>
> Warzone is the “biggest gametype in Halo history”. Big game types require strategy - capturing points, targeting bosses, etc. And - Yes, that requires teamwork.
>
> So if it’s supposed to be chaos, that means disorganization and madness. Which it certainly is. If we all want chaos, why even have objective points? Take away control points then. Just have two home bases, everyone meets in the middle with bosses and nukes each other. There, that’s your chaos then.
>
> But that isn’t how Warzone is designed. So, how are you supposed to strategize chaos? Especially when the issues I highlighted contribute to that discrepancy.

You are looking way to into it. yes warzone is supposed to be chaotic… how do you strategize that? the same way you strategize any war. you organize you team, assign players certain jobs and coordinate your attacks/defenses.

Urban… I hate that map. If the other side caps it and has decent snipers… the game is over.
And yeah reg warzone is not for random.
Like you OP reg warzone was my favorite game type in halo 5.
But garnering isn’t as bad as it once was. But it’s still teams of players that know exactly what to do. And if your on random team well… we toast

> 2533274816788253;2:
> <mark>There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming”</mark> and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.

Limiting the fireteam sizes to 6 would go a long way to doing that.

Just because it may not happen often, it happening at all IS an issue and it DOES drive the playerbase away. Party matching would help but I’m not totally sure how many full teams of 12 regularly run Warzone.

> The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.

Sure, some of the boss stuff is fine. As much as I love the Grunt Jockeys (seriously I do. Best trash talkers in Halo ever.), I liked when you could shoot their noses off and get a kill with a binary vs the much more bullet sponge versions we have now. Actually getting a headshot on them is difficult. Not to mention that a lot of the Warzone matches I’ve seen lately, people don’t even bother with the Jockeys or other really difficult bosses. Which renders the whole refresh moot if no one’s going for them.

Of course, there ARE people that go gung-ho for the bosses and that’s fine. I’m not against it and I usually try to help with boss takedowns when I can. But I’m not wasting my time/ammo on something that takes forever to kill when I could be going after the other team and actually getting points in the meantime.

> 2533274816788253;6:
> > 2696128169788667;5:
> > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key.
> > >
> > > warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone.
> >
> > So I’m getting really tired of the “warzone is supposed to be chaos” response.
> >
> > And you contradict yourself clearly in saying that as I quoted you above.
> >
> > Warzone is the “biggest gametype in Halo history”. Big game types require strategy - capturing points, targeting bosses, etc. And - Yes, that requires teamwork.
> >
> > So if it’s supposed to be chaos, that means disorganization and madness. Which it certainly is. If we all want chaos, why even have objective points? Take away control points then. Just have two home bases, everyone meets in the middle with bosses and nukes each other. There, that’s your chaos then.
> >
> > But that isn’t how Warzone is designed. So, how are you supposed to strategize chaos? Especially when the issues I highlighted contribute to that discrepancy.
>
> You are looking way to into it. yes warzone is supposed to be chaotic… how do you strategize that? the same way you strategize any war. you organize you team, assign players certain jobs and coordinate your attacks/defenses.

So, Warzone, an allegedly “social” gametype, should be confined to full teams?

I’m not “looking way too into” anything. The gametype has had its issues and shortcomings, and Im trying to suggest simple fixes to better people’s experiences. Not sure what the issue with that is.

Some people like to play big game types without having to be committed to a full group of teammates.

> 2696128169788667;9:
> > 2533274816788253;6:
> > > 2696128169788667;5:
> > > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > > Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key.
> > > >
> > > > warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone.
> > >
> > > So I’m getting really tired of the “warzone is supposed to be chaos” response.
> > >
> > > And you contradict yourself clearly in saying that as I quoted you above.
> > >
> > > Warzone is the “biggest gametype in Halo history”. Big game types require strategy - capturing points, targeting bosses, etc. And - Yes, that requires teamwork.
> > >
> > > So if it’s supposed to be chaos, that means disorganization and madness. Which it certainly is. If we all want chaos, why even have objective points? Take away control points then. Just have two home bases, everyone meets in the middle with bosses and nukes each other. There, that’s your chaos then.
> > >
> > > But that isn’t how Warzone is designed. So, how are you supposed to strategize chaos? Especially when the issues I highlighted contribute to that discrepancy.
> >
> > You are looking way to into it. yes warzone is supposed to be chaotic… how do you strategize that? the same way you strategize any war. you organize you team, assign players certain jobs and coordinate your attacks/defenses.
>
> So, Warzone, an allegedly “social” gametype, should be confined to full teams?
>
> I’m not “looking way too into” anything. The gametype has had its issues and shortcomings, and Im trying to suggest simple fixes to better people’s experiences. Not sure what the issue with that is.
>
> Some people like to play big game types without having to be committed to a full group of teammates.

And people who do play in big teams shouldn’t be penalized either. what’s the whole point of making Spartan companies if then to limit team sizes to being so small? The only true solution would be have a warzone playlist that doesn’t allow teams at all or very small ones.

> 2533274796457055;8:
> > 2533274816788253;2:
> > There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
>
> Limiting the fireteam sizes to 6 would go a long way to doing that.
>
> Just because it may not happen often, it happening at all IS an issue and it DOES drive the playerbase away. Party matching would help but I’m not totally sure how many full teams of 12 regularly run Warzone.
>
>
>
>
> > The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.
>
> Sure, some of the boss stuff is fine. As much as I love the Grunt Jockeys (seriously I do. Best trash talkers in Halo ever.), I liked when you could shoot their noses off and get a kill with a binary vs the much more bullet sponge versions we have now. Actually getting a headshot on them is difficult. Not to mention that a lot of the Warzone matches I’ve seen lately, people don’t even bother with the Jockeys or other really difficult bosses. Which renders the whole refresh moot if no one’s going for them.
>
> Of course, there ARE people that go gung-ho for the bosses and that’s fine. I’m not against it and I usually try to help with boss takedowns when I can. But I’m not wasting my time/ammo on something that takes forever to kill when I could be going after the other team and actually getting points in the meantime.

“Farming” has always happened in Halo and long before warzone or even Achilles came around. people need a bit thicker skin when it comes to online gaming. one-sided beats happen. even a team full of random can potentially “farm” if they choose to.

> 2533274816788253;11:
> > 2533274796457055;8:
> > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
> >
> > Limiting the fireteam sizes to 6 would go a long way to doing that.
> >
> > Just because it may not happen often, it happening at all IS an issue and it DOES drive the playerbase away. Party matching would help but I’m not totally sure how many full teams of 12 regularly run Warzone.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.
> >
> > Sure, some of the boss stuff is fine. As much as I love the Grunt Jockeys (seriously I do. Best trash talkers in Halo ever.), I liked when you could shoot their noses off and get a kill with a binary vs the much more bullet sponge versions we have now. Actually getting a headshot on them is difficult. Not to mention that a lot of the Warzone matches I’ve seen lately, people don’t even bother with the Jockeys or other really difficult bosses. Which renders the whole refresh moot if no one’s going for them.
> >
> > Of course, there ARE people that go gung-ho for the bosses and that’s fine. I’m not against it and I usually try to help with boss takedowns when I can. But I’m not wasting my time/ammo on something that takes forever to kill when I could be going after the other team and actually getting points in the meantime.
>
> “Farming” has always happened in Halo and long before warzone or even Achilles came around. one-sided beats happen. even a team full of random can potentially “farm” if they choose to.

Ad hominem. We aren’t talking about other Halo games. I’m more than well aware that it happened in prior games, I’ve been on the receiving end across the spectrum.

That doesn’t diminish that it IS an issue in Warzone.

> people need a bit thicker skin when it comes to online gaming.

Really? Again, not the point at hand.

> 2533274796457055;12:
> > 2533274816788253;11:
> > > 2533274796457055;8:
> > > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > > There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
> > >
> > > Limiting the fireteam sizes to 6 would go a long way to doing that.
> > >
> > > Just because it may not happen often, it happening at all IS an issue and it DOES drive the playerbase away. Party matching would help but I’m not totally sure how many full teams of 12 regularly run Warzone.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.
> > >
> > > Sure, some of the boss stuff is fine. As much as I love the Grunt Jockeys (seriously I do. Best trash talkers in Halo ever.), I liked when you could shoot their noses off and get a kill with a binary vs the much more bullet sponge versions we have now. Actually getting a headshot on them is difficult. Not to mention that a lot of the Warzone matches I’ve seen lately, people don’t even bother with the Jockeys or other really difficult bosses. Which renders the whole refresh moot if no one’s going for them.
> > >
> > > Of course, there ARE people that go gung-ho for the bosses and that’s fine. I’m not against it and I usually try to help with boss takedowns when I can. But I’m not wasting my time/ammo on something that takes forever to kill when I could be going after the other team and actually getting points in the meantime.
> >
> > “Farming” has always happened in Halo and long before warzone or even Achilles came around. one-sided beats happen. even a team full of random can potentially “farm” if they choose to.
>
> Ad hominem. We aren’t talking about other Halo games. I’m more than well aware that it happened in prior games, I’ve been on the receiving end across the spectrum.
>
> That doesn’t diminish that it IS an issue in Warzone.
>
>
>
>
> > people need a bit thicker skin when it comes to online gaming.
>
> Really? Again, not the point at hand.

And I disagree with it being an issue in warzone. it rarely happens to me in warzone and I solo play all the time. also yes players need thicker skin in online gaming as we even see it here quite often, they have a bad game and come here and rage about it. it’s online gaming it’s not a perfect science. there isn’t going to be a magic program that perfectly balances every game. when it comes to warzone there are so many factors to consider it’s impossible to make very game a perfect match up.

> 2533274816788253;2:
> There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
>
> The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.

I don’t know about now, but my friends and I had to stop playing Warzone because every other game turnes to farming. So yeah it does happen as often as some claim.

> 2533274816788253;13:
> And I disagree with it being an issue in warzone. it rarely happens to me in warzone and I solo play all the time.

“It doesn’t happen to me so it’s not an issue!”

But OP says it happens to him and that it IS an issue. Which is it?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

> also yes players need thicker skin in online gaming as we even see it here quite often, they have a bad game and come here and rage about it. it’s online gaming it’s not a perfect science. there isn’t going to be a magic program that perfectly balances every game. when it comes to warzone there are so many factors to consider it’s impossible to make very game a perfect match up.

Generally speaking, your’e right - there will never be total satisfaction across the board. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t room for improvement in the current system.

Oh and telling people to get thicker skin doesn’t do anything to help your argument. You’re just deflecting and diminishing other people’s experiences and opinions and brushing them aside because they don’t meet up to your arbitrary standards of “thick skin.”

> 2535449665894532;14:
> > 2533274816788253;2:
> > There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
> >
> > The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.
>
> I don’t know about now, but my friends and I had to stop playing Warzone because every other game turnes to farming. So yeah it does happen as often as some claim.

I guess I have better luck with match making then.

> 2533274816788253;16:
> > 2535449665894532;14:
> > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
> > >
> > > The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.
> >
> > I don’t know about now, but my friends and I had to stop playing Warzone because every other game turnes to farming. So yeah it does happen as often as some claim.
>
> I guess I have better luck with match making then.

Check my history for the night. Had two farming matches thrust upon me via JIP. Like it or not it is still a thing.

> 2533274796457055;15:
> > 2533274816788253;13:
> > And I disagree with it being an issue in warzone. it rarely happens to me in warzone and I solo play all the time.
>
> “It doesn’t happen to me so it’s not an issue!”
>
> But OP says it happens to him and that it IS an issue. Which is it?
>
> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
>
>
>
>
> > also yes players need thicker skin in online gaming as we even see it here quite often, they have a bad game and come here and rage about it. it’s online gaming it’s not a perfect science. there isn’t going to be a magic program that perfectly balances every game. when it comes to warzone there are so many factors to consider it’s impossible to make very game a perfect match up.
>
> Generally speaking, your’e right - there will never be total satisfaction across the board. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t room for improvement in the current system.
>
> Oh and telling people to get thicker skin doesn’t do anything to help your argument. You’re just deflecting and diminishing other people’s experiences and opinions and brushing them aside because they don’t meet up to your arbitrary standards of “thick skin.”

I guess I have better luck with match making… also it maybe a bit “harsh” to say they need thicker skin but it’s the truth. online gaming will never be a perfect science, especially with a game mode that is pretty complex like warzone. some seem to claim “farmed” when it was just a bad beat.

> 2533274880633045;17:
> > 2533274816788253;16:
> > > 2535449665894532;14:
> > > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > > There isn’t much that can be done to prevent “farming” and it doesn’t happen near as often as most like to claim. Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key. also that would really slow down match making and cause a lot of repeated match ups.
> > > >
> > > > The boss refresh was awesome… They almost need another one. warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone. bosses shouldn’t be so predictable that players just camp their spawn points and immediately get the kill.
> > >
> > > I don’t know about now, but my friends and I had to stop playing Warzone because every other game turnes to farming. So yeah it does happen as often as some claim.
> >
> > I guess I have better luck with match making then.
>
> Check my history for the night. Had two farming matches thrust upon me via JIP. Like it or not it is still a thing.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a thing… I just said it doesn’t happen near as often as most claim. it’s maybe one in ten games, if that for me.

> 2696128169788667;1:
> Solution? - Either create a “squad” and “social” Warzone playlist, or limit Warzone groups to 4 people teams at all or very small ones.

> 2533274816788253;10:
> > 2696128169788667;9:
> > > 2533274816788253;6:
> > > > 2696128169788667;5:
> > > > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > > > Yeah they could try and limit parties but that defeats the purpose of warzone in a way because team work is key.
> > > > >
> > > > > warzone is supposed to be chaotic. it’s WARzone.
> > > >
> > > > So I’m getting really tired of the “warzone is supposed to be chaos” response.
> > > >
> > > > And you contradict yourself clearly in saying that as I quoted you above.
> > > >
> > > > Warzone is the “biggest gametype in Halo history”. Big game types require strategy - capturing points, targeting bosses, etc. And - Yes, that requires teamwork.
> > > >
> > > > So if it’s supposed to be chaos, that means disorganization and madness. Which it certainly is. If we all want chaos, why even have objective points? Take away control points then. Just have two home bases, everyone meets in the middle with bosses and nukes each other. There, that’s your chaos then.
> > > >
> > > > But that isn’t how Warzone is designed. So, how are you supposed to strategize chaos? Especially when the issues I highlighted contribute to that discrepancy.
>
> And people who do play in big teams shouldn’t be penalized either. what’s the whole point of making Spartan companies if then to limit team sizes to being so small? The only true solution would be have a warzone playlist that doesn’t allow teams at all or very small ones.

Maybe read my whole post before commenting next time?