When we get an armor toggle this is how it should work

Games Halo Infinite
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21

I don’t get it. How would that work? Let’s say I wear Rakshasa and people toggle that off, they see me as randomly my Mark VII or Mark V(b)? But if I have a flaming effect on that Mark VII or Mark V(b) and people hate that,. they don’t see it?

Or should we now make a Spartan for option 1, 2, 3 and 4, so we make our prefered Spartan for all options? That later version seems better. I think people will still want to influence how other people see their Spartan, even though it’s not their own first choice.

Still, this would be complex. Also because people most likely wouldn’t buy an armor effect if they know 95% of other players turn that off. So 343 probably wouldn’t do that.

This system also needs some sort of protection. So if a person select cat ears on their own spartan, they don’t have the ability to turn it off on other people. Seems only fair to me.

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22

This is correct. MCC does it this way i believe so its only logical that when we get a toggle for Infinite it will work this way.

23

I am sure you can already see the vast difference in people who want it vs people who don’t based on my poll and this difference will only grow with more votes.

For those of you who want the armor to stick around for more than 1 or 2 games you better be advocating for the toggle honestly. I can almost guarantee there were more people who liked the H4 and 5 art style and that got reverted back so i am sure we will either get a toggle or in a couple of games some of these cosmetics will no longer be around.

24

One key thing: those games have it because they were paid games. Here the cosmetics are central to its F2P monetisation.
I don’t think 343i would implement something that might hurt sales aka “some players might not see my cosmetic I grinded/paid for”.

Even when I suggest disabling armor effects for accessibility reason I don’t know if they would do it because they probably want us to see “prestigious” items. Same reason why we can’t move our death camera; it is designed to track your killer so you can see their spartan.

25

I dont think we should get one.
This isnt some legacy title where the arguement of preservation can be used.
Its a new game for a new period.
You should only be able to dictate hkw you are seen nkt hkw others are.

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26

@Modod what you are saying doesn’t apply to video games. This is not some freedom of expression issue because everyone playing the game has agreed to be here. Upon agreeing people knew what to expect and my party analogy is a great real life equivalent. Maybe a better one though is a fancy restaurant with a dress code. Everyone else paid to be here and expects everyone to be dressed a certain way. Just because the manager says its okay doesn’t mean it won’t be distracting when somone in a mascot costume shows up to eat. It takes away from the experience.

If they wanted true complete freedom of expression they would allow modders to make whatever they wanted to no matter what it looked like but they don’t. They know there is a limit and the fans know. It seems the vast majority would say they over stepped but instead of kicking people out of the party we have requested to just not see it. It is that simple.

I get it is a new game for a new period. But at the same time Halo is something. If they want to change Halo so much (which we already know 343 has or at least had a disdain for the Halo Bungie made) then they will lose more players than they gain by adding some of these armors that don’t fit. This is not some new IP or a complete reboot of a franchise so acting like these armors totally make sense is just being willfully ignorant at best and extremely spiteful at worst towards people’s desires to have the art style and tone preserved.

If you don’t care that the Halo art direction be preserved then were does it stop? At some point if we continue down this road Halo will be unrecognizable and a toggle would allow people to enjoy this stuff that doesn’t fit while also preserving the game. It is really a question of do you want Halo to stay Halo or have the franchise mutate into something it wasn’t?

27

Except you have erroneous logic in your assertion.

Everyone agreed to what? Exactly?
If I agreed to be part of halos community with 4 or 5 id expect to see things like that.
If i agreed to play after the prelaunch leaks with the snowman suit then ive agreed to see that.
If i agreed to play after any of the yoroi or other fracture event well then thats what I agreed to see.
If players want to rock a hologram mohawk and a teddy bear on their chest I have no good reason to deny them to be seen as they wish to be seen.

This ENTIRE thing is based in expression and it most certainly applies to video games especially when the entire ecosystem of said video game is predicated on a store that monetises said expression.
To argue otherwise is quite simply an asanine stance.

Because this is not a legacy title that has been sunset and they obviously dont want to undermine their core revenue stream. This is not a strong arguement for your case. Honestly I suspect this is bait and im the fool to bite on it.

Ya halo is lots of things to many people and has literally never been consistent with its art direction or tone. Thats actually a strength of the franchise, it casts a wide net.
Bungie had zero respect for continuity if you are honest about it.
Everything from narrative to visual tone was up for upheaval with each iteration of the series.
Deny that if you wish but its quite simply true.
Did 343i go a step further, yes, but on a trajectory set by Bungie.

No its willfully ignorant to suggest armours need to make sense or ever have in the series.
Wever had ninjas, skulls, marathon security officers, fart clouds, CQB, scout all totally out of place until they got grandfathered in.
The fact is you are being spiteful to new fans and legacy fans alike that like some of the less classic cosmetics and wish to stop them from being seen, literally, despite some making financial investments for them to be represented in that fashion in game. The social mp game about playing with others online.
Not a title tailored to your tastes or idea of this now multiera franchise specifically.

Halo is already unrecognisable in every way, yet the iconography has endured and is still very much represented.
The fact is much of the silly suits are at home in the art style but nostalgia blinds some from being able to recognise that.
And while other cores arefurther from the established visual identity than others thats not some biblical disaster lile you attest.
The series will be interpreted long after you and i are dead pal.
Its identity will always remain but naturally it will never static nor has it ever been.
Letting players have different styles in the mp setting is not nearly as impactful as a complete rejection of the franchises founding gameplay philosophy with has been absent for 4 major FPS stand alone titles now so perhaps put your efforts towards maintaining the core of the franchise.
These MP only cosmetics are just that and are not a threat to halos identity because as stated quite alot of them while not lore accurate do i fact retain the art direction of Halo Infinite.

Precisely why the art direction takes so much from halo reach and halo 3 with elements of 4 for many each game is the quintessential art style of halo and for many they are abominations, unfaithful to CE.
Stop speaking as an authority on how everyone feels pal.
If the vast majority have voted with their wallets these cosmetics wouldnt be an issue for you because they would not be seen in game and wouldnt be making 343i enough cash to continue making more.
But if the reverse is true, then geuss what a sizable portion of the halo community disagrees with you and want these things they purchased to be seen just as much as you do your vanilla mkVb or odst or mkv or silly ninja giaden cosplay or what have you.

You are gate keeping but you tied your shoelaces together before locking said gate.
We ask you to stop. And support others in the community not tear them down.
Thank you and happy headshots to all!
Not all spartans wear capes, but they are all entitled to do so.

28

The votes are pretty close to a tie. In all honesty, this poll would need to reach at least 1K votes before anyone could brag about the results going one way or the other.

I voted 4 btw. Not because I hate seeing them, but because they cause performance issues.

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29

People act like Gatekeeping is a bad thing all the time. Gatekeeping stops the hordes of enemies from destroying your castle. 343 blew open the gate and the walls with 4 and 5. You know what happened. People left because Halo was no longer what they enjoyed. If you want to drive fans out so you can appeal to what is the vast minority of players then they have every right to do so. But us fans who want a cohesive direction don’t have to take it lying down. (say what you want but Bungie was pretty dang consistent especially compared to 343 at this point. If anything Bungie moved towards a more realistic art design and not further from it as a whole.)

Not everything should be for everyone. Its a fact that nothing can appeal to litterally everyone because someone will find some reason they won’t like it. So what should happen? They can either cater to the customers who litterally built and sustained the franchise or tell us to screw off and then watch as we do.

I already said i get why 343 has no financial reason (unless they are losing money on certain items which we would have no idea, and if they are losing money then say see it as more of a cost to make a statement then an actual investment designed to make money) to do this. But from a player standpoint the only reason to not want a toggle is to knowingly break the immersion and part of why people fell in love with Halo in the first place.

If a majority of people loved the stuff such as cat ears i would see it every game. I basically only see it maybe at most every 10 to 20 games because a minority bought it. This is the issue. Do you hurt everyone else’s experience by making them see stuff that doesn’t fit and they would rather not see or give people the option to turn it off?

Again you never answered me on how far does it go? Will we be getting mickey mouse colabs, star wars? What else, tails on spartans, fur coats? Its not really gatekeeping anyway to say you want consistency, its just keeping the floodgates closed so the whole town doesn’t get wiped out.

30

No one gives a damn about a handful of people when the number of people that play the game is significantly more though. You’ll need to get a much larger sample size if you want anyone meaningful to notice.

Just look at petitions for example. The one to remove Amber Herd from Aquaman 2 had to hit like several million to seeming get noticed by WB, and even then it’s unclear if they’ll go through with it. She only has like 8 to 10 minutes even in the movie to begin with.

31

It would be INSANELY stupid. Only purists want a toggle like this and - really, purists of any kind should not be served anywhere.

32

Ah yes the nothing is sacred nor should it be argument. This is the sentiment that will make Halo unrecognizable and thus not be Halo anymore.

Things have meaning. Halo meant something but people who hated that meaning and want to see it corrupted did not actually like Halo, they just liked the idea of Halo and are willing to see it radically changed.

You don’t radically change something you loved. If you loved it then you would be okay with how it is. Not saying any progress can’t happen but it needs to stay on track and not go off just for a few people at the expense of immersion for others when historically the old art style is what brought most people to Halo.

If i am not mistaken you have already said you would like to see colabs with other game series and bring over their armors such as the Doom armor which is just crazy. There is no limit to what the anti toggle people would allow into Halo.

33

I don’t think your lore arguments hold up if you’re trying to tell me that kill effects and whatnot are categorised for lore. They’ve been categorised, collectively for a reason. Not just for lore because there are tons of other manufacturers besides from 343 Industries & Fotus.

There’s an obvious distinction.

You’re right. 343 have a long way to go in making their game better. But, making it known that a toggle is wanted is as much the point as eventually getting one.

2 Likes
34

FYI what you describe here is exactly what you bemoan in infinite.
Reach alienated some due to it teying to chase that post MW modern military fad that had become ubiquitous in the industry.
In both its gameplay philosophy being routed more in competition over chaotic fun and its very different art style that shared little with CE in narrative continuity or halo 3 in visual continuity.
Retaining the iconography that again, is enduring and made every titled to date in the franchise identifiable as a halo game.
And each being THE truest depiction of the series with differing sub sets of the community.
If you want to toggle off an option for others to be seen it would only be fair you are also just a generic random spartan and not seen in your own custom look.

35

There are so many people who hop on here to say that 343 could never do this because it would lose them money (since people won’t buy cosmetics if they don’t get to show them to literally everyone in the game.)

But doesn’t the cosmetic mtx industry rely on compulsive buying? The industry is based on tactics used by casinos on gamblers. Even worse, they’ve taken these tactics and turned them on children (as well as adults, of course.)

I would posit that those who are prone to compulsively buying cosmetics are not going to stop buying stuff and boycott the game if the toggle gets added. They may say so now, but if a toggle gets added and the week after they see something new that they want, they will buy it.

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36

Reach only alienated fans through gameplay. No more dual wielding, a busted OP DMR, psuedo classes and armor abilities, no more customizable elites. I have never heard anyone say the Art style was not good or close enough to CE-3.

Narratively they did retcon the books but nothing in the games as far as i am aware. Even in Halo 3 Cortana talks about getting to choose her spartan and she chose John for his luck. Other soliders even say “They sent us a Spartan!?” (H4 had massive retcons here with the Forerunners being different than the hints to them showed and now Chief was just some thing made in a Petrie dish by the Forerunners along with the bad shift to the H4 art style). The game ties into CE showing why the Covenant followed the Pillar of Autumn and why the Pillar of Autumn was running. Reach had just been lost. Sure Reach had a slightly more realistic take on the armors than 3 had had but they were all still very close. Plus you weren’t Spartan II’s anymore so it made sense the armors were smaller.

It seems you are trying to make the Bungie Era games seem like they are way further apart than they really are just to help your side. There is a reason that 85+% of the armors in Infinite actually call back to the Bungie era and resemble those games art style and tone. Its because that is the art style and tone Halo was built upon.

I again implore you to join the toggle side because i can almost guarantee just like the H4 and H5 style the Halo community overall has not reacted positively to the “cute” stuff. Its goofy in a way that doesn’t fit Halo. I would bet if a toggle isn’t added, in 2 games at most, we will not see armor pieces like the car ears again or Halo is dead because they won’t cater to the broader Halo audience that didn’t buy and doesn’t want to see stuff like that.

Halo has been through a lot with sales and player count dropping since Reach because Halo lost its identity in many ways. Infinite skyrocketed with players at launch partly because of the promise of a return to form for the series in both art style and gameplay and yes partly because it was FTP. It has of course dropped off due to many failed promises and issues with the FTP model now though. There have been quite a few threads detailing that people want a toggle so it is definitely something people want.

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37

Like the time they were not served in Halo 5. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the game grounded to the tone and gameplay that made Halo great in the first place.

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38

I’m confused.

I can see the ways in which Reach was trying to emulate the mp success of COD in terms of mechanics (the classes, loadouts, etc.)

But in what way does Reach’s art style share little with CE and Halo 3? Halo Reach is still my favorite aesthetic of every Halo game. After Halo 2 and 3 had escalated the stakes and made a giant space opera, Reach was much closer to Halo CE by leaning into the military science fiction aspects and telling a story at a somewhat smaller scale than 2/3. From my perspective, Reach was an amazing extension of the original art style, and the canon/lore based armors in Infinite are a proper successor to that style.

As for the idea that to make a toggle fair, it would have to make the player a generic spartan… what? Like “because you are able to control the way things look in a game in your own home, you shouldn’t be able to control the way YOU look in a game in your own home.”

The idea that other people being able to change the appearance of cosmetics in their game somehow hurts you is just preposterous to me. Do you remember when everyone was just red or blue in the games?

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39

If you love something, you allow it to change too.

We got our more traditional Halo experience while not alienating Halo 5 fans, with Infinite.

40

2 thoughts here:

  1. Halo is not a sentient being so it can’t change on its own. Halo is not itself changing of its own volition but having changes thrust upon it.

  2. No not always. Sometimes you don’t let things change, at least not wholly accept the changes because they are detrimental to whatever or whomever is changing. Change is not always good and some change is bad.

No one is saying delete the items some people have bought. What we are saying is give us an avenue to keep playing the series the way we want to.