This is an honest question. Anyone who doesn’t like it should answer. I don’t get it. I mean, I know it looks like ADS and none of us really asked for that, but the mechanic is the same as it was in ever other Halo game (except H4) with the descope and everything. I’ve played the beta enough to know it doesn’t change the feel of scoping. The only other point is that every weapon has it, which I was looking forward to. If that makes it a problem, I don’t know how. There was nothing gamebreaking about it. Anyway, just let me know, I like hearing new points of view. For example I used to be on the far left of the sprint debate but now I’m not only open to the idea, but hoping for a future Halo without sprint. Anyway, what’s wrong with smart scope? It feels like one of the only real innovations to me (not in its animation but that every gun has it).
I like it a lot. You can see your blind sides now.
For one it is a complete downgrade in terms of player visibility, what was once a clean, relatively unobstructed view now has a great big weapon stuck in front of it. Its slower to activate, something that became painfully obvious when I switched between playing the older games, especially when sniping. I found myself being restricted because I had to wait for the game to catch up to my actions.
Its simply a clunkier experience, especially with descope back. Applying smart scope across the board erodes some of the diversity I have come to expect from a Halo sandbox. They took what was originally a weapon trait and a balancing tool and simply applied it across the board. An AR with a scope? We have not seen that before, but it completely loses its luster when you realize that the SMG has one as well and they are back to being functional clones. Moreover so many of these weapons simply don’t(or in some cases shouldn’t) need any zoom to function with their niche. Things like an SMG, shotgun, sword should be great without needing a ‘zoom’, if you see an enemy at range where you would need a zoom, you should not be using those weapons in that scenario in the first place.
I also have issues with the accuracy bonuses for weapons like the AR. Zooming in previous games simply shrunk the reticle slightly, smart scope appears to totally change the spread patterns in some cases or remove spread entirely. Rewarding zoomed fire in that way is the same thing as punishing hipfire and is something that should never happen in Halo.
And on top of all of this it actually makes less sense when it comes to my understanding of the lore. The whole point of ‘smart-link’ scopes in past games is that they allowed you to link directly to the scope with out have to bring the weapon up to your face. If you want to consider it a new feature for Mjolnir then it would really only benefit weapons that don’t have a real scope like the AR. Weapons like the DMR, sniper, rockets, laser, some pistol variants should still be using traditional zoom. In the ARs case, if you don’t need any sort of site to ‘smart scope’, why would you need to then look down the little reflex sight on weapons like the SMG or BR?
The whole mechanic is ill-conceived and wholly unnecessary. One of the worst examples of pandering to a completely different audience at the expense of gameplay. At this point it is the main thing keeping me from buying Halo 5. Every time the fan inside me tries to give it a pass, that same fan reminds me “They added ADS to Halo”. It may not be ‘ADS’ exactly as seen in other games, but that doesn’t change the fact that its ADS.
> 2533274903318108;2:
> I like it a lot. You can see your blind sides now.
You could always do that. Parts of your screen were darker when zoomed in but you could still see
The big problem is that it’s on auto weapons.
> 2533274819446242;3:
> For one it is a complete downgrade in terms of player visibility, what was once a clean, relatively unobstructed view now has a great big weapon stuck in front of it. Its slower to activate, something that became painfully obvious when I switched between playing the older games, especially when sniping. I found myself being restricted because I had to wait for the game to catch up to my actions.
>
> Its simply a clunkier experience, especially with descope back. Applying smart scope across the board erodes some of the diversity I have come to expect from a Halo sandbox. They took what was originally a weapon trait and a balancing tool and simply applied it across the board. An AR with a scope? We have not seen that before, but it completely loses its luster when you realize that the SMG has one as well and they are back to being functional clones. Moreover so many of these weapons simply don’t(or in some cases shouldn’t) need any zoom to function with their niche. Things like an SMG, shotgun, sword should be great without needing a ‘zoom’, if you see an enemy at range where you would need a zoom, you should not be using those weapons in that scenario in the first place.
>
> I also have issues with the accuracy bonuses for weapons like the AR. Zooming in previous games simply shrunk the reticle slightly, smart scope appears to totally change the spread patterns in some cases or remove spread entirely. Rewarding zoomed fire in that way is the same thing as punishing hipfire and is something that should never happen in Halo.
>
> And on top of all of this it actually makes less sense when it comes to my understanding of the lore. The whole point of ‘smart-link’ scopes in past games is that they allowed you to link directly to the scope with out have to bring the weapon up to your face. If you want to consider it a new feature for Mjolnir then it would really only benefit weapons that don’t have a real scope like the AR. Weapons like the DMR, sniper, rockets, laser, some pistol variants should still be using traditional zoom. In the ARs case, if you don’t need any sort of site to ‘smart scope’, why would you need to then look down the little reflex sight on weapons like the SMG or BR?
>
> The whole mechanic is ill-conceived and wholly unnecessary. One of the worst examples of pandering to a completely different audience at the expense of gameplay. At this point it is the main thing keeping me from buying Halo 5. Every time the fan inside me tries to give it a pass, that same fan reminds me “They added ADS to Halo”. It may not be ‘ADS’ exactly as seen in other games, but that doesn’t change the fact that its ADS.
Good point about visibility (d*mn there’s a lit of "i"s in that word). If it’s slower, I haven’t noticed, but they did say something about fixing that. We’ll see how that is in the final game.
But to your main point. I get that it was a balancing tool in previous Halo games, but I think the same can be said for Halo 5. Let me explain. Look at Halo 4. Precision weapons dominated Halo 4 like never before in any other Halo game. Part of this was due to bullet magnetism, but I think more of it was because lines of sight were very long in that game in general. Haven, the smallest map, was still more suited for the BR than any other gun and this is fact. This is why we saw AR buffs like no other in Halo 4. Halo 5 suffers from the same problem. This ends up nerfing the advantage gained from the AR/SMG smart link.
I agree with the spread problem, although that isn’t directly linked to smart link. I mean, that could be changed separately. And I care more about gameplay than lore when it comes to gameplay.
But I get what you’re saying, this is just me and my opinion now. You have answered my question
Visually my problem with it is it blocks player view and creates blind spots. If SS all looked like the light rifles SS then no problem.
Gameplay wize it renders fights involving autos to who can zoom in the fastest as well as increased range on autos disrupting the weapon balance. Its also slow to activate.
In regards to lore it makes no sence at all.
WerepyreND put it well in regards how I kind of feel about SS.
I’d just like to add how utterly ridiculous I think it is to have ADS/SS on the sword, it’s… beyond comprehension for me. Also seeing as all weapons apparently got a tighter spread while ADSing/SSing, am I to assume the same will apply to the shotgun?
Another aspect I might be alone about or in a minority. I dislike how it by default is so that you have to hold the left trigger in order to zoom. Descoping becomes next to redundant as you’ll automatically zoom back in because you just hold the trigger. In my opinion you should not automatocally be zoomed in, a release and pull and the trigger should be required.
I’m just going to leave a “I agree with WerepyreND”.
And there, at the very least, needs to a toggle for every player, Classic, and “Smart”-Scope.
Also, it’s notable to mention that the lore reasoning is actually highly relevant in the matter, since 343 seems obsessed with making everything canonical:
Spartan ops instead of Firefight,
War games instead of just plain “multiplayer”
and the fact that H5:G’s multiplayer seems to be going for that “Gladiator/sports game” theme, there is even an official concept art of a spartan with numbers and markings like a sports player.
WerepyreND said it well. As far as I can tell, Smart Scope is nothing but a hindrance to the game. After all, we did have a very functional scoping system that didn’t obstruct half of the screen. I don’t think it makes the case of ADS any better that we were promised it would be only cosmetic, but we now know that it also gives an accuracy bonus.
I’d like to point out that the Smart scope “Hip fire vs. Smart scope” video was not 100% accurate…
He was standing directly in front of the wall. There is a large decrease in spread from Smart scoping nonetheless, but I’d like to think I still haven’t been given an accurate idea of bullet spread at long distances in Halo 5. Bullets spread the most as they travel away from the barrel, after all… It could still be a lot less drastic than we think.
> 2533274819446242;3:
> For one it is a complete downgrade in terms of player visibility, what was once a clean, relatively unobstructed view now has a great big weapon stuck in front of it. Its slower to activate, something that became painfully obvious when I switched between playing the older games, especially when sniping. I found myself being restricted because I had to wait for the game to catch up to my actions.
How is it any more obstructive than the darkened area around the traditional games’ zoom? How much do the sights affect your awareness here or here? I find that it allows for better peripheral vision without getting in the way when aiming; DMR’s smart scope positioning in the beta was an exception, but we’ve been told that it has been/will be modified to address that along with the Sniper Rifle’s zoom speed. If viewing the weapon you’re using is obstructive when zoomed, why is it acceptable when you aren’t zoomed? After all, we’ve got the HUD to tell us what weapon we have equipped/how much ammo we have and you can see through it just as you can see through the darkened portions of “old school” zoom, right?
> Its simply a clunkier experience, especially with descope back. Applying smart scope across the board erodes some of the diversity I have come to expect from a Halo sandbox. They took what was originally a weapon trait and a balancing tool and simply applied it across the board. An AR with a scope? We have not seen that before, but it completely loses its luster when you realize that the SMG has one as well and they are back to being functional clones. Moreover so many of these weapons simply don’t(or in some cases shouldn’t) need any zoom to function with their niche. Things like an SMG, shotgun, sword should be great without needing a ‘zoom’, if you see an enemy at range where you would need a zoom, you should not be using those weapons in that scenario in the first place.
What about the “smart scope experience” was clunky?
How does smart scope erode diversity when we’ve seen many of the staples of the Halo sandbox AND weapons like the Hydra, Light Rifle, and “legendary” remixes of existing weapons? I find being unable to zoom and shoot with some weapons to be an unnecessary balancing tool when weapons can instead be given different zoom magnification, red-reticle-range, and spread to achieve the same end result in a more intuitive way. Allowing weapons to zoom also offers more possibilities for various effects, such as the Light Rifle’s dual firing mode and the different kill-times of each. Just a thought: perhaps the Needler will require being scoped to activate the homing projectiles? I’m curious about how the Covenant weapons’ zooms will be implemented.
If you are using a weapon that you shouldn’t be using in that scenario, then your opponent who is using a weapon better-suited for that scenario will best you (unless he/she is of notably less skill than you).
> I also have issues with the accuracy bonuses for weapons like the AR. Zooming in previous games simply shrunk the reticle slightly, smart scope appears to totally change the spread patterns in some cases or remove spread entirely. Rewarding zoomed fire in that way is the same thing as punishing hipfire and is something that should never happen in Halo.
If rewarding zoomed fire (which is punishing hip-fire) should never happen in Halo, then every Halo title to date has had something they shouldn’t have: red-reticle-range increases when zoomed.
> And on top of all of this it actually makes less sense when it comes to my understanding of the lore. The whole point of ‘smart-link’ scopes in past games is that they allowed you to link directly to the scope with out have to bring the weapon up to your face. If you want to consider it a new feature for Mjolnir then it would really only benefit weapons that don’t have a real scope like the AR. Weapons like the DMR, sniper, rockets, laser, some pistol variants should still be using traditional zoom. In the ARs case, if you don’t need any sort of site to ‘smart scope’, why would you need to then look down the little reflex sight on weapons like the SMG or BR?
I don’t really feel like bringing lore into the debate to justify an opinion on game design is appropriate. After all, it was certainly looked down upon when people did this to defend sprint as a gameplay mechanic. As for not needing a sight to zoom with the AR, I’d say it was largely a design decision to preserve its iconic look (although I wouldn’t see a problem with a slanted flip-up sight like the SMG’s on the side to better fit the AR into the fold).
> The whole mechanic is ill-conceived and wholly unnecessary. One of the worst examples of pandering to a completely different audience at the expense of gameplay. At this point it is the main thing keeping me from buying Halo 5. Every time the fan inside me tries to give it a pass, that same fan reminds me “They added ADS to Halo”. It may not be ‘ADS’ exactly as seen in other games, but that doesn’t change the fact that its ADS.
At a cosmetic level, sure it “panders” to the vast majority of FPS players’ expectations. At a gameplay level, however, it retains the aspects of the traditional implementation. Isn’t it a bit absurd that “the main thing keeping [you] from buying Halo 5” is that you can see portions of your weapon while zoomed and are more accurate when doing so? It may not be ‘zoom’ exactly as seen in other Halo games, but that doesn’t change the fact that its zoom.
I prefer Smart Scope to Zoom on a artistic level.
As for how it’s been implemented; the scope-in animation needs to be faster and it needs to be tailored and rebalanced for certain weapons.
Well smart scope is for smarty cookies and the ones that one become one, or JUST cause it is fun ! (:
Basically, the only difference is slight aesthetics but that’s enough for the Halo original posse who think that Halo belongs to them to cry and moan because a new game isn’t identical to a decade old one.
For me the biggest problem was that 343 told us it made no difference to shoot automatic weapons with ADS, (Cause that’s what it is) or to fire them from the hip. That was a huge lie, ADS made the ar and smg so accurate they were almost better to use than the BR in every area other than long range. Maybe I noticed it so much at the mid range because strafing in Halo 5 was non existent in the beta, but that’s another argument. The point is that it’s just another gimmick to make new players feel familiar with the game because it’s in every other fps out there, just like clamber, sprint, and thruster. I could care less if it’s in but why did they lie about its accuracy from using ADS and hip firing in the first place?
> 2535440283237581;12:
> How is it any more obstructive than the darkened area around the traditional games’ zoom? How much do the sights affect your awareness here or here? I find that it allows for better peripheral vision without getting in the way when aiming; DMR’s smart scope positioning in the beta was an exception, but we’ve been told that it has been/will be modified to address that along with the Sniper Rifle’s zoom speed. If viewing the weapon you’re using is obstructive when zoomed, why is it acceptable when you aren’t zoomed? After all, we’ve got the HUD to tell us what weapon we have equipped/how much ammo we have and you can see through it just as you can see through the darkened portions of “old school” zoom, right?
When zooming you lose some of your peripheral vision and as a result every bit visual real estate matters that much more. The less clutter when precision shooting the better, and it is especially important in a game like Halo where players move quickly(compared to some shooters) and have more health.
> What about the “smart scope experience” was clunky?
>
> How does smart scope erode diversity when we’ve seen many of the staples of the Halo sandbox AND weapons like the Hydra, Light Rifle, and “legendary” remixes of existing weapons? I find being unable to zoom and shoot with some weapons to be an unnecessary balancing tool when weapons can instead be given different zoom magnification, red-reticle-range, and spread to achieve the same end result in a more intuitive way. Allowing weapons to zoom also offers more possibilities for various effects, such as the Light Rifle’s dual firing mode and the different kill-times of each. Just a thought: perhaps the Needler will require being scoped to activate the homing projectiles? I’m curious about how the Covenant weapons’ zooms will be implemented.
>
> If you are using a weapon that you shouldn’t be using in that scenario, then your opponent who is using a weapon better-suited for that scenario will best you (unless he/she is of notably less skill than you).
As I mentioned before smart scope is slow to activate making the whole experience feel clunky. Fixing the sniper doesn’t fix the rest of the sandbox. Ranged battles become far awkard due to the increased time it takes to fully zoom. I feel like I end up waiting for the game to catch up to what I actually do.
The example I used is that a scoped AR is an interesting addition to the sandbox, giving the SMG a scope takes away from that as well. We end up with two scoped close range automatics where as gving only one of them a scope would have given them at least slightly different roles within the sandbox. I care about having functional variety within the sandbox. None of the weapons you mentioned require the smart scope mechanic to be implemented. The LR for example worked just as well with a tradtional zoom(flinch aside). What possible advantage is there to forcing the needler to zoom to be able to lock on?
As for the last bit that is exactly why it doesn’t really add much to add a scope on an SMG for example. If you are at a range where you would need extra magnefication, then you should be using a pistol, BR, DMR, pretty much any ranged weapon. If we really want diversity within the sandbox that I would much rather see more secondary fire/functions added rather than just adding a blanket scoping mechanic to everything.
> If rewarding zoomed fire (which is punishing hip-fire) should never happen in Halo, then every Halo title to date has had something they shouldn’t have: red-reticle-range increases when zoomed.
I’m more concerned with spread patterns. Red-reticle-range is a feature because it is a console shooter and thus some degree of extra auto aim is required. I have issued with how the AR goes from have a Reach/Halo 4 style reticle to a Halo 3 style reticle with recoil instead of spread. If it functioned like the ODST SMG where it was simply a zoom with the same spread patter then I would have no issue.
> I don’t really feel like bringing lore into the debate to justify an opinion on game design is appropriate. After all, it was certainly looked down upon when people did this to defend sprint as a gameplay mechanic. As for not needing a sight to zoom with the AR, I’d say it was largely a design decision to preserve its iconic look (although I wouldn’t see a problem with a slanted flip-up sight like the SMG’s on the side to better fit the AR into the fold).
When some of the stated goals by the developers are #Immersion, ‘make the players feel like a spartan’, and “reinforce the connection between spartans and their weapons” it is absolutely relevant. The point about the AR was to highlight how inconsistent the whole thing is. Weapons with a site need to look down it, but apparently you don’t need any sort of aiming device to take advantage of ‘smart scope’ with the AR. It simply feels like it was tacked on rather than a natural part of gameplay or lore.
> At a cosmetic level, sure it “panders” to the vast majority of FPS players’ expectations. At a gameplay level, however, it retains the aspects of the traditional implementation. Isn’t it a bit absurd that “the main thing keeping [you] from buying Halo 5” is that you can see portions of your weapon while zoomed and are more accurate when doing so? It may not be ‘zoom’ exactly as seen in other Halo games, but that doesn’t change the fact that its zoom.
Principles matter. Go a few years and no one would have believed that anyone would add ADS to Halo. Of all the changes both Bungie or 343 could bring there were very few people who believed that would ever happen yet here we are. It may not be ADS exactly as implemented in other games, but that doesn’t mean it the intent is not the same. Its ADS ‘balanced’ with Halo mechanics.
And Smart Scope is by no means the only thing keeping me away from Halo 5, it is just the one I keep coming back to as there was nothing actually wrong with what we had before, it is just another instance of bringing Halo closer to what ‘everyone else’ is doing.
> 2533274886246836;1:
> This is an honest question. Anyone who doesn’t like it should answer. I don’t get it. I mean, I know it looks like ADS and none of us really asked for that, but the mechanic is the same as it was in ever other Halo game (except H4) with the descope and everything. I’ve played the beta enough to know it doesn’t change the feel of scoping. The only other point is that every weapon has it, which I was looking forward to. If that makes it a problem, I don’t know how. There was nothing gamebreaking about it. Anyway, just let me know, I like hearing new points of view. For example I used to be on the far left of the sprint debate but now I’m not only open to the idea, but hoping for a future Halo without sprint. Anyway, what’s wrong with smart scope? It feels like one of the only real innovations to me (not in its animation but that every gun has it).
The only problem I have with it is that weapons like the smg, ar, etc…should be hip-fire only. Also, we shouldn’t see the gun in our fov while scoped in.
I like how we don’t have to depress the thumbstick to scope in now. Your accuracy with aiming shouldn’t be dependent on the secondary function of a movement stick. And honestly, Bungie might have used the LT to aim had they thought of it first. I see this as just an evolution of fps’s in general.
My only problem with it is pandering.
I like it actually. I think they have to make changes to how it works with automatics (which they are) and visually simplify it a little. There are all those blue hologram things floating around the sights and they look bad. If they clean that up it could be amazing.