I’m seeing so many post# of people saying 343 should add back dual wielding and I’m just like why??? Its not THAT great a feature and there’s people losing there minds over it, and it was only in like 2 games and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that great in halo 3.
Dual wielding was kinda cool, sometimes fun, but never a winning strategy. I’m also surprised how many are really upset about it. Seems many got their hopes up despite how obviously unlikely it was for dual wielding to make a return.
> 2533274866989456;2:
> Dual wielding was kinda cool, sometimes fun, but never a winning strategy. I’m also surprised how many are really upset about it. Seems many got their hopes up despite how obviously unlikely it was for dual wielding to make a return.
Yeah and people are treating it like 343 are the ones who removed it when it was bungie who removed it first
There are two big problems with Dual Wield. The first is that only certain combos are even slightly viable, and those that are, like Plasma Rifle/Mauler or Plasma Pistol/Magnum, force a niche on you due to how unwieldy it becomes to switch to your other weapon and then go back and pick up the rest of your combo again.
The second is that weapon roles either get multiplied to the point that you have the “regular” version, and the “mini” version of the same weapon such as the AR vs SMG, BR vs Magnum, Shotgun vs Mauler; ora weapon role is taken and neutered to the point where it can’t stand on its own two feet, like the Plasma Rifle, or Needler.
The world is a better place when weapons have their clearly defined role in the sandbox, and can accomplish that role efficiently by themselves. The “dual wield version” of -insert weapon here- is not a unique role. It’s the same role as before, just weaker.
I’m more concerned with the lack of Elites. The community solved the issues of balancing them in multiplayer ages ago with a “screw canon, just shrink them to the right size instead of contorting their body” approach, and 10 years later 343i still won’t give it a try.
Halo is a lot of things to a lot of people.
The problem is that a small minority of people are getting disproportionately upset about some things being in / out of Infinite.
Dual wielding… playable elites… a shotgun… colour choices… movement mechanics…
Not saying you can’t / shouldn’t be disappointed. Or be able to express it as such. But it really annoys me when people go on a last straw / boycott the game / 343 hate me paranoia rant.
Put you big boy pants on and give Infinite a chance to breathe.
Oh, and a big HELL NO for dual wielding. It was a lot of fun but ultimately a VERY broken mechanic. There is a very good reason it was dropped… and why pretty much no other FPS shooter has taken it on.
Its almost like different parts of the community care about different aspects of halo big and small. Radical concept I know
I find this backlash to backlash incredibly tedious. Some people care about things you don’t, this doesn’t make complaints regarding a certain topic like dual wielding “sudden”. Certain folks love taking anecdotes like this as evidence to show how “unreasonable” or “hypocritical” the community at large is.
“Ugh the first community says the Love/Hate X Halo mechanic and now they are saying they Hate/Love X mechanic” as if the exact same community members making both statements…
And don’t forget if you have complaints about any given topic they better not exceed the level of disappointment that I have already decided is reasonable, otherwise you better “put you big boy pants on”…
Some members of the community have been pro dual wielding(and virtually every other topic) since it was first introduced and long after its removal, the reactions are only surprising if you haven’t been paying attention. Are you really surprised that some people would want a mechanic to return from the most popular Halo games in terms of player retention in Halo 2 and total sales in Halo 3? You can split hairs about why those games were popular, but chances are there is going to be a not insignificant cross-section of players who care about any given aspect of those games whether the majority of players cared about it or not.
> 2533274819446242;6:
> I find this backlash to backlash incredibly tedious. Some people care about things you don’t, this doesn’t make complaints regarding a certain topic like dual wielding “sudden”. Certain folks love taking anecdotes like this as evidence to show how “unreasonable” or “hypocritical” the community at large is.
Almost as predictable and tedious as the backlash to the backlash of the backlash.
It’s hard to know anymore who is genuinely upset or who is just trolling. Such is the great unwashed of the interwebs I suppose.
I’m not faulting anyone for being disappointed that a feature they love is not in the latest game release. What I do find surprising is the tone of some of the community’s response being borderline betrayal. There has been zero indication that 343 has ever considered bringing dual wielding back (or Elites for that matter). To me, it makes about as much sense as going to my favorite store and being appalled they are not offering a product that hasn’t been around in a decade. Sure, you are allowed to be disappointed; sure, you can decide to take your business elsewhere; but to act like a victim of deception is much too extreme. Let’s not build up our hype trains on our dreams for Halo, they will always crash, every time.
> 2585548714655118;7:
> > 2533274819446242;6:
> > I find this backlash to backlash incredibly tedious. Some people care about things you don’t, this doesn’t make complaints regarding a certain topic like dual wielding “sudden”. Certain folks love taking anecdotes like this as evidence to show how “unreasonable” or “hypocritical” the community at large is.
>
> Almost as predictable and tedious as the backlash to the backlash of the backlash.
>
> I am happy to dole out teaspoons of concrete powder to those who managed to button up their pants.
One of these things is not like the other. Dismissing other parts of the community as children for complaining too much or too loudly is in fact far more worthy of criticism than the fact that parts of the community have said complaints to begin with.
On the first level we have folks who believe that adding/removing/keeping any given mechanic/detail would make the game better. You can of course disagree with those suggestions/complaints(I certainly do), but the fact that people have them does not make those opinions worthy of scorn.
On the second level we people who have arbitrarily decided some types of complaints are only allowed up to a certain level before they become “annoying” or refuse to accept that some people care about topics that they don’t
On the third level there is me, pointing out that the second level’s complaints only serve to stifle discussion which is worse for the health of the community at large than parts of the community having those first level complaints to begin with. Which isn’t to say that the community is perfect, lord knows it has its issues, but the fact that some people have strong feelings about dual wielding, elites, shotguns, color choices, or movement mechanics is not among them.
Hey, did you know that, like, theres this crazy thing called Campaign? Well, a little bird told me that Campaign is 100x better and more important than multiplayer, AND that dual wielding was really fun in Campaign! Call me crazy, but I think dual wielding is 100% the right decision and that it would greatly improve the game.
> 2535445440275012;10:
> Hey, did you know that, like, theres this crazy thing called Campaign? Well, a little bird told me that Campaign is 100x better and more important than multiplayer, AND that dual wielding was really fun in Campaign! Call me crazy, but I think dual wielding is 100% the right decision and that it would greatly improve the game.
You’re crazy. Each campaign already has extravagant activities and secrets to make it fun. Adding duel wielding does not make the campaign “100x” better. I only recall me ever using it in Halo 2 to noob combo. Either than that, I drop the mechanic for any precision weapon I could find.
> 2533274819446242;9:
> > 2585548714655118;7:
> > > 2533274819446242;6:
> > > I find this backlash to backlash incredibly tedious. Some people care about things you don’t, this doesn’t make complaints regarding a certain topic like dual wielding “sudden”. Certain folks love taking anecdotes like this as evidence to show how “unreasonable” or “hypocritical” the community at large is.
> >
> > Almost as predictable and tedious as the backlash to the backlash of the backlash.
> >
> > I am happy to dole out teaspoons of concrete powder to those who managed to button up their pants.
>
> One of these things is not like the other. Dismissing other parts of the community as children for complaining too much or too loudly is in fact far more worthy of criticism than the fact that parts of the community have said complaints to begin with.
>
> On the first level we have folks who believe that adding/removing/keeping any given mechanic/detail would make the game better. You can of course disagree with those suggestions/complaints(I certainly do), but the fact that people have them does not make those opinions worthy of scorn.
>
> On the second level we people who have arbitrarily decided some types of complaints are only allowed up to a certain level before they become “annoying” or refuse to accept that some people care about topics that they don’t
>
> On the third level there is me, pointing out that the second level’s complaints only serve to stifle discussion which is worse for the health of the community at large than parts of the community having those first level complaints to begin with. Which isn’t to say that the community is perfect, lord knows it has its issues, but the fact that some people have strong feelings about dual wielding, elites, shotguns, color choices, or movement mechanics is not among them.
Yes, the line in the sand in somewhat arbitrary. Maybe I’m just becoming less tolerant as I get older (and no, I’m not a Boomer).
I don’t care if I think someone’s opinion is right or wrong (to my perspective)… I really don’t like it if you come across as a whiney little whinger. Dab the tears off your cheek and grow a pair (of whatever gonad type is appropriate).
Apologies to the OP - it’s not directed at this thread per se… I was just drawn to the context of the original comment “people losing their minds over it”.
In no way am I trying to stifle discussion. But I do think the health of the community is suffering overall.
> 2535445440275012;10:
> Hey, did you know that, like, theres this crazy thing called Campaign? Well, a little bird told me that Campaign is 100x better and more important than multiplayer, AND that dual wielding was really fun in Campaign! Call me crazy, but I think dual wielding is 100% the right decision and that it would greatly improve the game.
Yep DW was fun. But it made other parts of the game less fun.
You could definitely try and isolate it to Campaign only - but many (and it sound’s like 343 included) subscribe to the importance of a consistent sandbox between Campaign and Multiplayer.
The only place I could see it working is in custom games. It would be great to see it find a niche there.
I completely agree its a balancing nightmare and was never done that well except for just cool factor in campaign.
> 2585548714655118;5:
> Halo is a lot of things to a lot of people.
>
> The problem is that a small minority of people are getting disproportionately upset about some things being in / out of Infinite.
>
> Dual wielding… playable elites… a shotgun… colour choices… movement mechanics…
>
> Not saying you can’t / shouldn’t be disappointed. Or be able to express it as such. But it really annoys me when people go on a last straw / boycott the game / 343 hate me paranoia rant.
>
> Put you big boy pants on and give Infinite a chance to breathe.
>
> Oh, and a big HELL NO for dual wielding. It was a lot of fun but ultimately a VERY broken mechanic. There is a very good reason it was dropped… and why pretty much no other FPS shooter has taken it on.
The best reply quoted for truth.
I wish people wouldnt try so hard to cram their nostalgia into a brand new title while ignoring the issues said features presented. Its not like modders wont add stuff in for customs later anyway. We have a lot to look forward with infinite and while im super sad no invasion will be coming back at present im willing to see what they have before raising too much hell over niche things not being in.
> 2585548714655118;12:
> Yes, the line in the sand in somewhat arbitrary. Maybe I’m just becoming less tolerant as I get older (and no, I’m not a Boomer).
Its completely arbitrary outside of the point where complaints stop being criticism and turn into harassment(which is something that a lot more people would agree with). Getting older isn’t an excuse to stop being tolerant, especially when it really doesn’t actually affect you. Really what is the actual issue here? Do these complaints derail your hype train? What is the problem beyond not following your arbitrary standards that dictate what level of discussion is merited for any given topic.
> I don’t care if I think someone’s opinion is right or wrong (to my perspective)… I really don’t like it if you come across as a whiney little whinger. Dab the tears off your cheek and grow a pair (of whatever gonad type is appropriate).
Do really think this is positively contributing to the discourse? This is healthy for the community? This isn’t childish?
If this is the level we are at then my earnest suggestion would be to just get over it. Get over the fact that some individuals care more about dual wielding(or any given subject) more than you do. It costs you nothing and doesn’t muddy the water for others who do care.
> In no way am I trying to stifle discussion. But I do think the health of the community is suffering overall.
What other message are people supposed to get from what amounts to “I think your concerns are childish and not worthy of this level of discussion?” Which is what your posts here in this thread have amounted to. That is really the only message that one could get from the above. You’ve given up discussing the message and started to nitpick the messenger for not following “proper” complaint format.
You are assuming bad faith on the part of folks who have a greater passion for a given subject than you would expect and I find this assumption to be far worse for the health of the community at large.
I would really like a return for campaign at least, just as a trial or something. It seems like an easier compromise that really should happen at somepoint considering the biggest complaint against duel wielding is balancing issue in MP.
I think that the people who want dual-wielding back do so because they are able to enjoy the feature despite its flaws. I also think that the majority of the ones who don’t want dual-wielding focus too much on multiplayer. This may be unthinkable for some of them, but multiplayer isn’t all there is to Halo. As crazy as it sounds, there is a campaign too, and there are many people who prefer the campaign and may spend most of their time playing that. For those people, the positive experience and added level of fun they get from dual-wielding is reason enough for them to want it back. That is just what I think, anyway.
Yeah I don’t get what the big deal is either. Maybe it’s because I wasn’t playing Halo when it was first introduced so I didn’t get that “wow new thing!” factor from it but I’ve never cared for dual wielding in any game. I’m glad it’s not coming back.
Because it’s a cool and iconic feature of the Halo series. While it wasn’t implemented the best way in Halo 2 and 3 we know it can work if 343 took the time to actually properly balance it. Hell just look at Ruby’s Rebalanced Halo mods and how he handles dual wielding.