What's Actually Broken With H4's Flood.

Games Other Halo
1

Alternate Title: New Game, Same Old -Yoink-.

Seriously.

Let’s start with the laundry list of problems with the gametype:

Starting weapons
Player traits
AAs
Maps

Now lets pop that Flood Sac and dig into each one.

Starting Weapons.

Once again humans start with Shotguns and Magnums like it’s the dogma of any and all Infection gametypes. I detest these starting weapons. Or more specifically I detest the Shotgun. The Magnum is was just ridiculous on no shield gametypes like Brains and… well… all of Reach’s gametypes were based of Brains so Reach Infection just sucked.

Coming back to the Shotgun, I hate it because of the mechanics of the game. Lunging delays your attack while the game moves you forward to your target. In most instances this is helpful. It allows the Sword to have some range so it’s not utterly useless and most weapons can’t do enough damage, save for certain circumstances, to make this a problem. The Shotgun is one of those exceptions. Against any competent player a head to head confrontation between a Human and a Zombie is a near win for the Human player. The Shotgun will fire during the lunge and kill the Zombie before the attack is even made.

I hate this because not only do you have to close the gab to the Humans but you have to catch them unaware as well and either kill them from behind or from the side. Or in this case you have to do the old Save One Bullet tactic of trying to dance outside the Shotgun’s OSK range, lure out a shot and kill them before the animation finishes.

I hate it, I think it’s stupid, I want it to die. I very strongly feel that if I managed to get close enough to caress your trembling armor with sweet, hot, succulent kisses, then I have the right to stick my hot pointy thing in you for a point.

Player Traits

This really ties into AAs in the next bit as well.

Zombies have heightened speed, no sprinting, and heightened jump height.

These are problems because the former allows for absurd distance covering via Thruster Pack. So much so that it’s a boon and a bane. You can easily overshoot your target by a significant degree, lose track of him and get killed while it’s on CD. You can also travel faster than most people can track you, get lost in the confusion and start a murder spree.

Heightened jump height is also a problem because you are stuck in the air longer while you travel in a predictable path. Easy target.

Both sides also have access to the Motion Tracker as well. Why this is a problem will be revealed in the next section.

AAs

Human? Camo. Zombie? Thruster Pack.

Like something else? Don’t wanna be cookie cutter? Well then welcome to Obscuretown and Uselessville! Population: You!

HLS and PV are dam well near useless for Humans. HLS walks a razors edge where if it works, you survive and if it doesn’t you’re dead and only comes up in specific circumstances as a last ditch saving throw where your target is close enough to kill you. PV is useless because it’s redundant as Humans already have radar. Meanwhile Camo provides much more immediate and long term benefit since you are invisible and can surprise Zombies. Not to mention that I do believe that lock ons will not trigger against invisible targets.

PV is useless for Zombies because again: Radar. And in this case, Camo is completely outclasses by Thruster Pack. Thanks to Zombies increased foot speed, when they TP they can cover insane distances thanks to the momentum coming out of it. This is a boon for the trained and a bane for everyone else. You can TP into a group, moving faster than they can track you and get lost and kill people while they spin in circles trying to find you. For everyone else, you miss your target, lose him and get blown to bits while trying to find them.

All in all there is no choice in terms of AAs. Only the illusion of it.

Maps.

Complex has already been compromised. A massive camping spot has been found that is comparable to Red Lift on Sword Base.

God only knows how long until the other maps follow suit and 343 either responds by removing maps entirely or plastering them with so many kill zone bandaids that they scarcely resemble their original selves.

Conclusion

Flood, it’s as frustrating and infuriating as ever. Just in different ways than how Infection was in Reach and H3.

I’ve written off the gametype already, especially since the “winning” requirements that H3 and Reach used, placing in the top three, are gone. First or go home loser. You suck.

Worst part is that Custom Game options have been neutered for the game mode.

Actually…

Custom Game Infection

It’s dead. Dead as in decapitated zombie dead.

Yipee.

2

Infection has always been unfair to the zombie players. It’s about outnumbering players. If anything, the pistol needs a buff to make it a one headshot against the zombies.

3

> Infection has always been unfair to the zombie players. It’s about outnumbering players. If anything, the pistol needs a buff to make it a one headshot against the zombies.

lolwut?

In this one regard Flood is better than Brains and Zombies/Alpha Zombies ever was. OSK Magnums, aka Pocket Snipers, were ridiculous. They killed map movement, much less approaching your target to begin with.

And yes, Zombies start out handicapped. That’s the thing with Infection.

But it’s supposed to go like this:

Early Game: Zombies: Handicapped. Humans: Advantage.
Somewhere in Mid Game: Zombies and Humans: Roughly equal.
Late Game: Zombies: Advantaged. Humans: Handicapped.

It doesn’t.

Thanks to Shotguns which dominate head to head encounters and camping positions that force head to head encounters the above doesn’t happen. Humans camp, the stragglers or impatient players are picked off while the campers rack up kills until the game either times out or there’s finally enough Zombies to overpower the position or the Humans have run out of ammo.

The scoring system is a problem I didn’t address either. I should. It rewards lone wolf 1v1 encounters yet 1v1 encounters generally suck for Zombies outside of TP abuse. Being the distraction so your “team” wins doesn’t get you placed up there on the scoreboards with the guy that made the kill.

4

> Infection has always been unfair to the zombie players. It’s about outnumbering players. If anything, the pistol needs a buff to make it a one headshot against the zombies.

I don’t mind if they take like 2 headshots to kill, but right now it’s like 4 or 5 at least.

@ OP: I don’t know what change you hope to see with the shotgun. You complain about zombies getting picked off from afar via pistol, and you complain about getting shotgunned when you get up close. It seems you basically just don’t think you should have to die as a zombie.

A lot of the other stuff I actually agree with. I knew these armor abilities would be bad for the gametype. The only fitting one is promethean vision for infected.

As for the traits: In my opinion zombies should be able to sprint. I’m fine with them being able to jump high so it’s easier for them to reach the spots humans hold up at, but like you say they float down which causes a lot of deaths. They should have higher gravity so they can still jump high but fall faster.

Ideally I’d like to see it this way:
Humans - Shotgun, Pistol, sprint, no radar, no armor abilities.
Zombies - Sword (flood arm), 2 headshot kill, sprint, radar, promethean vision.

Maps need work
Stats shouldn’t effect k/d or w/l
Custom game options need huge improvement

I do like the flood skins and it seems to pick alpha zombies far more fairly.

5

> @ OP: I don’t know what change you hope to see with the shotgun. <mark>You complain about zombies getting picked off from afar via pistol,</mark> and you complain about getting shotgunned when you get up close. It seems you basically just don’t think you should have to die as a zombie.

That’s my complaint about Brains and Zombies/Alpha Zombies.

It’s fine in Flood.

Magnum is a 5SK.

The challenge for Zombies should be to get close to their target.

6

This entire post is idiotic. If you honestly think survivors shouldn’t have shotguns, then you’re wrong. That simple. Shotguns have been a staple of Zombies since Halo 2. Second, you say there are camping spots for humans. Absolutely. There should be camping spots in Infection. Always. Period.

Infection is not a fair gametype. It’s never been a fair gametype. It should never be a fair gametype. Humans have the advantage, and zombies have to rush in over and over again to kill the humans. That’s not a flaw, that’s the point. AA’s have made Flood the most balanced Infection gametype so far, (thanks to thruster), and I dislike that aspect about it, (although I do like the inclusion of AA’s). Humans should be burning through ammo and racking up 10’s of kills per round and zombies should be racking up 10’s of deaths. It’s that simple. If you dislike this setup, you shouldn’t set foot near an infection playlist in any Halo game.

7

> This entire post is idiotic. If you honestly think survivors shouldn’t have shotguns, then you’re wrong. That simple. Shotguns have been a staple of Zombies since Halo 2.

Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it should remain that way.

> Second, you say there are camping spots for humans. Absolutely. There should be camping spots in Infection. Always. Period.

Why?

Give me a good reason why spots like Red Lift on Sword Base should exist.

> Infection is not a fair gametype. It’s never been a fair gametype. It should never be a fair gametype. Humans have the advantage, and zombies have to rush in over and over again to kill the humans. That’s not a flaw, that’s the point.

And it makes for a horrible game because you are dying over and over again. Infection in H3 and Reach was torturous to play.

Flood in H4 is torturous but for different reasons. Either it’s Zombies with TP shenanigans or Humans camping.

> Humans should be burning through ammo and racking up 10’s of kills per round and zombies should be racking up 10’s of deaths. It’s that simple.

Should?

Justify it.

> If you dislike this setup, you shouldn’t set foot near an infection playlist in any Halo game.

I don’t.

I’ve written off the Flood gamemode.

8

> > @ OP: I don’t know what change you hope to see with the shotgun. <mark>You complain about zombies getting picked off from afar via pistol,</mark> and you complain about getting shotgunned when you get up close. It seems you basically just don’t think you should have to die as a zombie.
>
> That’s my complaint about Brains and Zombies/Alpha Zombies.
>
> It’s fine in Flood.
>
> Magnum is a 5SK.
>
> The challenge for Zombies should be to get close to their target.

That’s my point. Now that the magnum is basically only effective for a couple kills, the shotgun is the only real defense. It’s bad enough that in it’s effective kill range zombies are already close enough to lunge, which usually ends up with trading kills.

9

I don’t know what back water town of infection you came from, but this is how Infection always use to be, minus the recent AA’s of course.

Look you are going to die as a zombie, accept that. Almost all head on lone assaults always end up with the infected getting killed. So what should you do instead of continuously charging the line by yourself? Sneak around and wait for your prey to make a mistake. Pick off the stragglers and then focus on the main group.

The thruster pack is a little hard to get down as a zombie, but once you understand how to use it, you can become the bane of he living. The thruster pack is also what adds a certain unrest to the survivors, because if they aren’t quick enough, or can’t predict your movements, they will more than likely get killed. That is also why survivors need shotguns more than ever now, because any other weapon doesn’t have the stopping power to kill a zombie using a TP.

The Hard Light Shield does have one particularly good defensive trait I have only noticed when fighting as a group. Have some people designated as HLS users so that they can stop a zombie’s lunge. Then have the other survivors behind them blast the infected into oblivion. Think of the HLS as an officers riot shield used to push back and hold crowds, while the other officers behind them lob tear gas into the crowd to disperse them.

Even the Promethian vision is a useful tool for the flood, because towards the end of the round when you are having a hard time locating those last few survivors, turn on you promethian vision to locate anyone who thinks they can win this round with a clever and prove them wrong.

Lastly the pistol is a useful tool for the survivors, and should be the other element that prompts stealth and cunning vs direct attacks by the flood. It lets you pick off those flood trying to close the gap on you, and gives you some breathing room in the process. I am careful with my shots and try to get 5 shot kill all the time, but most people tend to spray and pray with them, or not use them at all. Ammo is usually gone after 3 kills with the magnum.

Most importantly though, teamwork and communication are both key elements you need to have in order to survive. The people who try to lone wolf it will always die first, so stay in a group to ensure survival.

10

> It’s bad enough that in it’s effective kill range [shotgun] zombies are already close enough to lunge, which usually ends up with trading kills.

I don’t get kill trades as a Zombie.

I just end up dead.

11

> > This entire post is idiotic. If you honestly think survivors shouldn’t have shotguns, then you’re wrong. That simple. Shotguns have been a staple of Zombies since Halo 2.
>
> Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it should remain that way.
>
>
>
> > Second, you say there are camping spots for humans. Absolutely. There should be camping spots in Infection. Always. Period.
>
> Why?
>
> Give me a good reason why spots like Red Lift on Sword Base should exist.

They provide humans an area to post up against zombies without having their backs exposed.

> > Infection is not a fair gametype. It’s never been a fair gametype. It should never be a fair gametype. Humans have the advantage, and zombies have to rush in over and over again to kill the humans. That’s not a flaw, that’s the point.
>
> And it makes for a horrible game because you are dying over and over again. Infection in H3 and Reach was torturous to play.
>
> Flood in H4 is torturous but for different reasons. Either it’s Zombies with TP shenanigans or Humans camping.

It’s only torturous if you go in expecting to play a balanced Slayer variant, which infection isn’t, nor has it ever been. Once again, I reiterate, Infection provides a major advantage to the human players. That’s the point of the game, and what separates it from just another slayer variant.

> > Humans should be burning through ammo and racking up 10’s of kills per round and zombies should be racking up 10’s of deaths. It’s that simple.
>
> Should?
>
> Justify it.

That’s how the gametype was originally intended to be played in Halo 2. Humans camping while zombies rushed them, attempting to get kills. Humans would eventually run out of ammo, allowing the zombies to overrun them. It’s supposed to simulate a zombie apocalypse-type scenario. The humans have an advantage up until the point that they run out of resources. It’s balanced because within the three rounds, chances are you’ll only start as zombie once.

Short answer: because that’s what the gametype is. That’s like asking “Why does CTF have to be about capturing a flag?”

> > If you dislike this setup, you shouldn’t set foot near an infection playlist in any Halo game.
>
> I don’t.
>
> I’ve written off the Flood gamemode.

That’s very fortunate, because you clearly don’t understand the gametype. It’s especially sad considering Flood is the most balanced incarnation of the gametype so far, since zombies can see through walls and fly 300 feet.

12

> I don’t know what back water town of infection you came from, but this is how Infection always use to be, minus the recent AA’s of course.

And as I’ve always said, Infection has always sucked.

> Tips and Tricks on how to play Flood.

I’m well aware of how to play and be successful at Flood.

I don’t need tips and tricks.

13

> This entire post is idiotic. If you honestly think survivors shouldn’t have shotguns, then you’re wrong. That simple. Shotguns have been a staple of Zombies since Halo 2. Second, you say there are camping spots for humans. Absolutely. There should be camping spots in Infection. Always. Period.
>
> Infection is not a fair gametype. It’s never been a fair gametype. It should never be a fair gametype. Humans have the advantage, and zombies have to rush in over and over again to kill the humans. That’s not a flaw, that’s the point. AA’s have made Flood the most balanced Infection gametype so far, (thanks to thruster), and I dislike that aspect about it, (although I do like the inclusion of AA’s). Humans should be burning through ammo and racking up 10’s of kills per round and zombies should be racking up 10’s of deaths. It’s that simple. If you dislike this setup, you shouldn’t set foot near an infection playlist in any Halo game.

I’m glad someone else around here understands the gametype. Ignore the OP. This guy has a problem with the core concept of halo zombies, and wants it completely overhauled.

People play zombie games to kill lots of zombies. In halo, zombies are controlled by players, not NPC’s. If you can’t handle dying as a zombie, the gametype isn’t for you.

14

> And as I’ve always said, Infection has always sucked.

then maybe this just isn’t your game type

15

Latency is the only thing that i hate about Flood.

I HATE that i can kill a zombie and watch his body fly through me and kill me.
I HATE that i can stab a human feel the rumble in my controller and still have them punch me

I HATE that a zombie can thruster past me and still hit me mid way because the game thought he was actually next to me instead of 30 feet away like it showed me.

16

No motion sensor would make flood alot more fun.

17

Nothings been as good as h3s yet. That infection was way funner.

In all honesty, they need to work from the ground up on the options. I tryed to get this popular in reach, but it didnt. Heres the gametype that would work for 99% of maps:

Alpha zombie- invincible + waypoint + normal speed (to act as a flusher)
Normal zombie - normal shields, has enhanced radar, normal movement
Player - perfect radar, weapon pickup
Map - weapons on map

I know im forgetting something, but the basic gist of it is to have more weapon variety, better balancing, constant movement to avoid alpha, less camping (on both parts), reward “squadwork”, etc.

18

> They provide humans an area to post up against zombies without having their backs exposed.

It creates a stupid setup where Zombies are forced into continually dying to either drain their opponents of ammo or break through between trigger pulls and during reloads.

If I wanted such one dimensional sit in a cave and pull the trigger against anything that moves, I would have asked for and be playing Firefight. At least Firefight doesn’t make players live through the experience of being an Elite getting sniped in the dome over and over again.

> It’s only torturous if you go in expecting to play a balanced Slayer variant, which infection isn’t, nor has it ever been. Once again, I reiterate, Infection provides a major advantage to the human players. That’s the point of the game, and what separates it from just another slayer variant.

I thought was separates it from being a Slayer variant the changing teams upon death mechanic.

> That’s how the gametype was originally intended to be played in Halo 2. Humans camping while zombies rushed them, attempting to get kills. Humans would eventually run out of ammo, allowing the zombies to overrun them. It’s supposed to simulate a zombie apocalypse-type scenario.

And I’m stating again: Forcing players to die over and over again to drain their opponents of ammo for free uncontested kills because their targets can no longer retaliate is a stupid idea and a stupid game mode.

> The humans have an advantage up until the point that they run out of resources. It’s balanced because within the three rounds, chances are you’ll only start as zombie once.

“Balance” by making everyone suffer once is a horrible way to balance anything.

> That’s very fortunate, because you clearly don’t understand the gametype.

On the contrary, I understand the gametype just fine.

19

> People play zombie games to kill lots of zombies. In halo, zombies are controlled by players, not NPC’s.

And that’s the problem. Why make players suffer through constant deaths in a vastly lopsided fight?

And if people just wanted to shoot zombies all day long then I’m pretty sure the better option would be to make it a Firefight gametype.

20

> > They provide humans an area to post up against zombies without having their backs exposed.
>
> It creates a stupid setup where Zombies are forced into continually dying to either drain their opponents of ammo or break through between trigger pulls and during reloads.
>
> If I wanted such one dimensional sit in a cave and pull the trigger against anything that moves, I would have asked for and be playing Firefight. At least Firefight doesn’t make players live through the experience of being an Elite getting sniped in the dome over and over again.

The one important aspect that you’re forgetting is that many people enjoy being a zombie. Not all human players are created equal, and rushing in to infect one two who aren’t paying attention is one of the most satisfying aspects of the game.

> > It’s only torturous if you go in expecting to play a balanced Slayer variant, which infection isn’t, nor has it ever been. Once again, I reiterate, Infection provides a major advantage to the human players. That’s the point of the game, and what separates it from just another slayer variant.
>
> I thought was separates it from being a Slayer variant the changing teams upon death mechanic.

That’s one aspect that separates it. However, that aspect, and the game’s inherent imbalance go hand in hand. The zombies are at a disadvantage to the humans, but every time a zombie does kill a player, they get a teammate.

> > That’s how the gametype was originally intended to be played in Halo 2. Humans camping while zombies rushed them, attempting to get kills. Humans would eventually run out of ammo, allowing the zombies to overrun them. It’s supposed to simulate a zombie apocalypse-type scenario.
>
> And I’m stating again: Forcing players to die over and over again to drain their opponents of ammo for free uncontested kills because their targets can no longer retaliate is a stupid idea and a stupid game mode.

That’s your opinion, and it’s an uneducated one.

> > The humans have an advantage up until the point that they run out of resources. It’s balanced because within the three rounds, chances are you’ll only start as zombie once.
>
> “Balance” by making everyone suffer once is a horrible way to balance anything.

Once again, your opinion, and once again uneducated, considering the fact that the majority of players don’t ‘suffer’ as zombies. They play the game the way it was meant to be played and have fun doing it.

> > That’s very fortunate, because you clearly don’t understand the gametype.
>
> On the contrary, I understand the gametype just fine.

It’s obvious you do not. You may think you do, but you’re mistaken. If you actually understood the appeal and why the gametype exists in the form it does, you wouldn’t have made this thread or be arguing against me. You may still not like it, but you wouldn’t think it was unfair or broken.