What would happen if halo returned to CE

1: Sales in the mainstream Market would plummet, apart from “pros” or as I call them, change haters.
2. Halo would be guilty of doing a CoD, copy paste gameplay.
3. We would return to “one weapon to rule them all”.
4. We would lose the lovely weapons introduced in 2, 3, Reach etc.
5. We already have CEA, a tweaked version of the game, with MM.
6. All of halo’s legacy, of complex gameplay, requiring you to find the best weapon for the situation, is replaced by “get a pistol when you spawn, oh wait I already have one”.
7. It would canonically make no sense, losing all the weapons and vehicles as well as vehicle mechanics, instead making them invincible (again, canonically incorrect) or easy to destroy (covie) with no extra damage resistance (tank).

I rest my case.

TL;DR: CE style gameplay returning would kill halo.

Now please, give 343 a chance to create THEIR GAME, not a bungie game with a 343 logo.

Please post after voting.

i just don’t know how much more i can disagree with you…

  1. you could be right, but how would you know?
  2. how would it be copy/paste? it would be the second game ever to have these mechanics and the first from a new company.
  3. the pistol only “ruled them all” if you were literally a top 10 player. just go ahead and try to 3 shot all the time. friggin impossible.
  4. oh no, we’ll lose out on the SMG…let me just go cry myself to sleep.
  5. no, we don’t have MM with it. we have Reach MM with an anniversary playlist. different physics, different engine, different everything except the pistol can 3 shot. woo~
  6. isn’t that what they are doing with weapon loadouts? cmon…it’s like you aren’t even trying at this point.
  7. and having the DMR in reach, but not in CE makes sense…right? and isn’t 343 guiding the canon right now? so they could write it in how ever they want.

i’m not saying that i want halo 4 to be a carbon-copy of CE. i’m just saying that your argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny with someone who has played every halo game for a longgggg time.

i’m looking forward to what’s new in Halo 4, but this is just a depressing thread on multiple levels. almost as depressing as those COD threads.

> 1: Sales in the mainstream Market would plummet, apart from “pros” or as I call them, change haters.
> 2. Halo would be guilty of doing a CoD, copy paste gameplay.
> 3. We would return to “one weapon to rule them all”.
> 4. We would lose the lovely weapons introduced in 2, 3, Reach etc.
> 5. We already have CEA, a tweaked version of the game, with MM.
> 6. All of halo’s legacy, of complex gameplay, requiring you to find the best weapon for the situation, is replaced by “get a pistol when you spawn, oh wait I already have one”.
> 7. It would canonically make no sense, losing all the weapons and vehicles as well as vehicle mechanics, instead making them invincible (again, canonically incorrect) or easy to destroy (covie) with no extra damage resistance (tank).
>
> I rest my case.
>
> TL;DR: CE style gameplay returning would kill halo.
>
> Now please, give 343 a chance to create THEIR GAME, not a bungie game with a 343 logo.

kill halo?

honestly bro, if they just turned on the halo 2 servers RIGHT NOW, halo 2 would DECIMATE reach. it really would!

who the heck would play halo reach when you could play halo 2?

<3 your first point especially. shows your true colors when you attack a strawman like that.

‘change haters’?

more like dumpster-tier mechanics haters. at least then you are accurately expressing how we feel. its not that things have changed, its what they have changed into. CHANGE is good, change into TRASH is BAD.

by your inverse logic, you are basically saying that all change is good. after all you arent a change hater, right? so off the spawn, in halo 4, you always explode after 10 seconds. DONT BE A CHANGE HATER BRO.

my point is, where do you draw the line with blatantly terrible / poorly implemented mechanics. personally, myself and most every other serious competitive halo player remains on a strict “NO COMPLACENCY FOR ILLOGICAL MECHANICS AND MECHANICS THAT REWARD PEOPLE FOR PLAYING LIKE IDIOTS” policy.

so applying this policy to reach, what do we have:

Shooting my DMR with a flawless cadence and perfect aim -> get beat by full auto spam by a noob flailing around -> failed mechanic.

Shooting at someone who decides ‘IMMA RUN AT YOU BRO! WITH MY FISTS OF RAGE!’ i shoot, and shoot, but WHOOPS! shooting wasnt viable there -> maybe tie, maybe win the encounter, maybe die, but regardless of the outcome the game fails.

Playing a halo game -> see people flying 50 feet above the map, whilst other people stand in random exploit spots indefinitely, reigning death down from above, and blowing chunks in the core concept of ‘map control’ -> failed mechanic.

armor lock -> do i even need to explain this one? -> failed mechanic.

getting outplayed -> sprint away! -> failed mechanic.

grenades are mini nukes -> failed mechanic.

etc. etc.

i really truly wish i was as complacent or as uninformed / misguided as many of the reach fans are.

If the h4 mechanic you suggested was only in a specific gametype, then it would force you to think quick and kill quick, as well as avoiding enemy fire.

See, optimist here!

> > 1: Sales in the mainstream Market would plummet, apart from “pros” or as I call them, change haters.
> > 2. Halo would be guilty of doing a CoD, copy paste gameplay.
> > 3. We would return to “one weapon to rule them all”.
> > 4. We would lose the lovely weapons introduced in 2, 3, Reach etc.
> > 5. We already have CEA, a tweaked version of the game, with MM.
> > 6. All of halo’s legacy, of complex gameplay, requiring you to find the best weapon for the situation, is replaced by “get a pistol when you spawn, oh wait I already have one”.
> > 7. It would canonically make no sense, losing all the weapons and vehicles as well as vehicle mechanics, instead making them invincible (again, canonically incorrect) or easy to destroy (covie) with no extra damage resistance (tank).
> >
> > I rest my case.
> >
> > TL;DR: CE style gameplay returning would kill halo.
> >
> > Now please, give 343 a chance to create THEIR GAME, not a bungie game with a 343 logo.
>
> kill halo?
>
> honestly bro, if they just turned on the halo 2 servers RIGHT NOW, halo 2 would DECIMATE reach. it really would!
>
> who the heck would play halo reach when you could play halo 2?
>
> <3 your first point especially. shows your true colors when you attack a strawman like that.
>
> ‘change haters’?
>
> more like dumpster-tier mechanics haters. at least then you are accurately expressing how we feel. its not that things have changed, its what they have changed into. CHANGE is good, change into TRASH is BAD.
>
> by your inverse logic, you are basically saying that all change is good. after all you arent a change hater, right? so off the spawn, in halo 4, you always explode after 10 seconds. DONT BE A CHANGE HATER BRO.
>
> my point is, where do you draw the line with blatantly terrible / poorly implemented mechanics. personally, myself and most every other serious competitive halo player remains on a strict “NO COMPLACENCY FOR ILLOGICAL MECHANICS AND MECHANICS THAT REWARD PEOPLE FOR PLAYING LIKE IDIOTS” policy.
>
> so applying this policy to reach, what do we have:
>
> Shooting my DMR with a flawless cadence and perfect aim -> get beat by full auto spam by a noob flailing around -> failed mechanic.
>
> Shooting at someone who decides ‘IMMA RUN AT YOU BRO! WITH MY FISTS OF RAGE!’ i shoot, and shoot, but WHOOPS! shooting wasnt viable there -> maybe tie, maybe win the encounter, maybe die, but regardless of the outcome the game fails.
>
> Playing a halo game -> see people flying 50 feet above the map, whilst other people stand in random exploit spots indefinitely, reigning death down from above, and blowing chunks in the core concept of ‘map control’ -> failed mechanic.
>
> armor lock -> do i even need to explain this one? -> failed mechanic.
>
> getting outplayed -> sprint away! -> failed mechanic.
>
> grenades are mini nukes -> failed mechanic.
>
> etc. etc.
>
> i really truly wish i was as complacent or as uninformed / misguided as many of the reach fans are.

I have to agree with Urza. No one, and I really mean no one, is against change in general. Blindly liking any change made is irrational. We are simply acting like rational beings and trusting our own knowledge is change detrimental or benefical. In it’s current situation, Halo 4 looks like a game that was changed for the sake of change. None of the mechanics bring anything new to the table and some of them even sound detrimental to the gameplay.

That most certainly isn’t the type of change we want, even though we are very fine with change, as long as it is rational and benefical to the game. The changes in Halo 4, no matter how you look at them, are redundant at best. They offer nothing new and interesting to gameplay, avoiding the whole point of making changes to gameplay.

> If the h4 mechanic you suggested was only in a specific gametype, then it would force you to think quick and kill quick, as well as avoiding enemy fire.
>
> See, optimist here!

Except it would get extremely boring, frustrating and repetitive after a while. Ten seconds of time would also get you hardly any kills. And, that is assuming the whole mechanic was only in one gametype. In reality, the changes being made to Halo 4, are mostly going to be in all gametypes aside from the player spawn system.

A matter of fact is, the changes being made to Halo 4 aren’t benefical to the game, they don’t enhance the gameplay in a positive manner. They’re there for the sake of change. For the sake of 343i trying to reach more popularity and make the game different from what it used to be in order to take it further away from Bungie’s Halo. That’s not a good thing. Change should only be made if it actually has something to offer.

Not even going to reply you clearly have never played Halo 1 all you did in this post was complain about the pistol like it was a defect. And Btw people who want H1 want the core of the game to be like H1, they want Halo not some other game.

I used to like you, not anymore.

Change haters?

If changes are good, then yes please for change!

But 5sk BR? Loadouts/classes? Bloom again?

I heard that you can start with a BR and a plasma pistol.

We got ourselves Reach 2 and not Halo 4.

The default of Halo 4 will be like Elite Slayer in Reach every game.

> personally, myself and most every other serious <mark>competitive halo player</mark> remains on a strict “NO COMPLACENCY FOR ILLOGICAL MECHANICS AND MECHANICS THAT REWARD PEOPLE FOR PLAYING LIKE IDIOTS” policy.

There are those words again. Honestly, there is no such thing as a “competitive” player or a “casual” player.

-“Competitive” players play to win, and they like winning. Therefore if you are doing something you enjoy doing, you are having fun.

-“Casual” players play to have fun. When they play, the objective is to usually win. Therefore they are still playing to win.

> Playing a halo game -> see people flying 50 feet above the map, whilst other people stand in random exploit spots indefinitely, reigning death down from above, and blowing chunks in the core concept of ‘map control’ -> failed mechanic.

Space above the map is part of the map too. Getting from point A to point B faster doesn’t destroy a map.

> armor lock -> do i even need to explain this one? -> failed mechanic.

Not even in halo 4.

> getting outplayed -> sprint away! -> failed mechanic.

Sprint upgraded, if you are shot while sprinting, you slow down to prevent this reason. Also, everyone has this ability, therefore you could chase after them.

> grenades are mini nukes -> failed mechanic.

Never seemed to have a problem with them like that :confused:

> i really truly wish i was as complacent or as uninformed / misguided as many of the reach fans are.

Although I can’t say I was the BIGGEST fan of Reach, this remark is completely wrong. Just because someone liked a game, you are going to label them as misguided? Wow bro, not cool.

> I have to agree with Urza. No one, and I really mean no one, is against change in general. Blindly liking any change made is irrational. We are simply acting like rational beings and trusting our own knowledge is change detrimental or benefical. In it’s current situation, Halo 4 looks like a game that was changed for the sake of change. None of the mechanics bring anything new to the table and some of them even sound detrimental to the gameplay.
>
> That most certainly isn’t the type of change we want, even though we are very fine with change, as long as it is rational and benefical to the game. The changes in Halo 4, no matter how you look at them, are redundant at best. They offer nothing new and interesting to gameplay, avoiding the whole point of making changes to gameplay.
>
>
>
> > If the h4 mechanic you suggested was only in a specific gametype, then it would force you to think quick and kill quick, as well as avoiding enemy fire.
> >
> > See, optimist here!
>
> Except it would get extremely boring, frustrating and repetitive after a while. Ten seconds of time would also get you hardly any kills. And, that is assuming the whole mechanic was only in one gametype. In reality, the changes being made to Halo 4, are mostly going to be in all gametypes aside from the player spawn system.
>
> A matter of fact is, the changes being made to Halo 4 aren’t benefical to the game, they don’t enhance the gameplay in a positive manner. They’re there for the sake of change. For the sake of 343i trying to reach more popularity and make the game different from what it used to be in order to take it further away from Bungie’s Halo. That’s not a good thing. Change should only be made if it actually has something to offer.

Some of this is true, depending on what your standpoint is.

I think that 343i’s method of changing for the sake of change is neither inherently good nor bad. Depends on what you’re changing, why, and how. Halo’s simple to-the-point Multiplayer (up until Halo 3, Reach’s gameplay was flawed and misguided in a competitive sense) is going to get stale, fast because of its basic nature.

The changes added are not to differentiate from Bungie. That approach is pointless and makes no sense from a development or business standpoint. The changes are there for the sake of change, but only because 343i knows Halo’s simple gameplay will not hold up for much longer. The changes are there to spice it up.

> Some of this is true, depending on what your standpoint is.
>
> I think that 343i’s method of changing for the sake of change is neither inherently good nor bad. Depends on what you’re changing, why, and how. Halo’s simple to-the-point Multiplayer (up until Halo 3, Reach’s gameplay was flawed and misguided in a competitive sense) is going to get stale, fast because of its basic nature.
>
> The changes added are not to differentiate from Bungie. That approach is pointless and makes no sense from a development or business standpoint. The changes are there for the sake of change, but only because 343i knows Halo’s simple gameplay will not hold up for much longer. The changes are there to spice it up.

The model of thinking that change is always needed in order to not lose appeal is flawed. Eventually, a game that keeps adding new mechanics is going choke on its own complexity. Of course, mechanics can be removed, but there’s just so much the game can do. However, in contrary to what you said, a game doesn’t need to change in order to appeal to people.

If games really needed change all the time, games such as chess wouldn’t exist. There are lots of games that have went through little to no change overtime and have still remained popular. Instead of changing them in an attempt to appeal people’s need of something new, they have improved and refined their gameplay in many ways.

The point I’m making here is that Halo should’ve done what it’s good at since the beginning: competition, customizability and story. Developing these attributes, instead of changing the gameplay could’ve provided and would provide at least as much popularity and a less shattered community.

A game has options: it may try to change itself everytime, either becoming something it wasn’t meant to be or using all the possible directions of change within its own boundaries. It may try to keep the original gameplay intact while add some imaginary depth with ever increasing complexity of mechanics, essentially chocking to its own complexity. It may also stay completely without change, without any kind of optimization, frozen to what it was and eventually starve to death. Or… it may take what it does very well, improve on that while going through minor changes with each iteration and adding in features outside of gameplay. The last method won’t quarantee it to last forever, but will give it long life due to consistency and continuous improvement of existing gameplay.

A game doesn’t need to be complex to be fun. There are two aspects that are often getting mixed in game development: depth and complexity. It is often thought that more complexity means more depth. And I can completely see the reasoning behind that as logically thinking, a higher amount of mechanics means more for the player to do and learn. Still, it really doesn’t work that way. Complexity doesn’t quarantee depth, nor does depth mean complexity. A better depth is often achieved with simple gameplay, because it allows the developer to concentrate on what’s essential and allows the player to have full control over the mechanics, after which they can start thinking about them in deeper depth.

Making a game too complex prevents any kind of real depth, or at least, any kind of depth the player will ever see. First of all, when a developer concentrates on a huge amount of mechanics, individual mechanics will naturally be less deep. the second thing hidering depth in very complex game is the player’s inability to know everything they needed to. They can either take the approach of delving deeper into a few mechanics or trying to grasp the whole game, but never be able to delve deeper into the mechanics. on top of that, the player can’t really control all this even if they wanted to. In an extreme scenario, this may translate to player getting bored because of the feeling of inferiority in face of all the mechanics.

In the end, simple, well defined, deep and polished mechanics are much better for the player and the game than complex, boring and maybe even bad mechanics. That’s why keeping simplicity is a good idea. But as I hinted, simplicity doesn’t mean zero tolerance for change. Changes can be made and even new, minor mechanics can be added. But all that has to have a good reason that benefits the game as it is.

P.S. I’m willing to bet that 343i are trying to be different from Bungie. After all, they have hinted at it. For example, in the First Look ViDoc when Neil Harrison said “Equally, we want this to be our Halo game…”. Another thing also hinting at this the new appearance of the Grunts. There is absolutely no other justificiation for it than trying to make it look different, otherwise it could’ve just been a high fidelity version of the Reach Grunt. You sure are right that the approach makes no sense, but that’s what they’re doing. And it’s evident everywhere.

> > 1: Sales in the mainstream Market would plummet, apart from “pros” or as I call them, change haters.
> > 2. Halo would be guilty of doing a CoD, copy paste gameplay.
> > 3. We would return to “one weapon to rule them all”.
> > 4. We would lose the lovely weapons introduced in 2, 3, Reach etc.
> > 5. We already have CEA, a tweaked version of the game, with MM.
> > 6. All of halo’s legacy, of complex gameplay, requiring you to find the best weapon for the situation, is replaced by “get a pistol when you spawn, oh wait I already have one”.
> > 7. It would canonically make no sense, losing all the weapons and vehicles as well as vehicle mechanics, instead making them invincible (again, canonically incorrect) or easy to destroy (covie) with no extra damage resistance (tank).
> >
> > I rest my case.
> >
> > TL;DR: CE style gameplay returning would kill halo.
> >
> > Now please, give 343 a chance to create THEIR GAME, not a bungie game with a 343 logo.
>
> kill halo?
>
> honestly bro, if they just turned on the halo 2 servers RIGHT NOW, halo 2 would DECIMATE reach. it really would!
>
> who the heck would play halo reach when you could play halo 2?
>
> <3 your first point especially. shows your true colors when you attack a strawman like that.
>
> ‘change haters’?
>
> more like dumpster-tier mechanics haters. at least then you are accurately expressing how we feel. its not that things have changed, its what they have changed into. CHANGE is good, change into TRASH is BAD.
>
> by your inverse logic, you are basically saying that all change is good. after all you arent a change hater, right? so off the spawn, in halo 4, you always explode after 10 seconds. DONT BE A CHANGE HATER BRO.
>
> my point is, where do you draw the line with blatantly terrible / poorly implemented mechanics. personally, myself and most every other serious competitive halo player remains on a strict “NO COMPLACENCY FOR ILLOGICAL MECHANICS AND MECHANICS THAT REWARD PEOPLE FOR PLAYING LIKE IDIOTS” policy.
>
> so applying this policy to reach, what do we have:
>
> Shooting my DMR with a flawless cadence and perfect aim -> get beat by full auto spam by a noob flailing around -> failed mechanic.
>
> Shooting at someone who decides ‘IMMA RUN AT YOU BRO! WITH MY FISTS OF RAGE!’ i shoot, and shoot, but WHOOPS! shooting wasnt viable there -> maybe tie, maybe win the encounter, maybe die, but regardless of the outcome the game fails.
>
> Playing a halo game -> see people flying 50 feet above the map, whilst other people stand in random exploit spots indefinitely, reigning death down from above, and blowing chunks in the core concept of ‘map control’ -> failed mechanic.
>
> armor lock -> do i even need to explain this one? -> failed mechanic.
>
> getting outplayed -> sprint away! -> failed mechanic.
>
> grenades are mini nukes -> failed mechanic.
>
> etc. etc.
>
> i really truly wish i was as complacent or as uninformed / misguided as many of the reach fans are.

Thank you, I’m getting tired of typing all this up myself.

Change can be good, but making change for the sake of change is terrible. I’ll go out on a limb and say that I’ve stuck around through Reach and I’m still here, I hate the game though. I think Halo 4 will be considerably better than Reach was, so at the very least I win there. Whether it will be a damn good game remains to be seen, worst comes to worst it can be hacked up and customized, but the issue there is when you make competitive settings that are too far from default you lose your potential competitive audience.

From what I see, AA’s can be fun, sure. But can they provide solid, lasting gameplay thats consistent and not purely situational? doubtful. The best thing 343 could do for this game is just make kill times fast again and at the very least I can negate most people using AA’s to get away or just punish them for bad positioning.

I hope many of you haven’t forgotten that Halo is an arena shooter, and the changes that they’re making take away from what it means to be an arena shooter.

  1. Sales come from hype and marketing. Small gameplay changes play essentially no role in it.

  2. COD sells like crazy because it gives it’s player base what it wants. That’s why they’re #1 and halo is not.

  3. Every halo game has revolved around a utilitarian weapon. As it should.

> 1: Sales in the mainstream Market would plummet, apart from “pros” or as I call them, change haters.
> 2. Halo would be guilty of doing a CoD, copy paste gameplay.
> 3. We would return to “one weapon to rule them all”.
> 4. We would lose the lovely weapons introduced in 2, 3, Reach etc.
> 5. We already have CEA, a tweaked version of the game, with MM.
> 6. All of halo’s legacy, of complex gameplay, requiring you to find the best weapon for the situation, is replaced by “get a pistol when you spawn, oh wait I already have one”.
> 7. It would canonically make no sense, losing all the weapons and vehicles as well as vehicle mechanics, instead making them invincible (again, canonically incorrect) or easy to destroy (covie) with no extra damage resistance (tank).
>
> I rest my case.
>
> TL;DR: CE style gameplay returning would kill halo.
>
> Now please, give 343 a chance to create THEIR GAME, not a bungie game with a 343 logo.

You forgot to mention

X-treme lag- I have yet to find a game with more lag than CE on PC
Invincible vehicles
A map that is… a maze? Good for zombie mods though.
The tiniest bump of a vehicle is a splatter
Grenades were mini nukes in that game
Plasma grenades take forever to blow up
Assault rifle that is worthless compared to the pistol
Join in progress (this was good sometimes, but it destroyed almost all competition)
Complete lack of a ranking system

I can agree with wanting the game to return to Halo 2 or Halo 3 style multiplayer, but seriously, does anyone want to return to the “god pistol,” the extreme lag, invincible vehicles, or a lack of a ranking system?

The only good things Halo CE multiplayer had were the maps and high movement speed. People also made some nice mods, but that technically isn’t part of the game.

>

Did you even play CE?

If Halo CE did become the new MM it would fail. CE was designed for 2001 not 2012 so it would never last.

However if H4 did have a CE ‘feel’ in the campaign it would be EPIC and sell really well.

> >
>
> Did you even play CE?

Yes, in fact I have it on my desktop right now.

You can download it for free. If you play the multiplayer, you will see that all of my points are correct.

But the campaign was the best Halo campaign ever. It just had so much more variety than past Halo games.

Edit: Oh wait… nvm, you were replying to someone else…

2nd Edit: But A Moa Lover is right, the pistol was horribly overpowered.

Although I think that most of the pros would leave aswell due to the X-treme lag, lack of a ranking system, and join in progress.

>

First of all, Join-in-progress is already in H4.
Second, although the Pistol may have been stronger than it needed to be, the one gun gameplay was born in H2 has continued to live on in every title past that.

Plus point number 6 of his argument seriously makes me question the fact that he played CE and not H2 or 3.

> i just don’t know how much more i can disagree with you…
>
> 1. you could be right, but how would you know?
> 2. how would it be copy/paste? it would be the second game ever to have these mechanics and the first from a new company.
> 3. the pistol only “ruled them all” if you were literally a top 10 player. just go ahead and try to 3 shot all the time. friggin impossible.
> 4. oh no, we’ll lose out on the SMG…let me just go cry myself to sleep.
> 5. no, we don’t have MM with it. we have Reach MM with an anniversary playlist. different physics, different engine, different everything except the pistol can 3 shot. woo~
> 6. isn’t that what they are doing with weapon loadouts? cmon…it’s like you aren’t even trying at this point.
> 7. and having the DMR in reach, but not in CE makes sense…right? and isn’t 343 guiding the canon right now? so they could write it in how ever they want.
>
> i’m not saying that i want halo 4 to be a carbon-copy of CE. i’m just saying that your argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny with someone who has played every halo game for a longgggg time.
>
> i’m looking forward to what’s new in Halo 4, but this is just a depressing thread on multiple levels. almost as depressing as those COD threads.

It was hard to 3shot due to lag and spread. And yes, also a little bit because of the lack of aim assist, but 90% of it goes to the lag.

The lag sometimes makes it hard to 12 shot people. The lag was X-treme on that games multiplayer.

The pistol ruled everything except the rocket launcher, fuel rod gun, and the sniper rifle. The shotgun was sometimes useful as a secondary weapon to the pistol, but no one would ever fight over something as minuscule as a shotgun in that game when you spawn with a pistol.

And yes, CE did have a fuel rod gun, but only on the PC version.

I don’t believe you have ever played CE on PC. PC is the only place where CE ever had online multiplayer, unless you count system connect.

> >
>
> First of all, Join-in-progress is already in H4.
> Second, although the Pistol may have been stronger than it needed to be, the one gun gameplay was born in H2 has continued to live on in every title past that.
>
> Plus point number 6 of his argument seriously makes me question the fact that he played CE and not H2 or 3.

That is all true, but the Halo 2 BR was not nearly as bad as the CE pistol.

The one gun gameplay was born in CE. The only weapons that got used besides the pistol were power weapons, and in some cases the shotgun. (The shotgun wasn’t even considered a power weapon in that game due to the pistol’s ridiculousness).

Yes, one gun gameplay lived on in Halo 2 and Reach (DMR), but in all of the games, people still went after power weapons.

I can agree that I don’t agree with point #6. People still fought over power weapons in CE.

Yes, JIP is in Halo 4, but no one wants it, and we have already seen in CE that it destroys most competition. It would be good for customs and social games, but it must stay out of competitive/ranked matches.

So far, I have seen nothing that will convince me that CE multiplayer was better than Halo 2 multiplayer. Halo 2 clearly had better multiplayer than CE.