If they keep personal loadouts (at least have gametypes with them maybe) then the Plasma Pistol would be a problem if it kept its EMP capabilities, so what could be done is revert the Plasma Pistol back to its Halo CE counterpart then for EMPing stuff just add the Grenade Launcher from Reach back
Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
> Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
> > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
>
> Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
Because there’s no reason to change how the gun works, when it makes far more sense to get rid of custom loadouts altogether due to the large number of problems they cause.
> > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
>
> Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
I really didn’t want a debate, but here goes.
The plasma pistol without the EMP blast is useless. Not to mention that it’s an iconic aspect of the weapon. Why take that feature away to satisfy a broken system?
> > > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
> >
> > Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
>
> <mark>Because there’s no reason to change how the gun works</mark>, when <mark>it makes far more sense to get rid of custom loadouts altogether due to the large number of problems they cause.</mark>
Didn’t they do that to add the EMP function
Or have different gametypes with set weapons and others with loadouts
> > > > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
> > >
> > > Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
> >
> > <mark>Because there’s no reason to change how the gun works</mark>, when <mark>it makes far more sense to get rid of custom loadouts altogether due to the large number of problems they cause.</mark>
>
> Didn’t they do that to add the EMP function
>
> Or have different gametypes with set weapons and others with loadouts
Yes, they changed it to have an EMP effect on vehicles to make them less dominant on maps because back then nobody spawned with Plasma Pistols and Stickies, not to mention there were only a couple on the map.
No loadouts and set loadout gametypes are somewhat expected as some gametypes need loadouts to work properly, like Invasion. Selection between two starting weapons, the BR and Carbine, is also somewhat expected as it is a reasonable and balanced choice. Custom loadouts however, are simply out of the question as they cause a multitude of balancing issues and create an unpredictable element in the game.
> > > > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
> > >
> > > Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
> >
> > <mark>Because there’s no reason to change how the gun works</mark>, when <mark>it makes far more sense to get rid of custom loadouts altogether due to the large number of problems they cause.</mark>
>
> Didn’t they do that to add the EMP function
>
> Or have different gametypes with set weapons and others with loadouts
Yes, the EMP function was added, and now it’s an iconic aspect of the weapon that shouldn’t go.
Loadouts are a mechanic that need to disappear from Halo. Halo is an arena shooter. Anything that separates one player from another needs to be fought for and earned on the map.
Keep loadouts for SPOPS/Firefight, but that’s it.
> > > > > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
> > > >
> > > > Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
> > >
> > > <mark>Because there’s no reason to change how the gun works</mark>, when <mark>it makes far more sense to get rid of custom loadouts altogether due to the large number of problems they cause.</mark>
> >
> > Didn’t they do that to add the EMP function
> >
> > Or have different gametypes with set weapons and others with loadouts
>
> Yes, they changed it to have an EMP effect on vehicles to make them less dominant on maps because back then nobody spawned with Plasma Pistols and Stickies, not to mention there were only a couple on the map.
>
> No loadouts and set loadout gametypes are somewhat expected as some gametypes need loadouts to work properly, like Invasion. Selection between two starting weapons, the BR and Carbine, is also somewhat expected as it is a reasonable and balanced choice. Custom loadouts however, are simply out of the question as they cause a multitude of balancing issues and create an unpredictable element in the game.
Personal Loadouts do indeed create a series of unpredictable elements in their current state, but those elements CAN BE ISOLATED. By this, I mean removing Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities, and the “gimmicked” sidearms (Plasma Pistol/Boltshot). I also think the long-ranged precision rifles (DMR/LR) should be removed from loadouts (instead placed on-map), due to their extraordinary effective range discouraging map movement and giving the automatics little chance to challenge them (an AR can at least land shots on a BR user at mid-range). I don’t see a big problem with allowing The choice of grenades, so long as players don’t spawn with an EMP-capable weapon and can only spawn with one of either grenade type. The “stickies” themselves weren’t so much the problem as the EMP and amount of grenades were (made worse by the Grenadier armor mod).
While I admit the CE PP would be a step in the right direction, I don’t quite like the concept of spawning with a chargeable loadout weapon (as well as the fact this could be used similarly to the Boltshot; overcharge at close range and clean up with a melee). I’d prefer to see a new Covenant sidearm designed to truly be a different-but-equal counterpart to the Magnum. I’ve said this in numerous posts concerning the Plasma Pistol’s needed removal from loadouts, but I’ll say it again: a ‘Needle Pistol’ acting similarly to a miniature Needle Rifle from Halo Reach.
> Personal Loadouts do indeed create a series of unpredictable elements in their current state, but those elements CAN BE ISOLATED. By this, I mean removing Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities, and the “gimmicked” sidearms (Plasma Pistol/Boltshot). I also think the long-ranged precision rifles (DMR/LR) should be removed from loadouts (instead placed on-map), due to their extraordinary effective range discouraging map movement and giving the automatics little chance to challenge them (an AR can at least land shots on a BR user at mid-range). I don’t see a big problem with allowing The choice of grenades, so long as players don’t spawn with an EMP-capable weapon and can only spawn with one of either grenade type. The “stickies” themselves weren’t so much the problem as the EMP and amount of grenades were (made worse by the Grenadier armor mod).
>
> While I admit the CE PP would be a step in the right direction, I don’t quite like the concept of spawning with a chargeable loadout weapon (as well as the fact this could be used similarly to the Boltshot; overcharge at close range and clean up with a melee). I’d prefer to see a new Covenant sidearm designed to truly be a different-but-equal counterpart to the Magnum. I’ve said this in numerous posts concerning the Plasma Pistol’s needed removal from loadouts, but I’ll say it again: a ‘Needle Pistol’ acting similarly to a miniature Needle Rifle from Halo Reach.
Long range weapons like the DMR and LR would need to be out, but automatics like the AR would need to go too. They behave completely different than the mid-close ranged BR and CC. Even though all the automatics in Halo 4 are repetitive and differ little in performance they would be unbalanced as a choice.
The problem with the choice of grenades is again that they are unpredictable and that every grenade behaves differently. Limiting players to one grenade off spawn does not fix this issue, and if they are still allowed to spawn with a Sticky that does not fix the issue of vehicles being more vulnerable and people constantly suicide-sticking. Would it be more difficult for players to destroy vehicles by limiting the sticky #? Not really since they could just pick them up off dead bodies that also spawned with them, or around the map where they would need to more nade spawns since players start with less grenades to decrease “spamming” off spawn.
So, you want another Covenant pistol that’s a remodeled Magnum, but makes people explode in pink mist when they die from body shots?
> > Personal Loadouts do indeed create a series of unpredictable elements in their current state, but those elements CAN BE ISOLATED. By this, I mean removing Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities, and the “gimmicked” sidearms (Plasma Pistol/Boltshot). I also think the long-ranged precision rifles (DMR/LR) should be removed from loadouts (instead placed on-map), due to their extraordinary effective range discouraging map movement and giving the automatics little chance to challenge them (an AR can at least land shots on a BR user at mid-range). I don’t see a big problem with allowing The choice of grenades, so long as players don’t spawn with an EMP-capable weapon and can only spawn with one of either grenade type. The “stickies” themselves weren’t so much the problem as the EMP and amount of grenades were (made worse by the Grenadier armor mod).
> >
> > While I admit the CE PP would be a step in the right direction, I don’t quite like the concept of spawning with a chargeable loadout weapon (as well as the fact this could be used similarly to the Boltshot; overcharge at close range and clean up with a melee). I’d prefer to see a new Covenant sidearm designed to truly be a different-but-equal counterpart to the Magnum. I’ve said this in numerous posts concerning the Plasma Pistol’s needed removal from loadouts, but I’ll say it again: a ‘Needle Pistol’ acting similarly to a miniature Needle Rifle from Halo Reach.
>
> Long range weapons like the DMR and LR would need to be out, but automatics like the AR would need to go too. They behave completely different than the mid-close ranged BR and CC. Even though all the automatics in Halo 4 are repetitive and differ little in performance they would be unbalanced as a choice.
>
> The problem with the choice of grenades is again that they are unpredictable and that every grenade behaves differently. Limiting players to one grenade off spawn does not fix this issue, and if they are still allowed to spawn with a Sticky that does not fix the issue of vehicles being more vulnerable and people constantly suicide-sticking. Would it be more difficult for players to destroy vehicles by limiting the sticky #? Not really since they could just pick them up off dead bodies that also spawned with them, or around the map where they would need to more nade spawns since players start with less grenades to decrease “spamming” off spawn.
>
>
> So, you want another Covenant pistol that’s a remodeled Magnum, but makes people explode in pink mist when they die from body shots?
You do realize the Magnum kills in 3 body shots, right? Same at the BR, DMR, and even the Needle Rifle (the super combine is essentially just a visual effect and was most likely added because the Needler had it). Besides, the number of shots to super combine for this sidearm isn’t set in stone to be 3, and there’s no good reason not to include the visual effect.
Again, just because the automatic behave differently than the precision rifles doesn’t mean they cant be balanced as equals. They have nearly the same effective range, but engagements can be varied within the spectrum of short- to mid-range, and so one can triumph over the other.
The reason Plasma Grenades were such a popular/prevalent choice of grenades is due to the PP/PG combo against vehicles and the fact that they had nearly the same effective blast radius. The two grenade types should have different but equally useful functions, such as: Frags (able to ricochet more effectively, larger blast radius), Plasma (able to stick, but noticeably smaller blast radius).
> > > Personal Loadouts do indeed create a series of unpredictable elements in their current state, but those elements CAN BE ISOLATED. By this, I mean removing Tactical Packages/Support Upgrades, Armor Abilities, and the “gimmicked” sidearms (Plasma Pistol/Boltshot). I also think the long-ranged precision rifles (DMR/LR) should be removed from loadouts (instead placed on-map), due to their extraordinary effective range discouraging map movement and giving the automatics little chance to challenge them (an AR can at least land shots on a BR user at mid-range). I don’t see a big problem with allowing The choice of grenades, so long as players don’t spawn with an EMP-capable weapon and can only spawn with one of either grenade type. The “stickies” themselves weren’t so much the problem as the EMP and amount of grenades were (made worse by the Grenadier armor mod).
> > >
> > > While I admit the CE PP would be a step in the right direction, I don’t quite like the concept of spawning with a chargeable loadout weapon (as well as the fact this could be used similarly to the Boltshot; overcharge at close range and clean up with a melee). I’d prefer to see a new Covenant sidearm designed to truly be a different-but-equal counterpart to the Magnum. I’ve said this in numerous posts concerning the Plasma Pistol’s needed removal from loadouts, but I’ll say it again: a ‘Needle Pistol’ acting similarly to a miniature Needle Rifle from Halo Reach.
> >
> > Long range weapons like the DMR and LR would need to be out, but automatics like the AR would need to go too. They behave completely different than the mid-close ranged BR and CC. Even though all the automatics in Halo 4 are repetitive and differ little in performance they would be unbalanced as a choice.
> >
> > The problem with the choice of grenades is again that they are unpredictable and that every grenade behaves differently. Limiting players to one grenade off spawn does not fix this issue, and if they are still allowed to spawn with a Sticky that does not fix the issue of vehicles being more vulnerable and people constantly suicide-sticking. Would it be more difficult for players to destroy vehicles by limiting the sticky #? Not really since they could just pick them up off dead bodies that also spawned with them, or around the map where they would need to more nade spawns since players start with less grenades to decrease “spamming” off spawn.
> >
> >
> > So, you want another Covenant pistol that’s a remodeled Magnum, but makes people explode in pink mist when they die from body shots?
>
> You do realize the Magnum kills in 3 body shots, right? Same at the BR, DMR, and even the Needle Rifle (the super combine is essentially just a visual effect and was most likely added because the Needler had it). Besides, the number of shots to super combine for this sidearm isn’t set in stone to be 3, and there’s no good reason not to include the visual effect.
>
> Again, just because the automatic behave differently than the precision rifles doesn’t mean they cant be balanced as equals. They have nearly the same effective range, but engagements can be varied within the spectrum of short- to mid-range, and so one can triumph over the other.
>
> The reason Plasma Grenades were such a popular/prevalent choice of grenades is due to the PP/PG combo against vehicles and the fact that they had nearly the same effective blast radius. The two grenade types should have different but equally useful functions, such as: Frags (able to ricochet more effectively, larger blast radius), Plasma (able to stick, but noticeably smaller blast radius).
Okay, so it would be a Covenant Magnum that shoots needles that create pink mist after so many body shots that may or may not be equal to the Magnum. Is this supposed to shoot faster or slower or be unique in some way, because I’m not seeing what makes it behave any different other than visuals.
Close range is not nearly the same as Mid range. The reason why something like choosing between BR/CC would work is that when balanced properly: they have around the same kill time, they have the same range, they have the same role, but they accomplish the same role in different ways. The CC does less damage per shot, but fires faster; the BR does more damage per shot, but fires slower. This is the basic difference between the 2.
The differences between the automatics and the BR/CC are so many that they aren’t predictable or controllable. In a game where you can choose between AR and BR, if you see someone spawn and run for cover before you can identify their weapon, you’re going to need to approach the situation entirely differently depending on if he has an AR or a BR, but you have no way of knowing. This means the player has to essentially roll the dice, and gamble on if he will walk out of the fight alive, instead of the fight depending on the skill and ability of the player.
I don’t know what to say to you if you think that a reduction in blast-radius would solve the issue of players being able to spawn with anti-vehicular grenades drastically diminishing the power and purpose of vehicles.
I would suggest replacing the Plasma Pistol with the Plasma Rifle as the covenant secondary loadout weapon. The Plasma Pistol would become a map pickup.
I agree with the CE Plasma pistol 100%. In fact I bring this idea up whenever I can around here.
Now if they were to remove load outs and go back to the weapon system Bungie crafted then placing the PP on the map would be fine.
But the fact is that 343 have turned the entire system on it’s head and have made their own system that is more than likely going to stick around (Though I’m not saying that you guys should stop asking for Bungies way to come back, if that’s what you you’re entitled to that opinion). However I like load outs and 343’s system and think that it’s a lot more neat and identifiable.
343’s weapon system has three kinds of weapons. Primaries, Side arms and Power weapons.
With 343’s system the only weapons that aren’t available in load outs are Power weapons and are only found on the map unless you’re playing a special game type like Flood.
The PP isn’t a power weapon but by placing it as a map pick up you’re placing it as if it were a power weapon. It just doesn’t fit. The PP is a side arm end of story and should be treated like the other side arms.
If it’s placed on the map the PP will be a weapon that’s out of place. Maybe they could remove the side arm option in load outs so that every side arm will be treated like the PP and be placed on the map.
But expanding on the side arms in load outs is a lot more fun. We could have the SMG, Plasma rifle and that Needle pistol idea as side arms in load outs.
Plus it’s a brilliant excuse to bring the Grenade launcher back. Maybe they could add some new power weapons with an EMP function while they’re at as well. Notice how I say power weapons? Because that’s how 343’s system works, if it’s not a power weapon it’s in load outs.
And there’s the fact that a CE PP will be a lot less difficult for commendation kills. Assuming that Halo 5’s commendations will be similar to Halo 4s.
Does anybody get the gist of what I’m saying? Doesn’t matter I just want Awsumsauce1 to know that I support this.
So a Needle Pistol that functions almost exactly like the Magnum, only a slightly slower rate of fire.
5 consecutive hits on a target and the rounds explode causing an EMP.
That way, you need to hit a moving vehicle 5 time before it will EMP.
> I would suggest replacing the Plasma Pistol with the Plasma Rifle as the covenant secondary loadout weapon. The Plasma Pistol would become a map pickup.
Actually that isn’t a bad idea…
> So a Needle Pistol that functions almost exactly like the Magnum, only a slightly slower rate of fire.
>
> 5 consecutive hits on a target and the rounds explode causing an EMP.
>
> That way, you need to hit a moving vehicle 5 time before it will EMP.
No, not an EMP. A super combine (pink explosion caused by several needles in an unshielded target). Having a sidearm with a gimmicked ability that actually affects how it is used, like having an overcharge mode or EMP function, is not a very good idea (as seen through the PP and Boltshot). The super combine is merely a visual effect, and so wouldn’t give the Needle Pistol any unfair secondary like being especially effective against vehicles or being capable of a one-shot-kill.
As for being too similar to the Magnum, I’ll point out that RoF and damage per shot are the primary defining differences between the BR and Carbine, so I don’t see why it’s a problem to go the same route with balancing/equalizing the Magnum and Needle Pistol.
Remove it from Loadout option and only have it available on Map.
FIXED.
And you could then increase the Lockon and amount of time Vehicles are disabled.
Having PP is current loadouts ruins the use of Vehicles.
> > > Or plasma pistols should simply be removed from loadouts. Along with plasma grenades.
> >
> > Why should it be able to EMP? and it would function differently from the Magnum without destroying vehicle combat, I see no reason why the CE PP can’t return
>
> Because there’s no reason to change how the gun works, when it makes far more sense to get rid of custom loadouts altogether due to the large number of problems they cause.
I really don’t see how Custom Loadouts cause that many problems if we reduce them to an AR, SR, BR, or CC as a primary and an SMG, Plasma Rifle, and Magnum as a secondary. Also remove Perks and the option to select your grenades/AA.
It wouldn’t shatter balance anymore if we did that.
> I don’t know what to say to you if you think that a reduction in blast-radius would solve the issue of players being able to spawn with anti-vehicular grenades drastically diminishing the power and purpose of vehicles.
Who says that Plasma Grenades have to be considered as “anti-vehicular grenades”? If they reduced their damage output on vehicles, then what would make them such a bad thing to have in personal loadouts?
The blast-radius comment was in reference to the fact that Plasma grenades are about the same as the Frags in terms of damage (in my experience) and also have the ability to stick. This is unbalanced, but can be changed, as can their over-effectiveness against vehicles. They would still be useful/relevant because they can stick (rewarding skillful tosses), but can only kill if a Spartan is stuck or very close to the grenade. Also, increasing the amount of “plasma sticks” on a Warthog to destroy it would be an effective way to balance them in regards to vehicular combat.