What tier would you place Ancient Humanity in?

Based on them only having around 20,000 worlds across 1,000 star systems compared to the Forerunner’s 3 million worlds, it seems kind of like they are Tier 2 rather than tier 1. The qualifications for tier 2 seem to be the ability to create life, world building and mastery of slipspace Considering the Forerunner’s mastery of slipspace outclasses theirs and they have shown no real world building on the scale of the Forerunners, it kind of seems to me they’re a hight tier 2 rather than tier 1. Thoughts?

The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.

According to Halo wikia, ancient humanity belonged to Tier 1: Word Builders. And yes, Webb with II Bs, you’re right.

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> The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.

Why? Because they had weapons that could harm the Forerunners? Humanity, a Tier 3 species competed with the Tier 2 Covenant for decades. +The Forerunners were demilitarized, and the Humans were capitalizing on the Precursor structures for defense. The Forerunners ability to shut down their ability to travel with slipspace, contradicts them being Tier 1 imo.

Seems like a question for the catalog

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> > The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.
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> Why? Because they had weapons that could harm the Forerunners? Humanity, a Tier 3 species competed with the Tier 2 Covenant for decades. +The Forerunners were demilitarized, and the Humans were capitalizing on the Precursor structures for defense. The Forerunners ability to shut down their ability to travel with slipspace, contradicts them being Tier 1 imo.
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> Seems like a question for the catalog

Yes, But if we had fought the covies on that level for… like 1000 years… we would be dead. The war was still an utter curb-stomp in the covies favor. The human-forerunner was would have been a “fair” fight if the flood had not butchered the humans. The forerunners were more advanced in some areas, the humans in others. The forerunners just happened to understand slip space a bit better.

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> > > The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.
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> >
> > Why? Because they had weapons that could harm the Forerunners? Humanity, a Tier 3 species competed with the Tier 2 Covenant for decades. +The Forerunners were demilitarized, and the Humans were capitalizing on the Precursor structures for defense. The Forerunners ability to shut down their ability to travel with slipspace, contradicts them being Tier 1 imo.
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> > Seems like a question for the catalog
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> Yes, But if we had fought the covies on that level for… like 1000 years… we would be dead. The war was still an utter curb-stomp in the covies favor. The human-forerunner was would have been a “fair” fight if the flood had not butchered the humans. The forerunners were more advanced in some areas, the humans in others. The forerunners just happened to understand slip space a bit better.

Yes but the Covenant Empire was highly militarized and used to conquering other species unlike the demilitarized Forerunners. Additionally Ancient Humanity has 20,000 worlds, Modern Humanity has under 1,000 of course a war is going to take far longer. Additionally, modern humans have more advanced AIs than the Covenant, and have technologies that are more advanced than Covenant ones according to Zuka from The Flood doesn’t make Humanity Tier 2.

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> > > > The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.
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> > >
> > > Why? Because they had weapons that could harm the Forerunners? Humanity, a Tier 3 species competed with the Tier 2 Covenant for decades. +The Forerunners were demilitarized, and the Humans were capitalizing on the Precursor structures for defense. The Forerunners ability to shut down their ability to travel with slipspace, contradicts them being Tier 1 imo.
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> > > Seems like a question for the catalog
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> >
> > Yes, But if we had fought the covies on that level for… like 1000 years… we would be dead. The war was still an utter curb-stomp in the covies favor. The human-forerunner was would have been a “fair” fight if the flood had not butchered the humans. The forerunners were more advanced in some areas, the humans in others. The forerunners just happened to understand slip space a bit better.
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> Yes but the Covenant Empire was highly militarized and used to conquering other species unlike the demilitarized Forerunners. Additionally Ancient Humanity has 20,000 worlds, Modern Humanity has under 1,000 of course a war is going to take far longer. Additionally, modern humans have more advanced AIs than the Covenant, and have technologies that are more advanced than Covenant ones according to Zuka from The Flood doesn’t make Humanity Tier 2.

Except Forerunners demilitarised themselves after the war with humanity not before.

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> > The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.
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> Seems like a question for the catalog

How? The Forerunner saga explicitly paints that idea with Didact himself even suggesting Humans may have beaten them if they actually intended to.not to mention Forthencho expressing his spacial expertise in Primordium.

They were Tier 1.

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> Yes but the Covenant Empire was highly militarized and used to conquering other species unlike the demilitarized Forerunners. Additionally Ancient Humanity has 20,000 worlds, Modern Humanity has under 1,000 of course a war is going to take far longer. Additionally, modern humans have more advanced AIs than the Covenant, and have technologies that are more advanced than Covenant ones according to Zuka from The Flood doesn’t make Humanity Tier 2.

What exactly makes you think the Forerunner were “demilitarized”? They had a whole rate dedicated to warfare, and the Builders weren’t exactly shy about putting out more and more powerful weapons. The Forerunners were anything but demilitarized.

Now, addressing the topic at hand, I’d personally say ancient Humanity were probably something like Tier 1.5. They were certainly well above Tier 2, capable of slipspace jumps that rivals the ability of the Forerunners, and their technology was well beyond something like the Covenant. However, this is no evidence to suggest that they were world builders or capable of creating life like the Forerunners. We don’t even know much about the AI used by ancient Humans.

Sure, Humanity held out for 1,000 years against the Forerunners, but they were not alone, and they took ever advantage they could (using a Precursor world as their capital, learning from Forerunner technology, etc). Ancient Humanity was highly advanced, but I wouldn’t say they were quite on the level of the Forerunners. So, I’d say Tier 1.5, or Tier 2 if we want to stay strict on the Tier system.

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> > > > > The fact that they could even compete with the Forerunners makes them Tier 1.
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> > > >
> > > > Why? Because they had weapons that could harm the Forerunners? Humanity, a Tier 3 species competed with the Tier 2 Covenant for decades. +The Forerunners were demilitarized, and the Humans were capitalizing on the Precursor structures for defense. The Forerunners ability to shut down their ability to travel with slipspace, contradicts them being Tier 1 imo.
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> > > > Seems like a question for the catalog
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> > >
> > > Yes, But if we had fought the covies on that level for… like 1000 years… we would be dead. The war was still an utter curb-stomp in the covies favor. The human-forerunner was would have been a “fair” fight if the flood had not butchered the humans. The forerunners were more advanced in some areas, the humans in others. The forerunners just happened to understand slip space a bit better.
> >
> >
> > Yes but the Covenant Empire was highly militarized and used to conquering other species unlike the demilitarized Forerunners. Additionally Ancient Humanity has 20,000 worlds, Modern Humanity has under 1,000 of course a war is going to take far longer. Additionally, modern humans have more advanced AIs than the Covenant, and have technologies that are more advanced than Covenant ones according to Zuka from The Flood doesn’t make Humanity Tier 2.
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> Except Forerunners demilitarised themselves after the war with humanity not before.

I meant they seemed to have less of an emphasis on military than the Covenant or even Ancient Humanity. Either way I’ll concede that point. You still have failed to address my points about Humanity having more advanced tech than the Covenant, but still overall being considered a Tier 3 species.

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> > Yes but the Covenant Empire was highly militarized and used to conquering other species unlike the demilitarized Forerunners. Additionally Ancient Humanity has 20,000 worlds, Modern Humanity has under 1,000 of course a war is going to take far longer. Additionally, modern humans have more advanced AIs than the Covenant, and have technologies that are more advanced than Covenant ones according to Zuka from The Flood doesn’t make Humanity Tier 2.
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> What exactly makes you think the Forerunner were “demilitarized”? They had a whole rate dedicated to warfare, and the Builders weren’t exactly shy about putting out more and more powerful weapons. The Forerunners were anything but demilitarized.
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> Now, addressing the topic at hand, I’d personally say ancient Humanity were probably something like Tier 1.5. They were certainly well above Tier 2, capable of slipspace jumps that rivals the ability of the Forerunners, and their technology was well beyond something like the Covenant. However, this is no evidence to suggest that they were world builders or capable of creating life like the Forerunners. We don’t even know much about the AI used by ancient Humans.
>
> Sure, Humanity held out for 1,000 years against the Forerunners, but they were not alone, and they took every advantage they could (using a Precursor world as their capital, learning from Forerunner technology, etc). Ancient Humanity was highly advanced, but I wouldn’t say they were quite on the level of the Forerunners. So, I’d say Tier 1.5, or Tier 2 if we want to stay strict on the Tier system.

Agreed. Humanity seems to consistently be on that border between tiers. Modern humanity seems to be 2.5, and Ancient Humanity at 1.5 but on a strict tier system 3 and 2 respectively. Although as far as world building goes, lets not forget the Covenant did create massive structures like High Charity, not quite world building, but still very impressive.

It’s hard to say, because the Forerunner trilogy didn’t go into too much detail about Ancient Human society; it simply told us that they encountered the Flood, went to war against the Forerunners, lost and were de-evolved, and were chosen to be the inheritors of the Mantle by the Precursors.
What we do know, is that the Forerunners inhabited 3 million worlds, had a powerful military, a great understanding of slipspace travel, and had a massive industry, as evidenced by their ability to quickly and efficiently build mega structures like Halo, the Ark and the Capital.
As for the Humans, we know that they had very powerful weapons tech, as the Didact said that they had built weapons with which they had no defense. We don’t know about their population levels, or the level of their industry, but since they were content with so few worlds ( in comparison to their rivals, the Forerunners, whose territory is 150 times larger), I would say their population was very high, as was their industry.
But, I think that their military was the only thing they had going for them, the only thing that surpassed the Forerunners. It is implied by Chakas that Ancient Humans conquered other races, so for them to develop a powerful military makes sense if they were a conquering civilization.
As for their tier level, I’d say they were at the lower level tier 1, while the Forerunners were at upper level tier 1. Like I said, the Forerunner trilogy didn’t go into much detail, and I think the reason for this is that those books are more exposition dumps, rather than actual stories. Or at least, that’s the impression I got. Is it just me.

Just so we are all on the same page Forerunners have been Tier 1 for several dozen eons. During the Precursors reign they were Tier 1 later evolving into Tier 0 and were Tier 1 for over 50,000 years prior to the events of Cryptum. Even if you want to put Ancient Humans as an emerging Tier 1 species (which is absurd but whatever) the fact they could have beat a species who was Tier 1 for so long if they wanted to speaks for itself. Let me again claryfing that the Forerunner Saga made it painstakingly clear how much damage the Humans caused Forerunners yet they were only running from the Flood and not waging all out war.