What this 'competitive' argument is all about...

Games Other Halo
1

EDIT: Since writing this way to early in the morning I neglected to leave key parts of the argument out, rewriting this to make it fit better.

What this ‘competitive’ argument is all about, a Phantom -Yoink!-. That’s what this call for 1-50 ranks is about and all this talk about ‘rewarding skill.’ Don’t get me wrong, I play to get epic head shots and awesome victories as much as the next guy but the system itself is flawed for this very reason. It is the desire for the reward that is the ultimate failure of this system.

Here is the reality. We don’t know anything about the competitive nature of Halo 4. The True Skill System will probably be there, sorting out good matches for everyone involved. There will be an array of options for all kinds of players with custom games. Finally there will probably be some kind of competitive playlist, maybe multiple, for those who only care about showing off their skill.

What this all means is that 343 is looking to get as many people as possible happy with Halo 4. Does that mean that it won’t take ‘skill’ as I have heard many wing on about? Of course not, even Reach required skill just not the skills that the MLG community and other competitive groups like them had developed since 2004 with Halo 2. A system of timing respawn of weapons, finding map short cuts and memorizing spawn points. Since this changed there have been a lot of complaints about the changes made but Reach still requires skills, it just forces players to change up their play style from what they have gotten used to for quite a long time.

So we come to what this is really about, a demand for a visible “I’m better then you” system that rewards countless hours of play to show off to others and put down those who aren’t as skilled as you are. Do I mind in principle, not really, who cares what rank you are in a video game? But for many this desire for a rank is like a phantom -Yoink!-, just like a fancy car, big house or flashy clothing, something to show off to make up for something else lacking. This desire in it self breaks the system set up for competitive gameplay.

Hear me out, you want to play a game where you feel challenged yet rewarded by beating a worthy opponent right? Well not everyone feels that way, I remember Halo 2 and 3 where people were boosting stats to get high levels to gloat while others were de-ranking in order to stay low and slaughter lower levels. These kind of people ruin that experience by getting into games and honestly not caring for a fun and challenging experience but for the glory of the higher rank. This not only ruins your fun but destroys the purpose of the rank system in the first place, placing players in matches with others of similar skill. What you have in the end is a system that only the top ranks enjoy, leaving those who are lower level to fend for themselves with boosters and de-rankers ruining games.

Now the point I am making is simple, the 1-50 system desired is based on a desire for recognition, to be known as a skilled player. Many desire this recognition and will do anything they can to short cut their way through while still others will intentionally stay low in order to continue to have their own meaningful experience. All of this ends up with a system that not only doesn’t recognize skill but defeats its own purpose of matching players up to have challenging and rewarding experiences. What is needed is what Reach has right now, maybe tweaked though I personally have had no problems with it. A system that runs under the game to make that same experience with out the silly phantom -Yoink!- temptation that ruins experiences.

2

Ridiculous…scoreboards in games are no different, people aim to get the highest score, its been in games since the beginning of time

1-50 rank is just your own personal scoreboard, your trying to reach the top ‘50’

nothing to do with showing off, especially when the majority of players will never hit 50, me included

if you don’t like ranking or care about it, there’s a nice social playlist you can play in|

at least let the competitive players have there own little space, to kick each others -Yoink- in

3

Are you insinuating that all players who are good at Halo lack something else in their lives? facepalm

4

> Ridiculous…scoreboards in games are no different, people aim to get the highest score, its been in games since the beginning of time
>
> 1-50 rank is just your own personal scoreboard, your trying to reach the top ‘50’
>
> nothing to do with showing off, especially when the majority of players will never hit 50, me included
>
> if you don’t like ranking or care about it, there’s a nice social playlist you can play in|
>
> at least let the competitive players have there own little space, to kick each others -Yoink!- in

THIS!! People didn’t play pac-man a million times when they were younger just for fun, they did it because they wanted to get that new high score! Someone to strive for! Something to say to friends hey look at dat! (Weird example but hey)

Its a goal, everything requires goals to make people strive to earn them and feel accomplishment, in Reach the only reason I gave half a damn about rank was because I needed rank x to unlock the helmet I wanted!

If people don’t want it play social!

5

> Ridiculous…scoreboards in games are no different, people aim to get the highest score, its been in games since the beginning of time
>
> 1-50 rank is just your own personal scoreboard, your trying to reach the top ‘50’
>
> nothing to do with showing off, especially when the majority of players will never hit 50, me included
>
> if you don’t like ranking or care about it, there’s a nice social playlist you can play in|
>
> at least let the competitive players have there own little space, to kick each others -Yoink!- in

Probably the most logical non 50 post I’ve ever seen. I envy you, kind sir.

@OP

Just because you don’t like being challenged doesn’t mean there’s any reason to take it away from us. Reaches truskill system is -Yoink-, even though i know it is there. You just don’t get matched up correctly, i play people that are absolutely horrid even after i win 100 matches in a row. And the 1-50 not only proved to be a better matching system, but the reward was immense for me and many others. I don’t care for a ranking that shows how much I’ve played, just like your afraid to have a number that represents how bad / good you are at the game. The thing is, a ranking doesn’t hurt you whatsoever, it’s only beneficial to those who like it.

You can have your flashy little badge that says you’ve played for 100 hours. And I can have a number next to my tag that represents my skill level, both can live in harmony. The fact that you want it taken away for no other reason than the fact that we want it is disgusting.

6

I’ve wanted to reach rank 40 in Halo 3 for a long while in Halo 3, which I did.
it was too late for me to get my 50 in H3 because every high level game now is laggy.

On topic, this rank was my goal in the game, because I wanted to be at least 80% of the max rank, which I did achieve.

It made the game very fun to play to me and it made me come back to the ranked playlist every once in a while.

it was also a bit about who was better between me and my 4 other friends IRL.

we had tons of fun b****ing about that the other friend was lower than the higher friend, but of course we didn’t mean to hurt each other’s feelings by calling each other terrible or badkid, we were just messing around, while still having some intensive to play for.

but that’s just my FUN experience with 1-50.

7

> we had tons of fun b****ing about that the other friend was lower than the higher friend, but of course we didn’t mean to hurt each other’s feelings by calling each other terrible or badkid, we were just messing around, while still having some intensive to play for.

But it doesn’t just stay in the friendship circles, does it?

Look, I know I can be quite anti-MLG and anti-rankings, but there’s a reason for it. As I’ve said in the past, stereotypes always have a basis, and this is no different.

There’s nothing wrong with striving for a higher rank. It’s a good thing to keep trying to improve, and I’ve never had any complaints with those of you out there that are just hunting for a higher ranking as part of your regular game. That’s fine; you guys can go get a soda until I’m done.

What I don’t enjoy are those of you out there that then abuse the game to rank up faster, or throw your stats around as though a higher rank in a video game somehow makes you a better person. I don’t like the idea of my enjoyment being spoiled because of a few people going nuts over a number; it’s petty, childish and a waste of everyone’s time.

Boosters and stat-flamers have turned me against ranking. I’ve no issues with people being better than me at all - but if you’re going to cheat the game to tip the odds in your favour, and then sneer at me because I have a lower rank than you… honestly, you don’t deserve what you have.

8

> Ridiculous…scoreboards in games are no different, people aim to get the highest score, its been in games since the beginning of time

And it should have died with arcades in the 90’s

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> > Ridiculous…scoreboards in games are no different, people aim to get the highest score, its been in games since the beginning of time
> >
> > 1-50 rank is just your own personal scoreboard, your trying to reach the top ‘50’
> >
> > nothing to do with showing off, especially when the majority of players will never hit 50, me included
> >
> > if you don’t like ranking or care about it, there’s a nice social playlist you can play in|
> >
> > at least let the competitive players have there own little space, to kick each others -Yoink!- in
>
> <mark>THIS!! People didn’t play pac-man a million times when they were younger just for fun, they did it because they wanted to get that new high score! Someone to strive for! Something to say to friends hey look at dat! (Weird example but hey)</mark>
> Its a goal, everything requires goals to make people strive to earn them and feel accomplishment, in Reach the only reason I gave half a damn about rank was because I needed rank x to unlock the helmet I wanted!
>
> If people don’t want it play social!

THAT IS EPIC

SIR

JUST EPIC

10

By OP’s logic, sports teams shouldn’t have leagues.

FacePalmDeskWallCeilingFan

11

1-50 is there to ensure that guests don’t get matched up with mlg pros in the ‘competitive’ playlist.

seewhatididthere? Reach says Infection is ‘competitive’ LOL

Anyway 1-50 had its faults such as boosters etc but at least it ensured that a player like me, a good player, would not get matched against some noob who has just picked up the game when I went into Team Slayer.

Additionally it gave me a goal to look forward to. But what made it different from Reach’s goal was that I felt unique. Not everyone could get past 45. I knew I was a good player. It presented a challenge.

One of Reach’s biggest faults was that it never presented a satisfying goal to good players. You could be an incredible halo player in the world yet only play a few days a week and get to eclipse. However some guy could sit in FF all day and get to Inheritor.

I struggle to see why people can’t grasp this simple comcept. Reach alienated both extremes of its population. Noobs were destoyed by good players when all they wanted to do was play against other players looking for fun. Good players never felt a sense of competition when pub stomping. It’s that simple.

12

> -snip-

The issue with Reach’s matchmaking system wasn’t that it lacked any sort of numerical system - merely, that the algorithms for matching up players of a similar skill level weren’t as accurate as they were in Halo 3. Because of this, average players (such as myself) get destroyed by full-party boosters, clans and so forth.

I’m hoping that the system is fixed for Halo 4. I don’t feel that I’ll be going into Ranked playlists an awful lot unless they’re a requirement for an unlockable (and I shall be extremely displeased if they are), but likewise, I don’t want to be facing the same issues in BTB as I have in Halo Reach.

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> Boosters and stat-flamers have turned me against ranking. I’ve no issues with people being better than me at all - but if you’re going to cheat the game to tip the odds in your favour, and then sneer at me because I have a lower rank than you… honestly, you don’t deserve what you have.

But there were plenty of boosters in the progression-style ranking system. So many people boosted for credits so they don’t have to spend 200 in-game days playing. And it was all just to get that Inheritor or Forerunner or Nova. I never had a problem with boosters in the 1-50. I have actually never played against or with someone who was boosting. That tells me that it wasn’t as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be. People will boost any ranking system, that is a given.

The numbers are there as shiny little trophies for you or your friends. It can be for bragging to your friends or just trying to measurably get better. You can’t actually tell if you are getting better at Reach. All you can tell is how long you have played.

You really need to let go of this hatred that you have for anything competitive. There are always going to be bad apples. There are “casuals” who are complete and utter d-bags and there are “competitives” who are complete and utter d-bags. I have had plenty of bad experiences on both sides.

A little OT, but…MLG is trying to get rid of the bad reputation that they have. But it is people who can’t let go of the past who are stopping this from happening. People who have had a bad experience(s) and refuse to believe anything has changed. People do change. I have heard more “Good Games” in the MLG playlist than I have in Team Slayer or Living Dead or BTB.

14

I guess we should ditch all competitive sports because some players use steroids and cheat. lol

Why do only the casual bad players think their fun should be everybody’s fun?

Seriously after cramming all the tryhards into social playlist and consequently getting ROFL stomped 24/7, you would think you casuals would want us to have our own playlist.

You know what? It’s you casuals that have the e-peen problem. It really is only bad players that hate ranked playlist. I checked.

15

Go here and you’ll see what all the fuss is about. It really is necessary that a competitive ranking system is implemented. It doesn’t need to be 1-50, but similar or better.

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> Phantom -Yoink!-, that’s it. That’s what this call for 1-50 ranks is about and all this talk about ‘rewarding skill.’ Of course there needs to be some reason for players to come back to the game over and over again, but giving them some kind of smug sense of superiority isn’t a good way to approach that. Honestly the whole argument seems childish, “I want Halo 3 back or I will take my ball and go home!” competitive argument.

Judging by the way you describe ranks, and how you feel about it I would say you’re probably a major grade 2 highest rank of 34. Which means you aren’t good at the previous games, and people have probably rubbed that in your face.

That isn’t the ranking systems fault, It is the people or little kids with a god complexes fault. No need to take your frustration out on the best playlists in the game.

Besides it will give you incentive to get better so people aren’t holding a rank above your head.

> Here is the reality. We don’t know anything about the competitive nature of Halo 4. The True Skill System will probably be there, sorting out good matches for everyone involved. There will be an array of options for all kinds of players with custom games.

Reach has a wide array of so called “competitive” games, and none of them are competitive. They are built and work around the everyday player, and do not provide competitive games.

> What this all means is that 343 is looking to get as many people as possible happy with Halo 4. Does that mean that it won’t take ‘skill’ as I have heard many wing on about? Of course not, even Reach required skill just not the skills that the MLG community and others like them had developed since 2004 with Halo 2. So what this is really about seems to be a demand for a visible “I’m better then you” system that rewards countless hours of play to show off to others and put down those who aren’t as skilled as you are. It is quite literally a phantom -Yoink!-, just like a fancy car, big house or flashy clothing, something to show off to make up for something else lacking.

In a way you are correct, For some it is about being better than others, and having the highest achievement in game. Also once again this sounds more like you being upset that you do not have a “phantom -Yoink!-” as you put it.

Get better at the game, and stop complaining others who have been able to.

> Now I don’t want to insult anyone, I’m saying that this ‘showing off skill’ attitude is compensation for the time put into the game itself and maybe a lack of other things in the players life, but I wanted to confront those who are constantly calling for this system with what they are really asking for. Honestly, will you not buy the game if you don’t get a 1-50 rank or no load outs/customization options? If so what games are you going to turn to with this perfect system you are suggesting? Please tell us casual gamers why we should bow down to your requests when we are content with playing for fun with the addiction factor being the only reason to come back for more.

LOL! No one is asking anyone to bow down to our requests, and in all honesty we do not care what you do. You have over 30 social playlists in Reach, and we have 1 ranked (and its awful and you can not find games). We just want the same things you have been entitled to in our own environment like we used to.

If you don’t like ranked, If you do not like dealing with better players who hold it over your head either get better, or do not play ranked it is that simple.

17

> By OP’s logic, sports teams shouldn’t have leagues.
>
> FacePalmDeskWallCeilingFan

That’s nothing. I put my face on the Grill.

18

> There’s nothing wrong with striving for a higher rank. It’s a good thing to keep trying to improve, and I’ve never had any complaints with those of you out there that are just hunting for a higher ranking as part of your regular game. That’s fine; you guys can go get a soda until I’m done.
>
> What I don’t enjoy are those of you out there that then abuse the game to rank up faster, or throw your stats around as though a higher rank in a video game somehow makes you a better person. I don’t like the idea of my enjoyment being spoiled because of a few people going nuts over a number; it’s petty, childish and a waste of everyone’s time.
>
> Boosters and stat-flamers have turned me against ranking. I’ve no issues with people being better than me at all - but if you’re going to cheat the game to tip the odds in your favour, and then sneer at me because I have a lower rank than you… honestly, you don’t deserve what you have.

This is exactly what I am saying! I am a rather decent player when it comes to Halo, done plenty of ROFL stomping in my time, and you can take a look at my stats to see that I would be in the mid to high range of any competitive ranking system. I’ve also been an MLG supporter for a long time, I know several people involved with MLG productions behind the scenes. I have nothing against being competitive in a game, especially when I want to hear the ‘-Yoink-!’ cries through my headset as I trounce an enemy. However, making it the only purpose of a game is silly when it is still essentially a game and not a profession.

Here is what happens with a system like Halo 3’s. It’s supposed to make it so skill levels are sussed out and games more interesting and balanced for online play. But by giving this number to strive for many people will exploit to try and achieve that number and if they are exploiting during a game you are just trying to win in then it ruins your experience. It also forces players to play people their own skill, which a lot of people don’t want to do. So many will de-rank in order to trounce opponents thus again upsetting the balance in lower games and ruining games in which there is a de-ranker. This kind of system leads itself to getting exploited by people who are looking for glory rather then a competitive gaming experience, thus making the whole point of having the system irrelevant. Let me put it to you this way, would you like to be stuck in a party of people doing exploits for their own purpose? I know you competitive players would say no so why implement a system that will be opposite your own desires?

What I see when someone is pushing for a 1-50 style true skill system I don’t see someone supporting competitive gaming. I see a 12 year old kid who’s out to ruin an entertainment experience I paid money for, money I could have used to get a ton of beer and hung out with friends or took my significant other out on the town. I see a system that defeats its own purpose for existing.

Honestly this comic whole thing wraps up my point because as much as an argument is made for this kind of atmosphere it will always turn into people with lives vs people who’s life is the game.

> By OP’s logic, sports teams shouldn’t have leagues.
>
> FacePalmDeskWallCeilingFan

Most sports leagues are collections of teams that play a game professionally. This means they make money playing it, while you getting to rank 45 is done for fun. So, unless you are an MLG Pro, the competitive nature of a game is about as rewarding as winning state championship in a high school football team…minus the free trips, free food, trophies and the -Yoink!-…so you get nothing for being rank 45 other then being rank 45. By your logic sports teams should get nothing and do it for the pwnage like competitive gamers.

19

I just want to be paired with similarly skilled players. (To all those who are going to look at my K/D ratio, i am actually much better than that implies. Not great, but i am getting there.)

I hate getting stuck with a team where i can get 27-32 kills a match and still lose… Its irking.

20

OP’s post is everything wrong with the casuals view on things like ranking and competitiveness. People find it fun to increase their own skills on and to show it off on leaderboards and scoreboards. It’s just nowdays it’s not limited to an arcade machine of Centinpede, Street Fighter, Galaga etc. It’s literally the same thing, it’s just online now.

Sorry but flipping forge grids and suicide in matches isn’t fun to some. Others just have a different way and means to derive fun from their games. Some like doing the crazy forge stuff and having fun online while others like to rank up and play with similarly skilled players. It’s not wrong to have fun in video games but it’s wrong when someone elses fun is different from your own? (this applies to both camps btw)

Things need to change. Casuals attacking competitive players based on negative image of MLG and refusing any kind social interactions and competitive players (while doing the same things) are also not reaching out the lesser skill crowd and teaching them how to play at a higher level (not just MLG, but the game in general). Having contributing to the flames for one side, i can’t say i am proud of that, but i wont hide it either.

This is all bad and it needs to change.