What makes gameplay "fast"?

Games Halo Infinite
1

Before diving into the topic, it is kinda disappointing to see the halowaypoint is still filled with sprint discussions when there’s so much else to talk about. But I just wanted to shed a light on this a little so people can understand the other side better.

Anyway so when we talk about fast gameplay, it involves 3 things

  1. Perception
  2. Pace
  3. Speed

For a game to feel fast all 3 have to be at play with pace having a higher degree of influence than the other 2 factors. Overwatch is a good example. Most characters have slow movement (speed) but there is just so much going on that you have to a lotta micro decisions/second (pace) which in turn makes the game feel fast (perception). Just cherry picking one aspect to support your own argument is being biased.

So classic Halo vs H5 (4v4)

Perception : Yeah you can change the fov to make anything seem faster but it does not impact anything actually. You can’t run the flag any faster nor does it make the game demand more skill.

Pace: Classic Halo is slower in that you have one less aspect of the game to think about during the game. Which is the movement mechanics. With that addition, H5 is more demanding on your decision-making than the classic Halos. People can say that pressing a button to sprint doesnt take skill but thats a super reductive/ignorant statement and honestly it comes from not understanding the depth of H5’s mechanics as a whole. Anyway, owing to the added mechanics…H5 requires more decisions/second than classic halos. For a new player it may be indiscernible, but for seasoned players the difference definitely can be felt. Or even players who come from densely actioned MP games. (overwatch forums are filled with people who say Valorant is slow and a snooze fest. and neither have sprint)

Speed: This is where both classic and modern are generally equal but ONLY when comparing classic BMS vs sprint. People conveniently leave out the movement combos that allow you to move faster than sprint in H5. So all the videos tilted “enhanced mobility is a lie” should be renamed to “Sprint is a lie”.

Honestly I don’t understand the “sprint” threads that try to discuss movement skill as a whole. When sprint is only one piece of the movement puzzle. Its like talking about whether chess takes skill but people only discuss about what one piece of the playset does. So yes you can have fast, good and fun gameplay with/without sprint. So lets drop trying to “objectively” decide which is better.

2

To me fast really just means time to kill. Too short is no fun. Too long and you risk 1v1 situations being too easy to flee from or stalemate. A good balance involves a little bit of a gunfight with the better skilled person winning out. Not just whoever sees first and shoots first wins the engagements. I liked Reach’s approach, the game felt faster than 3 but not as fast as 4 or 5. Reason being, you had more movement options but the weapons and melee unless power weapons, were designed to do the same thing every time: work down the shields, then the health. No Bleedthrough except on sniper rifles and such. Whereas with 4 there was bleedthrough with pretty much every weapon and melee, plus 24/7 sprint and jet packs. Felt almost like a call of duty game at that point, turn the corner, dead. 5 remedied this a little bit but between the movement and the time to kill it was still a little quick for my taste.

3

> 2533274857642512;2:
> To me fast really just means time to kill. Too short is no fun. Too long and you risk 1v1 situations being too easy to flee from or stalemate. A good balance involves a little bit of a gunfight with the better skilled person winning out. Not just whoever sees first and shoots first wins the engagements. I liked Reach’s approach, the game felt faster than 3 but not as fast as 4 or 5. Reason being, you had more movement options but the weapons and melee unless power weapons, were designed to do the same thing every time: work down the shields, then the health. No Bleedthrough except on sniper rifles and such. Whereas with 4 there was bleedthrough with pretty much every weapon and melee, plus 24/7 sprint and jet packs. Felt almost like a call of duty game at that point, turn the corner, dead. 5 remedied this a little bit but between the movement and the time to kill it was still a little quick for my taste.

yeah TTK is a good point. I’d just put it under “pace”. Honestly any game mechanic that gets your brain synapses firing faster adds to the pace of the game. Not to say the higher pace = good/fun game. Just that higher pace = faster game.

4

well in the end all of what you said is correct but yeah none of it matters when there will more than likely be options to turn it on or off. giving everyone what they want. there are much more important things to complain about. like only 1 classic weapon in that demo. sure I know there are more from other trailers and such. but they should’ve made that demo 85% classic weapons to show them off. maybe not all of them are finished yet. idk

5

Fast gameplay to me is how fast the game takes to end. Like a 4 v 4 slayer game in Halo 3 feels fast when it’s under 5 min long.

6

> 2533274857642512;2:
> turn the corner, dead.

Sounds a lot like 2/3rds of my deaths in Halo CE earlier this evening xD “Spawn, take a few steps, perfect 3-shot’ed by someone. Spawn, repeat. Spawn, Oh I spawned on the enemy’s side and there’s a tank. Spawn, hello sniper. Spawn…” Average life was pretty low.

7

> 2535424770694943;1:
> Pace: Classic Halo is slower in that you have one less aspect of the game to think about during the game. Which is the movement mechanics. With that addition, H5 is more demanding on your decision-making than the classic Halos. People can say that pressing a button to sprint doesnt take skill but thats a super reductive/ignorant statement and honestly it comes from not understanding the depth of H5’s mechanics as a whole. Anyway, owing to the added mechanics…H5 requires more decisions/second than classic halos. For a new player it may be indiscernible, but for seasoned players the difference definitely can be felt. Or even players who come from densely actioned MP games. (overwatch forums are filled with people who say Valorant is slow and a snooze fest. and neither have sprint)

Two things here:

A. Halo CE having one less aspect to think about is wrong .
You never exclusively choose whether or not to sprint in “modern” games. The decision to sprint or not is always tied to the overall gameplay situation. You always make some other choice that then forces you to sprint (or not).
Want to engage in combat? Don’t sprint.
Want to escape from combat? Sprint.
Want to get to point X (powerweapon, ally, enemy, etc.) fast? Sprint.
You already had to make all of these choices in CE, as none of them is inherently tied to sprint.
If anything, sprint removes choice from the game. In previous titles, you always had three options:

  • Move at full speed while attacking/fighting
  • Move at full speed while not attacking/fighting (to not draw attention to yourself or whatever)
  • Don’t move at full speed
    Sprint removes the first option by forcing you to choose the third one when you want to be able to fight and just as well forcing you to pick the second one when you want to move at full speed. That’s not a choice, that’s the removal of a choice.

B. What you are describing is not the pace of the game.
At least it isn’t how I understand the word.
The pace of the game is the frequency of meaningful interactions. In a shooter, this is usually (but not exclusively) the rate of combat encounters.
And in that regard, classic Halo (especially CE) has a higher pace than the last few games, because sprint creates extended downtimes while you have to run like a headless chicken between two fights on the elongated maps.
This can and has been objectively measured, like the number and frequency of kills in pro matches.

Taking your three criteria from the beginning:
1. Perception:
Classic Halo is perceived slower, because of FoV issues and less visual feedback of movement. Both of these things can be changed to no longer be an issue.
2. Pace:
Classic Halo has a faster pace than modern Halo.
3. Speed:
BMS in modern Halo is (usually) lower than in Classic Halo, but sprint speed is higher. That being said, raising BMS would make the game faster without the need to add sprint.

If you want to make the gameplay fast, not only is sprint not required, past experience has taught us that it is actually detrimental. 1 and 3 can be sped up without the need for sprint, while 2 is actually slowed down by it.

8

> 2535424770694943;1:
> Before diving into the topic, it is kinda disappointing to see the halowaypoint is still filled with sprint discussions when there’s so much else to talk about. But I just wanted to shed a light on this a little so people can understand the other side better.
>
> Anyway so when we talk about fast gameplay, it involves 3 things
> 1. Perception
> 2. Pace
> 3. Speed
>
> For a game to feel fast all 3 have to be at play with pace having a higher degree of influence than the other 2 factors. Overwatch is a good example. Most characters have slow movement (speed) but there is just so much going on that you have to a lotta micro decisions/second (pace) which in turn makes the game feel fast (perception). Just cherry picking one aspect to support your own argument is being biased.
>
> So classic Halo vs H5 (4v4)
>
> Perception : Yeah you can change the fov to make anything seem faster but it does not impact anything actually. You can’t run the flag any faster nor does it make the game demand more skill.
>
> Pace: Classic Halo is slower in that you have one less aspect of the game to think about during the game. Which is the movement mechanics. With that addition, H5 is more demanding on your decision-making than the classic Halos. People can say that pressing a button to sprint doesnt take skill but thats a super reductive/ignorant statement and honestly it comes from not understanding the depth of H5’s mechanics as a whole. Anyway, owing to the added mechanics…H5 requires more decisions/second than classic halos. For a new player it may be indiscernible, but for seasoned players the difference definitely can be felt. Or even players who come from densely actioned MP games. (overwatch forums are filled with people who say Valorant is slow and a snooze fest. and neither have sprint)
>
> Speed: This is where both classic and modern are generally equal but ONLY when comparing classic BMS vs sprint. People conveniently leave out the movement combos that allow you to move faster than sprint in H5. So all the videos tilted “enhanced mobility is a lie” should be renamed to “Sprint is a lie”.
>
> Honestly I don’t understand the “sprint” threads that try to discuss movement skill as a whole. When sprint is only one piece of the movement puzzle. Its like talking about whether chess takes skill but people only discuss about what one piece of the playset does. So yes you can have fast, good and fun gameplay with/without sprint. So lets drop trying to “objectively” decide which is better.

Everyone talking about sprint seems to forget that you can’t sprint when shooting people aka half the time when you’re playing the game. The game is slower because when your in gunfights you can’t sprint meaning your stuck at a slower movement speed.

9

> 2533274801176260;7:
> Two things here:
>
> A. Halo CE having one less aspect to think about is wrong You never exclusively choose whether or not to sprint in “modern” games.
> B. What you are describing is not the pace of the game

*Quote - You never exclusively choose whether or not to sprint in “modern” games.*Not sure what you mean by this. Every decision in game is used in relation to overall game situation.

But to your Halo CE example, I’m going to replace every time you mentioned the word “Sprint” with “advanced movement”. Cuz no decent H5 player just sprints around. If you break down the use percentage of the mechanics…sprint slide and thrust will all have pretty much the same usage.

So anyway. How are you thinking about movement mechanics in Halo CE in the same way as you do in H5? Thats my point
Lets take an example. If I’m at tower 1 in The Rig and I have a player above me. I have to think about whether I want to spring jump to tower 2 or choose a more traditional path.
Now lets take Prisoner map in HALO CE. You only have the options offered to you by map design. You don’t have to think about movement to take advantage of a situation cuz there is no movement skill gap in classic Halo. With the exception of crouch jumping but that’s about it. And that’s super easy to master.
Essentially resulting in one less aspect of the game to master.

Quote - Want to engage in combat? Don’t sprint. Having your gun always out doesn’t mean you’re always engaging in battle. If I’m weak and back off strongsiding in classic halo, I’m actively disengaging from a fight. If I get someone weak and sprint-thrust-slide to finish them off, I’m actively engaging in a fight. Engaging in a fight just means you’re putting yourself in a position where you’re about to fight someone. What you’re talking about is having the option to always shoot. Which means you’re always ready to engage in a fight.
Which is a trade off in h5.
Do you always want to be ready to fight? Or do you want to gain positional advantage? Or do you wanna mix n match?

Removal of Choice. The way classic people see it is
H5 offers map traversal while taking away the ability to shoot. When reality is…H5 offers different degrees of map traversal while taking away the ability too shoot. So it takes away one choice and replaces it with multiple depending on your movement skill level. (All of this while retaining traditional halo fundamentals skills)

Lets take an example. Let’s say I get a player weak on pink tower on truth. My goal is to gain control of pink tower by backing that player off or killing him.
In H5 I can

  • choose to walk over and have my gun out all the time
  • sprint thrust slide up the ramp (can’t shoot)
  • jump thrust to top mid. (can’t shoot)
  • use the geometry on tower to sprint thrust slide up vertically to the top of tower. (can’t shoot)
  • rely on teammates to finish up the kill

All of these are readily available and viable options with varying degrees of success depending on game situation.

Now same scenario in classic halo.

  • I can walk up the ramp
  • Rely on teammates.
    And that’s it.

The movement mechanics offers me multiple options/decisions for one particular micro objective. And that level of freedom should rightfully have a tradeoff (which is taking away the ability to not shoot)

Circling back to your CE point, that’s why H5 is more demanding than classis Halo. The need to be good at movement in addition to traditional halo skills. You don’t have to think about how you choose to move in Classic Halo but its about the map route you take. In H5 you have to do both.

PaceWe both have different definitions. We cant say the other is wrong when we can’t agree on the definition. But yeah I agree. If I create a custom game mode with a very small map, quick respawns, and super quick ttk. I will get a lot of interactions regardless of movement mechanics. But that doesn’t reflect on the number and variety of factors you have to think about in game. Which is what I meant by pace. We can rename it to “game sense” or something.

Anyway that link you posted has number of research gaps. Biggest fallacy is linking match duration to fast gameplay. If a match ends super quick it doesn’t mean anything other than it ended quickly. Same goes for kills per minute. You can’t link a random variable to a hypothesis without controlling for all other factors. There are soo many things that could explain short games and high KDs. You wanna evaluate how fast gameplay is…? Look at the gameplay.

The following is a better explanation as to why Classic Halo CTF is shorter than H5 CTF game.

In classic halo its super hard to break out of spawn trap. So if the score is tied 2-2 on midship flag. And the enemy team is perfectly set up and has a number advantage…it is 99% guaranteed game over. That’s why games end quick. Losing side has little no chance for a comeback if the winning team is on top of things. (room for error for losing side is small, room for winning side is big). However this is not true in H5. The concept of overextending in H5 is faaaar more prevalent compared to classic halo. In H5 you still have a veery real chance of bringing the game back even if the last flag is more than halfway away from your own base. Which in turn makes the game longer. (room for error for winning side is small. Room for losing side is big)
Does this inform how fast the gameplay is? Not really. It just informs why flag matches tend to be longer in H5 than in classic Halo. As for higher KDs, you have higher degree of survivability off spawn in H5 due to the advanced movement. It doesn’t really mean there are fewer interactions.

So to conclude…as I mentioned…sprint is not required for fast gameplay. But that doesn’t mean I will reject a game that has fast fun skillful gameplay solely based on the fact that it includes sprint.

10

> 2533274801176260;7:
> This can and has been objectively measured, like the number and frequency of kills in pro matches.

Adding to the number of factors that were unaccounted for in this “objective” research

  • Inclusion of Radar in H5. Pace of game dramatically increased after Radar changes were made. And there was a test session when Radar was completely removed and the pace of the game went too high.
  • This was still fairly in H5. Players hadnt figured out the full potential of the movement system. You wanna compare H5 Splyce to 2009 MLG H3 gameplay.
  • Starting weapons
  • TTK
  • Shield regen speed
  • Respawn times. Cant remember if this is different between the two

And if from watching the synced up video, you feel like theres no action in H5 at the start of the game…thats because Huke was pushing carbine, when all the enemy team pushed pink.

If you had played Truth H5, it takes roughly the same duration to engage an enemy off the start of the game as Classic Halo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY8JS1v4sXo&t=1263sHere you go. Royal 2 sees his first enemy 5 seconds into the game. Maybe a second longer than the H3 example from that reddit link. (time stamp 11:15)