What will happen with Flood and Infection?
We need community maps, gametypes, AND playlists.
The gametype is missing one of the key elements, a one shot kill head shot for the pistol.
Would you make a SWAT gametype without 1SK headshot?
> The gametype is missing one of the key elements, a one shot kill head shot for the pistol.
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> Would you make a SWAT gametype without 1SK headshot?
Aw come on. That was a problem in previous Infection games. Getting camped out in the open by pistols, where the only strategy is to make them waste their bullets. Without shields it’s like, 3 body shots. That could be fine.
> > The gametype is missing one of the key elements, a one shot kill head shot for the pistol.
> >
> > Would you make a SWAT gametype without 1SK headshot?
>
> Aw come on. That was a problem in previous Infection games. Getting camped out in the open by pistols, where the only strategy is to make them waste their bullets. Without shields it’s like, 3 body shots. That could be fine.
All I can say Neo, is that I was a voracious consumer of the gametype before Halo 4. When I played the first game of 343’s version, it was apparent to me that they missed the point of the gametype.
They substituted the fun, for balance and took the number one playlist from Reach and turned it into one of the least popular in Halo 4. The insertion of the AA for the Flood was more then enough to even out the playing field. I suspect they are not interested in fixing it as it has not been mentioned one time. Instead they have busied themselves making super awesome gametypes like Throwdown =/.
Its a shame, it really is.
> > The gametype is missing one of the key elements, a one shot kill head shot for the pistol.
> >
> > Would you make a SWAT gametype without 1SK headshot?
>
> Aw come on. That was a problem in previous Infection games. Getting camped out in the open by pistols, where the only strategy is to make them waste their bullets. Without shields it’s like, 3 body shots. That could be fine.
The problem was never that zombies were weak, they are supposed to be. The problem was the maps in that playlist were mostly crap. Slayer and Objective maps don’t work for Infection, and it shouldn’t take a genius to figure that out.
Unfortunately now we have zombies that can fly across the entire map, and the Humans don’t stand a chance even when they camp.
I don’t think 343i has announced any planned changes for the Flood playlist, or for the gametype as a whole.
The War Games Feedback section has an official “Flood Feedback” thread, where you can submit feedback. They do monitor those threads, so feedback that gets posted there could influence future plans.
> They substituted the fun, for balance
Wat.
> and took the number one playlist from Reach and turned it into one of the least popular in Halo 4.
Popularity is not always an indicator of quality. In Reach, it was an indicator of how easily the playlist could be abused for stat-padding and boosting.
Flood is by no means perfect, but it is an improvement over Living Dead, and if properly managed, it could very well reach perfection.
I miss the old Infection, even Alpha Infection was ok, but the whole barrel rolling/thruster pack things is annoying.
> I don’t think 343i has announced any planned changes for the Flood playlist, or for the gametype as a whole.
>
> The War Games Feedback section has an official “Flood Feedback” thread, where you can submit feedback. They do monitor those threads, so feedback that gets posted there could influence future plans.
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> > They substituted the fun, for balance
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> Wat.
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> > and took the number one playlist from Reach and turned it into one of the least popular in Halo 4.
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> Popularity is not always an indicator of quality. In Reach, it was an indicator of how easily the playlist could be abused for stat-padding and boosting.
>
> Flood is by no means perfect, but it is an improvement over Living Dead, and if properly managed, it could very well reach perfection.
I have almost literally been the sole voice on this very subject for the entirety of my tenure here.
The quest for balance has blinded the powers that be, they had a gametype that pulled the largest population in the Reach and began to tinker. The results, speak for themselves.343 went a step further in Halo 4 and the results are screaming something has gone wrong, yet nothing.
What you call perfection, has less then 1/4 of the population that an over year old game had. But I am resigned to the fact that 343 does not care, they like you are more concerned with balance then with what will draw fans into the gametype.
Does population indicate perfection? Nope, but when the population numbers are compared and contrasted with Reach infection (pre-343 tinkering) there absolutely no other way to see it. 343 flat out missed what was the draw of infection was, the very core ideal of the game allows for a survivor to hold off the hordes. This is impossible in its current form.
Can someone stat-pad in the old infection gametype? Yup. Should it matter to 343? Nope.
The numbers for flood are dwindling, and I soon expect it to be pulled from rotation. Like I said before, it is a terrible travesty of a loss laid out on the alter of balance.
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What I call “perfection” doesn’t have any population, because we’re not close to it yet. We’re closer, but not close.
“Balance” doesn’t mean that the Zombies/Flood win every time. It means that both sides have a fair chance, rather than having one side get screwed over every round.
Reach was overwhelmingly imbalanced in favor of the Survivors, which made playing as the Zombies a miserable experience for all but the most skilled and most apathetic players. Halo 4 has a game variant that favors the Flood and map variants that favor the Survivors; these overlap and cancel enough times for Flood to be more balanced than Infection, but not enough for it to be balanced.
Even with Thruster Pack, it’s possible to build spaces where a lone Survivor can successfully survive against a lone Flood. Some of the maps, like Haven, already have a few spots where this is so. So the solution is to build maps consisting of these spots – to be mindful of spots where both sides have a fair chance, while trying not to build spaces that resemble ones that we know cater too much to one side.
> 343 flat out missed what was the draw of infection was, the very core ideal of the game allows for a survivor to hold off the hordes. This is impossible in its current form.
In a balanced game, a Survivor can hold off the hordes if they’re good enough.
In an imbalanced Survivor-favoring game, a Survivor can hold off the hordes… without even the slightest expenditure of mental effort or skill. Find a broken spot, camp in it, aim at the only entry point with the Shotgun, and mash the trigger when you see movement – an experience on par with Firefight Arcade in terms of the effort and thought involved. You may as well just take away the Survivor’s console and controller and drag them into a Skinner box.
Flood is currently in between these two extremes. It has plenty of imbalanced spots – Complex’s rooftops, among so, so many others – and features – like Thruster Pack, on many of the maps – but it also has moments where everything clicks into place to form an experience that is actually intense.
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> What I call “perfection” doesn’t have any population, because we’re not close to it yet. We’re closer, but not close.
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> “Balance” doesn’t mean that the Zombies/Flood win every time. It means that both sides have a fair chance, rather than having one side get screwed over every round.
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> Reach was overwhelmingly imbalanced in favor of the Survivors, which made playing as the Zombies a miserable experience for all but the most skilled and most apathetic players. Halo 4 has a game variant that favors the Flood and map variants that favor the Survivors; these overlap and cancel enough times for Flood to be more balanced than Infection, but not enough for it to be balanced.
>
> Even with Thruster Pack, it’s possible to build spaces where a lone Survivor can successfully survive against a lone Flood. Some of the maps, like Haven, already have a few spots where this is so. So the solution is to build maps consisting of these spots – to be mindful of spots where both sides have a fair chance, while trying not to build spaces that resemble ones that we know cater too much to one side.
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> > 343 flat out missed what was the draw of infection was, the very core ideal of the game allows for a survivor to hold off the hordes. This is impossible in its current form.
>
> In a balanced game, a Survivor can hold off the hordes if they’re good enough.
>
> In an imbalanced Survivor-favoring game, a Survivor can hold off the hordes… without even the slightest expenditure of mental effort or skill. Find a broken spot, camp in it, aim at the only entry point with the Shotgun, and mash the trigger when you see movement – an experience on par with Firefight Arcade in terms of the effort and thought involved. You may as well just take away the Survivor’s console and controller and drag them into a Skinner box.
>
> Flood is currently in between these two extremes. It has plenty of imbalanced spots – Complex’s rooftops, among so, so many others – and features – like Thruster Pack, on many of the maps – but it also has moments where everything clicks into place to form an experience that is actually intense.
Dave, my response will be posed in the form of a question;
What do you think MS cares about more, more balance, or more population?
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Who cares it a sucky gametype and belong in customs only please leave the MM Playlist for real game type not some -Yoink- gametype like this and please for the love off god take grifball out while you out it screw that -Yoink- too.
I just don’t understand why there were never any maps like what Halo 3’s infection had. That’s what killed it for me in Reach, and is part of what’s killing it for me now. Slightly modified default maps, aren’t good infection maps. Give me back the haunted house.
I don’t get it. Why do people want “Infection” back? It’s literally the exact same thing minus the Flood skins…
But yeah, ever since Living Dead in Reach, Infection/Flood has been insanely boring because it’s just default gametypes on default maps.
> What do you think MS cares about more, more balance, or more population?
I don’t understand what that has to do with the current discussion. It seems to me like you are saying balance should come second to worrying about population numbers, no matter how imbalanced (but even these concepts aren’t mutually exclusive, as many fan favorite maps and gametypes are heavily balanced).
Living Dead has always been incredibly more imbalanced than custom designed infection maps.
I hope they add some more custom settings for the Flood like of them to be able to hold weapons and such.
We need community maps more than just Infection, this gametype can get boring playing on default maps. I agree with a thruster pack nerf for the flood, but if we just bring back classic infection and not community maps lots of people will get bored of playing this gametype like I have.
> > What do you think MS cares about more, more balance, or more population?
>
> I don’t understand what that has to do with the current discussion. It seems to me like you are saying balance should come second to worrying about population numbers, no matter how imbalanced (but even these concepts aren’t mutually exclusive, as many fan favorite maps and gametypes are heavily balanced).
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> Living Dead has always been incredibly more imbalanced than custom designed infection maps.
If you are looking at the current population of the Flood playlist as compared to the Reach Infection and dont see a problem, then I dont think there is anything I can say to convince you.
The imbalance of the old gametype is the only thing missing from the new one, well that and the bursting population.
My suggestion would be two playlists.
Infection and Flood.
Flood is what it is now, but with some new maps included to keep the game fresh. I’d probably be happy with a slight nerf to the thruster pack, too.
Infection would be what we expected Flood to be. Basically the same as on H3/Reach.
That way everyone wins. Play whichever you find the most fun!