Do you think Spartan IV’s are bad or good and why?
Canonically speaking, they’re very underpowered. If you had one of them and a spartan 2 go at it, it wouldn’t even be a real contest. A spartan 4 doesn’t go through the same things that a spartan 2 would have. Their armor is also looks less protective than the older armors (lots of spots where there is just under suit showing). I also think it is kinda cool though, to have more than just a handful of Spartans.
I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
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> Do you think Spartan IV’s are bad or good and why?
Well considering they’re on our side I fail to see how they can even be ‘bad’, whatever that’s supposed to mean.
It was kind of inevitable anyway given the success of the Spartan program and their use in UNSC propaganda. Master Chief did save humanity for sure but his status is basically one of godhood in regards to the general public.
Other Spartans are generally held in high esteem also anyway.
It shouldn’t really be a contest when all Spartan groups are on the same team. Whilst some folk are wary of the older Spartans and some folk skeptical about the newer, you cant deny that on the whole both are competent subclasses of Spartan.
Over/Underpowered discussion isnt even up for debate considering the constant updating and iterating Mjolnir armor goes through constantly.
Both are excellent, and both are good.
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> I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
>
> But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
Sure tonnes died but um… so what? I dont personally dig the whole “last of his kind” shtick with the Chief or Blue Team I think that’s just overrated nonsense.
Also the Infinity and its Spartans kinda makes sense… given its the UNSC’s largest capital ship ever.
Also consider that the Spartan deployment on Infinity goes only in the hundreds but that Marine, ODST, civilian and other (Huragok working the engines, or envoys from the Swords of Sanghelios) make up a larger majority than the Spartans do.
Besides what with the current story direction it seems clear a lot of Spartans are under threat now given the sheer strength of their current enemy.
Idk, I dont see much issue with loads of Spartans, maybe that’s just me tho.
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> > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> >
> > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
>
> Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
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> > > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> > >
> > > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
> >
> > Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
>
> going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
I see. That’s quite a significantly large number.
It does open the way for more stories of Spartan III characters I would suppose if your estimate is correct. That’s fine by me, I like seeing what armor combinations we see.
The difference is in training and mentality, it’s not that they are “bad”, they are just lacking. The Spartan II’s and III’s were trained from childhood to be elite soldiers, the Spartan IV’s were picked from the ranks of ODST’s and other units, and while they may have been decent soldiers, they lack the severe training and decades of combat experience that the Spartan II’s/III’s had endured. The Spartan IV’s also carry across their issues and limitations, both personal and professional, this gives them the kind of attitudes we saw in Halo 4 (cocky and arrogant). Where as the Spartan II’s and III’s were consummate professionals, levels above Spartan IV’s in demeanor and personal skill. In terms of augmentations, II’s and III’s are individually stronger than IV’s, but the newer augmentations are far less risky, with the weaknesses being made up for in the latest generation Mjolnir Armor variants. In the newest armor, all are relatively evenly matched in terms of “power”, without armor however, II’s are vastly superior to either III’s or IV’s and would completely dominate them.
I don’t really like how 343 portrayed the S-IV’s in Halo 4, they came across as childish, immature and unbefitting a class of soldier that is supposed to represent Earth’s best. Sure, give them some humanity and personal traits, but not the levels of stupid some were showing in Halo 4. I liked Thorne though, he represented what a S-IV should and could be.
Honestly, Spartan IVs are underrated. they are a natural progression of the Spartan program. while they less physically powerful than a II, they make up for it in technological advancement and experience. they are a more human approach to the super soldier program. I’ve seen a lot of arguments against the S-IVs, many are legitimate concerns that can be easily explained away or can also be applied to the S-IIIs. others are simply directed towards Palmer, Demarco, and Locke, but these three do not represent the over 500 IVs as a whole.
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> > > > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> > > >
> > > > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
> > >
> > > Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
> >
> > going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
>
> I see. That’s quite a significantly large number.
>
> It does open the way for more stories of Spartan III characters I would suppose if your estimate is correct. That’s fine by me, I like seeing what armor combinations we see.
well, it doesn’t open up that much of a possibility, considering that even with this high population count, more than 75% of the S-IIIs are KIA
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> > > > > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> > > > >
> > > > > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
> > > >
> > > > Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
> > >
> > > going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
> >
> > I see. That’s quite a significantly large number.
> >
> > It does open the way for more stories of Spartan III characters I would suppose if your estimate is correct. That’s fine by me, I like seeing what armor combinations we see.
>
> well, it doesn’t open up that much of a possibility, considering that even with this high population count, more than 75% of the S-IIIs are KIA
True, still theres a lot of spartans unaccounted for in general. Unique circumstances notwithstanding
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> while they may have been decent soldiers, they lack the severe training and decades of combat experience that the Spartan II’s/III’s had endured.
as soldiers, they fought the same war as the IIs and IIIs, without the armor and augmentations that the spartans had. I’d call that quite a lot of experience. plus they’ve already had training to become soldiers, fought a war for the fate of humanity, were selected for being the best of the best in terms of combat proficiency, and then went into training again to become spartans.
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> both personal and professional, this gives them the kind of attitudes we saw in Halo 4 (cocky and arrogant). Where as the Spartan II’s and III’s were consummate professionals, levels above Spartan IV’s in demeanor and personal skill…
>
> …I liked Thorne though, he represented what a S-IV should and could be.
there’s really only 5 IVs that act like this (palmer, Demarco, Madsen, and Scruggs and Mickey(though these two weren’t cocky or arrogant, they were traitors)), but there’s over 500 S-IVs and these 5 do not represent the the 500 well at all (seriously, why does so much story focus on palmer when she represents the IVs so poorly). there are plenty of professional IVs that better represent the program: Thorne, Davis (KIA, horrible way to die) , Grant, Ray, Fireteam Crimson, Tanaka and Vale (though awkward, they were professional), and the NPC spartans from the campaign and Spartan Ops.
its the same story with the S-IIIs, most IIIs are professional but there are some that are not (Emile (arrogant, disrespectful, absolute jerk, edgy to the point he has to be kept away from civilians) and Jonah (cocky) are prime examples), but most people overlook them as they are only a few compared to the whole program and they aren’t constantly being exposed to the fanbase (Palmer).
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> > > > > > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
> > > > >
> > > > > Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
> > > >
> > > > going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
> > >
> > > I see. That’s quite a significantly large number.
> > >
> > > It does open the way for more stories of Spartan III characters I would suppose if your estimate is correct. That’s fine by me, I like seeing what armor combinations we see.
> >
> > well, it doesn’t open up that much of a possibility, considering that even with this high population count, more than 75% of the S-IIIs are KIA
>
> True, still theres a lot of spartans unaccounted for in general. Unique circumstances notwithstanding
wish they would explore more of the S-III and S-IV programs, S-IIIs to clear up major plot hole, and IVs to expose the fanbase to better S-IVs than palmer and show that they are a legitimately great generation of spartans
I think the media has done a good job of demonstrating the pitfalls of the Spartan-IVs. You remove the damaging issues of child soldiers, but you end up with less dependable assets in return.
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> > > > > > > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
> > > > >
> > > > > going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
> > > >
> > > > I see. That’s quite a significantly large number.
> > > >
> > > > It does open the way for more stories of Spartan III characters I would suppose if your estimate is correct. That’s fine by me, I like seeing what armor combinations we see.
> > >
> > > well, it doesn’t open up that much of a possibility, considering that even with this high population count, more than 75% of the S-IIIs are KIA
> >
> > True, still theres a lot of spartans unaccounted for in general. Unique circumstances notwithstanding
>
> wish they would explore more of the S-III and S-IV programs, S-IIIs to clear up major plot hole, and IVs to expose the fanbase to better S-IVs than palmer and show that they are a legitimately great generation of spartans
Palmer is actually a good Spartan IV tho? Are people still mad she made a sarcastic quip when she met Master Chief? Who even cares? She’s one of the most actually competent Spartans in canon sarcasm notwithstanding.
People who think Palmer is a bad character dont know -Yoink- about Palmer
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> > while they may have been decent soldiers, they lack the severe training and decades of combat experience that the Spartan II’s/III’s had endured.
>
> as soldiers, they fought the same war as the IIs and IIIs, without the armor and augmentations that the spartans had. I’d call that quite a lot of experience. plus they’ve already had training to become soldiers, fought a war for the fate of humanity, were selected for being the best of the best in terms of combat proficiency, and then went into training again to become spartans.
>
>
>
>
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> > both personal and professional, this gives them the kind of attitudes we saw in Halo 4 (cocky and arrogant). Where as the Spartan II’s and III’s were consummate professionals, levels above Spartan IV’s in demeanor and personal skill…
> >
> > …I liked Thorne though, he represented what a S-IV should and could be.
>
> there’s really only 5 IVs that act like this (palmer, Demarco, Madsen, and Scruggs and Mickey(though these two weren’t cocky or arrogant, they were traitors)), but there’s over 500 S-IVs and these 5 do not represent the the 500 well at all (seriously, why does so much story focus on palmer when she represents the IVs so poorly). there are plenty of professional IVs that better represent the program: Thorne, Davis (KIA, horrible way to die) , Grant, Ray, Fireteam Crimson, Tanaka and Vale (though awkward, they were professional), and the NPC spartans from the campaign and Spartan Ops.
> its the same story with the S-IIIs, most IIIs are professional but there are some that are not (Emile (arrogant, disrespectful, absolute jerk, edgy to the point he has to be kept away from civilians) and Jonah (cocky) are prime examples), but most people overlook them as they are only a few compared to the whole program and they aren’t constantly being exposed to the fanbase (Palmer).
I agree that they (S-IV’s) have fought the same war and been through hell and many battles prior to being picked for S-IV selection, but that doesn’t make them the same tier as a Spartan II or to a lesser extent S-III. As I’m sure you know, S-II’s in particular have trained since they were 6 years old, by the time of Infinite S-II’s are 49 years old, 43 of those years in constant training and combat operations against both Insurrectionists and Covenant. I’m not saying S-IV’s lack recent experience, they certainly have it, they just have a fraction of what a S-II does - a life’s worth of training and combat. S-IV’s may be Spartans, but they are not THE Spartans. S-III’s are a little different, being victims of the Covenant, they already have character flaws like extreme hatred of their enemy, and augmentations that affect their mental state, but that was harnessed and used to their benefit, and the S-III’s turned out to be excellent soldiers, with some on the same tier as S-II’s (like Noble), although the vast majority were used in terribly wasteful ways.
The problem is, like I said, the Spartan IV’s are picked from current serving ODST’s (and there is plenty of evidence that they are not quiet professionals) that carry with them the kind of ingrained bad character traits (that all adults gain over time) that are trained/indoctrinated out of the S-II and III (mostly) ranks through years of harsh training and discipline - MUCH more than any other serving UNSC personnel. S-IV’s are not the same, at all, they lack the discipline of the older, more experienced II’s and III’s. The problem here is that 343 gave us this terrible first impression, and that has stuck and tarnished them. I didn’t say they were all the same, because we can’t simply label them all like that, because that wouldn’t be accurate, and yes, many are a cut above those we were exposed to in Halo 4, prime example being Thorne, like I mentioned. Like I also stated, they are fine soldiers with excellent training and combat experience, and I’m certain there are many more like Thorne who probably emulate the previous generation of Spartan closely, but they are still not on the same tier. Good soldiers they may be, but they are flawed, more highly trained ODST with augmentation and Mjolnir armor, than a Spartan II replacement.
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> > > > > > > > I think they are good. They are Spartans after all. What I like is how they still show respect and reverence toward S-II and S-III’s. IV’s seem to understand who they are would never have been possible without the sacrifices made by their predecessors. At least, I don’t know of any IV who talked down to a II or III (including Palmer).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But, from a storytelling standpoint, I miss having a universe with only a few S-II’s and S-III’s. As has been touched on by many people on other threads, Halo’s story had the greatest impact when humanity was on its back foot, so to speak. Having a giant, invincible spaceship filled with S-IV’s is very cool, but only in small doses. Otherwise, you lose the ability to tell a deep story when you can simply spam everything Infinity has on board to defeat any threat.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Werent there literally hundreds of Spartan IIIs and what, 75 ish Spartan IIs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > going by the books, there are 930 S-IIIs. but thanks to plot holes caused by the Reach game and the fact that large numbers spartans were pulled before operations Prometheus and Torpedo (and somehow did not effect the number of spartans present and casualties at these operations), there is likely 1,000- 2,000 S-IIIs
> > > > >
> > > > > I see. That’s quite a significantly large number.
> > > > >
> > > > > It does open the way for more stories of Spartan III characters I would suppose if your estimate is correct. That’s fine by me, I like seeing what armor combinations we see.
> > > >
> > > > well, it doesn’t open up that much of a possibility, considering that even with this high population count, more than 75% of the S-IIIs are KIA
> > >
> > > True, still theres a lot of spartans unaccounted for in general. Unique circumstances notwithstanding
> >
> > wish they would explore more of the S-III and S-IV programs, S-IIIs to clear up major plot hole, and IVs to expose the fanbase to better S-IVs than palmer and show that they are a legitimately great generation of spartans
>
> Palmer is actually a good Spartan IV tho? Are people still mad she made a sarcastic quip when she met Master Chief? Who even cares? She’s one of the most actually competent Spartans in canon sarcasm notwithstanding.
>
> People who think Palmer is a bad character dont know -Yoink- about Palmer
palmer is a good soldier, she would definitely dominate most combatants. her combat prowess alone is credibility to her as spartan. however, she’s not an effective leader. she has run off, abandoning the spartan team she was with to chase down Halsey. she has repeatedly put her vendetta against Halsey as a priority above the current mission. she has also let her aggression and gungho attitude get the better of her numerous times, which has resulted in Halsey’s escape and the endangerment of fellow spartan IVs. she has shown that she lacks the discipline, restraint, and tactical foresight that is required to be a commander. she is supposed to be the figurehead and leader of the Spartan-IVs, but does not act in a way that is appropriate for her position, and thus damages the image and reputation of the S-IVs. there many other S-IVs that are better suited for her role and would better represent the S-IV program. .
I personally do not care about the quip, it was just a quick comment from one soldier to another. though, I can see how a lot of fans were upset by it. and her saying that to the chief was the first introduction to the IVs that the fanbase received. Honestly, I think the Palmer/S-IV introduction from the early Halo 4 storyboarding would have been a much better introduction scene:
in that version the S-IVs are first seen jumping out of a pelican, guns-blazing, tearing through a horde of promethean knights. when the spartans have almost finished clearing out the knights, one jumps at palmer. palmer catches it and chokes it (in this early concept of Halo 4 the Prometheans appear to be partially organic). chief asks who they are, palmer says “we’re Spartan IVs, the new batch of spartans. we may not be IIs, but we can hold our own”.
I don’t understand why they didn’t go with this scene, they had it written out, it was awesome, and would have had much more positive feedback towards the IVs from the fanbase than “I thought you would be taller”
The Spartan IV’s are so boring.
In H3, when you picked up a squad of ODST’s, they were normally better equipped, fired their guns faster, hit more shots, and had more interesting dialogue. You could completely FEEL the difference between their presence compared to if you had regular Marines with you.
And the I never felt any of that with the Spartan IV’s. That’s why I don’t really like them as they’ve been presented so far