What is wrong with ranked?!?

Games Halo Infinite
21

Well exactly lower population = harder to match even games - even though my games are pretty even.

Apart from my skewering of the results didn’t help my team when I was expected to carry. - but that’s another argument you should never really be expected to carry. Just do your 25% ——- (low population)

Yes I agree the reset is all about loosening that MMR but I would have had to purposely lose 20 games for the system to form/predict/decide a different level of my ability.

But I do suppose that isn’t it’s purpose especially if I’m manipulating the system. So in some sense why even show the reset in the CSR just reset the MMR and keep your CSR going forward. It would be interesting to see it jump around in real time. People might get a better understanding of how it works and treat the system less of a progression system and more of a ranking system.

Hence why it shouldn’t be visible in its current state… the CSR is too connected to the MMR to be a different system. —— a ranking system that doesn’t promote easy progression doesn’t really appeal to a broader audience - so many inconsistencies in 343.

But HELL YEaH bring on the military ranks - I’m burnt out on that subject and hopefully the progression system is currently being worked on and imminently going to be dropped after the match XP beta haha.

Edit

How are you still playing at 180 ping - my brother is in asia and I sacked him off months ago due to his 240 ping :slight_smile:

22

It’s not just “even” games. It’s creating those winnable or losable game just above or below you respectively that that allow you to rank up or down.

Probably?

It’s certainly not the same behaviour we’ve seen with previous Season resets.

I don’t know if they did anything different this time.

I am assuming any weird behaviour is due to the lower populations.

Certainly the behaviour of ranking in widely spaced squads is that the middle people in each team tend to tread water (slow to rank up or down). Maybe some of that behaviour is leaking through as well.

Good question.

I guess it’s because your CSR chases the left hand edge of your MMR. And now your MMR is much wider. So your CSR will naturally fall heavily to chase it.

Plus it’s volatile. So your CSR may be confusing (more than usual).

Better just to wipe the slate clean. Allow your MMR to do it’s thing… and then start the CSR on the right spot; mu minus three times sigma.

If we could see graphs of our MMR and CSR on Waypoint it would go a long way to educating the masses.

I think they found that the MMR works best if allowed to be a little bit volatile - to adjust to fluctuations in form.

But people don’t like their rank going down. Especially not a lot.

So, by having the CSR limited to plus or minus 15 points - you smooth out that journey.

We don’t know for sure, but your MMR may move up to a 150 points in a day (the wording of Josh Menke’s posts was a bit fluffy).

People need something to grind. And skill rank isn’t that.

I’m actually winning more games at 180+ than below. :slight_smile:

You have to sit back and play more of a support role.

Grab the oddball. Be the “objective” guy.

But don’t get sucked into CQC. Melees just don’t register…

But yeah. It’s definitely taken the gloss out of playing ranked at the moment…

23

Let’s say you find that MMR works best by being free to move up to plus or minus 50 points a game (just a theoretical value). That happens to be the best range to respond to fluctuations in form etc. It’s the fluctuation that gives the best match making data.

You can’t have your displayed rank changing by that much. People are losing their minds if their team-mate goes up by 1 or 2 points more than they do. Can you imagine dropping a 100 points on the back of a couple of unlucky losses?

So you have a CSR that chases the MMR in a more controlled fashion. You make it plus or minus 15 points. So now you have a chance to arrest your form slump before you lose too much rank.

You can also “fiddle” with the CSR. Change the algorithm to be a little slower in the down direction than the up. Or protect it from dropping to the division below if you have only just moved up there. But having said that - I don’t think 343 have done that with this iteration of the CSR.

Your MMR is all about match making. Your CSR is all about the journey.

24

You sound like you’re a member of WEF :joy:

It’s the behaviour I have seen since the initial ten games and including all resets. My results have been very different and I have been placed placed in mid Platinum every time.

I remember looking at my first ten games and from what I recall each of those players at the time I never played anyone over a platinum… although that could be down to a higher population.

For me this wasn’t an issue in H3 as the game was more fun to play. Infinite’s ranked experience is boring as it’s too traditional and for the purists. Ranked in H3 was a more social friendly game with pre and post game lobbies, radar more interesting maps better pick ups and a better balance of weapons.

You play 20 games of Infinite and if the two wins two loses don’t deter you the repetitiveness definitely will.

Happens a lot when nobody can shoot you :joy:

1 Like
25

The World Economic Forum?

The results would need to be examined in context of who you played and how you did in terms of KPM.

But if you were ranked the same then maybe you are just predictable!

Except this one obviously. That sounds a little weird given you did so badly. But low population etc. And sample size of one.

And early in the season a lot of the players are either unranked or their CSR is well below their MMR.

You can’t really make a call.

Agree that we need more content.

And all those things pre and post game go a long way to defining the experience.

343 have some work to do.

Oh, they shoot me a lot. Especially around corners. :slight_smile:

1 Like
26

Language and agenda!

You said earlier about predicting rather than deciding fate.

My issue with this is if you set the parameters you have an unconventional bias in determining the outcome.

But it’s not so much about the determination of the outcome it’s about how the players are measured.

Coherently it’s not so is it? The system favours one type of player over another and for me that is totally against the ethos of 343s fairness and competitive play.

It’s been the same since Halo Reach - where killing your team mate to scavenge the remaining two rockets would increase your rank more so than supporting your team mate to get two more kills.

27

I have been asking about this and friendly fire for months now with zero responses about how it affects rank. If I’m on the top by say 150 pts. (I don’t care about being on top just using example) I notice a significant amount of blue hit detections on me, perhaps so my teammate can gain points on me. This actually helps their rank even though it is counterintuitive as to why. It is worse play, but better mmr. Please explain as this happens frequently.

28

They’ll get a chance of getting a higher MMR cause they’ll be gaining points for assists and maybe hit percentage on the opposing player. The fact they hit you doesn’t matter as friendly fire is off now.

Basically dumbs the game down for casual players who don’t take it serious.

Personally in Ranked friendly fire should be on and blowing your team mate up with a grenade should be penalised especially if an emphasis is based on personal performance.

29

:slight_smile:

The parameter is essentially two fold;

  1. Beating teams ranked above you. First and foremost.

  2. A weighting for matching the KPM of the rank you are trying to attain.

And I think the matching is the key. Josh Menke always described KPM in relation to the rank involved.

eg. A Diamond player would have a KPM of 1.4 vs other Diamond players. If you want to be Diamond you should be doing the same.

It was never about going out and getting more kills. Just matching the performance of your peers.

Which makes sense. Your KPM vs any level of opponent is a measure of your 1v1 ability vs that level. If you want to be that rank you simply need to match their output vs you.

You should be going 50:50 in the 1v1’s vs the level you want to be at.

To the point that would definitely boost your KPM in this game.

But at some point your non-team orientated play is going to cost you wins. Particularly in objective games. And you can’t rank up if you aren’t actually winning.

But there will always be those toxic types in any competitive game.

:frowning:

It’s selfish toxic play.

In the long run it will cost them.

Especially if they are just setting you up to die more. That’s not going to bolster their MMR in any way.

They won’t gain points for assists… or do you mean stealing your kills? - in which case that may bolster their KPM over yours. But not enough to make any meaningful difference (remember it’s only a weighting).

And again, the most important thing for ranking up is winning. And to beat a higher ranked team you pretty much need everyone working as a team.

Not in ranked though?

30

My ping was all over the place last night. Lots of packet loses. I’m unable to search with unranked friends but matched someone who was unranked. The ranking system is very frustrating to say the least. The game’s core ranking system makes sense but is not player friendly and that’s what irritates me.

31

The very fact that you said this and even more so that you could be right to an extent shows the biggest fundamental flaw in the ranking system based on a team game experience.

True but it won’t impact your personal performance, which is bizarre considering the system is some what based on personal performance.

32

They looked at lots of different metrics for TrueSkill2, including Assists.

None of them, apart from KPM and DPM had any extra predictive value over the win.

Some, and I suspect assists may have been one of them, were actually negative predictors of ranking up.

So basically, if you rank someone up higher on the basis of assists then they end up out of their depth, lose a lot (frustrating them and their team), and end up back where you started.

Not saying that assists can’t be good. They can reflect good team play (ie. team shooting). And I personally take a lot of pride in each one.

But a lot of them can also reflect someone struggling to hold their own in the 1v1s.

33

I agree with what you are saying - but the bigger picture is it’s not a 1 on 1 playlist and the majority of the time you don’t fight 1 on 1 battles if you’re playing as a team.

Like you said - you sit back and work with the situation regarding your ping. Play defence, pick up the ball, run the flag.

I for example play without a Mic - Infinite hasn’t inspired me to buy one when mine broke a month into release… so I play the same in the harder games … I follow players and use the call out feature. My assists are usually nigher than my kills and deaths.

It doesn’t say I’m a bad player in a team game I just play the game differently more conservative and less forceful…

I said earlier that it’s been like it since Reach - but Halo3 had similarities….

Me and brother played the same amount of games but he would rank up quicker due to personal performance. Probabaly due to the KPM but the weighting on performance was far less in Halo 3 than Reach/5 and Infinite.

I’m just in that camp. Halo 3 ranking system > Reach/5/Infinite - they tweaked it too much.

34

Stupid 343 you keep saying you “fixed” ranked and every game I ein by a lot you add 7 points and for every defeat -10

35

It’s all about the quality of the opponent.

Winning by a lot generally implies a lower ranked opponent - and you shouldn’t rank up much on that basis.