What is the logic of the CSR system?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

See, I know how the CSR system works. Win against a higher ranked team and you rise, lose against a lower ranked team and you drop.

But from my own in-game experience this logic is backwards so perhaps I’m missing something. I mainly play Slayer. I used to be quite bad, but for some reason in my first season I got ranked Platinum 1. A good game would be with a K/D of 1.0, I had no idea what I was doing, I couldn’t hit anything and I died a lot. Now I have progressed significantly (I’m still not that good but way way better!). I have gotten objectively better I get more kills, I die less, I do more damage pr match, get more medals, and now a 1.0 K/D is a bad game. All the post-game stats show this.

And subsequently, as I have gotten better at Halo 5, my CSR has dropped every season from Platinum 1 -> Gold 3 (I believe) -> Silver 6 and now Silver 2.

I don’t mind this but it seems backwards to me that even though I get better and can finally(!) hold my own, my CSR drops.

Now, I understand that it drops because I lose some of the matches with my team – and I only play with random teams as none of my mates are in to gaming. But why is individual performance not taken into account?

Say a team faces a way better team and loses, but some guy on the losing team absolutely dominates on his own. Why is that player not rewarded when clearly he was better than the players on the opposing team even though they lost since he cannot carry the team?

In cases like this, the well-performing player on the losing team is doing better than his team and likely better than some of the opponents, but of course that player can’t carry the team alone, they lose, and his CSR drops.

Likewise, if my team loses but I played a good game with positive K/D, high accuracy and plenty of kills and relatively few deaths, why should my CSR still count downwards? I played better than some of the opponents, whose CSR’s rise from the win.

It seems to me that the CSR system takes group performance and uses it to rank individuals without taking into account the individual performance and to me that sounds like comparing apples and bananas. But perhaps I’m missing the bigger picture?

Not a rant, I’m just wondering. :slight_smile:

2

Logic? What’s that?

3

Well. By looking through some of your recent slayer games you

A- Lose a lot
B- Do ok against bronze and silver kids
C- Go negative practically every time you match gold players

Silver seems like a reasonable rank for you.

4

As far as your rewarding individuals theory does. It doesn’t work. You can’t reward an individual in a team game. They already tried this with arena in Halo Reach and it was a complete disaster. Bungie actually had to patch the system out of the game and put back a win/loss based system.

When you reward individuals in a team game you are essentially pitting teammates against each other in a competition. Which is not good. Especially in a game with weapon pick ups/power ups/power weapons.

What would happen frequently in Reach when the game used an individual stats system is that when one player would get an OS/sniper/rockets his teammates would shoot him a bunch. Once the other team would kill that weakened player the other guys would grab his power weapon. Because power weapons are the easiest way to get good stats and in a stats based system that’s whats important.

It just doesn’t work.

5

Firstly the preseason ranks are bs cause back then it would place ppl in ranks they are not equivalent skilled to like alot of ppl ranked onyx ffa in it but once the season starts they get ranked plat and diamond. I know cause i got diamond 1 for swat then and im nowhere near it.

> 2535438238115430;3:
> Well. By looking through some of your recent slayer games you
>
> A- Lose a lot
> B- Do ok against bronze and silver kids
> C- Go negative practically every time you match gold players
>
> Silver seems like a reasonable rank for you.

This guy did his research + 77 games… meh i agree that silver would be arnd yr lvl

6

> 2535438238115430;3:
> Well. By looking through some of your recent slayer games you
>
> A- Lose a lot
> B- Do ok against bronze and silver kids
> C- Go negative practically every time you match gold players
>
> Silver seems like a reasonable rank for you.

Like I said I’m not really good at the game, nor am I complaining that I am placed in silver. I have no illusions towards my own skill level. I was puzzled because for some reason I was placed in Platinum 1 when I first started and I am miles better than I was back then. What you say makes sense, however it still seems to me that it is a part of the system that players will from time to time get punished even though they did well. But I see why this is the better alternative.

Edit: I had a couple of the placement matches where people on my team left making it 2v4. Doesn’t help the ranking either. :slight_smile:

7

> 2535468425990603;5:
> Firstly the preseason ranks are bs cause back then it would place ppl in ranks they are not equivalent skilled to like alot of ppl ranked onyx ffa in it but once the season starts they get ranked plat and diamond. I know cause i got diamond 1 for swat then and im nowhere near it.
>
>
> > 2535438238115430;3:
> > Well. By looking through some of your recent slayer games you
> >
> > A- Lose a lot
> > B- Do ok against bronze and silver kids
> > C- Go negative practically every time you match gold players
> >
> > Silver seems like a reasonable rank for you.
>
>
> This guy did his research + 77 games… meh i agree that silver would be arnd yr lvl

Ya, 343 has already stated that the preseason ranking was off and they later adjusted it to make it harder to get high ranks.

8

You won 2/10 placement matches, silver seems right.

9

> 2533274821773458;8:
> You won 2/10 placement matches, silver seems right.

I agree, however that has nothing do with what I wrote…

Man the amount of prejudice in this forum. Are players of lesser skill not allowed to post without having their intentions and / or the legitimacy of said post questioned?

10

> 2535468425990603;5:
> Firstly the preseason ranks are bs cause back then it would place ppl in ranks they are not equivalent skilled to like alot of ppl ranked onyx ffa in it but once the season starts they get ranked plat and diamond. I know cause i got diamond 1 for swat then and im nowhere near it.

That makes sense. Perhaps they should not display the preseason rank as all-time top CSR. Like, I was platinum 1, but lets be honest, I wasn’t. Anyway, the system has room for adjustments I guess and it seems it has been improved since its launch back in the fall.

11

i think what you are running into is a combination of factors. first, the adjustments have made higher ranks harder.

also, as the community has played the game i think it has on average gotten better. some of the more casual players have moved on to doom or overwatch or whatever the newest game is, and the ones that are still playing are more practiced.

finally, i think it may also take into account if you were ranked plat or gold and spent the whole season at the level 1 rank of that tier because you can’t drop from plat to gold or gold to silver etc.

12

Yeah unfortunately they upped the difficulty to get high ranks around March. It’s funny because running a company you see a lot of applicants with onyx all-time top CSR and you’re like “ooooh good!” And then you look at their current and they’re plat/gold across the board. You look at all their past seasons and you can see when it changed.

It’s annoying for me because I sucked when I first got this game (golds, plats, diamonds) and now I’m MUCH better (high plats, diamonds). I’ve never been in onyx because I don’t play enough ranked arena to grind out of diamond. It’s just annoying to see all these people with onyx/champ all-time CSR who are actually gold players while I’m stuck with diamond.

13

CSR is relative to Wins and Losses compared to others in the playlist.

14

> 2533274842923840;9:
> > 2533274821773458;8:
> > You won 2/10 placement matches, silver seems right.
>
>
> I agree, however that has nothing do with what I wrote…
>
> Man the amount of prejudice in this forum. Are players of lesser skill not allowed to post without having their intentions and / or the legitimacy of said post questioned?

Because you can’t properly quantify an individuals contribution to their teams success by simply looking at stats, unfortunately it’s not that simple. They tried to do this with Team Arena in Reach and all it resulted in was bitterness between teammates, people crouching in the back of their own base with shotgun, and people betraying each other for Sniper every game. In the end, all that matters is did you win or lose?

As for your stats improving, perhaps they are better because you are now facing those closer to your skill. The system takes into account your previous season rank when performing your placement for the new season so you were likely playing those who were around silver/gold last season. While your stats are better your win rate has become much lower and your rank has dropped.

15

> 2533274851326318;12:
> Yeah unfortunately they upped the difficulty to get high ranks around March. It’s funny because running a company you see a lot of applicants with onyx all-time top CSR and you’re like “ooooh good!” And then you look at their current and they’re plat/gold across the board. You look at all their past seasons and you can see when it changed.
>
> It’s annoying for me because I sucked when I first got this game (golds, plats, diamonds) and now I’m MUCH better (high plats, diamonds). I’ve never been in onyx because I don’t play enough ranked arena to grind out of diamond. It’s just annoying to see all these people with onyx/champ all-time CSR who are actually gold players while I’m stuck with diamond.

Onyx is still easy to get so that’s hilarious (the spartan companies).

16

> 2535438238115430;4:
> As far as your rewarding individuals theory does. It doesn’t work. You can’t reward an individual in a team game. They already tried this with arena in Halo Reach and it was a complete disaster. Bungie actually had to patch the system out of the game and put back a win/loss based system.
>
> When you reward individuals in a team game you are essentially pitting teammates against each other in a competition. Which is not good. Especially in a game with weapon pick ups/power ups/power weapons.
>
> What would happen frequently in Reach when the game used an individual stats system is that when one player would get an OS/sniper/rockets his teammates would shoot him a bunch. Once the other team would kill that weakened player the other guys would grab his power weapon. Because power weapons are the easiest way to get good stats and in a stats based system that’s whats important.
>
> It just doesn’t work.

This happens anyway. Plenty of betrays for power weapons are happening in slayer all the time.

17

What rank are you in FFA? That’s as close a representation of your individual skill as you can get in H5 MM.

18

Onyx is no where near “easy” to obtain whatsoever

19

> 2533274980224085;17:
> What rank are you in FFA? That’s as close a representation of your individual skill as you can get in H5 MM.

FFA is the easiest playlist to get Onyx in, I don’t think it’s a good representation at all. I have some pretty awful friends that have gotten Onyx in FFA and the playlist doesn’t take into account communication, manipulating spawns, team awareness, etc. at all which are all extremely important parts of halo.