What is the Flood's goal from Precursor's view?

Hey, so I am a nerd and into these Sci-Fi universes and now played through the Master Chief Collection. I didn’t know that it had such a big lore, so I looked every terminal, cutscene etc. and also read almost every Halo related wiki-page. Although I think my english is quite good, I do have a problem to understand what the Precursors goal in flood form actually is. I am referring to the Precursor | Halo Alpha | Fandom page.

Can somebody explain to me, which of the (2.1, 2.2), (3.1, 3.2), (4.1, 4.2, 4.3) possibilities are true? Or maybe there is some point I didnt quite mention or understand yet?
Also, can somebody explain to me that quote from the wiki page:
“The remaining Precursors, driven to insanity by the betrayal of their creations (the Forerunners) instead embraced the disease they had accidentally birthed, guiding it to cease infecting humanity as if they had successfully immunized themselves”
Why is their goal now to cease humanity? It was the damn forerunners … and what is that “sucessfully immunized themselves” about, like for me it makes absolutely no sense. Who is immune? To what? Flood kills everybody…

From what I understand it is:

  1. Precursors get killed by Forerunners
  2. Some survivors dissolve into dust as failsafe to avoid extinction
    2.1 Space dust corrupts and becomes some virus by accident due to their insanity
    2.2 Space dust corrupts and becomes some virus for revenge on the Forerunners planned by Precursors
  3. The Primoridial survives
    3.1 While he is locked away, he as decides to evolve into gravemind
    3.2 He does not need to evolve into a gravemind because he already is a neural physics using being that can communicate
  4. Flood’s goal is to consume all living things
    4.1 Precursors are in full control of the flood (as graveminds), they want to clear the galaxy for a restart
    4.2 Precursors have no control. Gravemind / Flood is something new. They have no goal, the Precursors are gone will never come back.
    4.3 Precursors are in full control of the flood (as graveminds), but they are insane and consume all their created life because of the betrayal

. Humans find the space dust
. Flood -Yoinks!- up the galaxy
. Halos fire
. 100.000 years
. Master Chief Collection

Hope some fellow nerd can help me out here :smiley:

I’d explain it as a D&D game.

The Precursors are the Dungeon Master.

The physical organic beings that represented them in the universe as avatars, and the Flood the survivors of those avatars were turned into are the Non-Player-Characters. (The DM may have a Lich in the game trying to kill everyone and raise them as undead, but the DM doesn’t intend for the Lich to succeed, because the goal is to provide significant challenges that give the players the best story possible).

The sentient races of the galaxy are the Player-Characters.

The Precursors’ representations of themselves were attacked by the Forerunners, and the Precursors didn’t have their avatars defend themselves. The deaths of these avatars didn’t harm the Precursors in any way just like how a party killing the non-player-characters doesn’t harm the Dungeon Master in any way. After the Forerunners’ rage had run its course, the Precursors turned the surviving avatars into Flood, and sent the dust to worlds where ancient humanity would find them.

The Mantle is the duty of one race to safeguard the opportunity of the other races to the chance to achieve their maximum potential, and this explains the Precursors’ and the Flood’s actions throughout the narrative. I can provide further explanation of specific encounters if needed. The races are alowed to have extensive strive, and to make major missteps, but they aren’t permitted to prevent other races from achieving their maximum potential (The Forerunners tried to hold the other races down, and that violation of the Mantle is related to why the Precursors had the Flood wipe out the Forerunner civilization as soon as the Forerunners peaked.)

I think a DnD analogy is only enough to explain surface level knowledge, but I am actually interested in the correct canon lore because I want to actually understand the universe. If there is nothing written, then so be it. I have some questions on your comment:

“Precursors didn’t have their avatars defend themselves.” - So, they died because they knew they are transcendent beeings that live without a physical form? Therefore their phyiscal death does not harm them in any way? Or was their intention more like “yeah lets become space dust, we will return anyway, so who cares about some million years”?

“the Precursors turned the surviving avatars into Flood” - Does that mean, as they are a transcendent species, their soul, willings, believe and knowledge is not harmed in any way, they turned their current physical represantation into space dust KNOWING it will become the flood virus?

“and sent the dust to worlds where ancient humanity would find them.” - So they wanted to return to their previous form to give humans the mantle? Or they wanted them to give the dust to their pets to start the whole flood thing.

“The Mantle is the duty of one race to safeguard the opportunity of the other races to the chance to achieve their maximum potential, and this explains the Precursors’ and the Flood’s actions throughout the narrative” - Thats also one points I did not quite get, yet. For the mantle it is ok to have wars and all that stuff because it is part of life, but no race is allowed to completely wipe out an entire race. How does the flood fit in there? Its only purpose is to kill all races. That can’t be what the precursors wanted.

“the Precursors had the Flood wipe out the Forerunner” - So it was completely planned to become the deadly flood? Then the flood can be controlled by their transcendent will? Why does the flood keep existing after the Forerunners are gone? Are the Precursors gone for ever in their physical form, meaning that the milky way is their last galaxy to visit?

> 2535457630599979;3:
> I think a DnD analogy is only enough to explain surface level knowledge, but I am actually interested in the correct canon lore because I want to actually understand the universe. If there is nothing written, then so be it. I have some questions on your comment:
>
> “Precursors didn’t have their avatars defend themselves.” - So, they died because they knew they are transcendent beeings that live without a physical form? Therefore their phyiscal death does not harm them in any way? Or was their intention more like “yeah lets become space dust, we will return anyway, so who cares about some million years”?
>
> “the Precursors turned the surviving avatars into Flood” - Does that mean, as they are a transcendent species, their soul, willings, believe and knowledge is not harmed in any way, they turned their current physical represantation into space dust KNOWING it will become the flood virus?
>
> “and sent the dust to worlds where ancient humanity would find them.” - So they wanted to return to their previous form to give humans the mantle? Or they wanted them to give the dust to their pets to start the whole flood thing.
>
> “The Mantle is the duty of one race to safeguard the opportunity of the other races to the chance to achieve their maximum potential, and this explains the Precursors’ and the Flood’s actions throughout the narrative” - Thats also one points I did not quite get, yet. For the mantle it is ok to have wars and all that stuff because it is part of life, but no race is allowed to completely wipe out an entire race. How does the flood fit in there? Its only purpose is to kill all races. That can’t be what the precursors wanted.
>
> “the Precursors had the Flood wipe out the Forerunner” - So it was completely planned to become the deadly flood? Then the flood can be controlled by their transcendent will? Why does the flood keep existing after the Forerunners are gone? Are the Precursors gone for ever in their physical form, meaning that the milky way is their last galaxy to visit?

I believe the D&D analogy actually explains the deeper lore quite well. I didn’t go into every example because I was trying to keep my response concise.

Bornstellar gets a glimpse of a Precursor’s mind, seeing they existed “where life and death were meaningless, light and darkness twisted together, where the twin fists of time uncurled their fingers and joined in a clasp, so that nothing changed or ever would.” (Halo Cryptum pg 157) The Precursors existing as constants proves that the biological bodies that represented them are not actually them directly (like the difference between a dungeon mater and the non-player-characters being controlled… even if one of them is a self-insert character). This also explains why the Precursors are able to advance humanity back to a technological state after the Forerunners reduced them to barely sentient primitives (after the Precursors were supposedly gone).

We know the Precursors’ avatars didn’t fight back, and that the surviving avatars were either put in stasis (like the Primordial) or were turned to dust, put in jars, and those jar put on ships that all ended up on worlds where humanity would find them first. The Precursors being constants, having the twin fists of time (past and future) being synonymous to them, means the change of the dust into Flood can’t be unforseen. The Precursors either orchestrated the change themselves, or knew that would happen over time, and let it.

The Flood being found on human worlds, and unknowingly spread by humans, make humans responsible for unleashing this threat on the galaxy, so it is a test of worth to see what humanity does with that responsibility. Against the Flood directly, humanity fought valiantly, and were even self-sacrificial in their attempts to save the other species across the galaxy from the Flood. The Primordial while in humans’ custody also offered them a deal, where it would destroy the Forerunners for them, if they’d only release it. Again, humanity passed the test by refusing to unleash the Flood, even upon their enemies. This is why the Flood willfully stopped attacking humans part-way through the war, which had the additional benefit of creating the illusion that one of Humanity’s solutions actually worked, resulting in the Forerunners preserving humanity instead of exterminating them all, due to not being able to risk losing a potential cure for the Flood.

Regarding the Mantle: The Flood presents itself as being intent on consuming all races, but its actions don’t support that claim. It had the ability to consume everything in the galaxy within a handful of years if it had intended to, but it didn’t even use its best weapons until the final years, and it dawdled around for centuries. It played the villain, but it let the “heroes” go (like the D&D analogy, where the archlich is trying to create an infinite undead army, but the DM is specifically choosisng action that make the lich a threat, but holding back enough so it doesn’t win, because it’s supposed to be the players’ story). The Precursors are using the Flood to galvanize the mortal races into something better, through adversity.

When the Forerunners violated the Mantle, their sentence was death, only to be carried out in accordance with the Mantle, which meant they wouldn’t be executed until they had themselves, peaked. The Flood remainss after the Forerunners because it still serves to enforce the Mantle. Similarly to how it saved humanity from the Forerunners by first attacking them, then stopping, it later saves humanity again by denying the Covenant access to the fleet of Forerunner warships, and by splintering the Covenant with infighting.

The evidence also suggests that the actions of the Created are being directed by the Flood.

Okay, I think I get the idea of it. Thanks for that answer.
Would something like that: Screenshot by Lightshot describe it more or less accurately?
And wouldn’t that also mean, that the Flood would never actually “win”?

> 2535457630599979;5:
> Okay, I think I get the idea of it. Thanks for that answer.
> Would something like that: Screenshot by Lightshot describe it more or less accurately?
> And wouldn’t that also mean, that the Flood would never actually “win”?

Correct. If the Flood were to “win,” the game’s over and there’s no more story to tell, and no one left to experience it.

Well, nice. But then there are some problems in their overall design, I guess.
If they are allmighty (create life and all species) and all knowing (see past and future), whats the point of filling the universe with life?
They would create the forerunners, which they dont like, so they destroy them, create some humans, push them in the place THEY want them to be, intervene with everything that does not fit to THEIR mantle. Basically, they are playing DnD with themself, if you want to put it that way. They are not only the flood, they are also the players and heros, since they as allmighty entity created the players and push them to the direction they want them to go. Example: Forerunners reset humans -> Precursors just push them up again. They only delayed their peak, which should be allowed.

If they are all-knowing, they would see the betrayal and everything that will ever happen.
If they are allmighty, they could simply create life that does not need a caretaker to enforce the mantle, as everybody by default knows this is the one rule they can not break and give them freedom for everything else.

Considering their only drive is to fill the universe with life accoring to the mantle:

  • Either they didn’t know the forerunners will not be worthy until some point (not all-knowing)
  • or they couldn’t change that trait and make them worthy while creating them (not allmighty)

So the only explanation for me is, that they are not all knowing and not allmighty… they have their limits. The universe itself has to be random, same goes for their created life. The future is unwritten and cannot be foreseen due to the randomness. Otherwise, everything has to be destined and as I said they would “play DnD with themself”

So is this the point where you have to say “God moves in mysterious ways.” and accept there is this theodicy-like plothole or is it stated somewhere?

> 2535457630599979;7:
> Well, nice. But then there are some problems in their overall design, I guess.
> If they are allmighty (create life and all species) and all knowing (see past and future), whats the point of filling the universe with life?
> They would create the forerunners, which they dont like, so they destroy them, create some humans, push them in the place THEY want them to be, intervene with everything that does not fit to THEIR mantle. Basically, they are playing DnD with themself, if you want to put it that way. They are not only the flood, they are also the players and heros, since they as allmighty entity created the players and push them to the direction they want them to go. Example: Forerunners reset humans → Precursors just push them up again. They only delayed their peak, which should be allowed.
>
> If they are all-knowing, they would see the betrayal and everything that will ever happen.
> If they are allmighty, they could simply create life that does not need a caretaker to enforce the mantle, as everybody by default knows this is the one rule they can not break and give them freedom for everything else.
>
> Considering their only drive is to fill the universe with life accoring to the mantle:
> - Either they didn’t know the forerunners will not be worthy until some point (not all-knowing)
> - or they couldn’t change that trait and make them worthy while creating them (not allmighty)
>
> So the only explanation for me is, that they are not all knowing and not allmighty… they have their limits. The universe itself has to be random, same goes for their created life. The future is unwritten and cannot be foreseen due to the randomness. Otherwise, everything has to be destined and as I said they would “play DnD with themself”
>
> So is this the point where you have to say “God moves in mysterious ways.” and accept there is this theodicy-like plothole or is it stated somewhere?

Why do anything? There’s satisfaction in creating something and seeing it work the way it was intended. Much like a Dungeon Master writing a campaign, it’s enjoyable to watch the player-characters discover the world and interact with it. The Precursors’ avatars provided direction (like training wheels on a bike), then the Precursors withdrew their level of interaction when the Forerunners rebelled, and used the Flood for course-correction, but the purpose of the Mantle is for the next stage of the galaxy to no longer require course correction, and for the sentient races to reach their maximum potential under the guidence of one of their own, the holders of the Mantle, humanity.

The Forerunners created a false Mantle, holding the other races down, preventing them from ever reaching their full potential. The Forerunners were not only stealing the technology and planets of the other races, they were taking the genetic aspects they found favorable and incorporating them into themselves. Without the removal of the Forerunner, none of the other races would ever reach their full potential. That’s why the Precursors saw fit to remove the Forerunners entirely. But there’s more nuance than that. The Forerunners weren’t their own species. They were humans before they altered their biology to the point where they were no longer recognizable. The Precursors created Humans to give the Mantle to, but humanity broke into two factions. One staying true which would eventually be given the Mantle, and one that gave in to hubris, and in its corruption was deemed unfit. Humans weren’t plan “b”, they’re plan “a” and the Forerunners just didn’t accept that they weren’t chosen. (There’s some slight similarities here to the Biblical story of Cain and Abel. Both made offerings to God, but only Abel gave his best and pleased God. Cain became murderously angry even though his gift not being accepted was his own fault)

All knowing: not worried about the Forerunners rebellion because the Precursors know how the whole timeline will play out, long before the Forerunners ever rebelled. This actually explains why the Precursors didn’t bother having any of their avatars fight back, even though they very easily could have.

All mighty: They WANTED life to develop a certain way. It’s sort of like programming a simulation where you include some randomized aspect to make it more interesting, even though you are able to make it all work perfectly from the beginning. This random factor is free will, which gives meaning to struggles, which wouldn’t exist if everything were just puppets.

The irony is that assuming an eternal being would view the universe from our perspective is extremely arrogant and small minded. A mortal life is such a tiny speck in the universe, that we can’t see the big picture. It’s fact, not a hand-wave to recognize that there’s a whole lot more we don’t know than what we do know.