What is the Battle Rifle's Niche?

Games Halo Infinite
1

Is it supposed to be an all purpose weapon like it was in Halo 2? Is it supposed to be more of a Marksman weapon like it was portrayed in Halo 3 and other media like Contact Harvest?

Either option leaves us in a bind when we jump ahead to Halo 5 where we have an all purpose Magnum and a Marksman DMR. In terms of narrative the AR is still portrayed as the primary service weapon. So I have to ask what purpose it serves in either gameplay or narrative because as of the last two games the it seems like it only exists because it is a fan favorite not because it is a unique weapon in its own right. Going by 343’s own words it is supposed to be effective at “Mid range” but the Magnum, Carbine, and Light Rifle are also perfectly capable at mid range so I don’t see how that sets it apart from any of the other weapons. P.S. The magnum, carbine, and LR have their own issues, but that is another thread.

Some might argue that the BR is just supposed to be an upgrade to the Magnum like it more or less was in H4, in the H5 beta, and even to a degree at launch, but I don’t care for that type of design for a multitude of reasons. 1.) When you can only hold two weapons regardless of size or shape at any given time, there is no place in the sandbox for a weapon that is meant to be thrown away. 2.) Picking up an objectively better weapon in all cases isn’t a “choice” its an obligation. It is just pointless busywork in between respawning and getting back into the game 3.) It will inevitably lead to more snowballing in Matchmaking.

The BR is far from the only problem in the sandbox, but I think we realistically only have 3 good choices for what to do with the BR.
Option 1: The BR becomes the starting weapon, the Magnum gets a new niche, (Gunfighter? ODST Pistol?).

Option 2: The BR becomes a niche pickup and takes the DMR’s role with a bigger scope and being more unwieldy at close range. DMR removed.

Option 3: Remove the BR. We already have all our bases covered for basic UNSC weapons without it, but I expect this would be the least popular option.

Some folks might say we don’t need to change anything and a bigger sandbox is better, but 343 only has so much time and resources design, implement, and balance so many weapons before the game ships. Everyone has their favorites, but it just isn’t realistic to try and keep everything and personally I would rather have each weapon in the sandbox be truly unique rather than have slots filled with an iteration of an existing weapon. We also have to consider leaving room for new additions to the sandbox as well.

That all being said if someone has some creative solutions I would love to hear them.

2

i think the br should be the designated mid range gun. the carbine should sit between the dmr and br, the lightrifle sligthly above the dmr (the sentinel beam would be the forerunner weapon in between the light rifle and supressor, being strong but requiring expert tracking).
the pistol should be a relatively weak weapon, but with a higher non red reticule range than the br and a shorter ttk if spamed at close ranges. The pistol would be the go to backup weapon for all cases. a jack of all trades, master of non.

3

If I had to choose between one of the three options I’d veer towards the 1st one.
I’ve always seen the Magnum as more of a close range precision weapon. Being that its a pistol, I think it should be comparatively weak to most weapons but extremely good at what it does which is of course quickly landing precision shots in close quarters, giving it a comfortable niche.
Basically a mix of the Magnum of 3 and Gunfighter-M of 5. Meaning, you wouldn’t be able to zoom in with it and its damage wouldn’t be great but the fire-rate combined with its short-range accuracy is what would truly set it apart. Its accuracy would start feeling like that of H4 from mid-long range and the damage from the shots would be comparable to ODST’s.

The BR is still currently the only (consistently) burst-firing precision weapon which gives it some personality but I definitely agree its having an identity crisis in Halo 5 which is hopefully solved in 6. H4’s version of the BR was my personal favorite to use but H5’s has been by far my least favorite.

4

Pistol = close- mid
Carbine = mid - close (between pistol and BR)
BR = mid
DMR = mid-long.
LR = long

Warzone throws everything listed here out the window, because you can use the scopes and traits to build things like long range BRs and close range DMRs.

/ thread

5

> 2614366390849210;4:
> Pistol = close- mid
> Carbine = mid - close (between pistol and BR)
> BR = mid
> DMR = mid-long.
> LR = long
>
> Warzone throws everything listed here out the window, because you can use the scopes and traits to build things like long range BRs and close range DMRs.
>
> / thread

A niche is more than simply the range it is effective at. Range can of course be an important factor, but its far from the only one.

The way a particular weapon is “intended” to be used for not always the same as how it actually ends up being utilized. In Halo 5 what we actually had was:
Pistol= a versatile precision weapon
Carbine= a versatile Covenant precision weapon
BR= Another versatile precision weapon
DMR= A slightly longer range versatile precision weapon
LR= A versatile precision weapon that is a cut above the rest

These weapons are all tripping over each other in more or less the same niche. The only reason to ever pick one up over the others is picking which one is statistically the best, which isn’t very interesting. The actual range distances between this weapons are so minimal that said differences become meaningless.

There are things that we could do to diversify the sandbox, the question for this particular thread was what to do with the BR.

Is the BR a versatile precision weapon you spawn with? Like Halo 2 or 3?

Or is it supposed to be a niche pickup weapon? Like the DMR is supposed to be on paper?

The answer to that question informs a lot about how the rest of the sandbox needs to be adjusted.

6

Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.

So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.

7

> 2533274879757912;6:
> Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.
>
> So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.

No one is really changing their playstyle when swtiching between these weapon, they are changing how often they pull the trigger. Fair enough that some people prefer burst fire weapons of single shot, I have a preference for single shot utility weapons myself, but that fact alone doesn’t justify filling the game with 5 near identical weapons.

In the first place the BR was effectively just a CE Magnum with a rifle skin. Changing from single shot to burst and increasing the TTK did not fundamentally change the weapons role.

Ultimately the preference I am curious about is whether people would rather spawn with a BR more or less as is or if they would rather see it take over the DMR’s role as a “Marksman” weapon with a bigger scope? Because the BR in particular has felt rather superfluous in terms of both gameplay and narrative. As of the most recent Halo game the BR only seems to get included due to nostalgia.

8

> 2533274819446242;7:
> > 2533274879757912;6:
> > Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.
> >
> > So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.
>
> No one is really changing their playstyle when swtiching between these weapon, they are changing how often they pull the trigger. Fair enough that some people prefer burst fire weapons of single shot, I have a preference for single shot utility weapons myself, but that fact alone doesn’t justify filling the game with 5 near identical weapons.
>
> In the first place the BR was effectively just a CE Magnum with a rifle skin. Changing from single shot to burst and increasing the TTK did not fundamentally change the weapons role.
>
> Ultimately the preference I am curious about is whether people would rather spawn with a BR more or less as is or if they would rather see it take over the DMR’s role as a “Marksman” weapon with a bigger scope? Because the BR in particular has felt rather superfluous in terms of both gameplay and narrative. As of the most recent Halo game the BR only seems to get included due to nostalgia.

Then maybe a lot of people are not like me then; because I play drastically different when I have a BR than I do with a DMR, I play differently with a Carbine as well. But if the complaint is about having weapons that are so similar, then why are you not complaining about having so many single shot semi-automatic weapons? There are very few burst shot weapons, but there are quite a few single fire SA’s.

Halo 5’s vast array of weapons to choose from was a bit problematic as it meant there would always be a portion of the weapons that hardly get used because there was always something better you could pick from. This of course extended to the starter weapons with all the customized choices you could earn, it left a large chunk unused.

9

> 2533274879757912;8:
> > 2533274819446242;7:
> > > 2533274879757912;6:
> > > Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.
> > >
> > > So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.
> >
> > No one is really changing their playstyle when swtiching between these weapon, they are changing how often they pull the trigger. Fair enough that some people prefer burst fire weapons of single shot, I have a preference for single shot utility weapons myself, but that fact alone doesn’t justify filling the game with 5 near identical weapons.
> >
> > In the first place the BR was effectively just a CE Magnum with a rifle skin. Changing from single shot to burst and increasing the TTK did not fundamentally change the weapons role.
> >
> > Ultimately the preference I am curious about is whether people would rather spawn with a BR more or less as is or if they would rather see it take over the DMR’s role as a “Marksman” weapon with a bigger scope? Because the BR in particular has felt rather superfluous in terms of both gameplay and narrative. As of the most recent Halo game the BR only seems to get included due to nostalgia.
>
> Then maybe a lot of people are not like me then; because I play drastically different when I have a BR than I do with a DMR, I play differently with a Carbine as well. But if the complaint is about having weapons that are so similar, then why are you not complaining about having so many single shot semi-automatic weapons? There are very few burst shot weapons, but there are quite a few single fire SA’s.
>
> Halo 5’s vast array of weapons to choose from was a bit problematic as it meant there would always be a portion of the weapons that hardly get used because there was always something better you could pick from. This of course extended to the starter weapons with all the customized choices you could earn, it left a large chunk unused.

I do complain about single shot weapons, in fact I have serious issues with a lot of the Halo sandbox but whether whether or not a weapon is single shot or burst fire is not actually all that important. I am focusing on the BR in this thread because more than the other weapons it feels like it has lost its place terms of both narrative and gameplay. Its not a service rifle like the AR, its not a Marksman weapon like the DMR, and the Magnum does 90% of the same job as the BR so where does that leave the BR? Pre-patch BR was just a (marginally) better Magnum so switching to the BR wasn’t an interesting choice. Post Patch BR was simply left in the Magnum’s dust.

The starting weapon is the focal point of the Halo experience and whichever weapon fills that role changes how we would design the rest of the sandbox. Do we bring back the BR as the starting weapon ala H2/3? In that case I would want to see the Magnum lean more heavily into the “Gunfigher” type of design and give the DMR even longer range(4/5X scope). The Covenant and Forerunner precision weapons would need their own adjustments, but those can happen regardless of which starting weapon we go with. We could also keep the Utility Magnum from Halo 5, but that means the BR needs a new niche if it is going to be worth picking up. In that case I would rather remove the DMR and standard BR and replace them with the Sentinel Scope BR(more or less).

Players should be spawning with a versatile weapon and having the option to pick up truly unique weapons off the map to specialize. I want real choices not slight variations on the same flavor. I realize everyone has their favorites, but there is only so much time and resources available to build a sandbox that we don’t have the luxury of keeping absolutely everything while still having enough room for new weapons to find a place as well.

10

> 2533274819446242;9:
> > 2533274879757912;8:
> > > 2533274819446242;7:
> > > > 2533274879757912;6:
> > > > Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.
> > > >
> > > > So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.
> > >
> > > No one is really changing their playstyle when swtiching between these weapon, they are changing how often they pull the trigger. Fair enough that some people prefer burst fire weapons of single shot, I have a preference for single shot utility weapons myself, but that fact alone doesn’t justify filling the game with 5 near identical weapons.
> > >
> > > In the first place the BR was effectively just a CE Magnum with a rifle skin. Changing from single shot to burst and increasing the TTK did not fundamentally change the weapons role.
> > >
> > > Ultimately the preference I am curious about is whether people would rather spawn with a BR more or less as is or if they would rather see it take over the DMR’s role as a “Marksman” weapon with a bigger scope? Because the BR in particular has felt rather superfluous in terms of both gameplay and narrative. As of the most recent Halo game the BR only seems to get included due to nostalgia.
> >
> > Then maybe a lot of people are not like me then; because I play drastically different when I have a BR than I do with a DMR, I play differently with a Carbine as well. But if the complaint is about having weapons that are so similar, then why are you not complaining about having so many single shot semi-automatic weapons? There are very few burst shot weapons, but there are quite a few single fire SA’s.
> >
> > Halo 5’s vast array of weapons to choose from was a bit problematic as it meant there would always be a portion of the weapons that hardly get used because there was always something better you could pick from. This of course extended to the starter weapons with all the customized choices you could earn, it left a large chunk unused.
>
> I do complain about single shot weapons, in fact I have serious issues with a lot of the Halo sandbox but whether whether or not a weapon is single shot or burst fire is not actually all that important. I am focusing on the BR in this thread because more than the other weapons it feels like it has lost its place terms of both narrative and gameplay. Its not a service rifle like the AR, its not a Marksman weapon like the DMR, and the Magnum does 90% of the same job as the BR so where does that leave the BR? Pre-patch BR was just a (marginally) better Magnum so switching to the BR wasn’t an interesting choice. Post Patch BR was simply left in the Magnum’s dust.
>
> The starting weapon is the focal point of the Halo experience and whichever weapon fills that role changes how we would design the rest of the sandbox. Do we bring back the BR as the starting weapon ala H2/3? In that case I would want to see the Magnum lean more heavily into the “Gunfigher” type of design and give the DMR even longer range(4/5X scope). The Covenant and Forerunner precision weapons would need their own adjustments, but those can happen regardless of which starting weapon we go with. We could also keep the Utility Magnum from Halo 5, but that means the BR needs a new niche if it is going to be worth picking up. In that case I would rather remove the DMR and standard BR and replace them with the Sentinel Scope BR(more or less).
>
> Players should be spawning with a versatile weapon and having the option to pick up truly unique weapons off the map to specialize. I want real choices not slight variations on the same flavor. I realize everyone has their favorites, but there is only so much time and resources available to build a sandbox that we don’t have the luxury of keeping absolutely everything while still having enough room for new weapons to find a place as well.

Well, I guess it all depends on how 343i proceeds and what kind of sandbox we end up getting. There are 3 different factions now, so you have 3 whole sets of weapons that are going to be similar and different depending on the weapon. Personally, I hope they limit the weapon choices because there were quite a few that just seemed unnecessary. Like the second tier weapons; they were short lived because it was pretty easy to get ahold of the tier 3 weapons. So cutting out the second tier can clean up about 50+ weapons from the list.

But for starting weapons, who knows what they’ll do. They might end up keeping all of the weapons, BR included, or they might pick and choose what they want. I’m not exactly sure what their game plan is or what they would consider niche or unnecessary.

11

> 2533274879757912;10:
> > 2533274819446242;9:
> > > 2533274879757912;8:
> > > > 2533274819446242;7:
> > > > > 2533274879757912;6:
> > > > > Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.
> > > >
> > > > No one is really changing their playstyle when swtiching between these weapon, they are changing how often they pull the trigger. Fair enough that some people prefer burst fire weapons of single shot, I have a preference for single shot utility weapons myself, but that fact alone doesn’t justify filling the game with 5 near identical weapons.
> > > >
> > > > In the first place the BR was effectively just a CE Magnum with a rifle skin. Changing from single shot to burst and increasing the TTK did not fundamentally change the weapons role.
> > > >
> > > > Ultimately the preference I am curious about is whether people would rather spawn with a BR more or less as is or if they would rather see it take over the DMR’s role as a “Marksman” weapon with a bigger scope? Because the BR in particular has felt rather superfluous in terms of both gameplay and narrative. As of the most recent Halo game the BR only seems to get included due to nostalgia.
> > >
> > > Then maybe a lot of people are not like me then; because I play drastically different when I have a BR than I do with a DMR, I play differently with a Carbine as well. But if the complaint is about having weapons that are so similar, then why are you not complaining about having so many single shot semi-automatic weapons? There are very few burst shot weapons, but there are quite a few single fire SA’s.
> > >
> > > Halo 5’s vast array of weapons to choose from was a bit problematic as it meant there would always be a portion of the weapons that hardly get used because there was always something better you could pick from. This of course extended to the starter weapons with all the customized choices you could earn, it left a large chunk unused.
> >
> > I do complain about single shot weapons, in fact I have serious issues with a lot of the Halo sandbox but whether whether or not a weapon is single shot or burst fire is not actually all that important. I am focusing on the BR in this thread because more than the other weapons it feels like it has lost its place terms of both narrative and gameplay. Its not a service rifle like the AR, its not a Marksman weapon like the DMR, and the Magnum does 90% of the same job as the BR so where does that leave the BR? Pre-patch BR was just a (marginally) better Magnum so switching to the BR wasn’t an interesting choice. Post Patch BR was simply left in the Magnum’s dust.
> >
> > The starting weapon is the focal point of the Halo experience and whichever weapon fills that role changes how we would design the rest of the sandbox. Do we bring back the BR as the starting weapon ala H2/3? In that case I would want to see the Magnum lean more heavily into the “Gunfigher” type of design and give the DMR even longer range(4/5X scope). The Covenant and Forerunner precision weapons would need their own adjustments, but those can happen regardless of which starting weapon we go with. We could also keep the Utility Magnum from Halo 5, but that means the BR needs a new niche if it is going to be worth picking up. In that case I would rather remove the DMR and standard BR and replace them with the Sentinel Scope BR(more or less).
> >
> > Players should be spawning with a versatile weapon and having the option to pick up truly unique weapons off the map to specialize. I want real choices not slight variations on the same flavor. I realize everyone has their favorites, but there is only so much time and resources available to build a sandbox that we don’t have the luxury of keeping absolutely everything while still having enough room for new weapons to find a place as well.
>
> Well, I guess it all depends on how 343i proceeds and what kind of sandbox we end up getting. There are 3 different factions now, so you have 3 whole sets of weapons that are going to be similar and different depending on the weapon. Personally, I hope they limit the weapon choices because there were quite a few that just seemed unnecessary. Like the second tier weapons; they were short lived because it was pretty easy to get ahold of the tier 3 weapons. So cutting out the second tier can clean up about 50+ weapons from the list.
>
> But for starting weapons, who knows what they’ll do. They might end up keeping all of the weapons, BR included, or they might pick and choose what they want. I’m not exactly sure what their game plan is or what they would consider niche or unnecessary.

The thing is we don’t actually have to make any deep cuts. Although I have had my issues with the sandbox over the years, between the past games, req weapons, and even mods we have all the tools to make a diverse and unique sandbox. We just have to hold the devs to a higher standard than reskinning the same handful of weapon archtypes over and over again.

12

> 2533274819446242;11:
> > 2533274879757912;10:
> > > 2533274819446242;9:
> > > > 2533274879757912;8:
> > > > > 2533274819446242;7:
> > > > > > 2533274879757912;6:
> > > > > > Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mid range combat. Each weapon that fills that role can feel pretty different person to person. The Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle all have one similarity in common: they are all single fire so long as we’re talking mid to long range. The Battle Rifle however is always a burst fire which some people prefer over single shot semi-automatic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I suppose that’s just it; it is designed to fit certain playstyles where people just generally prefer the BR. It’s really good in a small Swat map.
> > > > >
> > > > > No one is really changing their playstyle when swtiching between these weapon, they are changing how often they pull the trigger. Fair enough that some people prefer burst fire weapons of single shot, I have a preference for single shot utility weapons myself, but that fact alone doesn’t justify filling the game with 5 near identical weapons.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the first place the BR was effectively just a CE Magnum with a rifle skin. Changing from single shot to burst and increasing the TTK did not fundamentally change the weapons role.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ultimately the preference I am curious about is whether people would rather spawn with a BR more or less as is or if they would rather see it take over the DMR’s role as a “Marksman” weapon with a bigger scope? Because the BR in particular has felt rather superfluous in terms of both gameplay and narrative. As of the most recent Halo game the BR only seems to get included due to nostalgia.
> > > >
> > > > Then maybe a lot of people are not like me then; because I play drastically different when I have a BR than I do with a DMR, I play differently with a Carbine as well. But if the complaint is about having weapons that are so similar, then why are you not complaining about having so many single shot semi-automatic weapons? There are very few burst shot weapons, but there are quite a few single fire SA’s.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 5’s vast array of weapons to choose from was a bit problematic as it meant there would always be a portion of the weapons that hardly get used because there was always something better you could pick from. This of course extended to the starter weapons with all the customized choices you could earn, it left a large chunk unused.
> > >
> > > I do complain about single shot weapons, in fact I have serious issues with a lot of the Halo sandbox but whether whether or not a weapon is single shot or burst fire is not actually all that important. I am focusing on the BR in this thread because more than the other weapons it feels like it has lost its place terms of both narrative and gameplay. Its not a service rifle like the AR, its not a Marksman weapon like the DMR, and the Magnum does 90% of the same job as the BR so where does that leave the BR? Pre-patch BR was just a (marginally) better Magnum so switching to the BR wasn’t an interesting choice. Post Patch BR was simply left in the Magnum’s dust.
> > >
> > > The starting weapon is the focal point of the Halo experience and whichever weapon fills that role changes how we would design the rest of the sandbox. Do we bring back the BR as the starting weapon ala H2/3? In that case I would want to see the Magnum lean more heavily into the “Gunfigher” type of design and give the DMR even longer range(4/5X scope). The Covenant and Forerunner precision weapons would need their own adjustments, but those can happen regardless of which starting weapon we go with. We could also keep the Utility Magnum from Halo 5, but that means the BR needs a new niche if it is going to be worth picking up. In that case I would rather remove the DMR and standard BR and replace them with the Sentinel Scope BR(more or less).
> > >
> > > Players should be spawning with a versatile weapon and having the option to pick up truly unique weapons off the map to specialize. I want real choices not slight variations on the same flavor. I realize everyone has their favorites, but there is only so much time and resources available to build a sandbox that we don’t have the luxury of keeping absolutely everything while still having enough room for new weapons to find a place as well.
> >
> > Well, I guess it all depends on how 343i proceeds and what kind of sandbox we end up getting. There are 3 different factions now, so you have 3 whole sets of weapons that are going to be similar and different depending on the weapon. Personally, I hope they limit the weapon choices because there were quite a few that just seemed unnecessary. Like the second tier weapons; they were short lived because it was pretty easy to get ahold of the tier 3 weapons. So cutting out the second tier can clean up about 50+ weapons from the list.
> >
> > But for starting weapons, who knows what they’ll do. They might end up keeping all of the weapons, BR included, or they might pick and choose what they want. I’m not exactly sure what their game plan is or what they would consider niche or unnecessary.
>
> The thing is we don’t actually have to make any deep cuts. Although I have had my issues with the sandbox over the years, between the past games, req weapons, and even mods we have all the tools to make a diverse and unique sandbox. We just have to hold the devs to a higher standard than reskinning the same handful of weapon archtypes over and over again.

The only thing is that you can’t please everyone unfortunately, I am sure you know this. So if they do everything right to please you and the other players who think like you, they’re going to be stepping on someone else’s toes. We can only wait for the game to either come out or show us what’s been done so far.

13

It is my belief that every weapon in the sandbox should have its viable place, even if just a niche one or has to share that with another weapon. As such, I’m in the camp that would actually like as many weapons as possible. With this age of gaming I don’t think its out of the question to add more content like this overtime. Seeing as we’re talking about all the precision weapons now I’ll expand my thoughts on the rest of this class of armaments.

BR:
Your good Ol’ mid-range jack-of-all-trades, master of none precision weapon. Usable in close, comfortable in mid, and still functional but increasingly unreliable in long. Those who enjoy the convenience of precision weapons in past Halo games will probably most enjoy this rifle. This might make the BR end up being one of the most used weapons but I think thats okay so long as its not the best of its class in any regard. Just means if you could only use one weapon in your loadout then the BR would likely be your best bet, which is certainly a strength in of itself.
Basically OP, I’m going with the route of it being your ‘starter’ weapon as you were thinking…

DMR:
As the weapon currently stands, it is just too easy to use for how much range it can cover and damage it does. Basically, the goal is to make it feel like your using a sniper rifle but with the lower power of a standard precision weapon. Ideally, I’d make changes to it so it is at a very clear disadvantage against any weapon at close range, in the form of difficulty landing shots, just like snipers in the same range with unskilled hands, except now you’d have to worry about more than 1-2 shots. At mid range it would start becoming more usable but would be in a sort of grey area as a lot of other weapons could still function within this range as well, making the DMR very difficult to be successful with in this range but totally workable in skilled hands. Perhaps this could be because of a mixture of a very long range scope and an incredibly small reticle+low aim-assist? Long range is where this weapon would truly find success, as no other weapon would have the combined range, quickness, and accuracy that it has there.

Carbine:
The most potent mid-range precision weapon with the lowest kill-time compared to all the others because of the high amount of skill needed to pull it off successfully. Has a comparatively high accuracy spread compared to the others when unzoomed and higher spread than the BR per-shot when zoomed. While the BR would be its main competition in terms of covering a similar distance, the aforementioned traits of the weapon should be enough to set it apart from the BR. While these attributes might make it seem better than the Magnum (with the changes for it I suggested in an earlier post), the Magnum would have the advantage of being stealthier and having greater flinching power.

LR:
This one was tough as its nearly in direct competition with the DMR but the idea is while it maybe slightly more versatile, its more subtle weaknesses are that its reticles are less pinpoint than the DMR, zoomed fire-rate is the slowest of all precision weapons, and its shots are very apparent in revealing your firing position. Which all means a clever reactive opponent will be able to get out of the way more easily and immediately know at least your general location. The reason the weapon has more versatility is most likely because its unzoomed reticle is much more forgiving than that of the DMR. If needed, perhaps it should have no hitscan, working like the LR used by the enemies in H5.
Personally, I’d prefer if they did something quite different with the unscoped fire. Perhaps make it fire like an auto when not zoomed? Maybe similar to how the Suppressor worked in H4?

NR:
If the Needle Rifle were to come back it’d be the weakest of the precision weapons, with the longest time to kill, but also the most noob friendly with its auto-fire from simply holding down the trigger and the supercombine after landing multiple shots to the body. Would be most used in mid range as its damage is too low in close and at long range the accuracy is comparatively lacking to the other precision rifles. Campaign-wise, the supercombine would give it extra utility over the others.

14

> 2533274879757912;12:
> The only thing is that you can’t please everyone unfortunately, I am sure you know this. So if they do everything right to please you and the other players who think like you, they’re going to be stepping on someone else’s toes. We can only wait for the game to either come out or show us what’s been done so far.

I don’t really understand who these other players are supposed to be. I don’t even want a drastically smaller sandbox, all I want is for the sandbox we have greater variation, I don’t really see the downside. Are we going to hold ourselves back for the sake of player who for some reason want a more derivative sandbox? Or hold ourselves back for the sake of players who have unrealistic expectations of keeping absolutely every weapon?

The req weapons alone are enough to tell me that 343 has the ability to add creative twists on existing weaponry, they just need to apply those types ideas to the “normal” weapons(in a more balanced fashion) without holding them hostage behind P2W mechanics and campaign easter eggs. We really don’t have to settle and its better to voice an opinion about design philosophy sooner rather than later.

15

> 2533274819446242;14:
> > 2533274879757912;12:
> > The only thing is that you can’t please everyone unfortunately, I am sure you know this. So if they do everything right to please you and the other players who think like you, they’re going to be stepping on someone else’s toes. We can only wait for the game to either come out or show us what’s been done so far.
>
> I don’t really understand who these other players are supposed to be. I don’t even want a drastically smaller sandbox, all I want is for the sandbox we have greater variation, I don’t really see the downside. Are we going to hold ourselves back for the sake of player who for some reason want a more derivative sandbox? Or hold ourselves back for the sake of players who have unrealistic expectations of keeping absolutely every weapon?
>
> The req weapons alone are enough to tell me that 343 has the ability to add creative twists on existing weaponry, they just need to apply those types ideas to the “normal” weapons(in a more balanced fashion) without holding them hostage behind P2W mechanics and campaign easter eggs. We really don’t have to settle and its better to voice an opinion about design philosophy sooner rather than later.

All I am saying is that no matter what decision they make, someone isn’t going to be happy about the choices made. That’s literally all I meant by that comment.

16

In H5 I don’t really know its purpose. At range the carbine, DMR, and light rifle are all better, at mid to close the magnum is better. Pre-tuning update the BR was the go to mid-close range precision weapon, it was better than the starting magnum. It was even good at long range, just a great pick up all around. Now it’s useless. Hope they fix that for Infinite because it killed a lot of my enjoyment for H5 and I stopped playing.

17

> 2533274819446242;5:
> > 2614366390849210;4:
> > Pistol = close- mid
> > Carbine = mid - close (between pistol and BR)
> > BR = mid
> > DMR = mid-long.
> > LR = long
> >
> > Warzone throws everything listed here out the window, because you can use the scopes and traits to build things like long range BRs and close range DMRs.
> >
> > / thread
>
> A niche is more than simply the range it is effective at. Range can of course be an important factor, but its far from the only one.
>
> The way a particular weapon is “intended” to be used for not always the same as how it actually ends up being utilized. In Halo 5 what we actually had was:
> Pistol= a versatile precision weapon
> Carbine= a versatile Covenant precision weapon
> BR= Another versatile precision weapon
> DMR= A slightly longer range versatile precision weapon
> LR= A versatile precision weapon that is a cut above the rest
>
> These weapons are all tripping over each other in more or less the same niche. The only reason to ever pick one up over the others is picking which one is statistically the best, which isn’t very interesting. The actual range distances between this weapons are so minimal that said differences become meaningless.
>
> There are things that we could do to diversify the sandbox, the question for this particular thread was what to do with the BR.
>
> Is the BR a versatile precision weapon you spawn with? Like Halo 2 or 3?
>
> Or is it supposed to be a niche pickup weapon? Like the DMR is supposed to be on paper?
>
> The answer to that question informs a lot about how the rest of the sandbox needs to be adjusted.

I think the “niche” you’re looking for is better evaluated as the performance against shields and unshielded opponents.

The BR is only ok at stripping shields, but extremely deadly in almost any circumstance when an opponent is unshielded. I would argue it’s niche is that it’s the most effective precision weapon against unshielded opponents, with the largest window of effective range in this regard.

Also, I think being the only burst fire load out weapon is enough of a niche that we don’t need to worry about more.

I hope the HI BR lands somewhere between the H5 and H3 BR.

18

> 2614366390849210;17:
> I think the “niche” you’re looking for is better evaluated as the performance against shields and unshielded opponents.
>
> The BR is only ok at stripping shields, but extremely deadly in almost any circumstance when an opponent is unshielded. I would argue it’s niche is that it’s the most effective precision weapon against unshielded opponents, with the largest window of effective range in this regard.
>
> Also, I think being the only burst fire load out weapon is enough of a niche that we don’t need to worry about more.
>
> I hope the HI BR lands somewhere between the H5 and H3 BR.

If Halo 5 is any indication burst fire clearly isn’t enough of a difference when players already spawn with a utility Magnum. Burst fire is mostly an aesthetic difference and the few instances where it can be a factor vs unshielded targets it ultimately doesn’t amount to much because you have to deal with shields more often than not.

We can and should expect more from our weapon sandbox overall, but that doesn’t necesarily mean that the BR has to radically change. So I’ll ask you this:

In an Arena setting, would you rather…
1.) Spawn with a BR where you have “gunfighter” Magnums and “Sentinel” DMR’s on the Map? Or…
2.) Spawn with a Utility Magnum(CE/H5) where you would pickup “Sentinel” BR’s on the maps?(DMR removed)

19

> 2533274819446242;18:
> > 2614366390849210;17:
> > I think the “niche” you’re looking for is better evaluated as the performance against shields and unshielded opponents.
> >
> > The BR is only ok at stripping shields, but extremely deadly in almost any circumstance when an opponent is unshielded. I would argue it’s niche is that it’s the most effective precision weapon against unshielded opponents, with the largest window of effective range in this regard.
> >
> > Also, I think being the only burst fire load out weapon is enough of a niche that we don’t need to worry about more.
> >
> > I hope the HI BR lands somewhere between the H5 and H3 BR.
>
> If Halo 5 is any indication burst fire clearly isn’t enough of a difference when players already spawn with a utility Magnum. Burst fire is mostly an aesthetic difference and the few instances where it can be a factor vs unshielded targets it ultimately doesn’t amount to much because you have to deal with shields more often than not.
>
> We can and should expect more from our weapon sandbox overall, but that doesn’t necesarily mean that the BR has to radically change. So I’ll ask you this:
>
> In an Arena setting, would you rather…
> 1.) Spawn with a BR where you have “gunfighter” Magnums and “Sentinel” DMR’s on the Map? Or…
> 2.) Spawn with a Utility Magnum(CE/H5) where you would pickup “Sentinel” BR’s on the maps?(DMR removed)

I guess I don’t understand why you want to get rid of one or the other? They serve very different roles, and have very different traits. Definitely different enough to justify them both being in the weapon sandbox.

I want it to be pretty much like H5.

In big team, you start with a BR.
In 4v4 arena, your starting guns are mode dependent. In Slayer, you get an AR/ pistol. In BR Slayer you spawn with a BR/AR.

DMR and BR should both be map pickups, with the count being dependent on the mode.

I don’t agree the sandbox needs drastic changes. Weapon balance and performance was one of H5’s multiplayer strengths.

20

> 2614366390849210;19:
> > 2533274819446242;18:
> > > 2614366390849210;17:
> > > I think the “niche” you’re looking for is better evaluated as the performance against shields and unshielded opponents.
> > >
> > > The BR is only ok at stripping shields, but extremely deadly in almost any circumstance when an opponent is unshielded. I would argue it’s niche is that it’s the most effective precision weapon against unshielded opponents, with the largest window of effective range in this regard.
> > >
> > > Also, I think being the only burst fire load out weapon is enough of a niche that we don’t need to worry about more.
> > >
> > > I hope the HI BR lands somewhere between the H5 and H3 BR.
> >
> > If Halo 5 is any indication burst fire clearly isn’t enough of a difference when players already spawn with a utility Magnum. Burst fire is mostly an aesthetic difference and the few instances where it can be a factor vs unshielded targets it ultimately doesn’t amount to much because you have to deal with shields more often than not.
> >
> > We can and should expect more from our weapon sandbox overall, but that doesn’t necesarily mean that the BR has to radically change. So I’ll ask you this:
> >
> > In an Arena setting, would you rather…
> > 1.) Spawn with a BR where you have “gunfighter” Magnums and “Sentinel” DMR’s on the Map? Or…
> > 2.) Spawn with a Utility Magnum(CE/H5) where you would pickup “Sentinel” BR’s on the maps?(DMR removed)
>
> I guess I don’t understand why you want to get rid of one or the other? They serve very different roles, and have very different traits. Definitely different enough to justify them both being in the weapon sandbox.
>
> I want it to be pretty much like H5.
>
> In big team, you start with a BR

If you are referring to the BR and Magnum I’m not trying to get rid of them, just diversify them. As they exist in Halo 5 the balance issues are inevitable. Pre-Patch BR is almost a pure upgrade(however marginal) over the Magnum and post patch BR isn’t worth picking up over a Magnum. Neither scenario is ideal and these issues will persist as long as things remain the way they are. The Halo 5 sandbox has 5 near identical precision weapons(not counting DLC and variants) all tripping over each other and then folks complain that “no uses anything but the Magnum.” Well of course they don’t because their options off spawn for precision weapons were a Burst Fire Magnum(BR), a Covenant Magnum(Carbine), a slightly longer range Magnum(DMR), and an Orange Magnum(LR). Outside of the LR there is very little reason to pick up one of the other precision weapons so you might as well just spend your time practicing with the Magnum.

But if you want to spawn with a BR in BTB that’s fine. If that’s the case then why can’t we also just spawn with it in all Arena gametypes and let the Magnum do something else?