What if the Scorpian Tank was Nerfed?

Games Halo Wars Series
1

This is regarding 3v3, as this is the most populated, significsnt playlist.

Say , for example , the canister shell on a scorpian tank did as much damage to vehicles as the grizzly tank, and its machine gun did less damage against non - infantry units .How significant of an impact would this change have? For 1, the grizzly would be worth the 1800 upgrade.

Im asking this because, as a unsc player, its generally alot more simply and straight foward to win games : make scorpians. Put Spartans in them. And scopian tanks. Well.

Tank Beats Everything.

Im mainly a Brute Chieftan player, and being covenant is generally more challenging, due to the number of tactics given to them that they have to do. When I play has a unsc, I feel as if there’s significantly alot less to worry about on their part, simply because they have the power to make one unit > most units, and that unit is readily availiable to them 4 - 4:30 minutes into the game .

Im not implying that being covenant is harder, it isnt fair, etc. Im implying that this is a strategy game, so there should be a variety of successful strategies to use for each of the 2 factions, while maintaining balance of the 2. That is the goal of a strategy game. Having a dominant unit negates this.

Here’s my list of what each Faction generally has to do. I say generally, because the map being played may alter what a faction has /can do, and what the enemy team consists of. For example, UNSC on exile dosent have to double base, but they are much stronger later on if they do righr away. A unsc player will play diffierenty against triple covenant, although this matchup isnt common, but jusy to give an example.

Anyway, heres my list.

Covenant:

  • Deny Expo’s - Give Expo’s to your Unsc - Go Banshee’s - Transition to Hunters if you absolutely need to. beware of the canny glitch - Early Harassment / Slow Down the enemy unsc(s) - Keep enemy vehicle depots down - Make banshees to support your unsc agsinst tanks/make enemy use wolverines, so your unsc has more tanks - Defend your unsc against early harassment/rush - Go vampires (if your the only covenant on your team, against more than 1, or if the only enemy covenant on their team has a banshee lead.) - Never have your unsc need to build wolverines
    UNSC :

  • Build hogs for early defense / harassments - Grab an expo - Build Scorpian tanks - Get Canister before the enemy unsc - Get Power Turret before the enemy unsc - Out-Tank the enemy unsc - Go gauss against double or triple covenant
    What im trying to say, is that unsc dosent have an abundance of diverse strategies . It mainly revolves around making tanks, warthogs, and having a 2nd base.

Im not hating on the unsc as a whole, or the scorpian, I like it. In fact , I achieved a 2, 13 star scorpians in a match on frozen last night, i should mention. But could this game potentially be a better RTS, if a more diverse set of successful strategies were given to the unsc?

( i say successful, because you can defeat my statement and say “mix your army of marines, scorpians, warthogs and hornets.” As a strategy for example. It is a strategy, but not a successful one. Tanks alone beat this. Thats how i got my 13 star tank yesterday. )

I feel like this change to one unit could of provided a larger halo wars community even, and it would be more forgiving on causals on the game. Hopefully Halo Wars 2 will have this mindset during its production.

Thank you for reading my post, feel welcome to comment.

2

Canny glitch?

3

I was thinking more of make It where u need tech level 3 to make tanks instead of 2

4

Tanks need to be powerful idk if nerfing them would be the answer maybe buffing everything else a little

5

I think in general there isn’t enough diversity in this game. There is only 3 tanks, 3 men and 3 air (only 2 for UNSC). Now if we look at a game like command and conquer there are about 6 men, 10 tanks and 3 aircraft. As well as MANY upgrades and passive abilities etc. Halo wars is a rock paper scissors and that’s why there is only 3 units each but that’s just boring and black and white. If they have air you HAVE to do this… If they have men you HAVE to do this. In command and conquer there are many ways to look at everything.

6

> 2533274830166194;4:
> Tanks need to be powerful idk if nerfing them would be the answer maybe buffing everything else a little

buffing everything else would have the same effect as nerfing the scorpion. (facepalm)

7

> 2535469600463812;2:
> Canny glitch?

The ability to canister shell infantry units infinitely. It renders Hunters completely useless. In response to the TS, I don’t think that tanks need to be nerfed. They’re a mainline unit, thus they are going to be used a lot. They’re the ones meant to be used the most. It’s in the name. You just as often see wolverines, but of course people are going to default to tanks instead of counter units. Of course Hornets and Marines are mainline units as well and don’t get the same amount of usage, but I’d rather buff those two instead of nerf tanks. Make the Marine’s RPG ability more impactful against tanks. Increase the Hornet’s rate of fire. Things like that.

8

You can’t simply nerf UNSC units. The whole system needs to be readjusted (as it will be in Halo Wars 2).

The reason being? The overall balance of Halo Wars between factions is incredibly close, with a slight advantage going to Covenant.

Despite being used less (Covenant 38 % use, UNSC 62 % use) the Covenant win approx 52% of their games while UNSC win only approx 48% of their games.

Statistically, Covenant is more likely to win a match than the UNSC is. If anything, according to these stats, the UNSC needs a buff. But simply changing unit tech levels will throw the entire system into chaotic imbalance.

That’s why Halo Wars 2 needs to rework all the unit balancing/requirements/counters/etc as I believe Creative Assembly is currently doing.

9

> 2533274809541057;8:
> You can’t simply nerf UNSC units. The whole system needs to be readjusted (as it will be in Halo Wars 2).
>
> The reason being? The overall balance of Halo Wars between factions is incredibly close, with a slight advantage going to Covenant.
>
> Despite being used less (Covenant 38 % use, UNSC 62 % use) the Covenant win approx 52% of their games while UNSC win only approx 48% of their games.
>
> Statistically, Covenant is more likely to win a match than the UNSC is. If anything, according to these stats, the UNSC needs a buff. But simply changing unit tech levels will throw the entire system into chaotic imbalance.
>
> That’s why Halo Wars 2 needs to rework all the unit balancing/requirements/counters/etc as I believe Creative Assembly is currently doing.

Once again, more less experienced players play as the UNSC. Thus, the win percentage is a bit lower. But I do agree with you that Scorpions shouldn’t be nerfed.

10

> 2535415305234137;6:
> > 2533274830166194;4:
> > Tanks need to be powerful idk if nerfing them would be the answer maybe buffing everything else a little
>
>
> buffing everything else would have the same effect as nerfing the scorpion. (facepalm)

I did say a little if u read it jerkface

11

> 2533274830166194;10:
> > 2535415305234137;6:
> > > 2533274830166194;4:
> > > Tanks need to be powerful idk if nerfing them would be the answer maybe buffing everything else a little
> >
> >
> > buffing everything else would have the same effect as nerfing the scorpion. (facepalm)
>
>
> I did say a little if u read it jerkface

Buffing everything else except the Scorpion equates to nerfing just the Scorpion…

12

> 2535452784065270;9:
> > 2533274809541057;8:
> > You can’t simply nerf UNSC units. The whole system needs to be readjusted (as it will be in Halo Wars 2).
> >
> > The reason being? The overall balance of Halo Wars between factions is incredibly close, with a slight advantage going to Covenant.
> >
> > Despite being used less (Covenant 38 % use, UNSC 62 % use) the Covenant win approx 52% of their games while UNSC win only approx 48% of their games.
> >
> > Statistically, Covenant is more likely to win a match than the UNSC is. If anything, according to these stats, the UNSC needs a buff. But simply changing unit tech levels will throw the entire system into chaotic imbalance.
> >
> > That’s why Halo Wars 2 needs to rework all the unit balancing/requirements/counters/etc as I believe Creative Assembly is currently doing.
>
>
> Once again, more less experienced players play as the UNSC. Thus, the win percentage is a bit lower. But I do agree with you that Scorpions shouldn’t be nerfed.

A possible theory, but how can you prove that? And if so, the next questions are

  • why do less experience players play as the UNSC?
  • Is the UNSC easier to use? If so, why do they still lose more often?
  • Does Covenant allow a higher skill ceiling? (Meaning that they are indeed a more powerful faction)
    Just food for thought. Or debate.
13

> 2533274809541057;12:
> > 2535452784065270;9:
> > > 2533274809541057;8:
> > > You can’t simply nerf UNSC units. The whole system needs to be readjusted (as it will be in Halo Wars 2).
> > >
> > > The reason being? The overall balance of Halo Wars between factions is incredibly close, with a slight advantage going to Covenant.
> > >
> > > Despite being used less (Covenant 38 % use, UNSC 62 % use) the Covenant win approx 52% of their games while UNSC win only approx 48% of their games.
> > >
> > > Statistically, Covenant is more likely to win a match than the UNSC is. If anything, according to these stats, the UNSC needs a buff. But simply changing unit tech levels will throw the entire system into chaotic imbalance.
> > >
> > > That’s why Halo Wars 2 needs to rework all the unit balancing/requirements/counters/etc as I believe Creative Assembly is currently doing.
> >
> >
> > Once again, more less experienced players play as the UNSC. Thus, the win percentage is a bit lower. But I do agree with you that Scorpions shouldn’t be nerfed.
>
>
> A possible theory, but how can you prove that? And if so, the next questions are
>
>
>
> - why do less experience players play as the UNSC?
>
>
> - Is the UNSC easier to use? If so, why do they still lose more often?
>
>
> - Does Covenant allow a higher skill ceiling? (Meaning that they are indeed a more powerful faction)
> Just food for thought. Or debate.

Less experienced players play as the UNSC because they come from the campaign, which teaches them how to play as the UNSC but not the Covenant. And I wouldn’t say that the UNSC is easier. With the UNSC, you have to master knowing where your opponent is and when and be able to catch them with their pants down. With the Covenant in most situations, the player takes what map control they can get and defend it until they’ve got a big enough army whilst making sure that the other player isn’t doing something sneaky (a term I coined for switching from massing one unit to another.) Honestly, I’d say the UNSC has the higher skill ceiling. I used to watch Marco Style NL back when he made HW videos, and I was always amazed when he’d say “A hog should be coming out of that base right about now.” and then a warthog would come out and Marco would catching it alone and destroy it.

The Covenant are very reliant on one unit. The leader. This makes playing as the Covenant simpler, but it also makes defeating the Covenant simpler. Instead of having 6 or so warthogs, you’ve got one special unit. I’m not complaining, I like the dynamic. But I’ve always been under the impression that if one faction is OP, It would be the UNSC. For all my complaints about the UNSC (they have a slightly better economy, they have slightly stronger units, they have more accurate turrets, their bases have much more health and the Covenant shield is hardly useful), the one thing that makes the UNSC OP is that they can build a scout unit (that happens to be one of the most commonly spammed units in the game) out of the main base.

14

Interesting points. Can’t say that I 100% agree, but I can’t say that they’re wrong.

But I do have to say I disagree with the “Covenant shield is hardly useful” claim as it [the shield] allows for much more aggressive base expos and can nullify harassment.

15

I may sound stupid… But what’s expo…?

16

> 2533274861074099;15:
> I may sound stupid… But what’s expo…?

An expansion. As in, when you build a new base.

And also, to Rudy, expo’s aren’t something Covies usually strive for. That’s more of a UNSC thing, since it allows for faster hog production. Also, expo’s aren’t quite as important to the Covies in 1v1 as compared to 3v3 where your teammates can defend you from the enemy while you stop unit production in order to save up for a base. The only good use for shields that I’ve found in 1v1 is to stop air units from ravaging your base while your slow moving army is too far away to defend. The reason the shield generator is not very effective is because it takes up a base slot. Instead of another pad, or another unit production building, you sacrifice that for a few seconds of invulnerability. It only really prolongs the inevitable in most situations. If you had to pay to activate it from the main base, I think it would become a much more useful unique feature for the Covenant.

17

> 2535452784065270;13:
> > 2533274809541057;12:
> > > 2535452784065270;9:
> > > > 2533274809541057;8:
> > > > You can’t simply nerf UNSC units. The whole system needs to be readjusted (as it will be in Halo Wars 2).
> > > >
> > > > The reason being? The overall balance of Halo Wars between factions is incredibly close, with a slight advantage going to Covenant.
> > > >
> > > > Despite being used less (Covenant 38 % use, UNSC 62 % use) the Covenant win approx 52% of their games while UNSC win only approx 48% of their games.
> > > >
> > > > Statistically, Covenant is more likely to win a match than the UNSC is. If anything, according to these stats, the UNSC needs a buff. But simply changing unit tech levels will throw the entire system into chaotic imbalance.
> > > >
> > > > That’s why Halo Wars 2 needs to rework all the unit balancing/requirements/counters/etc as I believe Creative Assembly is currently doing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Once again, more less experienced players play as the UNSC. Thus, the win percentage is a bit lower. But I do agree with you that Scorpions shouldn’t be nerfed.
> >
> >
> > A possible theory, but how can you prove that? And if so, the next questions are
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - why do less experience players play as the UNSC?
> >
> >
> > - Is the UNSC easier to use? If so, why do they still lose more often?
> >
> >
> > - Does Covenant allow a higher skill ceiling? (Meaning that they are indeed a more powerful faction)
> > Just food for thought. Or debate.
>
>
> Less experienced players play as the UNSC because they come from the campaign, which teaches them how to play as the UNSC but not the Covenant. And I wouldn’t say that the UNSC is easier. With the UNSC, you have to master knowing where your opponent is and when and be able to catch them with their pants down. With the Covenant in most situations, the player takes what map control they can get and defend it until they’ve got a big enough army whilst making sure that the other player isn’t doing something sneaky (a term I coined for switching from massing one unit to another.) Honestly, I’d say the UNSC has the higher skill ceiling. I used to watch Macro Style NL back when he made HW videos, and I was always amazed when he’d say “A hog should be coming out of that base right about now.” and then a warthog would come out and Macro would catching it alone and destroy it.

With the covenant, you have to master how to combat the unsc as the covenant.which is significantly more difficult than mastering how to combat a unsc, as a unsc, simply because both players understand the faction, and are doing the same thing. Fighting warthogs and prevanting expo’s as covenant is more difficult than being unsc with warthogs, if the unsc has descent micro and hogs. Its literally a challenge for the covenant player, which means covenant may have a higher skill gap in my opinion.

By the way, we’re talking about 3v3’s, and your using 1v1 logic, but however, the faction skill ceilings are still universal.

I also watch macro’s vids. To support this claim i made, he has a video of a 1v1, as the Arbiter, against a Forge on Release, for example. Compared to playing against a unsc, as a unsc, or a covenant against a covenant, it was significantly more difficult on his side. Being a covenant, you dont have a versatile , inexpensive early unit that can be rapidly deployed, so your early offence is already weaker, which literally results in the covie playing defense, which is bad since this allows the unsc to expo. Arbiter is good at killing warthogs, but it hurts the arbiters economy, and it makes denying a unsc expo while defending your base from grenadier hog very difficult, compared to if you had hogs yourself.

Macro is insansely good with arbiter, and his high skill resulted a win to against a good unsc. A very good covenant can beat a good unsc, this skill diffierence nets an equal chance of either player winning. If the forge he played had the same skill as macro, he most likely would of lost. Not to mention Release is a terrible map for covenant, as theres no hooks for them to contest and control , which would alow the to overpower the unsc. This game took 30 minutes also. We all know how overpowering the unsc is against covenant at mid to late game, yet he won, against *gauss hogs.*The covenant in my opinion has a higher skill gap , hence the covenant having a higher win ratio than unsc, despite unsc being the most played faction, which may be due to it being easier to play. It is arguable that a great amount of noobs do play as unsc, which may affect this claim, but a great amount of new players likely played covenant a few times, then went back to unsc due the faction being more easy and simple to play.

18

> 2535452784065270;13:
> > 2533274809541057;12:
> > > 2535452784065270;9:
> > > > 2533274809541057;8:
> > > > You can’t simply nerf UNSC units. The whole system needs to be readjusted (as it will be in Halo Wars 2).
> > > >
> > > > The reason being? The overall balance of Halo Wars between factions is incredibly close, with a slight advantage going to Covenant.
> > > >
> > > > Despite being used less (Covenant 38 % use, UNSC 62 % use) the Covenant win approx 52% of their games while UNSC win only approx 48% of their games.
> > > >
> > > > Statistically, Covenant is more likely to win a match than the UNSC is. If anything, according to these stats, the UNSC needs a buff. But simply changing unit tech levels will throw the entire system into chaotic imbalance.
> > > >
> > > > That’s why Halo Wars 2 needs to rework all the unit balancing/requirements/counters/etc as I believe Creative Assembly is currently doing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Once again, more less experienced players play as the UNSC. Thus, the win percentage is a bit lower. But I do agree with you that Scorpions shouldn’t be nerfed.
> >
> >
> > A possible theory, but how can you prove that? And if so, the next questions are
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - why do less experience players play as the UNSC?
> >
> >
> > - Is the UNSC easier to use? If so, why do they still lose more often?
> >
> >
> > - Does Covenant allow a higher skill ceiling? (Meaning that they are indeed a more powerful faction)
> > Just food for thought. Or
>
>
>
> The Covenant are very reliant on one unit. The leader. This makes playing as the Covenant simpler, but it also makes defeating the Covenant simpler. Instead of having 6 or so warthogs, you’ve got one special unit. I’m not complaining, I like the dynamic. But I’ve always been under the impression that if one faction is OP, It would be the UNSC. For all my complaints about the UNSC (they have a slightly better economy, they have slightly stronger units, they have more accurate turrets, their bases have much more health and the Covenant shield is hardly useful), the one thing that makes the UNSC OP is that they can build a scout unit (that happens to be one of the most commonly spammed units in the game) out of the main base.

Arent unsc very reliant on one unit, the warthog, as to the one unit for the covenant, the leader, except you can train the unit you have to rely on? From this stand point, both factions are just as simple in context, but unsc may also have it easier at the same time.

Lets not forget unsc can constantly train their reliant units, and they have a starting economic bonus. The covenant does not, and it cost a great amount of resources for an arbiter ($40 per use) to rage. Sure, it takes 2 to 3 to kill a hog ($80 or $120 to kill a hog, which cost $150), but a unsc’s econimical advantage negates that, and hogs are easily replaceable and cheap. The covie ends up losing money and slowing down theor economy. Dont get me started on when unsc gets tech 3 and / or an expo. The chieftan and prophet are less effective at killing hogs, so i used the arbiter as my reasonable example for a covenant leader.

19

> 2535452784065270;13:
> … Less experienced players play as the UNSC because they come from the campaign, which teaches them how to play as the UNSC but not the Covenant …

So wouldn’t this boost the UNSC win% seeing as how players are somewhat trained to use them, whereas Covenant are essentially OJT?

P.S. On the Job Training.

20

> 2535452784065270;16:
> And also, to Rudy, expo’s aren’t something Covies usually strive for. That’s more of a UNSC thing, since it allows for faster hog production. Also, expo’s aren’t quite as important to the Covies in 1v1 as compared to 3v3 where your teammates can defend you from the enemy while you stop unit production in order to save up for a base.

Everyone needs to expand sooner or later. 1v1 is no exception. One base severely limits your economical and technological potential.

> 2535452784065270;16:
> The only good use for shields that I’ve found in 1v1 is to stop air units from ravaging your base while your slow moving army is too far away to defend. The reason the shield generator is not very effective is because it takes up a base slot. Instead of another pad, or another unit production building, you sacrifice that for a few seconds of invulnerability. It only really prolongs the inevitable in most situations. If you had to pay to activate it from the main base, I think it would become a much more useful unique feature for the Covenant.

Aha, so it can be effective, even for you.

Any building of use requires a base slot. I don’t really see that as an argument. As UNSC, a Field Armory offers no resource or unit output, but still provides the advantage of specialized upgrades, many of which require multiple tech levels (requiring multiple building spaces to be used by reactors).

Although, perhaps as a Citadel toggle costing a single-use fee (per use) plus a slow per-second fee it could effectively re-purposed.

I haven’t played HW at a competitive level in years, so perhaps it (shield generator) has fallen out of use nowadays, but back when I did play seriously, it was effectively used in various situations.