Something that bothers me is that with all their advanced technology the covenant does not have powered exoskeletons for their soldiers, not even special ops types. Humanity is centuries behind the Covenant in technology and yet they have a way to make measly little humans on par with Elites. Why didn’t the Covenant already have super soldiers of their own? It only makes sense to do that and they would have an easier time of doing it with their technology. They could biologically enhance an Elite with zero side effects or drawbacks and have a powered exoskeleton far superior to that of Spartans. Of course, the real answer is “gameplay” but just imagine if the Covenant did a spartan-like program for it’s own soldiers. It would be like a Predator wearing Iron Man’s armor.
Probably because of their culture. Elites are so proud that they would never allow this, rather they’d prefer to win due to their own merit and skill in battle. Bleeding outside of battle is also highly dishonourable for Elites, and doctors are shunned. As such it would be difficult to actually augment them too.
Augmented Elites are a scary thought though. They’re already as strong as a Spartan in Mark V Mjolnir. If they were to be able to wear Mjolnir, they’d be five times stronger and faster than any Spartan.
Firstly the only reason, a super-soldier program is made… is to gain an advantage, or on-par battle prowess with their opponents… the Sangheili were naturally superior in all aspects; intellect, strength, endurance, skill… so they hardly felt any challenge or need for improvement.
Secondly specifically Elites, see the Spartan augmentations as blasphemy due to their higher standing of no medical care, as it undermines their honor and strength as warriors.
Everyone else seems to have said everything I was going to say already but one nit-pick in your thread is that the Covenant would be copying the Mjolnir Program, not the Spartan Program if they were just going for advanced suits of armor.
Also, augmented Grunts would haunt my dreams in many, many ways.
Imagine one Spartan fighting two Augmented Elites inside a secluded room; that entire scenario would be intense… O.O
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> Probably because of their culture. Elites are so proud that they would never allow this, rather they’d prefer to win due to their own merit and skill in battle. Bleeding outside of battle is also highly dishonourable for Elites, and doctors are shunned. As such it would be difficult to actually augment them too.
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> Augmented Elites are a scary thought though. They’re already as strong as a Spartan in Mark V Mjolnir. If they were to be able to wear Mjolnir, they’d be five times stronger and faster than any Spartan.
Actually, that may no longer be the case. Much of that had to do with influences from the Covenant and Forerunner worship. When the Prophets started to beat the Elites back before the treaty, the Elites actually cast aside cultural and religious taboos about using Forerunner tech and innovation in order to survive. They could do so again.
As is, we have confirmation that Helioskrill Spartan Armor is manufactured by Elites. Will it be long before the secrets on the mass produced models are cracked?
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> > Probably because of their culture. Elites are so proud that they would never allow this, rather they’d prefer to win due to their own merit and skill in battle. Bleeding outside of battle is also highly dishonourable for Elites, and doctors are shunned. As such it would be difficult to actually augment them too.
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> > Augmented Elites are a scary thought though. They’re already as strong as a Spartan in Mark V Mjolnir. If they were to be able to wear Mjolnir, they’d be five times stronger and faster than any Spartan.
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> Actually, that may no longer be the case. Much of that had to do with influences from the Covenant and Forerunner worship. When the Prophets started to beat the Elites back before the treaty, the Elites actually cast aside cultural and religious taboos about using Forerunner tech and innovation in order to survive. They could do so again.
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> As is, we have confirmation that Helioskrill Spartan Armor is manufactured by Elites. Will it be long before the secrets on the mass produced models are cracked?
Those taboos were only to do with Forerunner tech though, and the Covenant revolved around Forerunners and their technology, so it makes sense. They didn’t cast aside their own cultural rituals such as marks of shame, disobedience etc, or their concept of honour. Their taboos that revolve around bleeding and doctors were still ingrained in their culture even in the time of the Human-Covenant war. I doubt they’d abandon it in the space of a decade.
Helioskrill was designed by a Sangheili Craftsman, it wasn’t manufactured by Elites.
very interesting thought, think about it the san shyuum kidnapping elites or brutes at young ages to surgically enhance them and train them to be the best and on top of that give them the most advanced armor the san shyuum possible can create with forerunner tech at disposal.
Elites are the equivalent of spartans regardless.
Different energy shielding in ranks could signify augmentation.
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> Something that bothers me is that with all their advanced technology the covenant does not have powered exoskeletons for their soldiers,
The Halo Encyclopaedia states that the Sangheili Combat Harness is powered.
> not even special ops types.
Their Navy does have a special operations branch. Zealots and Field Marshal Teams operating under one of the Covenant Ministries could also be considered a Covenant Special Forces unit. There was the group referred to in Halo by the Commando Combat Harness, and then there were the Ascetics. Finally, there was a group of elite Spec Ops Sangheili in Headhunters that rather easily destroyed several groups of Spartan-III’s commandoes.
There seems to be several groups of Sangheili that engage in spec ops and unconventional warfare.
> Why didn’t the Covenant already have super soldiers of their own?
They do, effectively. The term super-soldier is relative. The average Sangheili Minor is a super-soldier compared to human infantry, as they are basically superior in every way. They can also be considered as such against all of the other client races except the Jiralhanae.
> It only makes sense to do that and they would have an easier time of doing it with their technology. They could biologically enhance an Elite with zero side effects or drawbacks and have a powered exoskeleton far superior to that of Spartans. Of course, the real answer is “gameplay” but just imagine if the Covenant did a spartan-like program for it’s own soldiers. It would be like a Predator wearing Iron Man’s armor.
You are assuming that the Covenant’s scientific fields are all strictly above that of humanity’s though. As we’ve seen with the case of AI, humanity has a sizable lead. If the Covenant were neglecting that field of research for cultural or political reasons then it wouldn’t just spring up to a level superior to humanity’s overnight. It would take time and money to properly develop, and be just as likely to be hit by its own setbacks.
I’m loathe to believe that the Sangheili turned down augmenting their species due to the usual trite about honour, favouring “natural prowess” (Makes little sense anyway), or due to some cultural taboo concerning invasive medical procedures. It’s not only a homogenising viewpoint to take of their diverse culture, but we’ve been shown through Halo: Broken Circle that even in spite of taboos and laws surrounding certain actions, they do it anyway. It was forbidden to tamper with Forerunner relics before the Sangheili were conquered by the Prophets, yet underground rings of Sangheili academics conducted research and experiments on them anyway, in secret (It’s the reason why they had an answer to the Prophets so fast).
In this case though, I don’t think that the Prophets would have condoned research into making the Sangheili even more dangerous as a species than what they already were. The Covenant is a fragile power play between the Sangheili and the Prophets, and the Prophets were always concerned about the balance of power tipping against them. I don’t think that the Prophets would be very excited about making them even better, especially during the war with humanity when massive issues were beginning to come out about just how loyal the Sangheili were to the Prophets.
Based on their effectiveness against normal humans, there really was no need to augment them in any way. It’s true that they struggled against Spartans and were probably outclassed by them, but there weren’t many Spartans and the Covenant’s victories were contingent upon maintaining space superiority, not terrestrial superiority. Therefore I don’t imagine that there would have been any incentive to pour time and resources into a project that wasn’t needed.
There are also limits to biology put in place by the laws of physics and chemistry. The Sangheili are already pretty ridiculous as it is in terms of their natural characteristics as a species. Just exactly how much better can they get before some kind of fundamental limit is reached? Additionally, how much better can they get before some crippling tradeoffs have to be made in other areas, such as energy requirements?
ya the covenant wouldn’t create a spartan like program for the elites for three reasons, one as stated the prophets are paranoid about the balance of power, secondly as stated before the elites would consider it a cultural taboo and thirdly elites train from the day they are born like Japanese samurai (heck it is who they are based on)
also what the hell are you lot smoking an elite is not equal to a spartan. Spartans are faster and stronger then elites as has been stated in the books many times (kind of hard for nature to compete with gene forging)
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> ya the covenant wouldn’t create a spartan like program for the elites for three reasons, one as stated the prophets are paranoid about the balance of power, secondly as stated before the elites would consider it a cultural taboo and thirdly elites train from the day they are born like Japanese samurai (heck it is who they are based on)
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> also what the hell are you lot smoking an elite is not equal to a spartan. Spartans are faster and stronger then elites as has been stated in the books many times (kind of hard for nature to compete with gene forging)
That one Elite that nearly killed John in a sword fight might disagree
I don’t think elites are equals to spartans. Maybe strenght wise yes but it really doesn’t matter so much in a firefight does it?
I’m sure elites have much slower reflexes than spartans even though they are probably usually faster than humans. I would appreciate someone finding canon sources to this matter. Something other than “elite and Chief wrestled and it was even fight”
I think regular human soldier with shields would be almost equal to sangheili minor. Or even better. Sangheili’s honor may not allow them to fight effectively and use covers and teamwork as humans do.
This is just my opinion but I think Sangheili make great warriors but not as good soldiers as they could potentially be.
Very interesting concept.
One thing I think you need to keep in mind is that the Orion super-solider project that birthed the Spartan super-soldiers was born out of shear-desperation, as the UNSC believed even with it full military might it still needed an additional edge to prevent its colonial empire from breaking apart.
The Covenant is ahead of the UNSC’s technologically, but as of 2552 its regular military seemed to be enough to maintain the status the quo which wasn’t the case for the UNSC when the Spartan II program was initiated.
Another point I think you need to keep in mind if that while the MJOLNIR power armour is marginally superior to Sangheili combat harnesses, its prototype gear is extremely expensive to produce while the Sangheili combat-harness if mass produced as standard-issue equipment. (This first powered exoskeletons the Spartan II’s were equipped with was said to cost the equivalent of a small star-ship)
The fact that the Covenant can equip its troops with armour systems comparable to the MJOLNIR for a tiny fraction of the cost is something you have to keep in mind when comparing both sides technology, as first rule of defence spending is that it has to be affordable.
Going back to the OP’s original post, a Covenant or Sangheili super-soldier program is something I hope we get to see in the future.
Considering at its height the Covenant could level vast sums of resources and money far superior in volume to what the UNSC could have produced (their standard SuperCarrier was 28 KM in length while the UNSC equivalent was 3 KM in length), I’d love to have seen what Covenant technicians could have produced if they’ve had the budget equivalent to a Covenant star-ship to pour into a single suit of prototype Sangheili or Jiralhanae armour.
Considering it would benefit from much more advanced technology and a much larger budget then the MJOLNIR had available when it was produced, It probably would have had every armour ability and equipment available already installed, not to mention integrated plasma and directed energy weapons.
As for whether the Covenant would have done it because of Sangheili cultural and social norms, I don’t see this as being to much of a hurdle.
It was completely against human social and cultural norms in the 26th century to abduct human children for dangerous and unethical conscription and experimentation, but the UNSC went ahead and did it anyway. Also considering an unaugment Sangheili could take on a fully augmented Spartan II super-soldier on an even footing and in rare cases actually best them, imagine what an augmented Sangheili or Jiralhanae in said prototype Covenant armour could do.
I don’t see any reason the Covenant or Sangheili successor factions couldn’t do the exact same thing given the correct motivation.
This is such an old post no need to bump it guys.
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> I don’t think elites are equals to spartans. Maybe strenght wise yes but it really doesn’t matter so much in a firefight does it?
> I’m sure elites have much slower reflexes than spartans even though they are probably usually faster than humans. I would appreciate someone finding canon sources to this matter. Something other than “elite and Chief wrestled and it was even fight”
> I think regular human soldier with shields would be almost equal to sangheili minor. Or even better. Sangheili’s honor may not allow them to fight effectively and use covers and teamwork as humans do.
> This is just my opinion but I think Sangheili make great warriors but not as good soldiers as they could potentially be.
The Sangheili in one of the Halo Legends videos took the Master Chief on in a one-on-one sword fight and defeated him, which would suggest that the physical strength and reflexes of this particular Sangheili were on par with or superior to the Master Chief’s, probably the most combat experienced human during the entire conflict.
Unaugment humans can’t operate MJOLNIR armour safely. One of the first pilots for this powered exoskeleton killed himself because the exo-skelleton’s enhanced reactions broke his bones before snapping his neck if I remember correctly.
It’s a catch twenty-two. To benefit from the energy shielding built into the MJOLNIR, a basic human solider would first need to go through the genetic augmentation process just to be able to make use of this shielding, which is comparable to the semi-powered armour unaugment Sangheili make use of as standard.
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> The Sangheili in one of the Halo Legends videos took the Master Chief on in a one-on-one sword fight and defeated him, which would suggest that the physical strength and reflexes of this particular Sangheili were on par with or superior to the Master Chief’s, probably the most combat experienced human during the entire conflict.
I’m still doubtfull. The elite mastered the swordplay and Chief may not had used the energy sword before. Also Fred fought the elites with swords only using his knives and I don’t think any elite is able to do the feats Blue team does in the same scene.
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> Something that bothers me is that with all their advanced technology the covenant does not have powered exoskeletons for their soldiers, not even special ops types. Humanity is centuries behind the Covenant in technology and yet they have a way to make measly little humans on par with Elites. Why didn’t the Covenant already have super soldiers of their own? It only makes sense to do that and they would have an easier time of doing it with their technology. They could biologically enhance an Elite with zero side effects or drawbacks and have a powered exoskeleton far superior to that of Spartans. Of course, the real answer is “gameplay” but just imagine if the Covenant did a spartan-like program for it’s own soldiers. It would be like a Predator wearing Iron Man’s armor.
Based on what? And really, they don’t need such a unit because every species they has specializes in certain roles and between the Elites, Hunters and Brutes, why bother?
Considering how the Sangheili society is based on honor, I bet any unnatural physical altering would be seen as very unhonorable.
Here’s a thought on this subject, what if the Covenant have never delved into the science of dna manipulation?
Think about it, all the Covenant tech is reversed engineered Forerunner tech. Meaning all what they’ve done is learn weapon, material, slipspace and energy knowledge from Forerunner artefacts.
Maybe this is an area of science that humans are much further ahead on than all of the Covenant based species?
If this is true then humans will always be ahead of the Sengheili in this area, with humans having a faster learning rate than the Covenant. (I think that’s right, humanity being one of the Precursors greatest achievements.)