Disclaimer: Not here to talk about how we have to wait 3 months for co-op, I’m sorry if that affects you personally, I really am. This topic is not to discuss that or to debate if delays are necessary, there are enough topics about that. Please be respectful and leave that discussion and type of comment out of this topic.
Okay then, let’s not pretend co-op wasn’t just some tacked on feature at first in Halo, you literally just played as a second Master Chief. Over time the co-op characters have been properly intertwined into the story which is great, why not go a step further?
We know the campaign has already evolved and we are now looking at a potentially open world campaign. For co-op there could be different dialogue options, the co-op characters could be incorporated differently into the story and cutscenes than if it was single player (unlikely but that would be hype), we could even get some co-op only areas that need multiple players to be fully accessed and explored.
The story trailer was about Chief and no other Spartans in sight so it makes me think this won’t work like Halo 5 for instance where you had your team with you as AI and the co-op players just seamlessly assumed their roles. Maybe this hints it is being handled differently, surely they wouldn’t go back to 2x Master Chiefs like the original Halo CE.
Most video games just feel so similar in both modes, obviously more fun with friends but it’s still the exact same game with no differences in single player or co-op, would love to see Halo go beyond.
I think the idea works specifically for post game content. The normal campaign will have co-op however the “end game” might have more in-depth co-op than we expected.
I mean, it’d be nice if that were maybe a thing, but given they haven’t mentioned it, its hard to assume its not just going to the a 2nd master chief or the MP spartan just hanging around.
And if they were delaying it for that it’d maybe be a cool idea to you know, say it was?
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> I mean, it’d be nice if that were maybe a thing, but given they haven’t mentioned it, its hard to assume its not just going to the a 2nd master chief or the MP spartan just hanging around.
>
> And if they were delaying it for that it’d maybe be a cool idea to you know, say it was?
There is a lot they haven’t mentioned though. It seems like everytime we find out we are surprised outside of the obvious.
> 2533274801036271;1:
> *Disclaimer: Not here to talk about how we have to wait 3 months for co-op, I’m sorry if that affects you personally, I really am. This topic is not to discuss that or to debate if delays are necessary, there are enough topics about that. Please be respectful and leave that discussion and type of comment out of this topic.*Okay then, let’s not pretend co-op wasn’t just some tacked on feature at first in Halo, you literally just played as a second Master Chief. Over time the co-op characters have been properly intertwined into the story which is great, why not go a step further?
>
> We know the campaign has already evolved and we are now looking at a potentially open world campaign. For co-op there could be different dialogue options, the co-op characters could be incorporated differently into the story and cutscenes than if it was single player (unlikely but that would be hype), we could even get some co-op only areas that need multiple players to be fully accessed and explored.
>
> The story trailer was about Chief and no other Spartans in sight so it makes me think this won’t work like Halo 5 for instance where you had your team with you as AI and the co-op players just seamlessly assumed their roles. Maybe this hints it is being handled differently, surely they wouldn’t go back to 2x Master Chiefs like the original Halo CE.
>
> Most video games just feel so similar in both modes, obviously more fun with friends but it’s still the exact same game with no differences in single player or co-op, would love to see Halo go beyond.
You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
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> >
>
> You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
>
> Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
So first, I think that the only real difference between this campaign and previous ones is the semi-open world.
With these types of games you have one of two options:
All players can go wherever they want within the playable area
Players are restricted to a limited distance from the rest of the group.
The second is incredibly unpleasant to deal with in general, and it does lend itself more towards a Halo CE style game where both players are playing the same in game character from a narrative perspective.
Alternatively, the first more or less requires a complete shift in level design for it to work. Suppose our team needs to disable two objectives in any order to blow up the enemy ship. In single player we are stopped by the enemy boss before we can disable the second, and regardless of which we do first, the boss can always be at the second. However, if we can split up and disable both at once, how should the game respond?
If both players can act separately, the narrative implication is that there are two protagonists.
I like the idea of a sort of Noble 6 character in the game and would love for the coop to offer a narrative focused on the players character.
> 2533274801036271;1:
> *Disclaimer: Not here to talk about how we have to wait 3 months for co-op, I’m sorry if that affects you personally, I really am. This topic is not to discuss that or to debate if delays are necessary, there are enough topics about that. Please be respectful and leave that discussion and type of comment out of this topic.*Okay then, let’s not pretend co-op wasn’t just some tacked on feature at first in Halo, you literally just played as a second Master Chief. Over time the co-op characters have been properly intertwined into the story which is great, why not go a step further?
>
> We know the campaign has already evolved and we are now looking at a potentially open world campaign. For co-op there could be different dialogue options, the co-op characters could be incorporated differently into the story and cutscenes than if it was single player (unlikely but that would be hype), we could even get some co-op only areas that need multiple players to be fully accessed and explored.
>
> The story trailer was about Chief and no other Spartans in sight so it makes me think this won’t work like Halo 5 for instance where you had your team with you as AI and the co-op players just seamlessly assumed their roles. Maybe this hints it is being handled differently, surely they wouldn’t go back to 2x Master Chiefs like the original Halo CE.
>
> Most video games just feel so similar in both modes, obviously more fun with friends but it’s still the exact same game with no differences in single player or co-op, would love to see Halo go beyond.
first congratulations for the topic. second taste of the lone wolf from early games so I get excited about the story alone. and third and last if it was a case of postponing to have a better cooperative story I think they would report.
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> >
> > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> >
> > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
>
> The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
>
> I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
>
> I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
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> > > >
> > >
> > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > >
> > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> >
> > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> >
> > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> >
> > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
>
> Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
I think the biggest reason that co-op campaign isn’t there at launch is simply what 343 said it was, that there was technical issues that they could not fix and get to an acceptable level in time for launch. I don’t think that co-op campaign will differ dramatically from single player campaign. The main story beats will most likely remain the same, the player 2-3 character may be just Chief clones or they could use multiplayer spartans, although I don’t think they will show up during cutscenes. I think it probably came down to an issue where its difficult to have progress sync up smoothly when you can have technically 4 players running around an open world Halo ring and someone does something when someone else isn’t there. Do you make that world event just go away even if only one person participated while everyone else is wandering somewhere else? Or do you teleport everyone else over to where one player is doing some kind of activity? I think those are the kinds of things that 343 is dealing with in terms of co-op campaign. Sounds really simple to figure out but I imagine there is quite a bit of background technical stuff that goes into it.
> 2533274866022405;11:
> I think the biggest reason that co-op campaign isn’t there at launch is simply what 343 said it was, that there was technical issues that they could not fix and get to an acceptable level in time for launch. I don’t think that co-op campaign will differ dramatically from single player campaign. The main story beats will most likely remain the same, the player 2-3 character may be just Chief clones or they could use multiplayer spartans, although I don’t think they will show up during cutscenes. I think it probably came down to an issue where its difficult to have progress sync up smoothly when you can have technically 4 players running around an open world Halo ring and someone does something when someone else isn’t there. Do you make that world event just go away even if only one person participated while everyone else is wandering somewhere else? Or do you teleport everyone else over to where one player is doing some kind of activity? I think those are the kinds of things that 343 is dealing with in terms of co-op campaign. Sounds really simple to figure out but I imagine there is quite a bit of background technical stuff that goes into it.
I think the skeleton for the future of co-op will be there when it release however technical reasons such as tethering, stability, and making sure everything is synced most likely delayed it.
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > > >
> > > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> > >
> > > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> > >
> > > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> > >
> > > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
> >
> > Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
>
> How do you know? Have you played the campaign?
Yes. I also know you can’t just toss on an integral feature on a whim one day as well.
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> > > >
> > > > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> > > >
> > > > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> > > >
> > > > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
> > >
> > > Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
> >
> > How do you know? Have you played the campaign?
>
> Yes. I also know you can’t just toss on an integral feature on a whim one day as well.
Point is lets not talk in absolutes since we literally don’t know.
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > > > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> > > > >
> > > > > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
> > > >
> > > > Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
> > >
> > > How do you know? Have you played the campaign?
> >
> > Yes. I also know you can’t just toss on an integral feature on a whim one day as well.
>
> Point is lets not talk in absolutes since we literally don’t know.
I literally know co-op is not some thing you can instantly tack on.
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > > > > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
> > > > >
> > > > > Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
> > > >
> > > > How do you know? Have you played the campaign?
> > >
> > > Yes. I also know you can’t just toss on an integral feature on a whim one day as well.
> >
> > Point is lets not talk in absolutes since we literally don’t know.
>
> I literally know co-op is not some thing you can instantly tack on.
Meh, LAN immediately counters how “tacked on” split screen apparently was. Combat evolved was all about split screen co-op and system linking to friends and running big house parties to play it. It’s hard to call that tacked on when you’d have multiple xboxes all playing split screen together, LAN is a great counter for anyone saying it’s just “tacked on”
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > > > > > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you know? Have you played the campaign?
> > > >
> > > > Yes. I also know you can’t just toss on an integral feature on a whim one day as well.
>
> Meh, LAN immediately counters how “tacked on” split screen apparently was. Combat evolved was all about split screen co-op and system linking to friends and running big house parties to play it. It’s hard to call that tacked on when you’d have multiple xboxes all playing split screen together, LAN is a great counter for anyone saying it’s just “tacked on”
They almost didn’t ship Halo CE with any form of multiplayer, I can assure you it was not a key focus when the game was created. It was only developed thanks to a small team of passionate people who pushed for it and worked on it. When I say tacked on I mean it clearly wasn’t incorporated properly into the story, you didn’t even have a second character like Arbiter in Halo 3. Any game where the co-op is the exact same game but you both play as the protagonist or the 2nd player is different, but not mentioned or acknowledged in any way is tacked on in my opinion.
I’m not debating that it isn’t great to play co-op on the original game, Halo CE is extremely fun to play in co-op. I prefer it that way. Doesn’t it mean it wasn’t poorly implemented originally from a atmospheric perspective. You both are reading into my choice of words far too much and not adding to the topic discussion which is whether or not we think the game will have any key differences that separate the single player and co-op experiences and what those could be.
I’m saying that co-op now in games is often so different to how it used to be and am hopeful we are getting more and better content from it now. In Halo 3 they actually acknowledged the fact the Arbiter was there or not. The game was slightly different in solo and co-op. I hope that is how this game is, but to a greater degree.
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You: Please don’t turn this into a debate about the merit of co-op.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also you: Proceeds to -Yoink- on co-op by calling it tacked on.-
> > > > > > > > > If co-op is so easily tacked on, then why isn’t it in for launch? hmm? Rather than have you answer a question you can’t worm yourself out of, better yet, how about you just not make highly inflammatory statements? Can you try that? Please?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The entire point of that was it was tacked on originally and has since been developed to be fully fledged part of the game series now. The entire reason I mentioned it was to state that the way the campaign reveal was set up was in a way that co-op could potentially be different somehow as it is framed as Chief alone.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can’t see them going back to this version where the co-op doesn’t make sense in the context of the story i.e just 2-4 Master Chiefs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m in no way diminishing the merit of co-op in this game, quite the opposite.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Except it wasn’t tacked on and if co-op could simply be tacked on it would be there at launch for Infinite. Nobody cares that there were two Master Chiefs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How do you know? Have you played the campaign?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. I also know you can’t just toss on an integral feature on a whim one day as well.
> >
> > Meh, LAN immediately counters how “tacked on” split screen apparently was. Combat evolved was all about split screen co-op and system linking to friends and running big house parties to play it. It’s hard to call that tacked on when you’d have multiple xboxes all playing split screen together, LAN is a great counter for anyone saying it’s just “tacked on”
>
> They almost didn’t ship Halo CE with any form of multiplayer, I can assure you it was not a key focus when the game was created. It was only developed thanks to a small team of passionate people who pushed for it and worked on it. When I say tacked on I mean it clearly wasn’t incorporated properly into the story, you didn’t even have a second character like Arbiter in Halo 3. Any game where the co-op is the exact same game but you both play as the protagonist or the 2nd player is different, but not mentioned or acknowledged in any way is tacked on in my opinion.
>
> I’m not debating that it isn’t great to play co-op on the original game, Halo CE is extremely fun to play in co-op. I prefer it that way. Doesn’t it mean it wasn’t poorly implemented originally from a atmospheric perspective. You both are reading into my choice of words far too much and not adding to the topic discussion which is whether or not we think the game will have any key differences that separate the single player and co-op experiences and what those could be.
>
> I’m saying that co-op now in games is often so different to how it used to be and am hopeful we are getting more and better content from it now. In Halo 3 they actually acknowledged the fact the Arbiter was there or not. The game was slightly different in solo and co-op. I hope that is how this game is, but to a greater degree.
In modern games yes, you tend to have a 2nd protagonist when you play co-op that isn’t a copy of the first. In regards to it differing or acknowledging there being a 2nd player it depends, you tend to see that more in an RPG but it can be in a shooter albeit I wouldn’t bet on it being to far ummm, fleshed out. Something like halo 3 would probably be the most that’d happen again. Especially if the games been in development hell like a lot of the rumors are saying. The idea would be great however.
Honestly I actually prefer the halo 1/2/4 way. The arbiter just being with the chief the whole time instead of popping up for story moments is kind of sad and robs him of almost all character moments except for Truth’s death.
The squad mechanics in 5 left much to be desired as well.
> 2533274964189700;19:
> Honestly I actually prefer the halo 1/2/4 way. The arbiter just being with the chief the whole time instead of popping up for story moments is kind of sad and robs him of almost all character moments except for Truth’s death.
>
> The squad mechanics in 5 left much to be desired as well.
That’s fair. Do you think they might approach it outside of these two options?