What if Sprint was in Halo 2?

This to all the people who think just because sprint “was almost in halo 2” that it should be in Halo 5 and that people should accept it because “IT WAS ALMOST IN HALO 2”. Sprint was cut for a reason back in Halo 2 because they knew Halo did not need it in order to be successful.

What if Sprint was in Halo 2?

NOTE: I am aware this is my 3rd duplicate of this topic. The first one was on the wrong forum page and the second one was on the right one but locked for being a duplicate. Please lock the other two and let this one remain open.

Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.

I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.

> 2533274810150284;2:
> Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
>
> I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.

The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.

> 2535452061157766;3:
> > 2533274810150284;2:
> > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> >
> > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
>
>
> The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.

And you know that how exactly?

Besides, Bungie is the same company that thought ARMOR LOCK was a good idea. I think that invalidates their opinion in terms of evolving gameplay.

> 2535452061157766;3:
> > 2533274810150284;2:
> > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> >
> > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
>
>
> The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.

I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.

> 2533274812698627;4:
> > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > >
> > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> >
> >
> > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
>
>
> And you know that how exactly?
>
> Besides, Bungie is the same company that thought ARMOR LOCK was a good idea. I think that invalidates their opinion in terms of evolving gameplay.

I understand that companies make mistakes. I’m willing to bet if Bungie would have made another Halo. Armor lock wouldn’t have been in the game.

> 2533274810150284;2:
> Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
>
> I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.

I can’t say you’re wrong, but I would stronly moderate your claim, because as far as we know, this is only your interpretation of the pacing issue.

You imply that the pacing issue is solely due to the fact that the maps were not built around it, but the guy who told this never explicitly said that. The pacing issue is all that have been given to us. It can be related to map design, jerky gameplay, modified fighting style, long-range combat being favored, etc. or combinations of that.

I personaly don’t think Sprint can work with Halo’s gameplay, but beyond that, I think you extrapolate and go further than what we really know about the pacing issue they were talking about.

> 2533274978553590;5:
> > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > >
> > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> >
> >
> > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
>
>
> I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.

Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.

> 2535452061157766;8:
> > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > >
> > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > >
> > >
> > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> >
> >
> > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
>
>
> Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.

And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?

> 2533274812698627;9:
> > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> >
> >
> > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
>
>
> And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?

No spring takes that away. Run n Gun is shooting while moving at max speed. All sprint does is stretch out maps.

> 2533274812698627;9:
> > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> >
> >
> > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
>
>
> And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?

“Run and Gun” stands for having 100% of you combat ability while having 100% of your movement ability. This is not the case with Sprint since you have to chose between being at full-combat efficiency or being at full-speed.

> 2533274812698627;9:
> > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> >
> >
> > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
>
>
> And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?

No, sprint just removes the “gun” in “run’n’gun”.

> 2533274940426117;11:
> > 2533274812698627;9:
> > > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
> >
> >
> > And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?
>
>
> “Run and Gun” stands for having 100% of you combat ability while having 100% of your movement ability. This is not the case with Sprint since you have to chose between being at full-combat efficiency or being at full-speed.

Run and Gun has no set definition. It was originally used to describe games that had a emphasized movement and shooting system in all general directions. Rather than an on rails type of things.

> 2533274848599184;13:
> > 2533274940426117;11:
> > > 2533274812698627;9:
> > > > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
> > >
> > >
> > > And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?
> >
> >
> > “Run and Gun” stands for having 100% of you combat ability while having 100% of your movement ability. This is not the case with Sprint since you have to chose between being at full-combat efficiency or being at full-speed.
>
>
> Run and Gun has no set definition. It was originally used to describe games that had a emphasized movement and shooting system in all general directions. Rather than an on rails type of things.

It’s true that nothing is formally set, but this particular definition in the context of Halo especially applies to classic Halo and is not verified any more with sprint (I already had this kind of discussion, was it with you?).

> 2533274940426117;14:
> > 2533274848599184;13:
> > > 2533274940426117;11:
> > > > 2533274812698627;9:
> > > > > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > > > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?
> > >
> > >
> > > “Run and Gun” stands for having 100% of you combat ability while having 100% of your movement ability. This is not the case with Sprint since you have to chose between being at full-combat efficiency or being at full-speed.
> >
> >
> > Run and Gun has no set definition. It was originally used to describe games that had a emphasized movement and shooting system in all general directions. Rather than an on rails type of things.
>
>
> It’s true that nothing is formally set, but this particular definition in the context of Halo especially applies to classic Halo and is not verified any more with sprint (I already had this kind of discussion, was it with you?).

Not sure. I still dont see how it applies to an argument. Run and Gun isnt necessarily better. And there are definitely moments when you must sacrifice the ability to fight back to cover some terrain (vehicles on large maps, think Warthog/Mongoose, even Ghost to an extent). I dont see how the Run and Gun classification can make sprint obsolete. The way I see it, the optimal combat speed and the actual combat speed are the same, which is not the case is any other game on the market. That to me makes this more run and gun than anything, being that now you have an enhanced movement “buff” at all times

Haha bungie said they removed it because it “caused pacing issues”

Ahh, back in the days when people who understood halo made halo.

> 2533274812698627;4:
> > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > >
> > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> >
> >
> > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
>
>
> And you know that how exactly?
>
> Besides, Bungie is the same company that thought ARMOR LOCK was a good idea. I think that invalidates their opinion in terms of evolving gameplay.

The actual people who made h2 and reach are by and large, not the same people.

> 2533274848599184;15:
> > 2533274940426117;14:
> > > 2533274848599184;13:
> > > > 2533274940426117;11:
> > > > > 2533274812698627;9:
> > > > > > 2535452061157766;8:
> > > > > > > 2533274978553590;5:
> > > > > > > > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > > > > > > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > > > > > > > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve been playing Halo since 2006, starting with Halo 2, and I think it’s much more enjoyable when we have the ability to sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint ruins maps designed and gameplay. Halo is suppose to be Run n Gun.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And Sprint adds the “run” in Run’n’Gun. What’s the problem?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > “Run and Gun” stands for having 100% of you combat ability while having 100% of your movement ability. This is not the case with Sprint since you have to chose between being at full-combat efficiency or being at full-speed.
> > >
> > >
> > > Run and Gun has no set definition. It was originally used to describe games that had a emphasized movement and shooting system in all general directions. Rather than an on rails type of things.
> >
> >
> > It’s true that nothing is formally set, but this particular definition in the context of Halo especially applies to classic Halo and is not verified any more with sprint (I already had this kind of discussion, was it with you?).
>
>
> Not sure. I still dont see how it applies to an argument. Run and Gun isnt necessarily better (1). And there are definitely moments when you must sacrifice the ability to fight back to cover some terrain (vehicles on large maps, think Warthog/Mongoose, even Ghost to an extent) (2). I dont see how the Run and Gun classification can make sprint obsolete. The way I see it, the optimal combat speed and the actual combat speed are the same (3), which is not the case is any other game on the market (4). That to me makes this more run and gun than anything, being that now you have an enhanced movement “buff” at all times

Numbered for clarity.

(1) Yeah on this one, we will go nowhere since this is an entirely subjective consideration.

(2) Sacrificing your ability to fight for vehicles is a completly different point because they are gameplay elements added to enhanced the fight on large maps (this is mainly relevant to BTB, but not to Arena in general). Even if you cannot shoot while driving, you can still splatter and you can move extremely fast on the maps compared to players. There is a balance issue. But Sprint is different. Sprint is a base ability, meaning that if I want to use this default ability which is given at spawn to all players, then I can’t participate to the fight at all. Which brings me to (3).

(3) I don’t understand the difference between optimal and actual combat speeds. The maps are built upon the sprint mechanics. If I want/need to move on the maps efficiently, I’ll have to sprint. But if I sprint, I can’t fight, I can’t teamshot, I’m useless to my team. Conversely, if I’m in a fight, I can’t move fluently on the maps because they have been thought for maximum speed. The fact that I have to chose between these two configurations clearly changes the pace of the game from a Run and Gun (Classic) to a Run or Gun (with sprint) gameplay.

(4) What other games do is not really relevant to the discussion. Yes, in other games, “the optimal combat speed and the actual combat speed are not the same” as you said. But this distinction does not exist in Halo, and that’s where I disagree with your idea on this concept. In classic Halos, we indeed had a unique move&combat speed. The optimal combat speed was the actual combat speed, and the optimal move speed. In Halo with sprint, we have either a combat speed, or a maximum non-combat speed. It’s not between actual and optimal speeds, it’s between a combat-phase and a non-combat (sprint) phase. Hence the Run or Gun.

Whether we like it or not is a different matter, but yes, it is game-changing.

> 2533274812698627;4:
> > 2535452061157766;3:
> > > 2533274810150284;2:
> > > Sprint was cut from Halo 2 because of pacing issues. They already had some multiplayer maps made and sprint didn’t play well on them. Halo 5’s maps are built around sprint specifically to avoid pacing issues.
> > >
> > > I really wish people would stop using the “sprint wouldn’t work in Halo 2” line to try to somehow prove a point about sprint in general. Just because sprint would have been bad in Halo 2 (at least in Arena, some of the BTB maps would have really benefitted from it) doesn’t mean that sprint can’t work in any future Halo title.
> >
> >
> > The only reason sprint is in Halo is to attract other crowds. It’s not meant evolve Halo, it’s meant to hopefully sell more copies.
>
>
> And you know that how exactly?
>
> Besides, Bungie is the same company that thought ARMOR LOCK was a good idea. I think that invalidates their opinion in terms of evolving gameplay.

Probably because i343 has more or less stated it.

“Sprint is in because the modern/average gamer expects it”

Or something along those lines, then there was about immersion and some small attempts at gameplay reasons.

Please use this thread to discuss this topic, thanks.