What if halo never changed its gameplay formula?

What if bungie still had control over the halo franchise, and that they have kept the gamplay mechanics the exact same for every halo game? Let’s pretend that we’re in an alternate universe where bungie didn’t add any new mechanics or take away any mechanics either, just kept it the exact same for each halo game. Now halo 5 is coming out, and don’t worry! The gameplay mechanics are still the same, no new mechanics added! How do you think the MAJORITY of halo fans would react?

Im not talking about the MLG players, but just regular halo fans. Would they praise bungie for making halo stay true to its gaming roots? Or would they criticize and bash bungie for rehashing the same thing and not changing the formula? We all know the call of duty franchise has been hated on and bashed because of this very reason. What makes people think this wouldn’t happen to halo? Sure, you can still change the game without changing the gameplay mechanics. You can add some new weapons, maps, and game modes, and vehicles but how long would this last? You can leave the formula the same for 2, maybe 3 games; but after a while, people are going to notice and are going to get bored. After a few games, people are gonna want something fresh added to the gameplay.

I know what you’re gonna say next. Counter strike has never changed its gameplay mechanics and it’s still going strong to this day. But how strong is the series on consoles? Counter strike GO might be loved within the PC community, but the console community forgot about it in less than a month. The PC community is very different than the console crowd. The PC community can embrace a game long after it’s release. Halos 1-3 didn’t change the formula much at all, but still did very well on consoles. The reason why is simply because halo was the first major FPS to be released on consoles at the time. When Halo CE was released, it was the only major FPS on the xbox that was famous. When halo 2 released, the fan base got even larger, but was still the only popular FPS franchise on the xbox. When halo 3 came out, the call of duty franchise just then was beginning it’s rise to fame.

Many people on these forums will always talk about how halo reach and 4’s populations fell significantly after it’s release, while halo 1,2, and 3’s remained strong for a long time after their release. The reason for this is because halo reached its peak with halo 3, at a time where halo was the only popular FPS on the xbox. A game series peak can’t last forever, and eventually, the fan base population goes down. This is happening much more on consoles than PC because more games come out for consoles, which makes it harder for people to play and stick with a single game. Modern warfare 3 was the peak of the series, selling 26.5 million copies worldwide. But now we are seeing that the call of duty fan base is starting to dwindle; call of duty ghosts sold only 14.5 million copies, which is a little more than half the sales modern warfare 3 got. We all know call of duty hasn’t changed much since call of duty 4, and has been the same rehashed crap with every new release, which is causing the series’ downfall. Call of duty 4 was very different than previous call of duties; they tried something new, and they hit the jackpot.

Am I saying that each halo game needs to be drastically different than the previous one? Of course not, I loved the original ones, and I feel like the new games should have the same feel the older games had. But halo needs to change the gameplay mechanics every now and then in order to keep the franchise fresh. You can’t keep the franchise the same forever and expect it to stay on top forever. I wouldn’t say halo’s fan base is shrinking because of change, but rather because the console crowd and gaming market are very different than they were 10 years ago. I made this topic because every time I see a thread criticizing 343 for changing halo, I think it’s silly. You can’t expect a series to stay primitive forever and still stay on top, it doesn’t work that way.

The community would still say those games sucked as compared to the previous ones just like they did with Halo 2 compared to Halo: CE and Halo 3 as compared to Halo 2. Nothing would fundamentally change about how this community would react.

I’d own an XB1 instead of a PS4.

And did you just say h3 had no competition lol?

H3 was released in 2007 which is widely considered as the second strongest year in the history of gaming(after 1998). This was also at the beginning of a console cycle so the install base of people who owned a 360 was fairly small.

H3 had intense competition and a small number of people to compete over.

Change isn’t inherently bad. Some of Reach’s, H4’s and now H5’s changes have just been awful though.

Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.

I know it sounds weird or biased to say this, but I don’t think the series should continue down this path; using Halo Reach as a base, (when it was basically a one-shot) and basically modding it with each new title… That worked when the formula was clear-cut, and easily recognizable, with the first three games being unmistakably blood brothers, and I don’t believe it has that same effect on the series anymore, since the formula they are currently using has deviated too far from that…

I’ll keep this terse: Call of Duty DOES stay the same with little changing, yes. Call of Duty gets slammed because of that, yes. But, Call of Duty is always rising in popularity. Why? Because the people who like this gameplay keep buying it, and other new players enjoy it and continue to buy it.

Halo was the same. Halo: CE sold great, Halo 2 did better, Halo 3 did amazing. Reach sold under projected amounts within two years. Halo 4 sold worse than Halo 3, Halo MCC sold less than Halo 4(MCC is a series of remakes , just like Halo: Anni it sold to a niche market. So this was expected.)

Halo is dying because of the change that is happening. You can state that there is more competition now, but that only matters to online population count, not sales with a title like Halo.

If Halo hadn’t changed out course we would all complain and want new things, but it would growing still and not dying. Anyone who says it isn’t dying clearly doesn’t understand numbers. Halo: CE to Halo 2 isn’t talked about nearly as much, but that was a huge change. The difference with this game is that it was just one game getting different. Then, after Halo 3, just like with triangulation for pinpointing GPS locations, Halo had found what defines Halo. Halo: CE - 3 are not as big of a change in how the player structures their play style as Halo Reach and onward are, because at this point Halo had already “triangulated” what makes Halo ’ Halo.’

You can feel free to fact check me. I’m more than confident.

> 2535460843083983;5:
> Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.

Ya, this too.

You’re really going to sit here and tell me that the jump from HCE to H2 was nothing?

> 2535416100417097;7:
> > 2535460843083983;5:
> > Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.
>
>
> Ya, this too.
>
> You’re really going to sit here and tell me that the jump from HCE to H2 was nothing?

I think he was talking about the jump from H2 to H3.

> 2533274812652989;2:
> The community would still say those games sucked as compared to the previous ones just like they did with Halo 2 compared to Halo: CE and Halo 3 as compared to Halo 2. Nothing would fundamentally change about how this community would react.

I’m betting on this too. The old games set the standards so high and the nostalgia makes it even worse because people believe that they will never have the good times and fun that they had playing halo 3.

> 2535416100417097;4:
> And did you just say h3 had no competition lol?
>
> H3 was released in 2007 which is widely considered as the second strongest year in the history of gaming(after 1998). This was also at the beginning of a console cycle so the install base of people who owned a 360 was fairly small.
>
> H3 had intense competition and a small number of people to compete over.
>
> Change isn’t inherently bad. Some of Reach’s, H4’s and now H5’s changes have just been awful though.

Halo 3 didn’t have any competition from other FPS games at the time of its release. Call of duty was just starting to become a popular franchise. I wasn’t too fond of halo reach or 4’s gameplay, but I enjoy halo 5’s gameplay a lot.

> 2535460843083983;5:
> Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.
>
> I know it sounds weird or biased to say this, but I don’t think the series should continue down this path; using Halo Reach as a base, and basically modding it with each new title. That worked when the formula was clear-cut, and easily recognizable, with the first three games being unmistakably blood brothers, and I don’t believe it has that same effect on the series anymore, since the formula they are currently using has deviated too far from that…

The first 3 halos didn’t really change much in terms of gameplay. While halo 4 feels like a modified halo reach, I don’t think this way about halo 5 at all. I like to think that halo 5 stands separate from halo reach and 4. I love the new abilities in halo 5, like smart scope, ground pound, thrust and clamber. Sprint may not belong in the halo franchise, but I feel like halo 5 had balanced it pretty well. If it were up to me though, I don’t think I would have introduced sprint into the franchise to begin with.

> 2535434588318471;10:
> > 2535416100417097;4:
> > And did you just say h3 had no competition lol?
> >
> > H3 was released in 2007 which is widely considered as the second strongest year in the history of gaming(after 1998). This was also at the beginning of a console cycle so the install base of people who owned a 360 was fairly small.
> >
> > H3 had intense competition and a small number of people to compete over.
> >
> > Change isn’t inherently bad. Some of Reach’s, H4’s and now H5’s changes have just been awful though.
>
>
>
>
> Halo 3 didn’t have any competition from other FPS games at the time of its release. Call of duty was just starting to become a popular franchise. I wasn’t too fond of halo reach or 4’s gameplay, but I enjoy halo 5’s gameplay a lot.

People play games besides FPS games lol. The game that kept me off of H3 the longest was fallout 3.

Even if im going to humour your ridiculous assertion that people that play FPS games only play FPS games for some reason. H3 went up head to head vs COD4, gears, rainbow six vegas and then a couple years later MW2 and a host of others. Even 3 years after launch H3 was still the second most played game on the XBL activity charts. Reach and H4 couldn’t even stay in the top 5 for a year.

Lets not forget that H3 competed against a juggernaut genre that doesn’t even exist now; music games. Rock Band and guitar hero were insanely popular.

H3 was the most played XBL game in 08 lol. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/halo-3-tops-xbl-activity-in-2008/1100-6202697/
A year and a half after launch, it was #1.

People didn’t suddenly stop liking Halo. They changed Halo into something most poeple didn’t like.

In 2013 H4 almost fell behind MW2 lol.

> 2771858342100481;6:
> I’ll keep this terse: Call of Duty DOES stay the same with little changing, yes. Call of Duty gets slammed because of that, yes. But, Call of Duty is always rising in popularity. Why? Because the people who like this gameplay keep buying it, and other new players enjoy it and continue to buy it.
>
> Halo was the same. Halo: CE sold great, Halo 2 did better, Halo 3 did amazing. Reach sold under projected amounts within two years. Halo 4 sold worse than Halo 3, Halo MCC sold less than Halo 4(MCC is a series of remakes , just like Halo: Anni it sold to a niche market. So this was expected.)
>
> Halo is dying because of the change that is happening. You can state that there is more competition now, but that only matters to online population count, not sales with a title like Halo.
>
> If Halo hadn’t changed out course we would all complain and want new things, but it would growing still and not dying. Anyone who says it isn’t dying clearly doesn’t understand numbers. Halo: CE to Halo 2 isn’t talked about nearly as much, but that was a huge change. The difference with this game is that it was just one game getting different. Then, after Halo 3, just like with triangulation for pinpointing GPS locations, Halo had found what defines Halo. Halo: CE - 3 are not as big of a change in how the player structures their play style as Halo Reach and onward are, because at this point Halo had already “triangulated” what makes Halo ’ Halo.’
>
> You can feel free to fact check me. I’m more than confident.

Call of duty was rising in popularity, but is now going in a downward direction. The sales of call of duty: ghosts shows this, and now forbes is saying that advanced warfare’s sales are 27% lower than ghosts! So no, the call of duty franchise is not getting increasingly popular like you claim it is.

While I agree that halo reach and 4 were a step in the wrong direction, I feel like halo 5 is correcting this. Halo 5 is almost nothing like halo reach and 4. To be honest, halo CE - halo 2’s change was pretty minor, at best, I’m talking about this “gameplay mechanics-wise”. The gameplay mechanics in CE and halo 2 are nearly identical. Halo 3 did change the gamplay a little by introducing equipment though.

> 2535416100417097;7:
> > 2535460843083983;5:
> > Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.
>
>
> Ya, this too.
>
> You’re really going to sit here and tell me that the jump from HCE to H2 was nothing?

It wasn’t nothing, but in terms of gameplay mechanics, it was very little…

> 2535434588318471;15:
> > 2535416100417097;7:
> > > 2535460843083983;5:
> > > Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ya, this too.
> >
> > You’re really going to sit here and tell me that the jump from HCE to H2 was nothing?
>
>
> It wasn’t nothing, but in terms of gameplay mechanics, it was very little…

-_______-

> 2535416100417097;12:
> > 2535434588318471;10:
> > > 2535416100417097;4:
> > > And did you just say h3 had no competition lol?
> > >
> > > H3 was released in 2007 which is widely considered as the second strongest year in the history of gaming(after 1998). This was also at the beginning of a console cycle so the install base of people who owned a 360 was fairly small.
> > >
> > > H3 had intense competition and a small number of people to compete over.
> > >
> > > Change isn’t inherently bad. Some of Reach’s, H4’s and now H5’s changes have just been awful though.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Halo 3 didn’t have any competition from other FPS games at the time of its release. Call of duty was just starting to become a popular franchise. I wasn’t too fond of halo reach or 4’s gameplay, but I enjoy halo 5’s gameplay a lot.
>
>
> People play games besides FPS games lol. The game that kept me off of H3 the longest was fallout 3.
>
> Even if im going to humour your ridiculous assertion that people that play FPS games only play FPS games for some reason. H3 went up head to head vs COD4, gears, rainbow six vegas and then a couple years later MW2 and a host of others. Even 3 years after launch H3 was still the second most played game on the XBL activity charts. Reach and H4 couldn’t even stay in the top 5 for a year.
>
> Lets not forget that H3 competed against a juggernaut genre that doesn’t even exist now; music games. Rock Band and guitar hero were insanely popular.
>
> H3 was the most played XBL game in 08 lol. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/halo-3-tops-xbl-activity-in-2008/1100-6202697/
> A year and a half after launch, it was #1.
>
> People didn’t suddenly stop liking Halo. They changed Halo into something most poeple didn’t like.

I’m talking about the realm of FPS games, not games in general.

> 2535416100417097;16:
> > 2535434588318471;15:
> > > 2535416100417097;7:
> > > > 2535460843083983;5:
> > > > Again, the assumption here is that Halo CE - Halo 3 didn’t have different formulas? How many times is this hypothetical question going to be raised, while completely discrediting the original games as being different, OP? Reach was the first game in the series to alter the formula drastically. This isn’t to say the older ones didn’t, or that Reach necessarily made all the wrong changes, but the fact of the matter, is that Reach was when Halo’s population truly started to decline, and fast.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ya, this too.
> > >
> > > You’re really going to sit here and tell me that the jump from HCE to H2 was nothing?
> >
> >
> >
> > It wasn’t nothing, but in terms of gameplay mechanics, it was very little…
>
>
> -_______-

:slight_smile:

> 2535434588318471;15:
> > 2535416100417097;7:
> > Ya, this too.
> >
> > You’re really going to sit here and tell me that the jump from HCE to H2 was nothing?
>
>
>
>
> It wasn’t nothing, but in terms of gameplay mechanics, it was very little…

You know what, though. The funny thing, is that some people outright despise Halo 2 multiplayer, and love Halo 3 multiplayer with every fiber of their being…

…Never made much sense to me :confused:

But something was different, to make them feel that way, I guess…

> 2535434588318471;17:
> > 2535416100417097;12:
> > > 2535434588318471;10:
> > > > 2535416100417097;4:
> > > > And did you just say h3 had no competition lol?
> > > >
> > > > H3 was released in 2007 which is widely considered as the second strongest year in the history of gaming(after 1998). This was also at the beginning of a console cycle so the install base of people who owned a 360 was fairly small.
> > > >
> > > > H3 had intense competition and a small number of people to compete over.
> > > >
> > > > Change isn’t inherently bad. Some of Reach’s, H4’s and now H5’s changes have just been awful though.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo 3 didn’t have any competition from other FPS games at the time of its release. Call of duty was just starting to become a popular franchise. I wasn’t too fond of halo reach or 4’s gameplay, but I enjoy halo 5’s gameplay a lot.
> >
> >
> >
> > People play games besides FPS games lol. The game that kept me off of H3 the longest was fallout 3.
> >
> > Even if im going to humour your ridiculous assertion that people that play FPS games only play FPS games for some reason. H3 went up head to head vs COD4, gears, rainbow six vegas and then a couple years later MW2 and a host of others. Even 3 years after launch H3 was still the second most played game on the XBL activity charts. Reach and H4 couldn’t even stay in the top 5 for a year.
> >
> > Lets not forget that H3 competed against a juggernaut genre that doesn’t even exist now; music games. Rock Band and guitar hero were insanely popular.
> >
> > H3 was the most played XBL game in 08 lol. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/halo-3-tops-xbl-activity-in-2008/1100-6202697/
> > A year and a half after launch, it was #1.
> >
> > People didn’t suddenly stop liking Halo. They changed Halo into something most poeple didn’t like.
>
>
> I’m talking about the realm of FPS games, not games in general.

Why? That’s an irrelevant view. FPS games don’t live in a bubble. Non FPS games can draw population away from Halo just as easily as other FPS games.