What I Think are Good Changes to Living Dead

Games Other Halo
1

It would seem that the Living Dead playlist doesn’t need many changes, since it has the highest population, but, after a while, playing in it gets rather boring. All you are doing is finding some place to hide/camp and killing weak zombies, game after game. There are only two gamestypes that are almost identical, and the maps are default. Is this why there are so many people playing it? Because it is easy to get kills?
What about the fun of the game? Remember Halo 3’s Living Dead. There were maps edited to fit the zombie theme and gametypes spiced up the gaming variety. Infection also needs involves a challenge to survive, but with added creativity, kind of like zombies in Call of Duty or some other survival games out there. At least, that’s what keeps me playing Call of Duty zombies, rather than Halo Infection.
Basically, improvements to Living Dead can include zombie/human trait adjustment, map selection, and gametypes.

Zombie Traits

First thing, zombies are too weak. This makes being a zombie a dreadful thing, as they are almost instantly killed when out in the open. The challenge needs to be with the humans, not the zombies. Some ideas to fix this include:

1.) Immunity to headshots. (Solution to pistol sniping)
2.) Choice to choose between sprint and evade loadouts. (Varying movements can be a small challenge for humans)
3.) Wielding other types of close-range weapons. (gravity hammer?)

Map Selection

The current maps are pretty bland. Why use just default maps? Halo 3’s zombie maps had more cover/objects to make it fit more with a zombie theme. With FX filters (Juicy, Next Gen, etc.), that can add more to the feel.

Also, why just stick with edited maps, while there are countless community maps featuring abandoned cities, haunted manors, and some other crazy places. Wouldn’t you rather have these than default maps? I would. They are more places to explore.

Furthermore, why limit Infection to just the normal “killing-of-zombies-to-defend-yourself” type of thing. Have you heard of zombie maps that are specifically created for these gametypes? They are crazy fun at times and would make Living Dead as enjoyable as Halo 3 again. However, this should be used only to some extent.

Basically here is what I mean:
1.) Change default maps to fit zombies better. (More objects/cover/effects)
2.) Use Community Maps
3.) Go beyond classic zombies into extreme Infection (Only to some extent)

Infection Gametypes

The current gametypes are bland, just like the current maps. All there is is “Infection” in which all zombies are the same (they are all weak), and “Alpha Zombies” which I don’t understand why the Alpha Zombies are not strong. All they get is infinite sprint.

The fix to this is simple:
1.) Apply the trait(s) listed under “Zombie Traits” in this post for both.
2.) Give the Alpha Zombie a stronger health (125-150% damage resistance).

Then, just like the maps, let’s throw in some custom gametypes like the ones listed above. Also, some other from Halo 3’s Living Dead should also be given some thought (Creeping Death, Creeping Rockets, Save One Bullet, Speed Demons).

I am saying all this so Living Dead can be restored to its former glory. All that I have said I hope will make it better.

Edit: I see that no one has gotten my idea on Infection. Quite simply, make zombies slightly stronger, add new maps, and add new gametypes is all I ask.

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january update is to LD, no specific information has been released yet.

3

Minigames like Jenga, Halo on Halo, or Fat Kid wouldn’t be enjoyable with the matchmaking population. They would be too easy to exploit, without the option to boot the griefer.

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> I am saying all this so Living Dead can be restored to its former glory. All that I have said I hope will make it better.

Being restored to it’s former glory implies that in the past it was better.

I never played Infection in H2 because it was a custom gametype and I am foreveralone.jpg. In H3 Infection was garbage. In Reach it is still garbage. And I mean garbage. I could have more fun trying to lick a red hot skillet than playing Infection.

Why has to do with the simple fact that Zombies are made incredibly weak, designed to overwhelm with numbers. The problem then is that Zombies start off not only being weak, but outnumbered and outgunned. The shotgun in Infection is basically a OSK DMR and the Magnum allows you to OSK from nearly across the map.

And the scoring system does not benefit them at all.

It’s like ever single thing about Infection is made from pure fail.

Want a good Infection experience for H4? Then look at the very least look at Dead Space 2. If anything look at Left 4 Dead. While Dead Space 2 frustrated me playing as the Necromorph it is a far better experience than Infection in Halo.

Don’t want to bother with rebuilding Infection? Then the custom game variants should be the only choice. I’ve played Custom Infection games that have blown my socks off. Then blown them back on.

5

> > I am saying all this so Living Dead can be restored to its former glory. All that I have said I hope will make it better.
>
> Being restored to it’s former glory implies that in the past it was better.
>
> I never played Infection in H2 because it was a custom gametype and I am foreveralone.jpg. In H3 Infection was garbage. In Reach it is still garbage. And I mean garbage. I could have more fun trying to lick a red hot skillet than playing Infection.
>
> Why has to do with the simple fact that Zombies are made incredibly weak, designed to overwhelm with numbers. The problem then is that Zombies start off not only being weak, but outnumbered and outgunned. The shotgun in Infection is basically a OSK DMR and the Magnum allows you to OSK from nearly across the map.
>
> And the scoring system does not benefit them at all.
>
> It’s like ever single thing about Infection is made from pure fail.
>
> Want a good Infection experience for H4? Then look at the very least look at Dead Space 2. If anything look at Left 4 Dead. While Dead Space 2 frustrated me playing as the Necromorph it is a far better experience than Infection in Halo.
>
> Don’t want to bother with rebuilding Infection? Then the custom game variants should be the only choice. I’ve played Custom Infection games that have blown my socks off. Then blown them back on.

I agree to an extent, gametypes like Speed Halo is something that should NEVER be added to Living Dead, but gametypes that are fair for BOTH the Zombies & Humans, should be.

However, I have yet to play a gametype fair for Zombies in Reach after 15 months

6

> However, I have yet to play a gametype fair for Zombies in Reach after 15 months

Cops and Robbers is fun. I played a variant set on Alaska(?) in Forge World. Robbers (Humans) are on Mongooses, Cops (Zombies) in Warthogs. Obvious happens. A Falcon spawns late in the gametype too.

I also played another variant were Zombies were invisible (purple filter was on to make it harder to spot the shimmer) but trapped inside a compound. Humans spawned on the walls with rifles. There was a tower with a Sniper in it and a helipad with a Falcon parked on it. The Falcon had a hill attached to the bottom of it that worked like a search light. Any zombies “entering” the hill would have their Camo removed.

I played a final variant were all the Humans were inside a big forge made bowl driving Mongooses and the Zombies were up on the rim with various amounts of highly explosive weaponry.

All three were the most fun I’ve had in Reach save for BUNGLE games.

7

> > However, I have yet to play a gametype fair for Zombies in Reach after 15 months
>
> Cops and Robbers is fun. I played a variant set on Alaska(?) in Forge World. Robbers (Humans) are on Mongooses, Cops (Zombies) in Warthogs. Obvious happens. A Falcon spawns late in the gametype too.
>
> I also played another variant were Zombies were invisible (purple filter was on to make it harder to spot the shimmer) but trapped inside a compound. Humans spawned on the walls with rifles. There was a tower with a Sniper in it and a helipad with a Falcon parked on it. The Falcon had a hill attached to the bottom of it that worked like a search light. Any zombies “entering” the hill would have their Camo removed.
>
> I played a final variant were all the Humans were inside a big forge made bowl driving Mongooses and the Zombies were up on the rim with various amounts of highly explosive weaponry.
>
> All three were the most fun I’ve had in Reach save for BUNGLE games.

I think I might have played the second one, but I can’t find it.

8

Biggest problems with Living Dead are the maps and gametypes.

Community maps could easily fix the map problem, there are some great community maps, with some equally great gametypes to go with them.

And bring back Safe Havens, but change the scoring. Humans would score by reaching the next haven instead of getting kills, so it would encourage movement unlike the old version. Maybe also try giving each human a 1 minute timer, which resets to 1 minute if they don’t touch a haven. If the timer runs out, they become infected. This would further reduce camping.

9

> First thing, zombies are too weak . . . The challenge needs to be with the humans, not the zombies.

Have you played the Matchmaking Alpha Zombies variant in Custom Games on balanced, community-made Infection maps?

It is true that the Zombies are too weak on the default maps… But the maps affect far more than mere aesthetics; if the map is not balanced for Infection gameplay, then one side will inevitably be worse-off than the other even if – especially if – the gametype is perfectly balanced. I find that most people who hate the gametype are unaware of this factor, because they’ve only ever played it on bad maps, but they blame it and not the maps.

Also, the challenge shouldn’t be for the Humans or the Zombies. The challenge should be for the Humans and the Zombies.

> The current maps are pretty bland. Why use just default maps? Halo 3’s zombie maps had more cover/objects to make it fit more with a zombie theme. With FX filters (Juicy, Next Gen, etc.), that can add more to the feel.

This is true, but one needs to be careful about the specific edits made. On certain TVs, FX can make it difficult or impossible to see; even Juicy can be far too dark on some sets. The edits also have to promote good gameplay; quite a few of Halo 3’s Living Dead maps had edits that looked pretty, but made broken parts of the map worse.

> Also, why just stick with edited maps, while there are countless community maps featuring abandoned cities, haunted manors, and some other crazy places. Wouldn’t you rather have these than default maps? I would. They are more places to explore.

It’s my understanding that right now, 343i wants to allow four-player spit-screen gameplay in Living Dead. This would pretty much exclude nearly every built-from-scratch map, because Reach’s graphics engine is extremely weak in split-screen. If Living Dead is later changed to 2 local max, then Forge World maps may make it in.

> and “Alpha Zombies” which I don’t understand why the Alpha Zombies are not strong. All they get is infinite sprint.

On a balanced map, infinite Sprint is all they need.

A lot of people make Alpha Zombies stronger because they want to help the Zombies out early in the round – but they forget that the Alpha Zombies remain strong for the entire rest of the round. Buff them too much, and they become oppressively unfair for both sides: they outcompete fellow Zombies by virtue of being randomly handed a free handicap, and they become extremely difficult for the Humans to kill late-game (when the Humans lack strength in numbers).

> Also, some other from Halo 3’s Living Dead should also be given some thought (Creeping Death, Creeping Rockets, Save One Bullet, Speed Demons).

Those gametypes only lead to a suicide race: Humans try to get infected deliberately; it’s easier to kill as a Zombie, so the earliest-infected players get the most kills. The sole exception is Speed Demons, which always leads either to a suicide race or to Zombies being repeatedly cross-map-domed if the environment is too large and open.

Essentially, Reach’s Living Dead is horrible for Zombies. Those four gametypes are horrible for Humans.

> I see that no one has gotten my idea on Infection. Quite simply, make zombies slightly stronger, add new maps, and add new gametypes is all I ask.

People understand your idea very clearly. Reach’s Living Dead has been broken since the day it was created, however, so all of its problems and flaws have been discussed to death and back again. You ideas are – no disrespect – not new, and they, too, have been discussed extensively.

The main issue with your proposals is that you seem to be asking for all of these changes to be made at once. The problem there, however, is that there is a “sweet spot”: if 343 changes too little, then the Zombies remain disadvantaged; but if 343 changes too much, then the situation reverses and the game becomes grossly unfair for Humans. They need to make certain critical changes first – such as replacing all of the maps – and then wait to see their effects, before changing other things (like gametypes).

10

Oh wow, someone else who actually went into the options to see what we can change and try out other then demanding for patches to do the same thing.

Seriously, there’s so many different options to alter all different types of gameplay and everybody ignores all of it and just focus on fixing one or two things without trying any other options.

11

Living Dead playlist just needs some more community map love in it. Maps like Bart’s Manor or any of the haunted house style maps make for such interesting Zombie gameplay. Spartans are forced to hide and barricade themselves in a room watching all windows and doorways, while Zombies must sneak around corners and use unexpected tactics to infect the Spartans.

Please 343?

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> Living Dead playlist just needs some more community map love in it. Maps like Bart’s Manor or any of the haunted house style maps make for such interesting Zombie gameplay. Spartans are forced to hide and barricade themselves in a room watching all windows and doorways, while Zombies must sneak around corners and use unexpected tactics to infect the Spartans.
>
> Please 343?

you mean maps that give survivors an unfair advantage?

uh, no.

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> > Living Dead playlist just needs some more community map love in it. Maps like Bart’s Manor or any of the haunted house style maps make for such interesting Zombie gameplay. Spartans are forced to hide and barricade themselves in a room watching all windows and doorways, while Zombies must sneak around corners and use unexpected tactics to infect the Spartans.
> >
> > Please 343?
>
> you mean maps that give survivors an unfair advantage?
>
> uh, no.

umm… So playing Sword Base and Hang em High infection is awesome huh? no, it’s horrible. The haunted house style maps make things interesting with corridors and hallways that Zombies can come flying through. Survivors have less of a chance of holding out the Zombies which is why they play so much better. Instead of a ridiculous onslaught of Zombies, the survivors have to use every bit of ammunition and never take their eyes off of an exit or hole that a Zombie might use to crawl into.
Zombies are faster and jump way higher, these maps specialize in Zombie tactics and since Survivors are crammed inside one building, fighting off Zombies, it makes for such a better experience and gameplay.
Just custom maps alone will solve a lot of the problems on the Infection Playlist.

Bart’s Manor is a great example of a map I would like to see within the playlist. Default maps are not the way this playlist should be played. 343i needs to use Forge World variants to set the bar for matchmaking, especially in the Living Dead Playlist.

14

> > > Living Dead playlist just needs some more community map love in it. Maps like Bart’s Manor or any of the haunted house style maps make for such interesting Zombie gameplay. Spartans are forced to hide and barricade themselves in a room watching all windows and doorways, while Zombies must sneak around corners and use unexpected tactics to infect the Spartans.
> > >
> > > Please 343?
> >
> > you mean maps that give survivors an unfair advantage?
> >
> > uh, no.
>
> umm… So playing Sword Base and Hang em High infection is awesome huh? no, it’s horrible. The haunted house style maps make things interesting with corridors and hallways that Zombies can come flying through. Survivors have less of a chance of holding out the Zombies which is why they play so much better. Instead of a ridiculous onslaught of Zombies, the survivors have to use every bit of ammunition and never take their eyes off of an exit or hole that a Zombie might use to crawl into.
> Zombies are faster and jump way higher, these maps specialize in Zombie tactics and since Survivors are crammed inside one building, fighting off Zombies, it makes for such a better experience and gameplay.
> Just custom maps alone will solve a lot of the problems on the Infection Playlist.
>
> Bart’s Manor is a great example of a map I would like to see within the playlist. Default maps are not the way this playlist should be played. 343i needs to use Forge World variants to set the bar for matchmaking, especially in the Living Dead Playlist.

maps like barts manor are not the way forward and set a bad example, that map itself is easily exploited and gives survivors a massive advantage, you can even get on the roof and camp up there, the outside area is extremely open allowing survivors just to hide in a back corner and snipe people with pistols, inside it is nothing but a shotgun fest.

yes community maps should be used and no, none of that casual popular stuff that goes around in customs because they just don’t work.

maps more like this is what should be used

15

The teams should be invincible to eachother, because there are too many traitors. I’m cool with the way Living Dead is. It’s just that those traitors takes the fun out of it.

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> Biggest problems with Living Dead are the maps and gametypes.
>
> Community maps could easily fix the map problem, there are some great community maps, with some equally great gametypes to go with them.
>
> And bring back Safe Havens, but change the scoring. Humans would score by reaching the next haven instead of getting kills, so it would encourage movement unlike the old version. Maybe also try giving each human a 1 minute timer, which resets to 1 minute if they don’t touch a haven. If the timer runs out, they become infected. This would further reduce camping.

I think that Safe Havens should be brought back. As for reaching the next haven scoring, I don’t think that would be a good idea as the zombies will camp the haven. Maybe make the scoring system where Humans can only score points when they are in the Safe Haven but rather than invulnerability, humans have 1.5x overshields but a slow recharge rate when in the haven. If possible, double the amount of points zombies get if they kill a human in the haven.

17

> I think that Safe Havens should be brought back. As for reaching the next haven scoring, I don’t think that would be a good idea as the zombies will camp the haven. Maybe make the scoring system where Humans can only score points when they are in the Safe Haven but rather than invulnerability, humans have 1.5x overshields but a slow recharge rate when in the haven. If possible, double the amount of points zombies get if they kill a human in the haven.

Havens was interesting, but I think that its demise was caused as much by suboptimal placement in maps as by suboptimal settings.

The purpose of Safe Havens is to promote map movement and team coordination. However, Havens on most maps – especially the defaults – are not survivable. They’re insanely vulnerable – veritable deathtraps.

An Infection map should have multiple areas that Humans can defend if sufficiently skilled – multiple defensible positions – in order to promote variety in gameplay by giving the Humans several options for where to go and what to do… And I think that each defensible position should be a Haven. Enough with the small circular Havens in the centers of pits, subject to death from above and all around! We Forgers need to give the Humans some Safe Havens that actually live up to their name; only then will Humans be willing to use them, and only then will people be willing to play the gametype.

18

Humans shouldn’t have radar. That’s my biggest issue with this gametype.

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Or we can take down living dead all together

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> Or we can take down living dead all together

removing the most popular playlist in matchmaking is never going to be a good idea.