Seeing this thread still makes me sad. The thought of Halo 4 failing is depressing…But it won’t happen!
> Who cares if there are bad inheritors?
>
> I think Reach’s ranking is better because I suck at Reach.
Then you would want to be in a game with people that have the same skill level as you,no?
H4 could be a flop if the casual camp is listened to like they were for the development of Reach.
> If Halo 4 flops it will be because the developer didn’t listen to its community at all, and we will move on to a different franchise that at least halfway listens to the community and doesn’t use its games to try and sell every other product they make (Kinect in CEA).
That was all Microsoft’s doing.
For those of you claiming that Reach has sold more copies worldwide than Halo 3: I would be happy to concede the point if you supply me with a reference that supports this claim. Thus far, I haven’t seen a single one.
> <mark>The thought of Halo 4 being a flop at times seems like an inevitability. Between an untested team with dozens of employees from studios that were shut down due to poor quality games, and an impossible to please fanbase, I honestly don’t see how it COULD be a hit.</mark>
>
> Now I see one of two things happening: 343 makes a horrible game and everyone hates it, or 343 makes an awesome game and everyone hates it because it’s not precisely like their favorite iteration of a previous Halo.
>
> Really, that’s the issue with any franchise this big or with this many titles under it’s belt. There’s been so many different iterations that a new one will always anger the majority.
You have a point but lets look back at history for a moment. The American Revoloution was thought to be impossible to win, a bunch of rag tag fighters with no military experience whats so ever verses the most powerful militarial power in the world at that time, Britain. It is said that 1 British soldier had 6 times more experience than an American patriot. But who came up victorious? The American Patriots did. Sorry for the history lesson their. At any rate if you believe hard enough in what you believe (Halo 4), than it will most likely succeed. Think positively and positive things will come.
> > When it comes to online experience “flop” is a very subjective term. If you happen to be just a regular gamer who doesn’t really care about anything than just playing, the game was most likely very enjoyable to you, and the experience was mainly good. On the other hand, if you’re a competitive gamer who understands the gameplay of Halo, the online experience was most likely rather unpleasant to you. What comes to the general gameplay experience, I’d say it was mediocre, maybe a bit above average, but a flop it wasn’t.
>
> Well I was/am both. First I was playing more competitive and after I get bored I played regular or casual. I don’t want to insult the Halo community, but let’s be honest… Halo 3 players > Hao Reach players. I enjoyed it, to take the road to 50, because you had opponents which were equal to your skill-level. Ofcourse the 1-50 system wasn’t perfect, but it was mostly enjoyable. I don’t like Halo Reach’s multiplayer anymore… It was good for the first year, but then I don’t know what happened then.
That’s the problem, you can’t just first be a competitive gamer and then start playing compeltely casually. Trust me, I have tried. I can try to play for the sake of playing, not caring about how I perform. In fact, that’s easy. But no matter how hard I try, I just can’t stop noticing the problems in the balance and skill of the game. When you know there is a problem somewhere, you can’t just be without noticing it every time. On the other hand, a person who doesn’t know about it or understand it will live happily, never noticing it.
> The game still moves considerable numbers and is deemed a commercial success by Microsoft, guaranteeing the continuation of the Reclaimer trilogy. Due to its further alterations to the Halo formula (whatever that may be), Halo 4 engenders as much or more rancour among hardcore fans as has Reach, leading to their mass exodus from the online servers. In their absence, the remaining players–who are either new to the game, casual gamers, or gamers who simply do not mind the changes–engage in a new era of Halo multiplayer that is dominated by the idea of “fun”. They have a blast; word spreads, and soon other players migrate to the servers, all intent upon enjoying themselves to the utmost. Meanwhile, the departed hardcore have found a new game to play, and within a matter of weeks, they have begun to apply their microscopes of criticism to that game in the very same manner, complaining ad nauseum about the most minute changes. They return to Halo 4 en masse, and the fun once again stops.
>
> Alternatively, here’s a more likely scenario:
>
> The hardcore gamers complain as they always have and yet continue playing the game because, let’s face it, they have nothing else to do.
That’s a very naive view. I fail to understand how I as a hardcore gamer could ruin your fun. I may complain about problems of the game, but unless you are in the same boat with me and notice them, do you really have to care? Nothing in this world is forcing you notice our problems. If you don’t notice them, good for you. You still have to ability to have fun in the game, us it before it vanishes. Don’t care about what we say unless you feel the same way.
When you started playing Halo, you chose the most competitive console shooter. That was most likely an unconcious choice, but I don’t really see what’s the point of complaining about other players having a different way of having fun. Surely, you could just ignore us as the subjects of our complaints really doesn’t have much to do with the ability to enjoy the game.
In the end, your alternative scenario is rather correct. Even with Halo’s decrease in gameplay depth, the game still manages to be the only console shooter on the market that requires substantial amounts of skill to play. That shows how bad the situation actually is for the competitive community. We just can’t jump into another game because they’re even worse than what Halo has become. You just have to learn to ignore us or understand us, but don’t complain about our way of having fun. We have complete right to do it as it’s not really hurting anyone, or more accurately, it shouldn’t hurt anyone.
Their will always be people that don’t like change.the people who don’t like change play the games that they perfer. that’s why people still play halo ce on the pc , that’s why people still play halo 2 on the pc, that’s also why people still play halo 3, and ultimately why people will stay on reach if THEY think halo 4’s a flop.
i dont see why everyone keeps bringing up the fact that 343i is untested. they (sort of) did Anniversary, and besides that; all game developers are untested when they first make a game. that doesnt mean we shouldnt give them a chance. before people start saying “oh, im not gonna get halo 4 b/c _____” i think they should give 343 a chance. im not saying, buy it anyway. im saying, if youre not sure, read a couple reviews first. watch some youtube videos (once the game comes out, of course).
> For those of you claiming that Reach has sold more copies worldwide than Halo 3: I would be happy to concede the point if you supply me with a reference that supports this claim. Thus far, I haven’t seen a single one.
Halo 3 sold 14.5 million copies according to this website.
Reach outsold Halo 3 on day one and in the two weeks after, wrapping up almost6 million copies in 2 weeks.
At that rate, Reach would outsell Halo 3, it seems like a possibility, but there is no known and trust able source.
Recently I have been pretty worried about this issue, but Iv’e changed my mind. I have no doubts that 4 will sell more than Reach.
As for lasting appeal on the multiplayer side of things, it will either be around the same or more. I can’t see it being less.
> That’s a very naive view. I fail to understand how I as a hardcore gamer could ruin your fun. I may complain about problems of the game, but unless you are in the same boat with me and notice them, do you really have to care? Nothing in this world is forcing you notice our problems. If you don’t notice them, good for you. You still have to ability to have fun in the game, us it before it vanishes. Don’t care about what we say unless you feel the same way.
I never said that it was the complaining that detracted from other players’ fun; it’s the way that (some of) the hardcore players play. For them, fun is more of a byproduct than the primary endpoint of the game. Again, I’m not talking about all hardcore players here, and obviously the term “hardcore” can be defined in different ways. In fact, it probably isn’t the correct term in this sense; I should be referring to “competitive” gamers, or perhaps “overly competitive” gamers. To play as an MLG player might play in a game that is filled with players of a similar rank is fine, but to allow that obsessive play-style to bleed into other matches shows an incredible inability to adapt. If you are several ranks above every other player in a game of Big Team Slayer, you might consider forfeiting your claim to the banshee for at least some part of the match.
> Halo 3 sold 14.5 million copies according to this website.
>
> Reach outsold Halo 3 on day one and in the two weeks after, wrapping up almost6 million copies in 2 weeks.
>
> At that rate, Reach would outsell Halo 3, it seems like a possibility, but there is no known and trust able source.
You still haven’t supplied a reference, and have in fact claimed that there isn’t one.
> > > > > > > > > The thought of Halo 4 being a flop hasn’t even entered my mind.
> > > > > > > > > And i simply won’t let it either. lol
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > PeacE
> > > > > > > > > ShadEO9
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The differnce between me and you, is that I’m only scared, because I thought Halo Reach won’t be a flop, but it was. I totally understand you. I don’t want Halo 4 to be a flop, too. But there is always a chance. Let’s hope it won’t be!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo: Reach was not a flop dude. Alot of people still play it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alot? You call 60.000 to 100.000 (weekends up to 25.000) alot? Well as Halo 3 had his best times there were over 600.000 people playing daily (on weekends up to 900.000).
> > > > > > Ofcourse is Halo Reach compared to Halo 3 a flop. Sorry to disappoint you.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are so many thing I want to say right now…, but All I can say is this Know your facts before making up false stuff…
> > > >
> > > > This sir, is a 24 hours counter. I know my fact’s because you can look it up in Halo Reach directly… There are some days with over 250.000 players online in the same second.
> > > >
> > > > Oh and I did a mistake on the weekend thing. It’s not 25.000 it’s 250.000 
> > >
> > > Well in both games release period Halo: Reach has more people. If anything Halo 3 was a flop if your thinking that way. But Also Halo 3 did sell more than Halo: Reach.
> >
> > Wrong! Halo Reach had more selled copies, then Halo 3.
>
> Sigh Some people these days…
Where is your proof that, Halo Reach sold 5 Mio. copies from 2010 to 2012? You are taking Wikipedia as your source?! This site can me modified and udated by every person, but it doesn’t say that all things are up to date…
Besides that, Halo Reach was sold in the first 24 hours 3,2 Mio. times and therefore it can’t be just 5 Mio. copies worldwide. I feel stupid, because there was a article on Major Nelson’s Blog in which he said some record breaking numbers, but I can’t find him…
> > I 90% agree with everything you said, let me just correct you on one statement
> >
> > Halo 3’s campaign was DEFINATELY the more epic. Reach was just depressing.
>
> I would actually choose the campaign of Reach over Halo 3 myself; but if Odst gets in the picture, i think that is hidden glistening diamond of Bungie’s storytelling potential.
>
> I really do suspect that if Halo 4 flops, 343 would be seeing some radical restructuring. They’ve already made bad enough story decisions.
Hmmh I don’t think so. Okay Halo Reach was more depressive, but we knew this would happen, beause, the average, of people playing the campaign, read the books.
Besides that, in Halo Reach Campaign were much more epic moments. For example the UNSC Frigatte destroying the Spire and then be taken out by a Supercarrier(If it’s the right name for that covenant space-ship). In this moment I only thought, what the -Yoink- did just happened there and I felt pure epicness… There are quite more moments, but I think everybody knows them.
Everybody has his opionions and I respect them. If you feel, Halo 3 was the better campaign, then I’m okay with it. 
> If Halo 4 is a flop Halo will most certainly die. Why will it die? Well because since Reach failed it made alot of players such as myself to leave Halo and move to another game and then if Halo 4 is a flop then there will be no hope left for the Halo franchise. Lets face it Halo 4 is a do or die game. And then Halo 5 will come out and there will be alot of less people buying it and the sales will go extremely down which is really bad. So how can we prevent Halo 4 from being a flop? Well heres what you do 343 :
> -Bring the BR Back (Preferably H2 BR with Hitscan and No BR spread)
> -1-50 ranking system
> -Solid Campaign
> -Solid Multiplayer Maps built for competitive play (Guardian, The Pit, Narrows, Sanctuary, Construct, Beaver Creek, Zealot, Countdown, etc) as well as a few big maps for BtB
> -No AAs and Bloom of course (Both of those things ruined Halo)
> -Good Servers and bullet registration (Halo 3 had bad bullet registration)
> -If your going to add something new to the game please make sure that it agrees with the Halo formula and stays as far away from anything like AAs and Bloom as possible.
I agree with your points to let’s say 85,7%, because I don’t like the idea with hitscan at all. I want something realistic and I know Halo plays in future, but that doesn’t mean that bullets are flying with light speed…
> Seeing this thread still makes me sad. The thought of Halo 4 failing is depressing…But it won’t happen!
I just wanted to know what people are doing then. I don’t like the idea, Halo being a flop, either.
> > > Reach was neither a critical nor a commercial flop. It has sold 5 million copies worldwide and currently has a Metacritic score of 91. The petulant braying of so-called competitive gamers, who have been unable to adapt to a few minor mis-steps in the Halo formula (if one chooses to categorise them as such), does not a failure make.
> > >
> > > No Halo game has ever flopped and neither will Halo 4. Even if the game proves to be a colossal disappointment, the Halo name alone will guarantee above average sales figures, particularly among the younger demographic, who aren’t so rigidly entrenched in the quagmire of nostalgia. You may not end up liking the game, but I don’t think anyone needs to worry about the Reclaimer trilogy reaching a premature conclusion.
> >
> > You’re right its just the competitive players blowing smoke that Reach was a flop…Not the ludicrously low number of players for a Halo title…Ratings and sales doesnt equal success. At least not in the terms I believe the OP is referring to. Its longevity and online numbers that equal its success. Reach has been a colossal failure on that front.
>
> As the ones who have the final say on the continuation of the Halo series, the first thing Microsoft will take into account is sales.
sigh…yes i’m aware of that…But the game will sell bc its Halo. Just bc the game sells doesn’t mean its successful to the people who play it. The OP being the person who plays it…
> The life of the Halo franchise is in 343’s hands now. This game will either make or break the trilogy. It will give life or end it.
>
> It really is misunderstood. Halo 4 is not, “Just another Halo game” as i have heard some people call it. 343 has a lot to prove with this game. Reach was considered by Bungie, in their weekly update prior to the games release, to be, “The best damn game they ever made.”
>
> Now as excited as we all were, it really was not. Not only was it not canon with the storyline but it removed competitiveness, had no legendary ending, etc. etc. lets get back to Halo 4 shall we?
>
> But what I am trying to say is that due to the last Halo game, it lost a lot of fans. i mean no game is perfect but this was not as up to par as the other Halos.
>
> This is why 343 has so much to prove. They have to cover a story which is one of the most famous in the gaming industry and take on an audience that has been dealt with great disappointment. 343 hasnt put in the effort that Bungie did for Halo 3 with all of the trailers and information input that was introduced months before the release, which isnt that promising.
>
> But to me, i believe this game will make or break the Halo trilogy. If it brings back competitiveness and has an amazing storyline like the other halos i believe that Halo 4 will not only be a solid buy, but the savior of the franchise. Halo is in 343’s hands now.
>
> We can argue and debate all we want about the turnout of the actual game. But, the only time we can really see how it will turnout is when it’s release day comes and we run through the game ourselves.
This is from a Topic called “Some people don’t realize how important Halo 4 is”, I think it fit’s here in perfectly.
There is a page called VG Chartz. Is says that Halo 3 had 11,47 million copies sold, Halo Reach had 8,82m and even ODST had more than 6 millions. Killzone 3 from Sony had 2,18m and Resistance 3 hardly reached 1 million, and still no one says that those franchises dies (at least not Killzone…). Halo 4 just will not flop.
Even if sales are lower than expected, MS will put money into Halo 5 and 6, because Halo franchise is actually only reason to pay for Xbox Live.
Probably nothing will happen.
Halo 4-6 have already been announced and because it is planned as a trilogy that happens to also be MS’ flagship title a “flop” with H4 would simply mean less sales and nothing more than that.
Well, apart from H5 then probably being an attempt to reclaim lost souls again.
H5 and H6 simply would still happen.
And, to be quite honest, Halo 4 will only be a “flop” if “you guys” keep wanting things you know you won’t get, or keep on exagerating flaws (like the bashing Reach gets, which isn’t nearly as deserved as you guys make it out to be).
Just lower expectations, and come in with an open mind.