What happened to "More open world and expansive"?

Well,
For a while, before halo 5’s launch, We kept hearing that halo 5 was going to be ‘expansive’ and ‘more open world’ But what we got was the same campaign. Just a normal, mission by mission. It wasnt anything revolutionary. I am okay with halo 5’s campaign. It was meh. But we heard so much about ‘bigger and more open world’ and it wasnt really delivered.

If you replaced Halo with Destiny then I would think you bring up a valid problem, but you didn’t. When the hell was there an announcement of a “bigger and better world expansion?” I don’t remember them saying anything about “Open-world-Halo.”

The campaign levels were bigger and more open world imo. Lots of routes.

> 2533274845218535;2:
> If you replaced Halo with Destiny then I would think you bring up a valid problem, but you didn’t. When the hell was there an announcement of a “bigger and better world expansion?” I don’t remember them saying anything about “Open-world-Halo.”

It was led on for a SLIGHTLY less linear, and more massive sized campaign. It was suppose to be something HUGE and INNOVATIVE.

> 2533274915983628;4:
> > 2533274845218535;2:
> > If you replaced Halo with Destiny then I would think you bring up a valid problem, but you didn’t. When the hell was there an announcement of a “bigger and better world expansion?” I don’t remember them saying anything about “Open-world-Halo.”
>
>
> It was led on for a SLIGHTLY less linear, and more massive sized campaign. It was suppose to be something HUGE and INNOVATIVE.

Pretty sure it was.
I mean, what were you expecting? Halos always been about fighting the fight your way, and 5 did just that.

I remember this statement, and it was one of the things that got me excited. They kept saying multiple planets were going to be explored and that the game was built with “exploration” in mind. 343 kept throwing statements around like; “Halo 5 will be the biggest game to date.”, “it will be the most open Campaign”, “It will be less linear than Halo 4.”, And the grand ole’ “it will be twice the length of Halo 4”

Halo 5 is THE most linear Halo to date. Beating out even Halo 4. I’ve discussed this many times but people are bent on saying it’s not linear… The level layout in the game is literally one long “lane” to the finish line. These “routes” break up the pace of the game, sure. In a mechanical sense. The whole Campaign is “mechanical” and “artificial” in nature. Which means everything was built along a path to give your team an advantage all the time. And it looks unnatural in the process.

I dare everyone to go back and play the Campaign again. One example I use is, The Last of Us. In TLoU you can walk into a room and blatantly see cover and crates and other junk set up “artificially” in a manner no human would ever set up there junk as. It’s blatantly obvious that a combat section is going to come up. Halo 5 has that throughout its game.

Halo 5 also lacks basic objectives to break up the pace of the game. Like a true defense area. It also lacks special objectives. IE: secure a crashed pelican to gain reinforcement in CE, Turn on autoturrets in Reach, Control a MAC in Reach, Defend a moving Mammoth in Halo 4, Space missions in Reach and 4… These were gems that Halo 5 substituted with kill Warden a bajillion times…

Older games had organic levels, portions that were sure. Empty. Looked like it was supposed to be populated. But weren’t because they were built like a real environment. Which in turn created an atmosphere of, suspense. Never knowing what’s going to happen next. H5 is just combat section after combat section. Halo 5 has these extra “routes” that 343 keeps using to create “false scale” these extra routes don’t make the level open. Instead it makes it more linear because it’s built into the “lane” itself. When playing with your friends on your third playthrough you say; “okay guys we have three options. We can go there. There. Or there…” And after your fourth, you’ve exhausted all you really options… Older games benefited from having organic levels because every playthrough was dynamic. Not the “artificial setups” in Halo 5.

I don’t know why everyone is disliking this post. If you were truly hyped than you would’ve heard of these things prior to launch, whether you followed key 343 members Twitters, kept up with gaming outlets, or even subscribed to any of the countless Halo news channels at the time on YouTube you would’ve heard about this. What’s wrong with having a more open Halo game anyways? It’s not like they’re trying to create a Density here. Did no one play Halo CE, H2, H3, ODST, Reach? Those had open Campaigns. Levels built organically with exploration in mind, I mean. Halo CE had a freaking island you could explore. ODST was a pseudo open world game. in Halo 5 the maps are so artificial it hurts to look at. I see a ledge a few feet away from where I am. (The level confined, the “lane”) I try to jump over to it, and I’m met with an invisible barrier… And everything outside the “lane” is low Rez or untextured… Unlike older games that still had full detailed environments even if you glitched out.

Sorry for the long post, but if you read this far. Congratulations, feel free to discuss with me. Or argue. I’m a level designer myself, Halo 5 as a whole was built mechanically. Lacking soul and only having levels built just so AI can populate them… But I agree OP. Don’t listen to others that don’t bring up real argument. Instead of complaining about a comparison to Density. They could’ve spent a few minutes on Google. But I agree with you, I hope next game is less linear. But I won’t be picking it up at launch. Not only was the level design gimped, the lore is messed up now too… :confused:

But here’s to DOOM and my future job at ID!!! Crosses fingers Sorry 343. You’re too far away, and you’re following too much into the, “industry standards” and with this community times. I wouldn’t wanna be blamed for something.


TL;DR: Read the first Two and second to last paragraph. Everything in between is just complaints to H5s linearity. The very last one is about me working on getting a job at ID Software and getting ready for DOOM.

> 2533274907200114;5:
> > 2533274915983628;4:
> > > 2533274845218535;2:
> > > If you replaced Halo with Destiny then I would think you bring up a valid problem, but you didn’t. When the hell was there an announcement of a “bigger and better world expansion?” I don’t remember them saying anything about “Open-world-Halo.”
> >
> >
> > It was led on for a SLIGHTLY less linear, and more massive sized campaign. It was suppose to be something HUGE and INNOVATIVE.
>
>
> Pretty sure it was.
> I mean, what were you expecting?

What they said the campaign was gonna be, Instead of a linear corridor shooter.

they made it sound like halo 5 was gonna actually be at least a semi-open world game where you go where you want & let the story unfold based on where you go & what you do. That, & the campaign was supposed to be “at least twice as long as any other Halo campaign”

What we got was a linear corridor shooter that was an improvement over halo 4 (which had pathetically linear level design compared to previous halo games) but still lacked any real exploration.

Considering the movement options we now have, Halo 5 was still very bland & pedestrian(literally, pedestrian) when it comes to the actual levels we’re supposed to “navigate”.

There is almost no actual requirement to use your brain to figure out where to go. It’s just so simplified.

Old halo: massive open worlds where you can complete the objectives in whatever order, many missions you can actually backtrack to where you started and items like ammo, heath etc, will still be there. Levels you can get lost in.

New Halo: linear corridor shooter with little to no exploration where there is only one direction to progress & the door always locks behind you or you drop off a ledge that makes it impossible to backtrack

the sad thing is, most players nowadays (younger people who just don’t know any better & probably haven’t even experienced legit level design in an FPS) actually think the level design is impressive or on par with the earlier halo games.

don’t get me wrong, the FIGHTING spaces in H5 are impressive & the overall level design is an improvement over H4(imo), but the game never really makes you have to use your brain to figure out where to go.

I mean, most of the multiplayer maps are more nuanced & interesting than the play spaces in the campaign & that’s pretty sad.

> 2533275013144329;6:
> I remember this statement, and it was one of the things that got me excited. They kept saying multiple planets were going to be explored and that the game was built with “exploration” in mind. 343 kept throwing statements around like; “Halo 5 will be the biggest game to date.”, “it will be the most open Campaign”, “It will be less linear than Halo 4.”, And the grand ole’ “it will be twice the length of Halo 4”
>
> Halo 5 is THE most linear Halo to date. Beating out even Halo 4. I’ve discussed this many times but people are bent on saying it’s not linear… The level layout in the game is literally one long “lane” to the finish line. These “routes” break up the pace of the game, sure. In a mechanical sense. The whole Campaign is “mechanical” and “artificial” in nature. Which means everything was built along a path to give your team an advantage all the time. And it looks unnatural in the process.
>
> I dare everyone to go back and play the Campaign again. One example I use is, The Last of Us. In TLoU you can walk into a room and blatantly see cover and crates and other junk set up “artificially” in a manner no human would ever set up there junk as. It’s blatantly obvious that a combat section is going to come up. Halo 5 has that throughout its game.
>
> Halo 5 also lacks basic objectives to break up the pace of the game. Like a true defense area. It also lacks special objectives. IE: secure a crashed pelican to gain reinforcement in CE, Turn on autoturrets in Reach, Control a MAC in Reach, Defend a moving Mammoth in Halo 4, Space missions in Reach and 4… These were gems that Halo 5 substituted with kill Warden a bajillion times…
>
> Older games had organic levels, portions that were sure. Empty. Looked like it was supposed to be populated. But weren’t because they were built like a real environment. Which in turn created an atmosphere of, suspense. Never knowing what’s going to happen next. H5 is just combat section after combat section. Halo 5 has these extra “routes” that 343 keeps using to create “false scale” these extra routes don’t make the level open. Instead it makes it more linear because it’s built into the “lane” itself. When playing with your friends on your third playthrough you say; “okay guys we have three options. We can go there. There. Or there…” And after your fourth, you’ve exhausted all you really options… Older games benefited from having organic levels because every playthrough was dynamic. Not the “artificial setups” in Halo 5.
>
> I don’t know why everyone is disliking this post. If you were truly hyped than you would’ve heard of these things prior to launch, whether you followed key 343 members Twitters, kept up with gaming outlets, or even subscribed to any of the countless Halo news channels at the time on YouTube you would’ve heard about this. What’s wrong with having a more open Halo game anyways? It’s not like they’re trying to create a Density here. Did no one play Halo CE, H2, H3, ODST, Reach? Those had open Campaigns. Levels built organically with exploration in mind, I mean. Halo CE had a freaking island you could explore. ODST was a pseudo open world game. in Halo 5 the maps are so artificial it hurts to look at. I see a ledge a few feet away from where I am. (The level confined, the “lane”) I try to jump over to it, and I’m met with an invisible barrier… And everything outside the “lane” is low Rez or untextured… Unlike older games that still had full detailed environments even if you glitched out.
>
> Sorry for the long post, but if you read this far. Congratulations, feel free to discuss with me. Or argue. I’m a level designer myself, Halo 5 as a whole was built mechanically. Lacking soul and only having levels built just so AI can populate them… But I agree OP. Don’t listen to others that don’t bring up real argument. Instead of complaining about a comparison to Density. They could’ve spent a few minutes on Google. But I agree with you, I hope next game is less linear. But I won’t be picking it up at launch. Not only was the level design gimped, the lore is messed up now too… :confused:
>
> But here’s to DOOM and my future job at ID!!! Crosses fingers Sorry 343. You’re too far away, and you’re following too much into the, “industry standards” and with this community times. I wouldn’t wanna be blamed for something.
> ****
> TL;DR: Read the first Two and second to last paragraph. Everything in between is just complaints to H5s linearity. The very last one is about me working on getting a job at ID Software and getting ready for DOOM.

You sir are absolutely right!

Good luck over at ID (:

Yeah, I was expecting more levels like Halo: CE’s “Halo” level near the start of the game where the map really was massive. Seems most of Halo 5’s levels just had some token routes with breakable walls. It was okay, but I was underwhelmed.

> 2533274907200114;5:
> > 2533274915983628;4:
> > > 2533274845218535;2:
> > > If you replaced Halo with Destiny then I would think you bring up a valid problem, but you didn’t. When the hell was there an announcement of a “bigger and better world expansion?” I don’t remember them saying anything about “Open-world-Halo.”
> >
> >
> > It was led on for a SLIGHTLY less linear, and more massive sized campaign. It was suppose to be something HUGE and INNOVATIVE.
>
>
> Pretty sure it was.
> I mean, what were you expecting? Halos always been about fighting the fight your way, and 5 did just that.

I was expecting more than just a route that goes off to the side. or straight ahead. Ill just say that.

I assumed they were talking more about hidden passages and stuff, like with breakable walls and places you could thruster jump too. While those were in the game, they were fairly underwhelming. I’d like to see a lot more of it, though.

And it was. Ever notice how expansive the battlegrounds of campaign are? All the different levels, tunnels, secret pathways, alternate routes, etc.? Compare the locations of the Scarab battle in Halo 3 and the temple grounds firefight (mission 10) in Halo 5. The Scarab battle, while great, was more or less a giant semicircle with a few different levels of cliffs. The ground was totally plain and the back was just a giant cliff. But the H5 battle I mentioned, and most of the other major fights were in huge areas with a variety of scenery and pathways to change up the experience.

I was practicing some jumps on Riptide in custom games and when I looked out one of the “windows” I noticed in the distance there were long transparent hallways stretching out into the ocean that curved around and connected with eachother. Obviously inspired by bioshock.

It made me wonder why we can’t have something like that in a campaign? A maze of long intertwined hallways that intersect and connect to bigger areas with locked doors that you have to figure out how to unlock, a flooded room you have to drain, etc, etc, etc.

Are people really happy with these linear series of corridors that just serve the purpose of connecting combat sequences together?

Now that we’re able to climb and thrust, why aren’t there any sections that actually challenge you to use your spartan abilities in order to navigate the space? Why is there no difficult terrain that requires skilljumps puts you at risk of falling to your death and makes you think "how the hell am I gonna get from here all the way to there?

Freaking Mario 64 had this stuff in like 1996 or whatever. Why not now?

There is no challenge in the actual level design, just repetitive enemy encounters.

Imagine if there was a section where the map was turned sideways like this instead of the same corridors & arenas all the time.

> 2533274926527272;13:
> And it was. Ever notice how expansive the battlegrounds of campaign are? All the different levels, tunnels, secret pathways, alternate routes, etc.? Compare the locations of the Scarab battle in Halo 3 and the temple grounds firefight (mission 10) in Halo 5. The Scarab battle, while great, was more or less a giant semicircle with a few different levels of cliffs. The ground was totally plain and the back was just a giant cliff. But the H5 battle I mentioned, and most of the other major fights were in huge areas with a variety of scenery and pathways to change up the experience.

It’s still just a linear series of corridors connecting between battle sections with slight detours usually leading to a breakable wall & a weapon, or an Intel recording.

The battle spaces are impressive, the level design as a whole is linear.

Compared to older halo games where the entire level was an open space with multiple, often intersecting paths and the game rarely l, if ever blocked you off from somewhere you were before.

Warzone multiplayer is a lot bigger and more “open world” than any other Halo game.

Well, I expected something else, but I won’t let myself be disappointed based on my assumptions. Because that’s like punishing someone because YOU assumed something about them.

I misunderstood what they meant, and therefore, that was that. But the open-worldness is present. Through the larger campaign levels that were more open, and the weapons-down missions.

They didn’t lie.
The maps and campaign are in fact a lot more wide open. This just wasn’t the “gta style” open world that some people wanted.

What are you talking about? Halo 5 IS open and expansive. Were you expecting an MMO or something?

> 2533274883270007;16:
> Warzone multiplayer is a lot bigger and more “open world” than any other Halo game.

No