What even is a "finished game"?

Games Halo Infinite
1

I understand people being disappointed that certain, historically key features aren’t going to be in Infinite at launch. It sucks, particularly campaign co-op. But I think the comment I’ve seen thrown around a lot, that 343 is going to release an “unfinished game” out of greed or ineptitude, is somewhat unfair. We don’t know how much content is going to be in the game at launch, but at the end of the day it has to launch eventually, and content will be added later. Was Halo 2 light on content, considering it had only MP and campaign? Should Bungie have delayed it so they could have actually finished the campaign they’d planned, instead of releasing an unfinished game early with a lazy cliffhanger just to sell us another game a few years later?

I think people also need to be somewhat understanding that Halo infinite isn’t the same as previous games. Forge is an entirely different beast than it was pre 5. When Halo 3 launched forge it didn’t even have a canvas map, you had to pay for two Dlc map packs to get them both. Since then it’s only gotten more complex and feature rich, to the point where personally I’m okay with it taking a little longer. And yes, Halo has had campaign co-op since Halo CE. But Halo infinite is a different sort of game, its open world. How many aaa open world games can you think of that even have co-op in the campaign? How many of those also offer splitscreen? Now how many of those are also cross-play?

Maybe 343 should delay the game, if that’s your opinion then fine. But lots of people want to play the game this holiday, and to me I see plenty of content to justify a purchase for myself. But just because you think the game is “unfinished”, that doesn’t mean everyone feels that way. No game is ever finished, every game leaves aspects on the cutting room floor, in this case because its live service instead of cutting them they’re coming later. It’s part of the reality of game development, and personally, I’m okay with it. Not happy, but okay.

2

I do think its a little early and there isn’t enough info to be saying the game is unfinished. But I really do feel like its an bit of an unfinished Halo game without campaign co-op, a feature that not only has been there since launch, but is what got a lot of people to play it in the first place. I wouldn’t have ever played this game if I didn’t stumble upon it while looking through games at my cousin’s place to play. Still though, just how much is going to be in the game at launch we still don’t know. There could be brand new game modes we don’t even know about.

3

> 2533274855648543;1:
> I understand people being disappointed that certain, historically key features aren’t going to be in Infinite at launch. It sucks, particularly campaign co-op. But I think the comment I’ve seen thrown around a lot, that 343 is going to release an “unfinished game” out of greed or ineptitude, is somewhat unfair. We don’t know how much content is going to be in the game at launch, but at the end of the day it has to launch eventually, and content will be added later. Was Halo 2 light on content, considering it had only MP and campaign? Should Bungie have delayed it so they could have actually finished the campaign they’d planned, instead of releasing an unfinished game early with a lazy cliffhanger just to sell us another game a few years later?
>
> I think people also need to be somewhat understanding that Halo infinite isn’t the same as previous games. Forge is an entirely different beast than it was pre 5. When Halo 3 launched forge it didn’t even have a canvas map, you had to pay for two Dlc map packs to get them both. Since then it’s only gotten more complex and feature rich, to the point where personally I’m okay with it taking a little longer. And yes, Halo has had campaign co-op since Halo CE. But Halo infinite is a different sort of game, its open world. How many aaa open world games can you think of that even have co-op in the campaign? How many of those also offer splitscreen? Now how many of those are also cross-play?
>
> Maybe 343 should delay the game, if that’s your opinion then fine. But lots of people want to play the game this holiday, and to me I see plenty of content to justify a purchase for myself. But just because you think the game is “unfinished”, that doesn’t mean everyone feels that way. No game is ever finished, every game leaves aspects on the cutting room floor, in this case because its live service instead of cutting them they’re coming later. It’s part of the reality of game development, and personally, I’m okay with it. Not happy, but okay.

Very well summarised. I cannot help but agree with most of this.

Here’s the crux for me: if 343 chose to delay, I’d support them. They have decided not to, and I support them. Whether or not the delay/no delay decision is right, well, we’ll see on release.

4

> 2533274855648543;1:
> I understand people being disappointed that certain, historically key features aren’t going to be in Infinite at launch. It sucks, particularly campaign co-op. But I think the comment I’ve seen thrown around a lot, that 343 is going to release an “unfinished game” out of greed or ineptitude, is somewhat unfair. We don’t know how much content is going to be in the game at launch, but at the end of the day it has to launch eventually, and content will be added later. Was Halo 2 light on content, considering it had only MP and campaign? Should Bungie have delayed it so they could have actually finished the campaign they’d planned, instead of releasing an unfinished game early with a lazy cliffhanger just to sell us another game a few years later?
>
> I think people also need to be somewhat understanding that Halo infinite isn’t the same as previous games. Forge is an entirely different beast than it was pre 5. When Halo 3 launched forge it didn’t even have a canvas map, you had to pay for two Dlc map packs to get them both. Since then it’s only gotten more complex and feature rich, to the point where personally I’m okay with it taking a little longer. And yes, Halo has had campaign co-op since Halo CE. But Halo infinite is a different sort of game, its open world. How many aaa open world games can you think of that even have co-op in the campaign? How many of those also offer splitscreen? Now how many of those are also cross-play?
>
> Maybe 343 should delay the game, if that’s your opinion then fine. But lots of people want to play the game this holiday, and to me I see plenty of content to justify a purchase for myself. But just because you think the game is “unfinished”, that doesn’t mean everyone feels that way. No game is ever finished, every game leaves aspects on the cutting room floor, in this case because its live service instead of cutting them they’re coming later. It’s part of the reality of game development, and personally, I’m okay with it. Not happy, but okay.

Funny you should mention Halo 2, a game known to have been very rushed and because of this Bungie was forced to scrap many things they were planning. Should Bungie have delayed it? Heck yeah they should have. That poor dev team was going through hell trying to get it out on time. And no one should have to work under those conditions. Im always left wondering what we could of had, had the game not been rushed. Dataminers have found a warthog run that got scrapped. Would have been nice.

A finished game is usually determined by looking at the previous installments and comparing them. Considering that all previous installments (except halo 5 lack of splitscreen) have it, its safe to say it is a core feature of the franchise (especially considering the backlash they got from not including it in 5.) If open world can’t have coop then why lie to us and tell us it’s possible? Are we going to be told that its not possible 3 months after release?

Im going to remind everyone that a year ago we were receiving enthusiastic assurances that we would have coop at launch:

Unfortunately at this point Im beginning to lose trust in the company again. When 5 was releasing we were first told it would ship with splitscreen, then they backtracked and removed it completely. With infinite again we are reassured it will have splitscreen, then now suddenly backtracking and saying it will be 3 months after release. Makes me wonder if this is a way to try to get fans to buy it, then later when you can no longer return your game for full price, scrap coop entirely.

5

6 years for one game, more than your average game gets production and conceptionally. When I think of a complete game, especially sequel wise, it should run smooth with little bugs, it should also have the same features as its predecessors, else its just inferior content wise when you’re missing stuff the others had.

given how they’ve had 6 years, I’m not one that will overlook that because there are bigger games that have done more. You’ve asked what other open world games have co-op and I can tell you… I can name a ton of them. Dragon age inquisition, all your mmos, ghost recon, state of decay 2, dying light, Minecraft, monster hunter world, divinity original sin, destiny, borderlands, war frame, GTA, I can keep going. Halo isn’t exactly impressive on being an open world with co-op because so many other games have been doing that for decades now. However one has to consider if infinite will even be a true open world game, which we’ll have to wait and see. You can still have some pretty linear open world games believe it or not.

I will admit forge is definitely much more detailed than the originals, it’s arguably one of the better map creators out there because of that, but again, 6 years and we’re also in 2021 where technologically, some things should be easier than it was in the past. I’m aware infinite has gone through various lead directors and that’s where I’d put much of the misdirection at because changing leads equates to changes to the project, different prioritization as well and potentially even cutting things because of creative differences while starting up something else entirely. It’s a downfall for longer projects like infinite and it’s exactly why more time isn’t actually always good. I was in the boat of actually trying infinite out after the tech preview, it looked good, it looked like an actual appealing halo to me when one knows my history of reach to present, however I was also still skeptical because halo 5 did have missing features day one as well and the same people making infinite made that, and low and behold I find out they’re doing it again and that appeal is gone already. If people didn’t partake in couch co-op or LAN parties that combat evolved or halo 2 had, then they just won’t understand the discontent with co-op once again missing in another halo game.

last: you mentioned how halo 2 was “just campaign and co-op” that’s all the halos, don’t know what point you’re getting at with there, the content that gets judged is the stuff associated inside them. How many maps does multiplayer have, how many game modes, how many new features (like forge was first halo 3), that’s what people judge content wise. If you want to look at it like just campaign and multiplayer that’s going to be most games that incorporate both modes into them🤷‍♀️ And even then, there are campaign only games or multiplayer only games, it’s what’s inside them that has the content, there are campaigns and open world sp games that have 100+ hours of content inside them.

6

I don’t think 343 is deliberately trying to upset us lol. As upset as I was when I first heard the news, my plan from the start was to shut myself in my room and play it through 2 or 3 times single player anyway.

7

Used to be, when a game “went gold”, it was a finished product. Then came dlc
Now, we don’t even know what’s in a game, it’s a service.

8

> 2533274808453107;7:
> Used to be, when a game “went gold”, it was a finished product. Then came dlc
> Now, we don’t even know what’s in a game, it’s a service.

Day 1 dlcs were the best👍 (Sarcasm). But yeah, a lot of it is post launch support at this point, but some games are bad about drip feeding stuff that previous games had from the start.

9

My best guess.
They revamped the entire game after the 2019 reveal bombed.
Staten was paid “unknown” to come on board and give the project better direction.
Remember, Staten and a small team were able to branch away from the Halo Reach team and bang out ODST in less than a year…
The Campaign is all they will be focused on up to launch as they enter a crunch.
The Flighting is literally showing us maps as they are polished,
Expect 8 MP maps at launch.
Forge, Theater, Co-Op are all on the back burner.
The only thing seemingly finalized and good to go from what we have seen so far, and inside the flight’s has been the battle pass…

EDIT: Also want to make note of a recent article that said they had been working on a battle royal mode for almost 2 years. If this was the case, they probably saw how the battlefield 5 reveal of their battle royal mode went back in 2018 and immediately changed direction. Fearing the Halo community would be in uproar if such a mode was carried over to this franchise as well…

REACH was a complete game at launch. Just saying. Had everything. Wasn’t patched or updated for 6 months after launch.

10

“finished” is a loaded term thrown around for people to make whatever point they want. When people say that they should wait to release a finished game or that they should release it this holiday because it’s technically finished, they’re just throwing around loaded terms. I have an opinion about the release, but we’ve all said our piece so let’s just have fun now. It’s a game.

11

Any game before 2012 I guess.