What does CSR look for?

Mine is 18 and it’s been there a while. Quite average. Below average, actually. But what increases or decreases the number? Amount of wins? K/D spread? How you play? All of the above?

It’s been stuck at 18 for months and I feel like I’ve been improving … which is weird to say because I’ve been playing Halo for nearly a decade. I guess I’m not sure what it represents. I honestly don’t care that much, it’s more of a curiosity.

It depends on which playlist you are in. I believe that some playlists such as BTB look at your individual score after each game and compares it to the scores of both your team and the opposing team as well to decide whether or not your CSR goes up. Whereas other playlists such as CTF and other objective playlists compare your CSR to the other teams CSR. Thehigher the rank of the people you beat, the more your CRS goes up. But if you lose to people with a lower CSR than you, you are more likely to rank down.

Detailed explanation of CSR

Some playlists, such as Capture the Flag, Team Throwdown, and Ricochet (and Team Slayer when 343i updates it), use team CSR. Team CSR is based strictly on wins and losses regardless of individual points.

Some playlists, such as Rumble Pit, SWAT, and Big Team Battle, use individual CSR. Individual CSR is based strictly on individual score regardless of whether you’re on the winning or losing team (which means you compete against your teammates as much as your compete against your opponents).

As said above, the 4.3 Bulletin has a very detailed breakdown of the system. At a high level, CSR is calculated based on who you beat and who you lose to. K/D and other in-game stats do not affect CSR at all.

In individual playlists, the system treats the scoreboard as one big match. So, if you lose, but place first on your team, you might only rank down a little bit, or in some cases, not at all. For example, in a Rumble Pit or Team Slayer game, if you place higher than more people, (“beat” more people than you “lose” to), you’ll rank up or move closer to the next rank.

In team-based playlists, the system looks at wins vs losses. If you win the match, your CSR will increase or move closer to the next rank, and if you lose the match, your CSR will decrease or move closer to the next rank.

The biggest factor that comes into play in both of the above scenarios is the rank of all of the other players in the game. Similar to systems of old, placing above a player who has a much higher rank than you can cause you to level up quicker, and losing to a player who has a lower rank can cause you to shoot down.

Hope this is helpful!

> As said above, the 4.3 Bulletin has a very detailed breakdown of the system. At a high level, CSR is calculated based on who you beat and who you lose to. K/D and other in-game stats do not affect CSR at all.
>
> In individual playlists, the system treats the scoreboard as one big match. So, if you lose, but place first on your team, you might only rank down a little bit, or in some cases, not at all. For example, in a Rumble Pit or Team Slayer game, if you place higher than more people, (“beat” more people than you “lose” to), you’ll rank up or move closer to the next rank.
>
> In team-based playlists, the system looks at wins vs losses. If you win the match, your CSR will increase or move closer to the next rank, and if you lose the match, your CSR will decrease or move closer to the next rank.
>
> The biggest factor that comes into play in both of the above scenarios is the rank of all of the other players in the game. Similar to systems of old, placing above a player who has a much higher rank than you can cause you to level up quicker, and losing to a player who has a lower rank can cause you to shoot down.
>
> Hope this is helpful!

You forget to mention that if a person would like to level up faster in a team based playlist, they should play alone. The CSR system rewards players for matchmaking alone rather than with a team, completely throwing away the aspect of “team” based playlist. A team of 4 in richochet can win 500 games and still be stuck in the 20’s. While a player who searches alone and plays with clueless individuals and pulls out a win somehow, they’re rewarded with an easy rank up (aka gambling, which isn’t fun whatsoever).

Also, CSR is abused when players who are about to lose quit before the game is over. If they all quit at the last minute or so, they maintain their CSR and the winning team does not level up. Example, I beat a team of 47’s in richochet and I’m a 33, the whole entire enemy team quits and they get DNF’s. This DNF makes sure that the enemy team isn’t punished, while our winning team receives nothing from that entire 12 minute match.

In short, CSR has some problems. I shouldn’t be forced to leave my party and search alone in order to level up my CSR. The point of a “team” based playlist is so I can play and WIN with my TEAM.

> A team of 4 in richochet can win 500 games and still be stuck in the 20’s.

Like Bravo said:

> The biggest factor that comes into play in both of the above scenarios is the rank of all of the other players in the game.

If those 500 wins are against players who have CSRs lower than 20, of course you’re not going to rank up. You can’t get to CSR 30 by winning against CSR 15s. Not getting matched with or against other players of similar CSR is a fault of the matchmaking system, and this fault is amplified by the low population. It has nothing to do with CSR or how it’s calculated.

> Also, CSR is abused when players who are about to lose quit before the game is over. If they all quit at the last minute or so, they maintain their CSR and the winning team does not level up.

Untrue:

> If you leave early once a match has started, it treats it as if you were the lowest rank in the match for the individual-scored playlists and as a loss on the team-scored playlists.

Quit 10 games in a row in any playlist and watch your CSR tank.

> > A team of 4 in richochet can win 500 games and still be stuck in the 20’s.
>
> Like Bravo said:
>
>
> > The biggest factor that comes into play in both of the above scenarios is the rank of all of the other players in the game.
>
> If those 500 wins are against players who have CSRs lower than 20, of course you’re not going to rank up. You can’t get to CSR 30 by winning against CSR 15s. Not getting matched with or against other players of similar CSR is a fault of the matchmaking system, and this fault is amplified by the low population. It has nothing to do with CSR or how it’s calculated.
>
>
>
> > Also, CSR is abused when players who are about to lose quit before the game is over. If they all quit at the last minute or so, they maintain their CSR and the winning team does not level up.
>
> Untrue:
>
>
> > If you leave early once a match has started, it treats it as if you were the lowest rank in the match for the individual-scored playlists and as a loss on the team-scored playlists.
>
> Quit 10 games in a row in any playlist and watch your CSR tank.

https://app.halowaypoint.com/en-us/Halo4/JusT%20so%20Tiny/wargames/match-181fd5b5c23f5b49

33 beating a 35 and no rank up. I probably have 15 wins on this 33 (playing with a party). This game I was in a party of 3, I can assure you that if I was alone I would’ve ranked up. Just a couple days before me and my friend searched in 2’s beating level 10’s and we also had level 10’s. Our ranks moved up after every game. It all depends on whether you win with or without a team.

> Hope this is helpful!

No, it is not . . . not very helpful at all . . .

  • CSR is a faulty system and is especially of no use to anyone who cannot see it in-game.

  • How does it account for the dramatically lop-sided match-ups?

  • What if you’re the kind who actually lets JIP work and you’re screwed into an un-winnable game?

  • How does it account for guests? I’ve seen plenty of “ringer” guests do some serious damage, guests don’t count in CSR but are still a factor so that’s a load of BS in and of it’s self. :confused:

I could go on and on but there are plenty of other threads that cover the overwhelming FACT that CSR is not what it should be.

> You forget to mention that if a person would like to level up faster in a team based playlist, they should play alone. The CSR system rewards players for matchmaking alone rather than with a team, completely throwing away the aspect of “team” based playlist. A team of 4 in richochet can win 500 games and still be stuck in the 20’s. While a player who searches alone and plays with clueless individuals and pulls out a win somehow, they’re rewarded with an easy rank up (aka gambling, which isn’t fun whatsoever).
>
> In short, CSR has some problems. I shouldn’t be forced to leave my party and search alone in order to level up my CSR. The point of a “team” based playlist is so I can play and WIN with my TEAM.

It sounds like your problem is with the matchmaking system rather than the ranking system. If you play with a team, you will all rank up and down together. This will force matchmaking to try and find closer matches than if you are playing as a random. As a result, you may be able to rank up faster as a random because you will be ‘outmatched’ more frequently than if you play with a team.

The system rewards randoms who are able to win consistently w/o the consistency of a team. That being said, it is more likely that you will win several consecutive games with a team than as a random.

CSR doesn’t mean or do anything. There is no legit ranking system in Halo 4.

I disagree that there is no legit ranking in Halo 4. How you place among your playing peers is a very good way to rank a player’s skill and match them with others of similar skill. Look at any pro player and I guarantee they will be a 50 in every playlist they play in regularly.

My guess is that people who bash CSR have low CSR’s or just can’t be pleased easily. It is not a perfect system but no system would be. For example, the player with the most kills in a game will rank up even if they go negative and another player is 2 to 1 K/D. Everyone wants to be judged by the thing they are good at so nothing will ever make all players happy.

In the end, CSR is a good system evidenced by that a team of 50’s would stomp a team of 30’s on almost every encounter.

Nothing against 30’s or anyone for that matter but people should not complain so much. Just enjoy the game and be happy.

Good Luck! :slight_smile:

> I disagree that there is no legit ranking in Halo 4. How you place among your playing peers is a very good way to rank a player’s skill and match them with others of similar skill. Look at any pro player and I guarantee they will be a 50 in every playlist they play in regularly.
>
> My guess is that people who bash CSR have low CSR’s or just can’t be pleased easily. It is not a perfect system but no system would be. For example, the player with the most kills in a game will rank up even if they go negative and another player is 2 to 1 K/D. Everyone wants to be judged by the thing they are good at so nothing will ever make all players happy.
>
> In the end, CSR is a good system evidenced by that a team of 50’s would stomp a team of 30’s on almost every encounter.
>
> Nothing against 30’s or anyone for that matter but people should not complain so much. Just enjoy the game and be happy.
>
> Good Luck! :slight_smile:

Find me a pro that still plays this game. I’m not bashing CSR, I’m stating a fact. And no, pro players do not have a 50 in every playlist they play, because there is no point. You match anyone at anytime regardless of rank. Trust me, I know from experience. If you think the CSR system is so perfect where are all of the players from launch at?

> >
>
> Find me a pro that still plays this game. I’m not bashing CSR, I’m stating a fact. And no, pro players do not have a 50 in every playlist they play, because there is no point. You match anyone at anytime regardless of rank. Trust me, I know from experience. If you think the CSR system is so perfect where are all of the players from launch at?

totally agreed. u will get matched against amateurs, experienced and outstanding good players no matter which CSR u or they have.
this may happens also because of low popultion, but it would happen even then without this problem

I honestly wonder why 343 released the CSR system. Though I’m proud that my current CSR is 41, there’s really no point because you can only check it at Halo Waypoint or other websites dedicated to checking you CSR. Also CSR in my opinion is broken.

> And no, pro players do not have a 50 in every playlist they play, because there is no point. You match anyone at anytime regardless of rank.

CSR does fine at what’s supposed to do: rank players. CSR is a ranking system, not a matchmaking system. If the matchmaking wasn’t screwed up, no one would complain about CSR.

> > And no, pro players do not have a 50 in every playlist they play, because there is no point. You match anyone at anytime regardless of rank.
>
> CSR does fine at what’s supposed to do: rank players. CSR is a ranking system, not a matchmaking system. If the matchmaking wasn’t screwed up, no one would complain about CSR.

Not entirely true, it still has its flaws.

Two players could enter the same game, and both get a KD of 2.
Player A gets 10 kills and 5 deaths.
Player B gets 20 kills and 10 deaths.
Because Player B would’ve had the higher SCORE the game gives you more credit for CSR, while player A could even derank for having a lower score, despite them both doing well on the team with a KD of 2 for that match.

Another scenario:
Player A gets a perfection, 15-0
Player B gets 25 kills and 30 deaths.
Player B gets a higher score due to many more kills (As well as the fact that Perfection is no longer a medal so it doesn’t produce score), so even though player B objectively did worse than player A and I would even go so far as to say Player B hurt the team, player B gets good CSR credit while A doesn’t.

Yet another scenario:
Player A is legimately a 30 CSR. That is what he should be, he’s reached his current potential.
Player B SHOULD be a 50 CSR because Player B is amazing, yet because he hasn’t played enough games, he’s currently at a CSR 10. Player B could also be a “Multi Account”, or somebody who plays on multiple accounts, so he’s still actually at 50, but the game recognizes him as a 10.
Player B outscores Player A during the game.
While Player A objectively lost to a better player, the game thinks that Player A lost to an inferior player and thus Player A takes a derank.
So what we have is the game saying “Well, you’re clearly not worth of being a CSR 30 if you lost against a CSR 50”, which makes no sense at all.

Lastly in individual playlists it promotes entirely selfish play.
We could be playing a game where the smart play yields a lower KD and score, yet is better FOR THE TEAM, while a recklessly aggressive play hurts the team yet earns the player themselves a higher score.
If people are trying to rank their CSR up, which play do you think they’ll take? People have become moronic since CSR was introduced, because 343 has incentivized them to put themselves before the team, which additionally hurts the community as a whole. 343 shouldn’t want people running around and being selfish, that isn’t how good communities are ran.

So yes, even as purely a system of scoring, CSR has many significant flaws in it, and that’s coming from a CSR 50 (50 BTB, 41 Snipers), not some bitter player who can’t move past 20.

> Two players could enter the same game, and both get a KD of 2.
> Player A gets 10 kills and 5 deaths.
> Player B gets 20 kills and 10 deaths.
> Because Player B would’ve had the higher SCORE the game gives you more credit for CSR, while player A could even derank for having a lower score, despite them both doing well on the team with a KD of 2 for that match.

I didn’t say it was perfect or even “great”; I said it was fine. On average, better players will get more kills and thus score higher than lesser players. Thus, better players will tend to be ranked higher than lesser players.

Of course, this type of ranking system encourages every-man-for-himself instead of teamwork, so it should only be used in noncompetitive playlists like Social Slayer and Action Sack. Competitive playlists like Team Slayer and Team Objective should never use individual scoring to begin with.

> Player A is legimately a 30 CSR. That is what he should be, he’s reached his current potential.
> Player B SHOULD be a 50 CSR because Player B is amazing, yet because he hasn’t played enough games, he’s currently at a CSR 10. Player B could also be a “Multi Account”, or somebody who plays on multiple accounts, so he’s still actually at 50, but the game recognizes him as a 10.
> Player B outscores Player A during the game.
> While Player A objectively lost to a better player, the game thinks that Player A lost to an inferior player and thus Player A takes a derank.

How is this different from Halo 3’s ranking system?

You said nobody would complain about it, I gave you a list of what I believe to be valid complaints. Additionally it doesn’t matter if something is the same as H3, if it is flawed then it is flawed. A flaw does not become less of a flaw just because it is the same flaw which existed previously.

KD not a factor!!! That is crazy kd is the most important factor in winning and losing and the best predictor of player skill! Ive had many matches where the top guy on my team had say 20 kills and 23 deaths and I had 15 kills and 5 deaths. The guy with 23 deaths is the reason we lost the game and clearly his CSR should be lowered by that many deaths. CSR is completely bogus if it doesnt factor in kd!

I’m chiming in on this because people don’t seem to understand the different variations and outcomes from the Team CSR playlists. Let’s get one thing understood: Team CSR-playlists DO look somewhat at how the player’s did in a match. Whether it be K/d in Slayer or scores in Ricochet, something affects CSR beyond Win/Loss. I don’t care who you are or what you say, because if you say it doesn’t, then you agree to the flawed premise of winning = ranking down in some situations.

Firstly, the system looks at how many players are on each team when a game is completed. This is the main issue with Team CSR. The game needs to look at who all was in the game AT ANY POINT. Right now the system only registers who was in-game when the game ended. People who DNF’d, their CSR is NOT considered in the TEAM SUM CSR when the game ends. This directly contributes to the fact that you will NEVER rank up when your team outnumbers the enemy team in terms of players.

Second. Guests. They account for nothing. They have no CSR. They have no weight-bearing. They aren’t considered. So if you play a 5v5 with 2 guests on the enemy team, the system sees it as technically a 5v3…which means you will more than likely NOT rank up. Ever. I avoid guests due to this.

Third. The game EXPECTS you to win by a certain margin. Due to the way the system handles quitting, you can be punished for winning games outnumbering the other team. This is why. You can play an intense 4v4 game of Ricochet. No guests. The score is pretty even and your team is going to win 190-140! 10 seconds left in the game, 2 people quit on the other team. Not only does their CSR not get considered OR affected by the quit, your CSR gets hurt. Why? Because the game ends and the system thinks your team barely won in a 4v2 situation, so it overcompensated your team’s “chance” of winning, and thus slightly reduces your CSR rank. At times, this slight decrease will put you a rank back. This is where people complain that they win multiple games in a row and rank down. The game marginalizes and creates a probability that your team will not only win, but by how much. If the enemy team quits and leaves a straggler or two, it hurts you. It’s actually BETTER to stat and attempt to force the remaining players to quit, as you wont be affected in that situation.

Fourth. The game takes into account ONLY the people who finish. I’m reiterating because this is easily abusable. Most people don’t realize it. I just said how winning being outnumbered can hurt your CSR, correct? Well what if it’s the other way around? Yup. If you win games in 1v4, 2v4, etc situations, you are heavily apt to rank up, regardless if the other team has a lower CSR than your teams. Don’t believe me? Play a team game like flag (5v5), and before capping the game-winning flag, have your whole team quit. Win it 1v5, and the system acts like you smashed the other team the whole match. You are guaranteed to rank up tremendously. Since CSR is unaffected by quitters, it’s going to be more prominent and beneficial for teams to do this regularly instead of playing 100+ games and going nowhere when they can alternate quits and everybody get a chance to rank up 3 or more CSR ranks in roughly 10 games.

Hope this makes understanding Team CSR a little easier.