What do you think Bonnie saying 'simple' stories?

Community Halo Universe
1

Months ago, Bonnie said that future games will have ‘simple’ stories. I’m curious, what does she mean by this? I have a few different ideas:

  • Future games will be less convoluted: Halo 5: Guardians went to several locations, jumping all over the place and didn’t really have focus. Maybe by saying simple, she means the game won’t be sloppily written, and be easier to follow. While I don’t see people complaining about many locations and things occurring (Game of Thrones is the biggest show and is like this), but I can see them being more focused and directed with the story. Either way, I’m fine with both ideas.
  • Future games will not be that deep: This option frightens me, as it would be disappointing. If by simple, she could mean “Good guys vs bad guys”, very simple. I hope it’s not like that. Halo 4 introduced the more gray areas explored in other media in the Halo Universe. Would be a shame to be like “Gamers can’t handle complex, deep stories and characters. It’s time to make it black & white again.”
    What do you think?
2

RIP John’s character development.
Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.

3

> 2535442569875751;2:
> RIP John’s character development.
> Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.

It’s really sad that this is probably where it’s headed. I won’t be shocked if there’s a novel of the narrative to tell the deeper story. MS being like: “Hey, make the game’s plot simple. So that you satisfy casuals players. Then a novel of the narrative is deeper and that will get the lore fans to buy the book.”

4

As it stands right now, and considering the backlash against the H5 campaign I feel as if she said that to sooth wounds.

5

She means telling stories that aren’t as convoluted, as you say. She might mean something else, but thats what I got.
I think she’s right to an extent as well. But making them too simple gives us lack of depth, and I think they know that.

6

343i doesn’t have a convoluted story problem, they have a lack of exposition problem. They like to explain away major plot points with vague one sentence dialog and it leaves us with more questions than answers. Why are we fighting the Covenant in Halo 4? Because a lot can happen in four years. Seriously that’s your only explanation? No one aboard the Infinity could take five seconds to say “they’re a splinter cell devoted to the old ways led by Jul 'Mdama, a Sangheili warlord.” Is that so hard? They need to slow things down a bit and explain themselves. They don’t need to dumb the story down, they just need to put more thought into their explanations.

7

> 2535442569875751;2:
> RIP John’s character development.
> Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.

I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.

Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.

So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.

8

How about making a better story instead making simple story just because your storytelling sucks? I don’t think that even solves the problem. Halo 5 was already super simple story.

I hope they bring back elements from halo 4 and add those character development parts to more traditional halo story.

9

It’s an interesting thought, thinking about how this might impact the story going forward. The only thing that comes to my mind when I think of this is something among the lines of what Halo 3 did, being that it for the most part completely disregarded storytelling and exposition to fulfill the primary purpose of taking the player on a power trip. Think about it, there’s a lot of plot holes and unresolved things in Halo 3, but people didn’t care and now they regard it as the best Halo ever. I bet for a lot of lore and story enthusiasts that sounds like a scary thought, but if people want Halo 6 to be the next Halo 3, then this is what they want. They want no story, just pure bad-Yoink-ery. Think about that. Is that what you truly want?

10

> 2535414860309129;7:
> > 2535442569875751;2:
> > RIP John’s character development.
> > Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> > At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.
>
> I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.
>
> Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.
>
> So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.

Saying that they made MC a cry baby is an over the top statement. Halo 4 he was losing a longtime companion, pretty much a family member on the levels as his fellow Spartans. He went from saving the human race and the galaxy to not being able to save someone he loves, he was having a crisis. How he dealt with it still shows how strong the chief is. Instead of wallowing in a pity party, he kept on talking for the sake of the UNSC. His refusal to face his emotions still gave the player a power trip in a way.

Halo 5’s blue team start cutscenes briefly touched on it with the chief touching the helmet slot, his shaking hands while piloting the Pelican and even the other members of blue team debating if he is ok due to the mission tempo. With them being SII carries even more weight given what they have had to endured over the years.

I have played halo since it first came out and I have enjoyed seeing this evolution of the chief…granted halo 5 story was all over and did none of it’s characters justice. I have also found the chief even more relatable in being a service member as the choices he has had to make in whether to stay on mission or face emotion is a very real thing. The MC and the Spartans in general still gives the player that power fantasy if it’s changing through a wall or performing a hyper leathal assasination. I don’t see the issue in letting the player know that encase in that ton of armour is still a human like you.

11

> 2533274943975523;10:
> > 2535414860309129;7:
> > > 2535442569875751;2:
> > > RIP John’s character development.
> > > Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> > > At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.
> >
> > I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.
> >
> > Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.
> >
> > So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.
>
> Saying that they made MC a cry baby is an over the top statement. Halo 4 he was losing a longtime companion, pretty much a family member on the levels as his fellow Spartans. He went from saving the human race and the galaxy to not being able to save someone he loves, he was having a crisis. How he dealt with it still shows how strong the chief is. Instead of wallowing in a pity party, he kept on talking for the sake of the UNSC. His refusal to face his emotions still gave the player a power trip in a way.
>
> Halo 5’s blue team start cutscenes briefly touched on it with the chief touching the helmet slot, his shaking hands while piloting the Pelican and even the other members of blue team debating if he is ok due to the mission tempo. With them being SII carries even more weight given what they have had to endured over the years.
>
> I have played halo since it first came out and I have enjoyed seeing this evolution of the chief…granted halo 5 story was all over and did none of it’s characters justice. I have also found the chief even more relatable in being a service member as the choices he has had to make in whether to stay on mission or face emotion is a very real thing. The MC and the Spartans in general still gives the player that power fantasy if it’s changing through a wall or performing a hyper leathal assasination. I don’t see the issue in letting the player know that encase in that ton of armour is still a human like you.

Yes it’s all very touching and it would make a nice love story but this is a video game. They should have made Halo 4 into a movie and it would have been great. But when you come home from a hard days work, you don’t want to play the twilight saga, you want to play a badass super soldier kicking some alien -Yoink-. Don’t you agree?

Sure chief is powerful, but compare him with Jerome in Halo Wars 2 and he will come out as a lame cry baby. Chief was super cool in Halo 1-3 but 343i ruined his character in Halo 4-5, in my humble opinion of course. They have done a lot of things right though, and I still got my hopes up for Halo 6.

12

> 2535414860309129;7:
> > 2535442569875751;2:
> > RIP John’s character development.
> > Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> > At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.
>
> I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.
>
> Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.
>
> So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.

I disagree. Halo 4 has the time when you are doing badass things and times when you talk with the characters you care about. And, for me it is way easier to connect with a character when he has personality and feelings, instead just a dude that go around and shoots everything in his front.
And that is exactly how Chief is in Halo 5. A guy that feels indifferent to everything and everyone around him and just kicks some -Yoink-.
The kind of argument that the Chief is a blank page the players fills with his imagination sounds like something a YouTuber would say.

13

> 2533274824409174;8:
> How about making a better story instead making simple story just because your storytelling sucks? I don’t think that even solves the problem. Halo 5 was already super simple story.
>
> I hope they bring back elements from halo 4 and add those character development parts to more traditional halo story.

This. Your story doesn’t need to be dumbed down to the player understand. Just make it good cohesive and introduce the depth to the characters than everything will fit together. It seems like 343 is missing the point that why Halo 5 story is bad. Not because it is too complex, but it is because none of the things introduced has a pay off or reason to happen.

14

> 2535405116054664;9:
> It’s an interesting thought, thinking about how this might impact the story going forward. The only thing that comes to my mind when I think of this is something among the lines of what Halo 3 did, being that it for the most part completely disregarded storytelling and exposition to fulfill the primary purpose of taking the player on a power trip. Think about it, there’s a lot of plot holes and unresolved things in Halo 3, but people didn’t care and now they regard it as the best Halo ever. I bet for a lot of lore and story enthusiasts that sounds like a scary thought, but if people want Halo 6 to be the next Halo 3, then this is what they want. They want no story, just pure bad-Yoink-ery. Think about that. Is that what you truly want?

Well,halo 3 Imo had a sense of scale,especially after we were on the ark.While there were plot holes,I was never thrown off of bored because of the really good level design and cutscenes which halo 5 lacked imo

15

> 2533274943975523;10:
> > 2535414860309129;7:
> > > 2535442569875751;2:
> > > RIP John’s character development.
> > > Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> > > At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.
> >
> > I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.
> >
> > Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.
> >
> > So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.
>
> Saying that they made MC a cry baby is an over the top statement. Halo 4 he was losing a longtime companion, pretty much a family member on the levels as his fellow Spartans. He went from saving the human race and the galaxy to not being able to save someone he loves, he was having a crisis. How he dealt with it still shows how strong the chief is. Instead of wallowing in a pity party, he kept on talking for the sake of the UNSC. His refusal to face his emotions still gave the player a power trip in a way.
>
> Halo 5’s blue team start cutscenes briefly touched on it with the chief touching the helmet slot, his shaking hands while piloting the Pelican and even the other members of blue team debating if he is ok due to the mission tempo. With them being SII carries even more weight given what they have had to endured over the years.
>
> I have played halo since it first came out and I have enjoyed seeing this evolution of the chief…granted halo 5 story was all over and did none of it’s characters justice. I have also found the chief even more relatable in being a service member as the choices he has had to make in whether to stay on mission or face emotion is a very real thing. The MC and the Spartans in general still gives the player that power fantasy if it’s changing through a wall or performing a hyper leathal assasination. I don’t see the issue in letting the player know that encase in that ton of armour is still a human like you.

His Hand shaking at the beginning of halo 5 is an optical illusion

16

> 2535414860309129;11:
> > 2533274943975523;10:
> > > 2535414860309129;7:
> > > > 2535442569875751;2:
> > > > RIP John’s character development.
> > > > Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> > > > At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.
> > >
> > > I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.
> > >
> > > Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.
> > >
> > > So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.
> >
> > Saying that they made MC a cry baby is an over the top statement. Halo 4 he was losing a longtime companion, pretty much a family member on the levels as his fellow Spartans. He went from saving the human race and the galaxy to not being able to save someone he loves, he was having a crisis. How he dealt with it still shows how strong the chief is. Instead of wallowing in a pity party, he kept on talking for the sake of the UNSC. His refusal to face his emotions still gave the player a power trip in a way.
> >
> > Halo 5’s blue team start cutscenes briefly touched on it with the chief touching the helmet slot, his shaking hands while piloting the Pelican and even the other members of blue team debating if he is ok due to the mission tempo. With them being SII carries even more weight given what they have had to endured over the years.
> >
> > I have played halo since it first came out and I have enjoyed seeing this evolution of the chief…granted halo 5 story was all over and did none of it’s characters justice. I have also found the chief even more relatable in being a service member as the choices he has had to make in whether to stay on mission or face emotion is a very real thing. The MC and the Spartans in general still gives the player that power fantasy if it’s changing through a wall or performing a hyper leathal assasination. I don’t see the issue in letting the player know that encase in that ton of armour is still a human like you.
>
> Yes it’s all very touching and it would make a nice love story but this is a video game. They should have made Halo 4 into a movie and it would have been great. But when you come home from a hard days work, you don’t want to play the twilight saga, you want to play a badass super soldier kicking some alien -Yoink-. Don’t you agree?
>
> Sure chief is powerful, but compare him with Jerome in Halo Wars 2 and he will come out as a lame cry baby. Chief was super cool in Halo 1-3 but 343i ruined his character in Halo 4-5, in my humble opinion of course. They have done a lot of things right though, and I still got my hopes up for Halo 6.

I fail to see how Halo has turned into the twilight saga, if you missed it, the nature of war means people die. Chief has had friends die since he began Spartan training, losing his best friend on one of his first ops, the fact he had to desensitize himself to the deaths of hundreds of soilders he has seen die during a war for over 30 years and finally Cortana. To act as if that isn’t worth mentioning I think is board line ridiculous.

You still are playing as an incredible super solider taking out an entire battalion before lunch but if in the cutscenes you see that the MC or others have taken these ops because he or they are suffering from a form of PTSD makes him/they even more relatable as everyone experiences stress, more so for those who serve.

Now your comparison of Jerome and John is quite callous. HW2 isn’t a personal or individual story the way the main Halo series does. However it still shows something, example after their first meet with Atriox you could sense a degree of fear from the Spartans as they disengaged. Showing a bit of humanity in a game once written well only serves to boost a game.

17

> 2533274943975523;16:
> > 2535414860309129;11:
> > > 2533274943975523;10:
> > > > 2535414860309129;7:
> > > > > 2535442569875751;2:
> > > > > RIP John’s character development.
> > > > > Also I get the feeling we’ll just get a status quo reset. blah blah humans underpowered, blah blah other super powerful faction. One good one bad.
> > > > > At least we get more humor? Covenant speaking English was well received. Maybe more mechs lol.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t want chief to be this deep character in the Halo games though. If someone wants to know more about his childhood and internal struggles then by all means read the books, but please leave it out of the games. Chief used to be this iconic badass, but lately 343i has turned him into a giant cry baby. The Halo franchise is a dark place and there are people who have suffered far worse than master chief.
> > > >
> > > > Also, in combat evolved we knew literally nothing about this mysterious super soldier, and everyone could easily connect with him. He was basically a blank page that was filled in by the players imagination.
> > > >
> > > > So what I hope that what she means by making it more simple, is that they will return to the roots of Halo.
> > >
> > > Saying that they made MC a cry baby is an over the top statement. Halo 4 he was losing a longtime companion, pretty much a family member on the levels as his fellow Spartans. He went from saving the human race and the galaxy to not being able to save someone he loves, he was having a crisis. How he dealt with it still shows how strong the chief is. Instead of wallowing in a pity party, he kept on talking for the sake of the UNSC. His refusal to face his emotions still gave the player a power trip in a way.
> > >
> > > Halo 5’s blue team start cutscenes briefly touched on it with the chief touching the helmet slot, his shaking hands while piloting the Pelican and even the other members of blue team debating if he is ok due to the mission tempo. With them being SII carries even more weight given what they have had to endured over the years.
> > >
> > > I have played halo since it first came out and I have enjoyed seeing this evolution of the chief…granted halo 5 story was all over and did none of it’s characters justice. I have also found the chief even more relatable in being a service member as the choices he has had to make in whether to stay on mission or face emotion is a very real thing. The MC and the Spartans in general still gives the player that power fantasy if it’s changing through a wall or performing a hyper leathal assasination. I don’t see the issue in letting the player know that encase in that ton of armour is still a human like you.
> >
> > Yes it’s all very touching and it would make a nice love story but this is a video game. They should have made Halo 4 into a movie and it would have been great. But when you come home from a hard days work, you don’t want to play the twilight saga, you want to play a badass super soldier kicking some alien -Yoink-. Don’t you agree?
> >
> > Sure chief is powerful, but compare him with Jerome in Halo Wars 2 and he will come out as a lame cry baby. Chief was super cool in Halo 1-3 but 343i ruined his character in Halo 4-5, in my humble opinion of course. They have done a lot of things right though, and I still got my hopes up for Halo 6.
>
> I fail to see how Halo has turned into the twilight saga, if you missed it, the nature of war means people die. Chief has had friends die since he began Spartan training, losing his best friend on one of his first ops, the fact he had to desensitize himself to the deaths of hundreds of soilders he has seen die during a war for over 30 years and finally Cortana. To act as if that isn’t worth mentioning I think is board line ridiculous.
>
> You still are playing as an incredible super solider taking out an entire battalion before lunch but if in the cutscenes you see that the MC or others have taken these ops because he or they are suffering from a form of PTSD makes him/they even more relatable as everyone experiences stress, more so for those who serve.
>
> Now your comparison of Jerome and John is quite callous. HW2 isn’t a personal or individual story the way the main Halo series does. However it still shows something, example after their first meet with Atriox you could sense a degree of fear from the Spartans as they disengaged. Showing a bit of humanity in a game once written well only serves to boost a game.

You don’t say? Yes you would think that he had hardened up by now, of course it’s going to affect him. I already stated that I was fine with how things were handled in Halo 1-3, and I really liked the fight to get cortana back in Halo 3 (even though the main objective was to get the index key). But now all of the sudden the story is not about winning wars or defeating bad guys, it’s about the relationship between chief and cortana. Sure there are still bad guys, but the main focus in the story is always coming back to chief and cortana. While she was previously a glorified sidekick that assisted you through your missions.

Yes I have also read the articles of army veterans who miss war and all of that. But you have to remember that those men were not trained and indocternated from their early childhood. But this is a topic for another day.

That is precisely my point dude, Jerome is quickly becoming a fan favorite and the story is not even about him in Halo Wars 2. He is cool, he got style and a sense for humor. Jerome also has a very troubled past if you care to read it (you don’t get it all showed down your throut) but he is doing just fine. And if he has troubles then perhaps it would be a great read in a future novel.

I think that I typed a bit too hastely when I wrote “keep it out of the game” because I am not asking for the complete removal of human reactions and feelings, just tone it down a little. I’m sorry about the confusion.

Anyways, you are of course entitled to your own opinion, I just wanted to throw mine in as well.

18

They wanted to replace MasterChief, so they made a whole new story that nobody liked. I think that what she meant is that they’re gonna stick to the original formula: MasterChief saves humanity from Covenant, Flood, or prometheans. Simple and effective :+1:

19

Master Chief as a blank slate so that players can put themselves in his shoes is an old and outdated design decision of video games from the 90’s and early 2000’s.
John is so much more interesting as a nuanced character with feelings, motives and relationships. Like seriously, if we’re going to treat video games as a narrative form on par with books and movies we need to have fully dimensional main characters.
And, well, quite frankly, unless you’re going to read all of the books, 343i has given John far more personality in Halo 4 than Bungie ever did in the first 3 games.

As for “simple” games, I think Bonnie Ross means future Halo games will deal more with emotional narratives rather than political power plays. 343i has shown with 4 that they’re able to create stories that can resonate with us. Tbh, I think Halo 6 is going to be great as long as some Microsoft Director doesn’t come in and start telling 343i what to do (as I’m sure happened with Halo 5).

20

> 2535415966174493;19:
> Master Chief as a blank slate so that players can put themselves in his shoes is an old and outdated design decision of video games from the 90’s and early 2000’s.
> John is so much more interesting as a nuanced character with feelings, motives and relationships. Like seriously, if we’re going to treat video games as a narrative form on par with books and movies we need to have fully dimensional main characters.
> And, well, quite frankly, unless you’re going to read all of the books, 343i has given John far more personality in Halo 4 than Bungie ever did in the first 3 games.
>
> As for “simple” games, I think Bonnie Ross means future Halo games will deal more with emotional narratives rather than political power plays. 343i has shown with 4 that they’re able to create stories that can resonate with us. Tbh, I think Halo 6 is going to be great as long as some Microsoft Director doesn’t come in and start telling 343i what to do (as I’m sure happened with Halo 5).

Sure, I suppose that’s why the new Doom game is regarded as one of, if not the best single player experiences in a first person shooter game, ever.

Well the vast majority disagree with you, hence why they changed the formula in Halo 5. Halo Wars 2 campaign received a lot more love than both of those games, because it actually captured the spirit of Halo. It also looks like a proper Halo game, with some touches from the new games. Which works great in my opinion.