What about Halo Infinite, makes it better than Halo 5?

[OKMB2056]

@Pheinted

You think the sprint mechanic itself makes that much of a difference?

Huge. Sprint is not a mechanic you can just slap into a game and call it good - Call of Duty balance Sprint by making it a tactical decision, because Call of Duty’s TTK is so low. In Halo 4 and Halo Infinite, it is absurdly easy to Sprint away on 4v4 maps and have complete safety to reconnect with your team. It’s a crutch that allows you to escape bad plays way too easily.

Would a significant portion come back? Maybe not, but we’ve got groups of people that each think a different Halo game is the best thing ever, and 343 needs to appeal to one of them instead of attempting to appeal to only all of them, half-way

@Pheinted

No halo is like cod.

You can’t possibly say that with a straight-face when looking at how Halo 4 tried it’s best to make itself as much like Call of Duty as possible. There are perks in Halo 4 that are almost directly ripped in effect from Call of Duty, mechanics like the kill-cam also ripped from Call of Duty. Halo 5 has almost the exact same movement mechanics to a T as the Call of Duty that it released concurrently with.

If you want to see the Call of Duty comparisons for Halo 4 in particularly damaging evidence, go take a look at MarcoStyles’ 343 Industries vs the World. It’s eye-opening as to how much like Call of Duty, Halo 4 was.

@Pheinted

but the fundamental gameplay is SO different between the 2.

Of course it is, but that doesn’t stop 343 from trying to make it more like Call of Duty to try and appeal to Call of Duty fans. A strategy that hasn’t worked for the past decade+

@Pheinted

but how dude?

By innovating in the same vein that Halo 3 did off of Halo 2. Halo 3 added Equipment that fundamentally changed the way that multiplayer played. There are other changes that could be made to a solid-base foundation to make it different or more fun to play. Or, maybe, you don’t need to do that. From Software makes relatively small changes between each Souls game, and Nintendo mostly does balance changes between Smash Bros games. Both sell like hot cakes.

@Pheinted

its riding the coat tail of cod because you can sprint?

My point was that it’s trying to be like Call of Duty by making the game more like Call of Duty. It may not be trying to be Call of Duty, but it has certainly lost of what was unique about it in an attempt to be as close as possible to what is popular.

Sprint is a symptom of the disease. Does Sprint serve a functional purpose in this sandbox? Not really. Because TTK is so long, it offers little trade-off for its usage. It can be supplemented with a higher base movement speed. People have done tests where removing Sprint and increasing jump height on Halo Infinite maps results in a gameplay experience where you never have to put your weapon down and can fight while moving up on the Y Axis.

So why is Sprint even in the game, if not to appeal directly to people who are fans of games that do have it?

@Pheinted

There’s many reasons why old halo was popular

Because it was unique. You could never get the same feel of classic Halo from any other game on the market.

@Pheinted

We can honestly say NO game plays like halo

But we can. For the later games in the franchise, specifically 4, 5 and Infinite, they’ve got a LOT of Call of Duty/other popular shooter in them. 4 especially was the closest the franchise ever came to being just a Call of Duty clone.

And this is the problem, and why Halo’s popularity has massively declined - it abandoned what was unique about itself in favor of chasing trends rather than making them. I don’t need to play Halo anymore when it functionally feels so close to Call of Duty and other shooters on the market. The 60% drop-off in player-count less than a year post Halo 4’s launch isn’t due to changing tastes. It’s because Halo changed, and for what I would call the vast majority of us, far for the worse.

[Pheinted]

Those games still played nothing like cod. Halo 5s movement (the skill jumps and combos added a lot of depth into the mechanics) vastly differs from cod AW if you’re referencing that one. Some similarities? Sure, but we can’t just pretend halo never had the evade in it though right? The games still played different, and there’s more than 1 reason why player count dropped. Halo 5 had a messed up ranking system post launch where players had to remaind ovsr 90% win rate to keep their inflated rank. Legit golds were champs, and their champ rank stamped on waypoint forever seemingly. Who wanta to see themselves go down that much?

Halo 4 had tons of issues, and the perks were really bad. No argument there, but the essential gameplay wasn’t that much different. The bolt shot being a loadout with the instant 1sk was very bad for that game, flinch was terrible, etc. Most of the fundamentals underneath remained in tact tho, but as you’ve said…ODDLY enough…its some of the fans favored halo. Crazy huh? Lol

Sprint is annoying in those 2 halos, and i have no idea why infinite didn’t adopt 5s balancing of sprint right? I don’t get it. In 5 sprinting with shields down not only stopped your shield recharge, but penalized your timer via a very small timer gage above your shield bar. Your shields would take even longer to recharge.

Imo, halo can no longer be innovative at ALL. There is nothing this game can implement without breaking the “omg it’s not halo”. It isn’t cod, and won’t have the same effect of going back to roots if halo did its own "boots on ground " approach of reverting to h3 basically. I just don’t see it happening.

The video you are referencing, off the top of my head…is it the video where its said that 343 basically hired people who hated halo to work on halo? I recall watching that. Definitely hurt the franchise.

My honest opinion is that halo will never pull in the numbers it once did…it tries to do what other franchises do because they have no way of being innovative in a game where everyone immediately says “omg this isn’t halo”. A new peice of equipment won’t change the experience much. Now ive reas here they think a BR mode is coming to halo? Again…borrowing from other games right? Will that make halo great again? At that point…is it still halo?

And sorry for not replying in order. Sprint seems to really only exist because there’s a slide. Remove sprint, then you remove the slides people do, then you get a bunch of cranky gamers. People on 2 different sides of the fence. My personal take…why not just have a playlist called core halo. No sprint, no clamber, bare bones basic halo, it could be ranked or unranked, throw in either classic maps or remixed maps and you end up with quite a bit of happy players.

I appreciate your passion for the game. I hope you remain happy playing halo. I’m not trying to piss on a game someone loves…it may seem that way…but its just so hard for me to see this franchise ever becoming the giant it once was. Its sad each time it just…fails…loses more and more players…and for this game all within year 1…its just sad man. Some very well have perhaps left for reasons you’ve listed out yourself. As you’ve stated which i 100 agree with, different fans like different halos, and with the sprint topic being as big as its always been, I’ve not fully accepted that maybe it does have a big impact. Upping the base speed of the game would be bad though, because players already struggle with strafe speed. Perhaps if slide had to remain, the press of the button used for sprint would just act as a slide, because as it is you can already immediately slide after 1 step Anyway.

[Kashyy]

@OKMB2056

Enough were that the industry moved away from it almost entirely. I can’t remember the last time an FPS game that was notable came out with more movement capabilities than the basic Call of Duty skillset.

Doom Eternal was the latest game to come out with advanced movement. And I heard no complaints with that one. The problem was never the game itself; the problem was the fan base that don’t know what they want in a video game.

[Trand0]

@OKMB2056

The industry moved on, likely for the better. I’d still remove Sprint, Slide and Clamber in a heartbeat from Halo Infinite and make increase respective stats to compensate - the game would undoubtedly play better as a result.

I feel like these could already be easily disabled and it would feel pretty great.

You can disable autoclamber and the game does improve.

[total_war1402]

@The_MetaChief

I’ll take quality over quantity any day. H5 had a terribly boring sandbox full of high damage dealing weapons.

The only thing 5 has over Infinite is the lack of an SMG or LMG. That’s it. Infinite has a variety of utility based weaponry rather than just straight damage dealers like H5.

The only exceptions being the Hydra & Railgun in H5 and even then the Hydra was OP. Not to mention, vehicles were irrelevant outside of OP variants in Warzone.

5’s sandbox sucked.

It’s not quality.

You basically have a one, maybe two gun game and people still complain about that second gun being in the game. All people do is use the assault rifle and BR.

Part of the game is selling the experience of this epic space opera and a big part of that is having a “diverse” weapon pool. I don’t think each faction having an assault rifle is too much.

It would be like in 40k if you said all the base weapons should be replaced with bolters because they basically fulfill the exact same mechanical function regardless of if it’s a lasgun, shuriken catapult, pulse rifle, shoota, autogun, fleshbourer. When in fact, it really does matter and makes the world a more lived in place. It’s part of the storytelling.

The way people talk about this is like they made ten versions of the light rifle, ten assault rifle, ten DMR etc etc. Again, they put the BR, DMR, Carbine and Light Rifle in the game because:

1. Precedent. People want guns that are in since Halo 2 in some cases and from their fav game in Reaches case.

2. World building. It just makes sense that the Forerunners would have a marksman rifle. There should be a few million light rifles on Zeta Halo since it’s supposed to be where Cortanas army was defeated.

3. Campaign sandbox. You want to have the game option to fight a certain way but you are on the Didacts ship and there’s no reason those guns should be there. Oh, here is a gun that lets you play the game you want and it fits with the Lore.

4. I’ll remind you that Bungie did this with the Covenant Carbine and numerous other guns.

[BurningWidow]

@Easy_XP5747

You read these posts but do you actually understand the points. Its all opinion based even the topic asks for your opinion. This doesn’t mean to embellish your opinion to suit your argument. My opinion was honest I cut the armor count by more then half for H5 where you outright said

This isn’t a matter of opinion. Take all 526 pieces of armor in Halo 5 and all of Mark V’s 194 pieces in Infinite and compare the total customization options you have for both.

Halo 5’s total combination is ~3,375,036.
Infinite’s total combination for Mark V is ~243,702,950,400
Infinite’s total combination for Eaglestrike is ~194,400,000
Infinite’s total combination for Mark VII is ~21,163,161,600,000
Infinites total combinations for Yoroi is ~26,542,080
Infinites total combinations for Rakshasa is ~142,263,475,200
(and still growing week to week)

You take 100% of what each game offers and 5 underperforms each and every time. This is without a doubt because you can only edit 3 armor slots in 5 while Infinite lets you edit 12 slots. Your opinion on what armor should count or not is irrelevant. I’m talking facts, not this skewed view nonsense you’re all about.

@Easy_XP5747

Out of 229! You imply that 6 is your honest opinion. No.

To me all the torsos in 5 look identical. Doesn’t matter. You’re the one who started this whole “certain armors should not count” thing. I don’t care. I could think all 526 pieces of armor look unique and Halo 5 would still be nowhere close to the customization options offered by the weakest core in Infinite. Like I already said, this is an irrelevant point.

[The_MetaChief]

@total_war1402

You basically have a one, maybe two gun game and people still complain about that second gun being in the game. All people do is use the assault rifle and BR.

Yes because the bulldog, commando, shock rifle, heatwave, stalker rifle, sidekick and mangler all suck and don’t get used at any level of play - right?

lol.

You guys are funny.

[total_war1402]

@The_MetaChief

Yes because the bulldog, commando, shock rifle, heatwave, stalker rifle, sidekick and mangler all suck and don’t get used at any level of play - right?

lol.

You guys are funny.

Not really. Battle rifle is better than the sidekick, stalker rifle and commando.

Assault rifle is just better and easier to use than the bulldog, heat wave and mangler.

Either AR/BR can make a mess of the other weapons as well.

They aren’t used. People are leaving weapons on the rack and you really would be taking a power debuf if you swapped either of those guns out.

So you think it’s good story and world building that the Banished and Endless use human guns? This faction more dangerous than the flood who are so terrifying they have to steal our weapons. Or sentinels that magically have Banished weapons installed in them? That’s what happens when you only have ten weapons in the game and three (4) different factions who shouldn’t be using the same technology.

[The_MetaChief]

@total_war1402

Not really. Battle rifle is better than the sidekick, stalker rifle and commando.

Depends on the scenario.

@total_war1402

Assault rifle is just better and easier to use than the bulldog, heat wave and mangler.

It’s more versatile. It’s not better in the scenario you’re supposed to use it in. It’s not rocket science.

@total_war1402

They aren’t used. People are leaving weapons on the rack and you really would be taking a power debuf if you swapped either of those guns out.

Genuinely sounds like you’re just bad or don’t understand the weapons at hand. The bulldog is a better control weapon, and easily beats the AR if you use it right. Same with heatwave or Anything else I listed…

@total_war1402

So you think it’s good story and world building that the Banished and Endless use human guns? This faction more dangerous than the flood who are so terrifying they have to steal our weapons. Or sentinels that magically have Banished weapons installed in them? That’s what happens when you only have ten weapons in the game and three (4) different factions who shouldn’t be using the same technology.

I will agree that that part alone is a shame, but it’s NOT a strength of Halo 5. The Prometheans and covenant are awful and annoying to fight.

Same with 4. It’s world building but that doesn’t make the weapons good or useful for the sandbox beyond world building.

Do I wish Infinite had more weapons? Yes. But not like 4/5. Never like that garbage.

[total_war1402]

@The_MetaChief

I will agree that that part alone is a shame, but it’s NOT a strength of Halo 5. The Prometheans and covenant are awful and annoying to fight.

Same with 4. It’s world building but that doesn’t make the weapons good or useful for the sandbox beyond world building.

Do I wish Infinite had more weapons? Yes. But not like 4/5. Never like that garbage.

So you were annoyed at the idea of fighting the Covenant but a red reskin makes them palatable to you?

It’s a strength because it’s absurd that Halo Infinite didn’t even have enough guns for the paltry enemy types it brought into the campaign. Almost all of which were just lifted from other games and should have required minimal effort to port over.

The weapons aren’t better in certain scenarios. The Heatwave doesn’t handle as well. Does less damage and you have less control over it. Why put the player at a disadvantage when the Assault and Battle rifles are lasers? Same with the commando. They didn’t want it to compete with the BR so they made it junk. They didn’t want the pulse Carbine to compete with the assault rifle so they made it junk.

A commando is maybe a modest boost on your assault rifle. But even then it’s probably easier just to point and click with your laser assault rifle. In Halo 5 you could still use the shotgun because it was a one hit kill up close and with the beat down. Plus the AR and BR were nowhere near as good. So there was better weapon balance.

Also, A faction is better than no faction. It’s not reasonable that in six years the best they could do was a trimmed down reskin of the Covenant, a sentinel model and the skimmer. Halo 5 was not in development for as long and it just got more out the door. You have the Banished and that’s it. Never mind that all the design work was already done by Bungie so it should have required zero effort. Like they only bothered to reskin a few units with Banished colours.

[The_MetaChief]

@total_war1402

So you were annoyed at the idea of fighting the Covenant but a red reskin makes them palatable to you?

Never said I was annoyed. I also don’t consider the Banished to be the covenant or a reskin, given the significant upgrades/changes to AI behaviour. Especially the Brutes and Grunts. They were my favourite.

@total_war1402

It’s a strength because it’s absurd that Halo Infinite didn’t even have enough guns for the paltry enemy types it brought into the campaign. Almost all of which were just lifted from other games and should have required minimal effort to port over.

Quality over quantity. Halo Infinite has it’s flaws but I’d have it’s unique selection over Halo 5s forgettable shlock any day.

Also, not paltry at all. The enemies in Infinite were very fun to fight by comparison to H4/5 having the worst PvE experience. Again quality over quantity.

@total_war1402

The weapons aren’t better in certain scenarios.

So that’s why even the pros pick them up? You’re bad we get it.

[total_war1402]

Destiny 2 has at least four full factions. Bungie managed to have the Flood as well as the Covenant. Didn’t take them six years to do either of those. It’s not acceptable that Infinite is in the state that it’s in.

What AI? A hunter is a hunter and a grunt is a grunt. This is nothing new. No difference fighting a hunter in Halo 5 to Halo Infinite. Almost as if it’s the same engine. They can’t even spawn in vehicles and hunters properly into the game. I barely see a difference in the AI from Halo CE TBH.

I prefer villains that are actually a threat and amount to something. Consequences and drama and al that stuff. The Didact says he wants revenge on humanity and he attacks Earth with the Death Star. Cortana says she’s going to conquer the Galaxy and she actually does that.

The Banished tell you they are going to repair this ring….they literally bungle that for every mission and the Chief effortlessly massacres them.

The Harbinger says she’ll free the Endless….which means something we may get to learn if Joe doesn’t just do his own thing.

It’s concerning that the best thing about the game is the cliff notes of the game you didn’t make.

The game clearly was not finished and had a ton of content cut to get it out the door. There isn’t some quick DLC that will follow this up. Why should I give a dam about killing another worthless Brute when the Chief has killed thousands of these animals. At least make it the one you might want revenge on instead of this other guy. He’s literally a footnote in the Chiefs story.

What specifically did you dislike about Halo 5 enemy types?

[NEANT8751]

There were two things that bothered me from h5 campaing:

• the shot in the back mechanics
• and it doesnt realy follow h4 (where are you didact?)

There are two things that bothered me from infinit:

• open world (not my thing)
• it just jumped from h5 to h7 (where are the epic battles agaist the guardians)

I still have fun with both but campaing wise i dont feel like there is a big difference in quality.

In multiplayer im very casual so no coment.

[total_war1402]

@NEANT8751

There were two things that bothered me from h5 campaing:

• and it doesnt realy follow h4 (where are you didact?)

But it does follow on from Halo 4. Chief promised to save Cortana from Rampancy and tries to make things right. Mistakes are made. The Didacts army and the Reclamation is taken over by Cortana who has went fully rampant. Indeed there’s cut Halo 4 dialogue in the files which really makes it obvious they were going in this direction. Like they discuss how Cortana can take over the Didacts technology.

It does directly follow on from Halo 4 and given that Chief/Cortana was a central component of the story it’s not really upending the table like Infinite did. Infinite was 343 trying to tell a totally unrelated story about Chief exterminating a Xenos Warband trying to release a floating squid.

The issue is that they decided to simplify what was meant to be a transition from the threat of Jul and the Didact to the threat posed by Cortana. Alternatively that they would remain the actual villains whereas Cortana is just essentially Elsa. An admittedly massive problem but not the villain in the true sense of the word.

But they clearly felt they could not do that in a five hour game and too much was happening already. So they put the Warden Eternal in instead and kill Jul early in the game. Which was a mistake and the Warden is really not a good character to sell the Created Conflict to you.

Halo Infinite has the same issue in that they, from the concept art and comments they made on Chiefs armour, that they intended to a game that quickly transitioned from the threat of the Created to the Endless/Banished.

Instead they decided that was too convoluted and they should just use flashbacks and that it would be better to frame this all as part of the mystery. That way they could get to the really exciting and riveting fight with Escharum. That generic Brute Chieftain who is sooo much more dangerous than the Flood….

[CapableClover39]

@The_MetaChief

I’ll take quality over quantity any day. H5 had a terribly boring sandbox full of high damage dealing weapons.

The only thing 5 has over Infinite is the lack of an SMG or LMG. That’s it. Infinite has a variety of utility based weaponry rather than just straight damage dealers like H5.

The only exceptions being the Hydra & Railgun in H5 and even then the Hydra was OP. Not to mention, vehicles were irrelevant outside of OP variants in Warzone.

5’s sandbox sucked.

Aye, while H5 contains one the largest sandbox in Halo’s franchise, many of the weapons utility or playstyle were similar. The Prometheans weapons and human weapons by far the biggest example when juxtaposed. The Suppressor is essentially an AR with tracking, the scattershot is a faster ROF shotgun, the Light Rifle is basically a DMR etc. While some weapons like the scattershot did have unique traits (bouncing projectiles) they were far too obsolete to pose a different style of gameplay. In contrast 343 tried to mitigate this by making weapons unique traits viable, the heatwave’s bouncing projectiles is far more feasible compared to the scattershot.

However, I don’t want to discredit 5’s Sandbox and say that it sucks. Despite the weapons being lethal killing machines, I enjoyed how most weapons I find can be depend on and viable, something I can’t say for previous installments. In regard to the weapon variants, H5’s abundance of weapon varieties sparked some pretty creative and chaotic moments in the custom browser, Fiesta, and Warzone, and Warzone firefight.

I still prefer HI sandbox, it’s more rounded out, less redundant and unique. Yet a part of me still misses H5 quantity of chaotic weapons.

[eLantern]

The speed in which you can fire your weapon out of sprint (amongst the full sandbox) feels better gameplay-wise in Halo Infinite.

FOV adjustments.

Custom control remapping.

The numerous control settings.

A developer supported PvP BTB mode at release.

Spartan ID not mandated to be 4 characters.

F2P multiplayer.

120fps gameplay.

Crossplay deepening the player pool and attempting to keep the advantages of KB&M players in check (aka no aim assistance).

Allowing character customization to select and mismatch unique shoulder, knee, wrist, and hand pieces as well as several component accessories; though, I’m not a fan of the VFX effects or truly strange armor stuff.

I imagine Infinite’s Forge will be even better than its predecessor.

Some different takes or adjustments on past modes that have been… interesting. Not necessarily “better”, but appreciated in ways.

These are honestly the only things that stand out to me as more or less “better” in Infinite than Halo 5; at least, right now. Halo 5 wasn’t perfect or ideal, but I still prefer it in most ways to Infinite even though they’ve removed most of its social modes from its arena multiplayer.

[OKMB2056]

DOOM Eternal was released as a predominantly single-player game, and there were some complaints about its gameplay relative to 2016. Not a ton, but some.

DOOM Eternal’s implementation is also for the benefit of game design - did you ever notice that aside from melee attacks every enemy in Eternal (and 2016) shoots slowish moving projectiles and explosives? You can dodge every single attack in Eternal, unlike in Halo 5 where most weapons fired extremely fast moving projectiles and/or tracked you.

DOOM Eternal does not help your case - one is a primarily single-player based experience that is intentionally designed around its movement mechanics, whereas the other is a competitive multiplayer shooter that feels like a mish-mash of ill-fitting mechanics for this sandbox.

[RINZL3R_IADI]

Spartan companies… oh wait… yeah, nevermind…

[Pheinted]

@CapableClover39

the Light Rifle is basically a DMR

It irks me that you don’t mention the biggest difference between the 2 of these is that the LR when zoomed in has it’s damage increased, and becomes a 3SK weapon. Come on man! Its not basically the dmr! How can you have played 5 and not remembered this?

[JB_Linken]

Just wanted to reply and say it’s nice to see an OG friendly face still around!