Using those stats doesn’t work, can’t account for any variables. Could go more into it, but I’ve had to repeatedly do that on other threads where people don’t understand how statistics work and why you can’t use random data.
That aside, agree with your first point. Second is straight wrong, bullet magnetism is the same regardless of input (there’s videos of it and you can go test it yourself, I’ll link if needed.)
It’s very easy actually. Engagement distance and experience. You’re fighting more close ranged on a controller, for the most part, as you don’t have it ingrained in you to harass people at a distance and essentially kill your own accuracy metrics. And, by and large, the people playing on a controller are either new or the super veterans that have been on controller on Halo for years upon years. Shooter experience doesn’t translate to Halo experience, so even if someone is very skilled at other shooters, they can’t jump into Infinite and immediately be a god, but someone who has years into Halo can.
Not even counting reasons why it makes sense, you can’t try and use accuracy stats. There’s no metrics to account for variables, and if you wanted to try and get stats that do account for it, you’d have to measure it yourself with your own sample size, which is more than likely not happening as you’d need tens of thousands to make fairly decent data.
Reducing the strafing speed would only make it easier for others to track you. Never had strafing made it harder for me to aim on MnK
To can’t change AA on controller IMO without hurting the casual community wich is the majority. The best solution in my opinion is to give MnK players there own ladder besides duo/solo. So they can actually play in 4 stacks against there own input. TBH that basically what crossplay is Onyx+, 98% of them are controller players in full teams.
These stats were pulled from ranked, meaning the games were played on 4v4 maps. The kind of ranges you’re talking about hardly exist, with the exception of Behemoth.
And, by and large, the people playing on a controller are either new or the super veterans that have been on controller on Halo for years upon years.
Where you getting that info from?
Shooter experience doesn’t translate to Halo experience, so even if someone is very skilled at other shooters, they can’t jump into Infinite and immediately be a god, but someone who has years into Halo can.
While Halo plays different strategically to other shooters, the skill of raw aim is very translatable. If you can aim well in any game with a long ttk, you will have at least decent aim in Halo.
No, Ranked maps have tons of those distances. If you ever jump into quickplay you can easily see the shots going across the map, and seeing as how it’s Ranked, where you have BR starts, it happens even more than just cross map Sidekick or AR pot shots. Doesn’t matter if it is a BR in that scenario, it’s still outside what you want for purely reliable fighting, and people will take those shots even if they’re no longer guaranteed hits.
For the second, that’s not info to get, that’s just the state of it. Almost all of the horribly bad people (new to shooters) that I’ve had on my teams or faced against were on an Xbox, meaning that it’s 99%+ controller users. But, going beyond that, for the veteran thing, that’s just what you do. If you played the Halo games on your Xbox then you’re 9 times out of 10, maybe more than that, going to be using a controller even if you’re on a PC, and if you’re still on an Xbox then I would say it’s more like 999 times out 1000 that they’ll be using a controller instead of M&K (don’t even remember if M&K is supported on console Infinite.)
And no, you’re off for that last one. Raw aim is for raw input (lack of a handling system, ala CSGO,) and even if you’re looking at overall aim for accurately lining up shots, you still have to factor in tracking. So, yes, while someone who has played a ton of whatever random shooter you want to name off, say like R6Siege or even Fortnite, would have a fairly good aim for snapping to someone and then shooting, there is not really all too many games in which mid to close range fights are all continual tracks while shooting and strafing.
Good way to look at it is M&K guy and controller guy who both have roughly the same amount of experience/hours in shooters won’t have the same performance as they have slightly differing playstyles for how they start fights, and at what range, and the controller crowd is far more populated with veterans of the franchise that have both the experience and the muscle memory from years.
No one should be advocating for ‘nerfing’ aim assist. The whole point is to create the largest player base possible, and a competitive ranked system for both controller and KBM players to participate in together.
Tweaking BR assist (a catchall term for everything included in aim assist) for ranked seems like a reasonable adjustment in the way MMO devs nerf or bump class ability stats in a balancing act based on data.
People in this thread run around acknowledging how this is a live service game and then shout that we can’t touch balancing features like AA. Doesn’t make sense. Similarly, we’re shouting that it’s impossible to truly balance controller and KBM, which is difficult, but not more so than reinventing a 20 year old console FPS on current gen while also advancing FPS as a genre. If there’s an imbalance you fix it. It’s called proper live ops and gameplay design. None of this is impossible.
I disagree. Crossplay pretty much ruined the integrity of fps gaming in general.
Nobody was complaining about aim assist until devs started introducing this stupid feature.
Why should it be tweaked at all? It’s not even overpowered.
Controller and mice are two different types of inputs. They’re not going to be balanced. They don’t even work the same and yet you are treating it like it’s a common balancing issue.
If it was that simple, this problem would’ve been solved ages ago. The fact of the matter is this game was built with Xbox in mind. They’re not going to nerf aim assist or turn it off to the detriment of their larger fanbase.
Simply turn off crossplay and call it a day.
I recommend going into the settings and forcing minimum 60 and maximum unlimited. The graphics quality will fluctuate a lot but it will stay between 60-90 for me. Since I disabled vsync, I get screen tearing, but it doesn’t really bother me compared to getting horrible framerates.
In fact it is super easy to balance kb / mouse vs controller
The only thing you have to do is set the “Power” of the aim-assist to the values of kb / mouse
You take as a base the top 1000 players of kb / mouse 45% accuracy and then you take as a base the 1000 players of controller 55% accuracy. “Then you reduce the power of the aim-assist 10%.” With this both “inputs” will have the same accuracy. The game will be balanced, both methods will be viable and you can play on the one you “prefer”
MnK player here. Reached Onyx in both Open and Solo/Duo MnK Queues.
The only thing I think is necessary is MnK should get a decent, call it 20%, buff to its bullet magnetism.
I don’t want a nerf to controller aim assist or anything of the sort.
But a 20% bullet magnetism buff to MnK would bring the inputs much closer to parity with each other IMHO.
You’re fighting more close ranged on a controller, for the most part, as you don’t have it ingrained in you to harass people at a distance and essentially kill your own accuracy metrics.
Doesn’t matter if it is a BR in that scenario, it’s still outside what you want for purely reliable fighting, and people will take those shots even if they’re no longer guaranteed hits.
You’re either changing your argument as you go, or you’re stuck in between two opposing thoughts. Whatever the case though, your point is extremely unclear and therefore not very convincing.
For the second, that’s not info to get, that’s just the state of it. Almost all of the horribly bad people (new to shooters) that I’ve had on my teams or faced against were on an Xbox, meaning that it’s 99%+ controller users. But, going beyond that, for the veteran thing, that’s just what you do. If you played the Halo games on your Xbox then you’re 9 times out of 10, maybe more than that, going to be using a controller even if you’re on a PC, and if you’re still on an Xbox then I would say it’s more like 999 times out 1000 that they’ll be using a controller instead of M&K (don’t even remember if M&K is supported on console Infinite.)
So this is conjecture, got it.
And no, you’re off for that last one. Raw aim is for raw input (lack of a handling system, ala CSGO,) and even if you’re looking at overall aim for accurately lining up shots, you still have to factor in tracking. So, yes, while someone who has played a ton of whatever random shooter you want to name off, say like R6Siege or even Fortnite, would have a fairly good aim for snapping to someone and then shooting, there is not really all too many games in which mid to close range fights are all continual tracks while shooting and strafing.
I’m talking about the skill of aiming itself, regardless of whether raw input or not. To avoid a semantic discussion, I’ll rephrase it to “general aiming ability”. In any case, it’s all very translatable.
Your examples of r6 and fortnite indicates you didnt read or understand my comment. I said players who have played high ttk games would have their skills well translated. Quake, Apex, Overwatch, and so on. These are games which all exist on PC, with high ttk and therefore tracking.
The point wasn’t changing. For the most part you’re fighting at closer ranges which equals higher accuracy, and for the longer ranges thing with the BR this is because you brought up the Ranked playlist which starts with BRs and features pretty much the entirety of quickplay but changes to BR starts instead of ARs. I was mentioning that if you play those maps, you can see that people are more than capable of fighting at a distance with pickup weapons, so a game mode where everyone starts with a BR not equaling ranged fighting is just plain wrong. Before you try to say something about it now supposedly being long range so accuracy shouldn’t be higher, no. A few shots at distance with a weapon that has pretty much the only strong bullet magnetism in the game versus majority being close to lower mid range is a terrible thing to try and use.
No, it’s not conjecture. You’re asking for a source, or stats rather, that physically doesn’t exist as it isn’t tracked. Doesn’t make it false that what I said there was true. For consoles almost everyone is going to use a controller, and from what I’ve seen postgame it matches up with that. It also doesn’t make it not true that if you’ve played a game you’ll largely stick to what you’re familiar at playing with, and it certainly doesn’t make it not true that you’ll be better at an input you’ve played on before versus one you haven’t (or haven’t as much.)
I knew what you were talking about, but the point still stands. You can line up a shot in x you’ll be able to do so fairly well (not 1:1) in y, but that’s where it ends with the game basis of the trend being fast TTK for games and not requiring much tracking.
And, yeah, I got what you were saying, but that wasn’t what I was saying. R6Siege and Fortnite were two random examples where there’s not much tracking. Sure, there’s more tracking in Fortnite, but the state of that disaster is shoot and then build a skyscraper to shoot again and then rinse+repeat. Quake and Overwatch don’t really work as Quake has far more in the realm of movement to give you an advantage, more common aoe weapons, and really not all that high TTK unless it’s purely a lower damage gun fight at more of a range. Overwatch is a mixed bag as yes it is much higher TTK, but it doesn’t really take much in the way of tracking. Characters are slow, and the only cases where they’re moving faster is either with abilities or a large jump, but it really isn’t too terribly hard to hit people barring maybe a really evasive Pharah at farther ranges. It’s still largely a “acquire target and burst damage them until they hide or get support” kind of game.
Apex kind of works, but the tracking is no problem at a distance unless you were only fighting a really good Octane or Pathfinder (zipline,) and it’s really only negligible up close. Much more about your own movement getting to a spot or running after someone when they’re weak to finish, whereas in Halo it’s almost always far more close range with constant movement in varying directions. Still say they should add momentum movement back so strafing isn’t so hard to track though.
Then you must have spidey senses, because it feels like I have to predict the strafe because of how fast and sudden it feels. Mouse aiming on H3 MCC feels way more natural.
Ngl dude the first paragraph is barely comprehensible.
Without getting caught in the weeds too much, I’m not gonna debate with you that aiming with raw input is similar enough to aiming without raw input. It’s basically the same across games, and empirical evidence suggests this to be the case.
Overwatch is a mixed bag as yes it is much higher TTK, but it doesn’t really take much in the way of tracking. Characters are slow, and the only cases where they’re moving faster is either with abilities or a large jump, but it really isn’t too terribly hard to hit people barring maybe a really evasive Pharah at farther ranges. It’s still largely a “acquire target and burst damage them until they hide or get support” kind of game.
Sounds to me like you barely played the game. Abilities are constantly being used in every team fight, so saying characters are only hard to track while they’re casting abilities doesnt make a lot of sense to me.
Apex kind of works, but the tracking is no problem at a distance unless you were only fighting a really good Octane or Pathfinder (zipline,) and it’s really only negligible up close. Much more about your own movement getting to a spot or running after someone when they’re weak to finish,
Again, sounds like you’ve barely played the game. Apex at the high level has insane amounts of tracking at practically all ranges, from very far to very near.
it’s really only negligible up close.
Its hard to take you seriously if you say this kind of thing. Building fights with multiple floors have insane amounts of close range tracking. Their verticality combined with ziplines, legend abilities and movement mechanics require a degree of tracking just as demanding as anything you’ll find in Halo.
The first paragraph is just clarifying that you wanted to say ranged fights were uncommon/didn’t happen on those maps, and I wanted to tell you that wasn’t the case, and since Ranked uses the BR (which has very powerful magnetism) you wouldn’t noticeably have much of an accuracy change between close or long range.
For Overwatch, I’ve actually played a ton, a friend bought it for me because he wanted people to play with, I just haven’t played it in awhile. And you’re misreading it on the abilities thing, it means that the characters who get movement abilities are really only hard to track when they’re using them. Think D.Va’s mech lunge/glide, she’s nowhere near hard to hit unless she’s doing that. The characters without movement abilities aren’t hard to track in general unless they’re constantly ducking in and out of cover or have cover given to them like a Reinhardt shield.
No, I’ve also played quite a bit of Apex, not as much as Overwatch, but still a solid amount. There was never any major tracking going on, and you weren’t liable to be hit all too much when running in the open unless it was directly to the enemy and you weren’t strafing or using cover. Could be, like you said, the tracking is really only good at the high level, but then that’s not the game having tons of it, it’s just the really good players using it.
And for the close range stuff, I never really noticed much of it. Maybe if the other guy had the EVA shotgun or was good at hipfiring a gun then yeah, sure, but most of the time as soon as you got in close the other guy would run to heal, line up a shot preemptively in the other room, set an ability if they had one that worked that way, or try and get around you or into the open where you couldn’t use cover. Possible I was just extremely lucky/unlucky to not really have any fights where up close combat had a lot of back and forth nonstop tracking firing like Halo, but I just did not encounter much of it.
I wasn’t saying ranged engagements don’t happen, I was saying engagements at the range you were describing (ranges so extreme that you don’t recieve traditional controller benefits like aa or magentism) are few and far apart in 4v4 maps. Behemoth is the exception.
And you’re misreading it on the abilities thing, it means that the characters who get movement abilities are really only hard to track when they’re using them.
Yeah, and they’re using thise abilities every team fight. Good luck tracking a tracer in your back line with 3 dashes up, or an ekko, or genji with his abilities, or literally any champion being speed boosted by a lucio. Fast champions with small hitboxes, and these are just the ones off the top of my head.
There was never any major tracking going on, and you weren’t liable to be hit all too much when running in the open unless it was directly to the enemy and you weren’t strafing or using cover. Could be, like you said, the tracking is really only good at the high level, but then that’s not the game having tons of it, it’s just the really good players using it.
Let’s put the anecdotes aside. There’s no reason to believe that tracking isn’t a core aspect of the game, despite your own experience. 80% of the weapons in Apex are automatic weapons and, as such, their use requires tracking. Since day 1, with very few exceptions, automatic weapons have been meta in Apex.
this is all joke… game got so sweaty have to work so hard to avoid being shot and accurately landing shots, one wrong move and i get 3 burst shots broke my shield in a second, while controller players are having a picnic… tell me how is that suppose to help the causal gamer? this is just favoring consoles since they have the massive numbers execs droll on, nothing to do with balancing, its all financial decisions, they just try to massage it to sound better.
Its time to disable AA in all ranked games. Thats real esport
I play on M&K and I’m no pro, but I honestly thought that people were just cheating left and right with aimbots. Then I watched a replay and it’s always against controller players I just appear to be a total bullet magnet as their crosshairs just lock in and eviscerate me at the higher levels. The accuracy stats are also laughable for headshots, where non pro players in the platinum and diamond ranges are landing over 60%.
For me the solution is simple, crossplay turns AA off, or M&K players get AA also. The majority of players appear to be on controller, which I get as this has historically always been a console game, but M&K players will be leaving in droves if this isn’t addressed or rebalanced. I love this game, but I’m already nearing the stage where I’m looking at other games where I’m not competing with what amounts to a built in aimbot.
There is clearly an issue here, and I know that multiple people have said this already, but as a controller user I feel it necessary to say that aiming does not feel good/right. Aiming feels both too sensitive but also far too slow at the same time. Part of this is because they have made all reticle sizes tiny, and therefore the AA window is also tiny, but also the Red Reticle Range on most weapons is far too short, to the point that I feel like I am not getting any AA at the actual engagement ranges, and having zero AA on controller feels horrible.
The real problem here between controller and KB&M is very deep, and with that being the case I don’t know if there is even a fix that 343i implement. This game, like Halo 5, was designed as a competitive experience first, and casual experience second. The opposite of the Bungie Halo games. What this means it that there is a competitive edge built into every aspect of the game, and with that hard difficulty edge, one of the two control methods is going to always feel better than the other. The only real way to fix this issue would be to round out some of these design decisions, but that would fundamentally be changing the game.